Can you negotiate college tuition?

[cabanafrau]

I can tell you none of my employers cared where I went to college just that I went. People who went to Ivy Leagues have no real jump on the rest of us as long as you are applying yourself in school and have a decent resume coming out you'll be fine. I only know of 3 people in my circle who went to an Ivy League and 2 of them are my future sister in laws. One is a doctor and the other is now a stay at home mom. I don't think the one who is a doctor really had any big difference from her base college education because most of the stuff she is doing came out of her med school studies and residency.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far, simply based on the network aspect of some fields and some companies. It may not even show itself at the start of a career, but I have known it to make all the difference climbing the ladder a few years later.

 

[Poohforyou]

I can tell you none of my employers cared where I went to college just that I went. People who went to Ivy Leagues have no real jump on the rest of us as long as you are applying yourself in school and have a decent resume coming out you'll be fine. I only know of 3 people in my circle who went to an Ivy League and 2 of them are my future sister in laws. One is a doctor and the other is now a stay at home mom. I don't think the one who is a doctor really had any big difference from her base college education because most of the stuff she is doing came out of her med school studies and residency.

That absolutely is not true. Those graduating from ivies or top schools like Stanford definitely have an upper hand. Just the networking among graduates opens doors for new graduates that those coming out of other schools don't have access to. You can't make a case based on three people.

 

[PlutoPony]

Schools with strong programs in particular fields tend to get more recruiters and from "better" companies than schools with weaker programs, that's just a fact of life. While that might not matter down the road, it can be a HUGE help in getting internships and that first job out of college. It doesn't mean you won't get a job if you don't go to a top school, but the opportunities may take more work to find or be more limited.

As for not knowing what you want to major in, that's definitely understandable for an 18 year old But at my son's school you are only allowed 3 changes in majors, once you are in your 3rd one that's the one you'll finish or move onto another universities. Don't know how prevalent that is but this is at a major state u. First semester freshman year, it sounded pretty common for kids to talk about switching majors, adding a 2nd major, or picking up a minor. It's all so new and exciting, and if you get a class you love that first semester that's often enough to get students interested in a change of direction.

 

[DopeyDame]

Thanks everyone! I spoke with the college's admissions counselor as well as the financial aid counselor. Both of them were very nice, but they were not willing to budge on the offer. They told me to apply for scholarships from various websites. They did, however, give me the option to change from early decision to regular decision. We may end up going that route and checking out other more affordable colleges in the area. My daughter is visiting a college about 3 hours from home this weekend, so we'll see how she likes that one. She really wanted to be in Florida though. This college has a great reputation, and I'd hate for her to pass on the chance.

Why in the world wouldn't you make that change? If she got in ED there's a good chance she'll get in regular anyway. She made a commitment when she chose to apply ED. Now she's not honoring that commitment, so taking on a small risk seems like a fair trade.

 

[wilkeliza]

That absolutely is not true. Those graduating from ivies or top schools like Stanford definitely have an upper hand. Just the networking among graduates opens doors for new graduates that those coming out of other schools don't have access to. You can't make a case based on three people.

Wasn't trying to make a base just off of 3 people but if you can't get into an Ivy or can't afford to go to a top school it isn't a death sentence to your career. If you go to an Ivy but make mediocre grades it isn't going to make a big difference. I still think in college a lot of it has to do with how you apply yourself while you are in school. You can do just as well coming out of a state school if you really hit the books and do everything you can to get the upper hand. In any case the amount of work you do will reflect more in how established you are out of school more then where you went exactly.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Personally, I tend to think that there is likely some value for a small subset of people in networking or being able to get better internships for those who go to "name" schools. However, I think that is GREATLY overstated and likely to affect only a very few people--especially if we area talking about undergrad work (since most fields where that sort of pull would be of big importance require further study these days anyway).

I think that myth of needing a name school to get the internship or network is perpetuated by the schools themselves, and by highschools and parents who want to brag about their students or children attending certain places and eventually by parents trying to justify the costs to themselves. It is sort of self serving after all.

Networking is important, no doubt, but it can be done through contacts at work, professional organizations, etc as well as through school.

I would guess that 90% of the time it doesn't matter at all and that the debt incurred by those who cannot afford it is a much bigger liability than any benefit that comes from hobnobbing with the right people or being at the school which sees more recruiters, etc.

 

[mnrose]

Wasn't trying to make a base just off of 3 people but if you can't get into an Ivy or can't afford to go to a top school it isn't a death sentence to your career. If you go to an Ivy but make mediocre grades it isn't going to make a big difference. I still think in college a lot of it has to do with how you apply yourself while you are in school. You can do just as well coming out of a state school if you really hit the books and do everything you can to get the upper hand. In any case the amount of work you do will reflect more in how established you are out of school more then where you went exactly.

True that. Better to be a big fish in a small pond than just another fish in the pond. The Ivy's are FULL of the best of the best of the best. Yet, they cannot all be at the top of their class in college. Most of them finish in the middle or lower. That is just a fact. Finishing at the top of a good public school will give you just as many opportunities as finishing in the middle of the pack at Harvard or Yale or Princeton, without all the debt. I am a lawyer, educated at 100% public institutions. Yet, I managed to get a job at the premier law firm in San Francisco, which I parlayed into a career at a major US corporate law department. I had a whole bunch of Ivy educated lawyers working for me. Just how it goes.

 

[zoemurr]

http://www.amazon.com/Where-You-Not-Who-Youll/dp/1455532703 This book looks interesting. Maybe we should read it as DDs letters start to come in. There was a study a while back about predicting success. Those that got in to prestigious colleges but did not go were just as successful as those that attended.

 

[littleblackegg]

I guess I'm old school, but I truly don't understand this 'early decision' stuff where people say they are 'required' to attend if accepted. Ummm, if the financial aid isn't good, a student clearly isn't going to attend. If you don't complete the enrollment forms or pay the fall semester tuition, then they won't let you attend, so how in the world can any school 'require' one to attend? It all just sounds silly to me!

They are not "required" to attend. ED is usually reserved for top tier universities which the student would be crazy NOT to attend, like the Ivies. By locking in your chosen school early, you have a place. If the aid package is a big part of the decision, early decision is not really a big part of the deal. My two nieces were going crazy over these tiny, expensive schools and "early decision, " when both sets of parents noticed the big state universities were a better value. Smaller, private universities want students to make a commitment as soon as possible.

 

[bcla]

True that. Better to be a big fish in a small pond than just another fish in the pond. The Ivy's are FULL of the best of the best of the best. Yet, they cannot all be at the top of their class in college. Most of them finish in the middle or lower. That is just a fact. Finishing at the top of a good public school will give you just as many opportunities as finishing in the middle of the pack at Harvard or Yale or Princeton, without all the debt. I am a lawyer, educated at 100% public institutions. Yet, I managed to get a job at the premier law firm in San Francisco, which I parlayed into a career at a major US corporate law department. I had a whole bunch of Ivy educated lawyers working for me. Just how it goes.

You are aware of the issue of grade inflation at many elite private universities, right? The following claims that the median grade at Harvard is an A-. Most Harvard graduates receive honors.

http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/12/failing-to-fail

Of course there are still the outliers. For a while (until 2001), UC Santa Cruz has something called "descriptive grading" where there was no actual letter grade but a description of how the student did. There was one kid who graduated at 11. Some of the professors claimed that they were pressured to let him pass because it might be bad publicity if he didn't graduate on time.

http://admissions.ucsc.edu/apply/parents-and-guardians/prospective-students/grading.html

I suppose one of the oddest things was a school (Stanford) that didn't have the F grade. I heard stories about students who decided that they didn't want to risk getting a D (which also wasn't a grade at one time) and then just tanked it because in that case the class wasn't recorded on a transcript.

http://news.stanford.edu/pr/94/940222Arc4438.html

In 1970, the senate substituted "no credit" for the "D" and "F" during a liberal trend that also produced substantial loosening of curricular requirements. As part of the grading overhaul, the faculty decided that a student's transcript should be a record of achievement - "A"s, "B"s and "C"s - instead of a record of all courses taken. The "D," however, was reinstated in 1975.

The 1970 changes grew out of the Study of Education at Stanford (SES). In its final report in 1969, the sub-group examining undergraduate education noted a significant upward shift in grades given to undergraduates and attributed this to the increasingly high caliber of students.

At the time, less than 4 percent of grades were "D" and even fewer were "F," SES said. Its members recommended encouraging progress toward a degree rather than fear of failure. Thus, "the sole penalty for failing to complete a course satisfactorily should be the loss of credit toward graduation," they said.
​

 

[Starwind]

She just wants the out of state experience....on/near a beach. It is a top rated college in a safe area. My other daughter is at Arizona State because she also wanted to be someplace warm and to spread her wings and fly so to speak. I know it is a ridiculous reason to attend a college, but both my girls have absolutely no idea what they want to do when they grow up. They just want to have a life enriching experience in a place that is new to them. We have always lived in a small suburban town. I don't blame them for wanting to see the world.

An option to consider:

While an undergrad in Texas I had a classmate who was actually a student at the University of Alaska. He came to our University for a year (his second or third year of university) as part of the National Student Exchange (NSE; website: http://www.nse.org/ ). He wanted somewhere warmer, and he wanted courses in one of the programs our school had (which at the time was unique in the world).

Going to a less expensive (or even in state) school with a suitable major that participates in NSE and then doing NSE for a year at a school near the beach might be a viable solution... Student gets an affordable education AND gets the fanciful "experience". Then, with the money saved, as one PP noted, the student can travel the world after they graduate

(there may also be other exchange programs available at a particular school; that university I attended participated in more than one, and also had bilateral exchange relationships with some universities). The Study Abroad webpage for a university is often a good place to start looking for info on such programs. Note there are both domestic and international exchange opportunities.

SW

 

[Starwind]

Problem being that in today's college stampede kids and parents are being told repeatedly the expectation is all about the "name". It's not acceptable or notable to be attending just any state or private school. I think it's partially to do with social media that college acceptance is only noteworthy if it has the appropriate pedigree or brand to splash around.

My employer did not care WHERE I went to university as long as it was accredited. The education requirement for the job was "X-level degree in suitable major (list of suitable majors)". It was scored as a "has" or "does not have"; what school, GPA, etc did not matter. If you didn't have the right degree and right major, you did not move on in the process. If you did, you moved on to the part where they score skills and knowledge. The top Z scorers from that section moved on to interviews, where none of the prior stages mattered/carried forward (in fact, the interview panel did not even see a copy of your resume).

The degree and majors essentially served as a screening tool.

Granted this is a large organization with a very structured hiring and promotion process (transparency and impartiality being very important), and YMMV with other organizations.

SW