Can someone explain the US school system to me?

[Marseeya]

Homeschoolers typically do so because of religious reasons and sometimes because of less than adequate public. Or downright fear of how public school can change your children and expose them to WAY more than children should be exposed to .

Homeschoolers pay for their own books, etc. Sometimes, homeschoolers in the same area will get together and share the teaching responsibility. This is also very helpful in making sure the kids socialize with other kids. Generally speaking, homeschoolers are Christian Conservatives. But the demographics run the gamut. But far left Liberals tend to be much less numerous in the homeschool field.

Where I live, the school district is required to supply all the textbooks for the students. PA has among the strictest homeschooling requirements, which is what prevented me from doing a pure homeschool -- I didn't want the state looking over my shoulder all the time. I chose a charter cyberschool route, which meant that the public school district paid for the tuition and I kept my son home while he did an online curriculum.

 

[Nite0wl71]

The breakdown in our public schools is K-8, 9-12 some schools are K-6, 7-8, 9-12.

Here high school is always 4 years, 9th grade is a freshman, 10 is sophomore, 11 is junior and 12 is senior.

If there is a 7-8 it is called junior high.

The average walk for a grade school is no more than 5 blocks, and then 5 grade schools feed into 1 high school. Our kids have an automatic high school in their neighborhood or they can apply to any high school in the city. It is just like applying for college.

We also have grade schools that you can apply to go to. Then the child is bussed from the grade school in their district.

 

[cheyita]

I've seen some school districts where elementary is K-3, middle school is 4-6, junior high is 7&8, high school is 9-12.

Our Catholic school is K-8, but 6-8 runs like a typical junior high with switches classes, etc.

 

[poohandwendy]

Ours is Elem K-4, Middle 5-8 ad HS 9-12

 

[Sian]

Thank you very much for your detailed replies. I think I am beginning to get it! Your system seems much more flexible than ours where everything hangs on two sets of tests (plus some course work). We also has the disadvantage that as final results only become available during the summer break there is no real 'celebration' at the end of the year as students don't know whether they have done well, got into college, or failed miserably. There is no real closure to the school experience as students drift away as they finish their exams.
One more question - what happens to kids who really struggle and can't progress? Do you end up with 10 year olds in 1st grade with the tinies because they can't master reading?

 

[poohandwendy]

Thank you very much for your detailed replies. I think I am beginning to get it! Your system seems much more flexible than ours where everything hangs on two sets of tests (plus some course work). We also has the disadvantage that as final results only become available during the summer break there is no real 'celebration' at the end of the year as students don't know whether they have done well, got into college, or failed miserably. There is no real closure to the school experience as students drift away as they finish their exams.

Are they really hanging in suspense though? Are the tests based on material they don't know? Is it common for someone who did well for all of the years to fail?

 

[Sian]

Are they really hanging in suspense though? Are the tests based on material they don't know? Is it common for someone who did well for all of the years to fail?

Not fail exactly, but they are hanging in suspense. For example, my DD sat papers in Math, History and English. Her predicted grades according to her teachers are A,B,C (bearing in mind that grades here work differently and 'straight A students' are very rare) The college that has accepted her wants B,B,B (and won't take an A as making up for a C), her 'reserve' college wants B,B,C (this is to do American Studies by the way) Her English result could go either way - if she pulls it up to a B she gets her first choice college, if she gets the predicted C she gets her second choice, if she drops to a D she doesn't get anywhere. About 1 in 5 students I would guess come out with worse than expected grades just because the exams can take unexpected turns. Syllabuses cover a lot of material and you could be unlucky and only be offered essay titles that cover subjects you have not studied in great depth, or you could simply mess up on the day, misunderstand the question or whatever. The 20% or so who don't get what they need either give up (not very common), wait a year and apply again for different colleges (not very common), or go into a system that matches disappointed students with empty college places (very common). These kids get to go to college but usually not to do the course they wanted or in a less prestigious college. It does mean that students (and parents) cannot be sure if, or where, they are going to college until about 4 weeks before college starts. All very nerve racking.

 

[poohandwendy]

Oh, Now I see what you mean. Actually, our colleges take a few things into consideration, HS grades, class ranking, SAT/ACT scores (I guess similar to the exams you are talking about), sometimes an interview and/or essay are expected and reviewed as part of acceptance. They also look at specific classes the student completed (like honors and college prep classes) and foreign languages. Of course there are easy colleges/universitiess to get into and really tough ones too. So, generally it is a cumulative scoring of the student that is used for college entrance. But, that is only for getting into colleges. To actually graduate HS, you have set requirements that all students are expected to meet.

I am not sure about your universities, do you pay for them or are they a part of your public school system (tax dollars)? We really do not have any secondary education that is public (as in, tax dollars pay for the education entirely, residency being the only requirement). We do have state colleges that subsidize part of the tuition fees for students from that state, but it is usually only 1/2. Other than that, you would need grants, scholarships, loans or just plain old cash to go to them.

 

[N.Bailey]

One more question - what happens to kids who really struggle and can't progress? Do you end up with 10 year olds in 1st grade with the tinies because they can't master reading?

I think I'm pretty qualified to answer this question. I'll use my own experience as the example because it probably varies a lot by state and I don't know the laws in all 50 states.

My son was held back in his 1st year of kindergarten. I don't think most schools would simply hold a student back today at such a young age without the parent agreeing (we agreed btw). In kindergarten, there really isn't much testing (if any), so it's not like your child failed per say, it's mostly just that they're not on level with the other students. Does that make sense?

Anyway, when my son was in 1st grade, that teacher wanted to have him tested. To that point, we all knew he was below the other kids. For me, I didn't know what to do at home. I was trying to work with him, but he just wasn't getting it. I think at school some of the teachers thought I wasn't doing anything at home. Of course, that might have been my imagination too. LOL In 1st grade however I knew his teacher and she knew I was trying. He was tested (state IEP testing) and my son was diagnosed with a learning disability.

At that time, different things in school have been adapted for him. He's in a special reading class, has taken speech classes (I always thought these were a waste of time because he's never had a speech problem) etc... In those earlier years, he need extra help for math, social studies, science etc simply because of all the reading. His disability is in reading/writing, but he's always been with the regular classes (with extra help for testing and such due to the reading) for all the other subjects. In the early years, he was only given half a year of science and the other half the year of social studies to pick up extra reading classes. He'd also be pulled out of some classes from time to time to get extra help with reading. Sometimes he'd use some of the great programs on the computer. In our case, the school tried a variety of programs/tactics and courses to determine what worked best for my son. When they found out what worked, they emphasized those programs.

My son is going into 8th grade this year and while he's still behind about 3 years in reading, he continues to make progress each year and everyone I have ever talked to believes that my son will overcome this disability. He is now in all regular classes (except reading), and he even got a 99% (averaged 4 marking periods, mid term, and final grade, with NO help at all) for his final math grade last year. Of course math has always been his strength.

I don't think I'm the exception in public schools anymore. The schools work so closely to help all students overcome whatever their problem. Keep in mind however, if your child is like mine, your child is going to need a lot of help from home in most cases. The schools can't do it alone. There have been many a night where homework has taken us 5 or 6 hours.

 

[Disney Debbie]

We really do not have any secondary education that is public

Completely beside the point - but isn't high school "secondary" education? And college "post-secondary" education??

One more question - what happens to kids who really struggle and can't progress? Do you end up with 10 year olds in 1st grade with the tinies because they can't master reading?

No - they're put in some sort of special education - it might be a completely different special ed curriculum or they may just get extra resources to helping them with reading or math - whatever their problem is. I know some kids are help back - but I don't think they'd be held back more then once or twice - especially if it's a kid that is trying but just can't get it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

poohandwendy---high school is secondary .

Here grade = your year.

Pretty much people are here until they graduate 12th grade. There really is no "opting out" and a predetermined age. (ETA: typically those who drop out--don't care about their education--but it is very difficult to do anything in the job world if you are a drop out. Some will get their GED equivilant and test out--but it is not a decision to be made lightly).

Factor in--for those who just aren't meeting the requirements of their grade--they may be socially promoted (so they can stay with their age group), held back to repeat, or promoted b/c they passed...but offered remedial course work that is intended to bring them up to speed. (ETA: Those with disabilities that make it difficult for them to get even a basic diploma are placed in special education---and will stay there until senior year. Though we had a story recently--I forget where...they didn't want to give a young man Down's syndrome a diploma. I forget the reason. But those faced with challenges are given opportunity to become as educated as possible).

Aditionally--the SAT is a test for college...but it is only on verbal (general vocabulary definitions and relationships via straight questions, passages, word relations) and math (which will have all your high school level math--algebra and geometry and maybe some trigonometry--but I really don't remember). They have added a writing portion so that the writing skills can be tested.

Aside from that there are no other tests. I know that the college I graduated from instituted an SAT II--which is subject area tests so that they know if you are qualified to take the classes you are requestions. Since this started after I left, I am not certain the specific parts of that test.

In Florida--students who do well academically in school (B-average, minimum SAT score, and a set number of volunteer hours) will have their entire college tuition paid via scholarship. They will have to meet minimum academic requirements in school (years ago it was a 3.2 GPA which is a slightly above a B average--not sure now). So essentially, in Florida, you can have your higher education paid for. Leaving only books and housing.

To graduate high schools--there are several different types of diplomas--varies from state to state but does allow all students the opportunity to graduate. There is a basic one--you attend school--4 years of high school...you met minimum requirements to graduate...but did not meet requirements to attend college..but you can still graduate. The second is a college prepatory diploma--you take a minimum course load as required to be deemed prepared for college...which has 4 years of English, 3 years of math, 2 years foreign language--so many years of science....et cetera (this is in Florida). You can get into a university with this type of diploma. Beyond that is an Honors diploma--just means you scored really well in your classes. There is also the IB (International Bacculaureate) program. Very very intense studies....It is like a super-diploma.

The better your academics in school--the better you have in getting to your college/university of choice as well as the better opportunity to compete for scholarships. So the higher high school diploma you get with the best grades--the better off you are.

 

[stm61]

when the kids start school here depends on where they live. Some states have a cut off birthday date for the entire state (everybody who's birthday is before 9/1 starts this yr), others leave it up the the individual districts (we live in the same state and my district's cut off is 10/1 and my mom's is 12/31). This means that kids with later birthday's could graduate at 17 and kids who missed the cutoff will be almost 19.

Also, your family's ability to pay for college usually determines where you go. Unless you're lucky enough to have a scholarship, or your family is very low income and you receive grants to cover the costs, you can only attend where you can affford to go. Doesn't matter if your kid is accepted to the best school in the country, if he can't pay, he ain't going.

 

[bicker]

Aditionally--the SAT is a test for college...but it is only on verbal ... and math .... They have added a writing portion so that the writing skills can be tested. Aside from that there are no other tests.

When I went to college, there were additional tests, called ACH exams. Only certain universities asked prospective students to take them, and none required the tests. They tended to give students who took them (and did well) an advantage over students who didn't take them. I remember taking a Chemistry ACH and an Earth Science ACH, and I know there were ACH exams in History and foreign languages.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

When I went to college, there were additional tests, called ACH exams. Only certain universities asked prospective students to take them, and none required the tests. They tended to give students who took them (and did well) an advantage over students who didn't take them. I remember taking a Chemistry ACH and an Earth Science ACH, and I know there were ACH exams in History and foreign languages.

You know--something like that rings a bell. They just changed the format and called it the SAT II. But come to think of it--I remember taking something when I went for "Preview" which is a 48 hour orientation that students go to. I think I did it with just classes I was interested in--so I had a math one--but not a science b/c I chose not to do a hard core science--stuck with the basic stuff.

I really didn't remember that though--so thanks for bringing that up!

I do know that these are things once you are already committed to going to the college...not done in anticipation of applying to college--which kind of is where I was going with the SAT being subject non-specific except for the 2, now 3 areas it tests.

 

[bicker]

Okay, then they're definitely different than the ACH's which were used to help qualify students prior to acceptance to a college.

 

[poohandwendy]

Completely beside the point - but isn't high school "secondary" education? And college "post-secondary" education??

LOL...oops, sorry about that, I meant post-secondary! Duh! I should have proofread my post...caught with my public skooling showing...

 

[poohandwendy]

To graduate high schools--there are several different types of diplomas--varies from state to state but does allow all students the opportunity to graduate. There is a basic one--you attend school--4 years of high school...you met minimum requirements to graduate...but did not meet requirements to attend college..but you can still graduate. The second is a college prepatory diploma--you take a minimum course load as required to be deemed prepared for college...which has 4 years of English, 3 years of math, 2 years foreign language--so many years of science....et cetera (this is in Florida). You can get into a university with this type of diploma. Beyond that is an Honors diploma--just means you scored really well in your classes. There is also the IB (International Bacculaureate) program. Very very intense studies....It is like a super-diploma.

Wow, I have never heard of a general diploma that meant you graduated but could not get into college.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow, I have never heard of a general diploma that meant you graduated but could not get into college.

I remember--3 highschools, 3 different states...and my mother always verifying that I was indeed getting credits for a "college prep" diploma.

It doesn't mean that you can't go to college. Those that just get a basic diploma--can go to a community college to get more credits and then go to a university. But if you hope to go to college--you need to have a college prepartory diploma.

Does that make sense?

Now i'm going to go look it up to make sure.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Okay--for example---college prep (3 credits math--Algebra I and higher) or career prep (3 credits math--one must be Algebra I or higher--the others can be any math--no foreing langauage and vocational coursework required).
That is in Florida. I got this off the Broward county site---could not find the actual state listing--but I believe that is state standard.

 

[Sian]

UK post-secondary education: when I went to university in the halcyon days of the 1970s all tuition was paid by the state whichever uni you went to. On top of that was a generous grant that provided sufficient funds to pay for accommodation, food, books, and socialising that was paid on a sliding scale according to parental income from full to about 20%. For those from low income families, higher education was free and heavily subsidised for most others. Consequently very few students had part time jobs and we basically lived a very nice life. The living expenses grant was discontinued some years ago and then tuition fees were introduced at a fixed rate of around $2000 for all universities. From 2007 universities are free to charge whatever fees they like so the days of any student being able to attend the best universities may soon be over. Students now finance their studies by cheap student loans, part time work, and parental support. My DD1 has massive debts and works late nights waitressing (and we are lucky in that my low income means that her tuition fees are paid by the state.) Things have certainly changed here.