Cancelling rules using borrowed points

[TXdeVille]

I understand the general cancellation rules in regards to greater than 31 days out, within 30 days, etc. But I need clarification on something.

If I make a reservation, let's say for next June, with borrowed points from a Sept 09 UY and later find out I need to cancel, will my points go back to my Sept 09 UY or will they stay in my 08 UY and I will have to bank them or use them?

Thanks

 

[kimberh]

The borrowed points stay in the UY that you borrowed them into. They are not returned to the 09 Uy.

 

[Chuck S]

They can not be banked back into the 09 use year. Banking and borrowing are final transactions

 

[disneynutz]

They can not be banked back into the 09 use year. Banking and borrowing are final transactions

That means use them or lose them.

 

[Noreendisfour]

This is very interesting to me because I made a reservation for a 2BR and a 1BR at OKW with the hopes of a grand villa wait list coming through. When I made the reservation I had to borrow a few extra points from the next UY.

I specifically asked what would happen to the extra points I needed to use for the 2BR and 1BR reservation if the grand villa wait list came through. I was told if the wait list came through, the extra points would be put back into the UY they came from.

It seems from the previous posts that this info given to me by MS is wrong?

 

[TXdeVille]

This is very interesting to me because I made a reservation for a 2BR and a 1BR at OKW with the hopes of a grand villa wait list coming through. When I made the reservation I had to borrow a few extra points from the next UY.

I specifically asked what would happen to the extra points I needed to use for the 2BR and 1BR reservation if the grand villa wait list came through. I was told if the wait list came through, the extra points would be put back into the UY they came from.

It seems from the previous posts that this info given to me by MS is wrong?

This is interesting......I would certainly like to know. I was going to ask if once the cancellation was done if I could bank the points but it seems that question was already answered by saying banking and borrowing are final transactions.

Where is Dean? Calling Mr. Dean??!!!???

 

[JimMIA]

This is very interesting to me because I made a reservation for a 2BR and a 1BR at OKW with the hopes of a grand villa wait list coming through. When I made the reservation I had to borrow a few extra points from the next UY.

I specifically asked what would happen to the extra points I needed to use for the 2BR and 1BR reservation if the grand villa wait list came through. I was told if the wait list came through, the extra points would be put back into the UY they came from.

It seems from the previous posts that this info given to me by MS is wrong?

You can NOT unborrow borrowed points. As Chuck said above, all banking and borrowing transactions are final. Especially with the new automatic fulfillment of waitlists, waitlisting with borrowed points carries some risk.

Also, DVC transactions can be fairly complicated, and if we don't phrase the questions very specifically, the MS folks can misunderstand the question and give incorrect answers. Sometimes they just don't know, but when you throw 1) making a ressie, 2) waitlisting, and 3) the prospect of canceling (with points from two separate sources with different rules pertaining to them) all into the same transaction, the more likely problem is a misunderstanding of your question leading them into the erroneous zone.

If you have to cancel, your current UY points will go back into your current UY. You can then bank them, provided you haven't passed the banking deadline prior to your cancellation. If you pass the banking deadline (remember, it's now 4 months prior to the end of your UY), they become "use or lose."

Any borrowed points from the cancellation would remain in the current UY, and would be "use or lose."

 

[disneynutz]

This is interesting......I would certainly like to know. I was going to ask if once the cancellation was done if I could bank the points but it seems that question was already answered by saying banking and borrowing are final transactions.

Where is Dean? Calling Mr. Dean??!!!???

This is from the DVC MS website:

What do I need to know about borrowing Vacation Points?

You may borrow Vacation Points only when confirming a reservation and can only borrow the number of Vacation Points needed to make that reservation.

If you have not completed travel on borrowed Vacation Points by the end of the Use Year they've been borrowed into, they will expire.

You cannot return borrowed Vacation Points to their original Use Year.

You cannot bank or transfer borrowed Vacation Points.

You may apply borrowed Vacation Points to all Member Getaways reservations.

All borrowing transactions are final.

In order to borrow Vacation Points, you must be current on your Annual Dues and monthly loan payments (if applicable), and cannot have any other overdue balances related to your Membership.

Borrowing may be suspended or limited from time to time in order to maintain a proper balance of Vacation Points in the Central Reservation System.

 

[Noreendisfour]

I've been a member since 2000 and this is the first time I came up against not having enough points in my current UY to fulfill the reservation I GOT while waitlisting the the reservation I WANT. Because I was not sure how that would play out, I felt I was very careful with my wording when making this reservation.

She practically repeated my question back to me when she answered that if the wait list came through, the borrowed points would be put back in the UY they came from.

Now mind you I am not saying that you are wrong, with everything I know about DVC, I agree with you. But one would think that MS would train their reps a lot better on this not very complicated question.

So for me, the extra 21 points it took will probably not be an issue at all as the grand villa wait list is a long shot.

 

[Chuck S]

I've been a member since 2000 and this is the first time I came up against not having enough points in my current UY to fulfill the reservation I GOT while waitlisting the the reservation I WANT. Because I was not sure how that would play out, I felt I was very careful with my wording when making this reservation.

She practically repeated my question back to me when she answered that if the wait list came through, the borrowed points would be put back in the UY they came from.

Now mind you I am not saying that you are wrong, with everything I know about DVC, I agree with you. But one would think that MS would train their reps a lot better on this not very complicated question.

So for me, the extra 21 points it took will probably not be an issue at all as the grand villa wait list is a long shot.

Even if the waitlist comes through, as long as it is within your banking window for your current points, you can use those borrowed points for that reservation, then bank the extra CURRENT 21 use year points to next year.

MS was correct, the points go back into the use year they came from. When you borrowed those points, they went into the current use year, then they were then used to make the reservation, hence they came from the current use year. They will be returned to the current use year, as that is where the came from to make the reservation.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

So for me, the extra 21 points it took will probably not be an issue at all as the grand villa wait list is a long shot.

You can accomplish almost the same thing if the waitlist comes through by using the borrowed points for the reservation and having MS return current UY points to you. You can then bank those points to your 09 UY as long as you do it before the banking deadline. Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[JimMIA]

Because I was not sure how that would play out, I felt I was very careful with my wording when making this reservation.

She practically repeated my question back to me when she answered that if the wait list came through, the borrowed points would be put back in the UY they came from.

Now mind you I am not saying that you are wrong, with everything I know about DVC, I agree with you. But one would think that MS would train their reps a lot better on this not very complicated question.

I think this illustrates the difference between precisely re-stating the rules (which the CM did correctly) and understanding the effect of the rules on your account. Unfortunately, it sounds like the CM correctly explained the rule without really answering your underlying question, which was, "How will this affect my account?"

I agree with you; the CM could have been more thorough.

 

[Noreendisfour]

The thing is I knew that the points would have to remain in the UY I just borrowed into, so that is why I was questioning her telling me the opposite.

I was being very specific with my line of questioning. And I am quite sure I didn't misunderstand her answer. It was apparent to me that she did not know the answer because she told me that the unused borrowed points would be placed back into the UY they were borrowed from. Not placed back into the UY they were just borrowed into.

I guess my point is mostly that MS is staffed by employees who may or may not know the answer to your questions. Which is why I have been coming here for more definitive answers.

And thanks for bringing up that I can always use the borrowed 21 points on my reservation and bank the (hopefully unused) 21 points from this UY.

 

[Noreendisfour]

Oh and sorry OP. I think I took over your post with my own problems. Sorry, sorry, sorry!

 

[TXdeVille]

Oh and sorry OP. I think I took over your post with my own problems. Sorry, sorry, sorry!

no problem. i have been learning.

 

[kgc07]

I have a question. Say you borrowed 20 points from your 2010 use year to make a reservation. A few months later you decide to do an add on making more 2009 points available. Will they use the new 2009 points and put the 2010 points back into the use year or would you just bank the add on 2009 points into the 2010 use year?

 

[StotheK]

I can't say for sure what will happen, but talk to your guide. Sometimes guides can pull some strings when making a sale. We added on to our contract which came with 2007 points. We were past the banking window and thought we'd end up losing them. He made a couple of calls and once we signed, those 2007 points were immediately banked. He also told us that if it weren't for the fact that we were in the middle of our stay when we added on, he would have been able to switch our reservation to the developer points that also came with the contract.

I have a question. Say you borrowed 20 points from your 2010 use year to make a reservation. A few months later you decide to do an add on making more 2009 points available. Will they use the new 2009 points and put the 2010 points back into the use year or would you just bank the add on 2009 points into the 2010 use year?

 

[Chuck S]

I have a question. Say you borrowed 20 points from your 2010 use year to make a reservation. A few months later you decide to do an add on making more 2009 points available. Will they use the new 2009 points and put the 2010 points back into the use year or would you just bank the add on 2009 points into the 2010 use year?

You would need to bank the 2009 points. Banking and borrowing are final transactions.

 

[bonnielynn]

They can not be banked back into the 09 use year. Banking and borrowing are final transactions

So if you bank from uy 07.. are they used first when booking in 2008... so that they are completely gone before you use uy08?

 

[disneynutz]

So if you bank from uy 07.. are they used first when booking in 2008... so that they are completely gone before you use uy08?

They should be but I have found out the hard way that the MS Advisor's don't always do it that way. I have been told that "the computer does it automatically", I try to verify with MS what they are doing as they are doing it. It seems that all is well, then I find out that the wrong points were applied. Two weeks ago I was told that MS would do a audit to try and fix our points that they have messed up. I haven't heard anything yet.