Can Someone Please Explain Color Space?

[Gdad]

I have been having some issues lately I think may be attributable to my general lack of understanding to Color Space. Specifically, things I think look good on my screen look flat when printed.

Can someone explain in layman’s terms I can understand the differences for example- between AdobeRGB vs. sRGB?

Which is better for viewing online? Which is better for printing?

 

[Steve's Girl]

I have been having some issues lately I think may be attributable to my general lack of understanding to Color Space. Specifically, things I think look good on my screen look flat when printed.

Can someone explain in layman’s terms I can understand the differences for example- between AdobeRGB vs. sRGB?

Which is better for viewing online? Which is better for printing?

I am probably the most unqualified person to answer this. But I do remember awhile back that Mark had a pretty good explanation of this. I have Thom Hogan's e-book and he talks about it also. But I still don't get it. So hopefully, others can be more helpful to you.

I may be asking the obvious, but have you calibrated your monitor?

 

[Master Mason]

Gdad...

Mark wrote a full explination on this a few months ago.... was pretty clear and concisise

 

[Geoff_M]

Here's a nice tutorial from Rob Galbraith:

Defining color spaces

Okay, so color spaces are a Big Deal. But they're not exactly self-explanatory. Simply put, color spaces define boundaries within the visible color spectrum. Think of a color space as a perimeter fence: all colors inside the fence are represented in that color space; all colors outside are not. The area inside the fence is referred to as the color space's color gamut.

In the world of digital photography, the color spaces that matter most in building a quality-focused workflow are the ones employed in current cameras and in image editing programs like Photoshop. In each case, these color spaces have been defined to serve a particular purpose or meet a particular need. In other words, each color space's perimeter fence has not been erected in a random location. The three color spaces you'll want to know are:

•sRGB. Today, sRGB is as close as you'll come to a truly universal color space. SRGB was developed to match the color space of a typical computer monitor. Its use is widespread. It's the default color space of Windows XP, Web browsers, numerous image browsers, image editors and other software on the Windows platform. Perhaps most importantly in this discussion, it's also the color space tucked inside virtually all current digital cameras. In fact, if your camera doesn't include an option for choosing a color space, it's almost certainly nothing-but-sRGB under the hood. And if your camera includes color space options, sRGB is probably one of them.

• Adobe RGB. This color space is designed to encompass the colors that can be printed using CMYK inks. It includes a broader range of colors than sRGB within its boundaries. If your camera offers it, Adobe RGB is an excellent color space choice if your pictures are destined for the printed page, or both the printed page and the Web.

• ColorMatch RGB. Derived from an older Radius Pressview monitor, this color space is not an available option on any point-and-shoot or digital SLR camera, I'm aware of. But, it does serve as an excellent alternative to both sRGB and Adobe RGB—and Adobe RGB especially - for viewing pictures shot in these color spaces. Its color space is wider than sRGB, but not as broad as Adobe RGB, and it features a gamma of 1.8. All color spaces definitions include a gamma value, which in turn affects how bright a photo's midtones will appear in that color space. A gamma of 1.8—vs. 2.2 for sRGB and Adobe RGB - means that if you are looking at a photo that's too dark and murky in the midtones, switching to ColorMatch RGB can be a simple and effective way to brighten the photo. In addition, it can also help control runaway saturation in photos shot in Adobe RGB.
Read More...

 

[Disneyfreak92]

Is this the thread? I was interested in this too, so I went hunting and found this.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=18959682#post18959682

 

[Master Mason]

yep that was it... I thought it was a pretty good explination

 

[Gdad]

Thanks all for the links / Info- especially the Rob Galbraith definitions. I will take a look at Marks also- but I kind of Zoned out on the initial looksie- very in depth. And yes- monitor is calibrated.

 

[safetymom]

Are you using Photoshop? Just be sure when printing that when picking profiles in photoshop that you turn color management off on the printer side.

I hear lots of complaints from photographers that are using color management in Photoshop and the printer. You should have only one of them managing the color.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I will take a look at Marks also- but I kind of Zoned out on the initial looksie- very in depth.

I'll try to make my explanations a little more interesting in the future.

A real quick summary - Your camera records a bunch of numbers; one for red, one for blue, and one for green. Those are just numbers until they are part of a color space. The color space is what tells you what numbers mean what colors.

sRGB doesn't have a very wide range of colors. It's a reasonably close match to the colors that you can show on a typical computer monitor. ProPhoto RGB has a much wider range of colors. AdobeRGB is someplace in the middle.

 

[AndrewWG]

Ok, so what is the bottom line here then? Is it better to shoot in AdobeRGB or sRGB? I can shoot in one or the other with the 30D. What will give the best results? I imagine they both have their pros and cons or I don't think the camera would give me the choice. Am I wrong about this?

Andy

 

[Anewman]

Ok, so what is the bottom line here then? Is it better to shoot in AdobeRGB or sRGB? I can shoot in one or the other with the 30D. What will give the best results? I imagine they both have their pros and cons or I don't think the camera would give me the choice. Am I wrong about this?

Andy

If you are shooting RAW it does not matter, you can select the color space during the conversion process.

If forced to point out pros and cons...

SRGB
Pro= it is pretty much the WEB standard so there is no conversion needed to display online, and many photo labs also require Srgb.

Con= palette is smallest of the three.

AdobeRGB and ProPhoto RGB
Pro= they offer larger palettes.

Con= may require conversion for Web display and printing.

 

[WeLoveNemo]

This was really interesting, as was the link mentioned above. I, too, am disappointed when I get my prints back. They are almost too vivid, if that makes any sense, compared to what I had on the monitor. I prefer a bit softer color. I use a photolab (KodakGallery) for prints. What is the general consensus for this type of printing AdobeRGB or sRGB? Thanks!

 

[Anewman]

This was really interesting, as was the link mentioned above. I, too, am disappointed when I get my prints back. They are almost too vivid, if that makes any sense, compared to what I had on the monitor.

Many times Color space is not really the issue when prints do not match the screen. I think more often it is about getting ones monitor calibrated, and then profiles can come into play. You also throw everything out the window if the lab in question applies any auto corrections...

For wysiwyg printing you need the following.
Proper calibration(and software that takes advantage of it)
Correct profiles(embed or proof)
Sending image in needed color space.
Lab that does not apply any kind of auto corrections(color, contrast, etc...).

This is not to say they are needed by everyone or that you cant get pretty close without them, but anyone of them can really throw the print off under some conditions.

 

[AndrewWG]

If you are shooting RAW it does not matter, you can select the color space during the conversion process.

If forced to point out pros and cons...

SRGB
Pro= it is pretty much the WEB standard so there is no conversion needed to display online, and many photo labs also require Srgb.

Con= palette is smallest of the three.

AdobeRGB and ProPhoto RGB
Pro= they offer larger palettes.

Con= may require conversion for Web display and printing.

Thanks! I guess I will stick with sRGB and continue to shoot JPG+RAW. Then I can do what I want I guess? If I read that correctly.

Andy

 

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Many times Color space is not really the issue when prints do not match the screen. I think more often it is about getting ones monitor calibrated, and then profiles can come into play. You also throw everything out the window if the lab in question applies any auto corrections...

For wysiwyg printing you need the following.
Proper calibration(and software that takes advantage of it)
Correct profiles(embed or proof)
Sending image in needed color space.
Lab that does not apply any kind of auto corrections(color, contrast, etc...).

This is not to say they are needed by everyone or that you cant get pretty close without them, but anyone of them can really throw the print off under some conditions.

So what software do you all recommend for proper calibration of your monitor?

 

[Gdad]

I use Color Vision

So what software do you all recommend for proper calibration of your monitor?

 

[MarkBarbieri]

So what software do you all recommend for proper calibration of your monitor?

Calibration requires both hardware and software. I use the Monaco Optix.

Just for fun, here is the same flower saved with three different color spaces (sRGB, AdobeRGB, and ProPhotoRGB). If you are using a modern JPG viewer on a modern OS, it will translate them to your display's color space and they will all look the same. If you are using an old JPG viewer (like earlier versions of Internet Explorer), it will ignore the color space and they will look different.