Cafeteria Catholics?

The thing with NFP is that people are involved - humans make mistakes. NFP takes work - you actually have to do something besides take a pill or put on something. You have to have a little self-control too. People who do not follow it or give in to their desires during a few days will have problems with NFP.

If used properly (and to be honest - it is always much easier to blame someone or something else than yourself) it is effective.
 
sodaseller said:
Don't be so sure about that

I guess the books and lists containing all the women that have been validly ordained into the Catholic Church is somewhere in a "hidden vault" located inside the Vatican? Or better yet inside a safety deposit box inside the Vatican Bank?

Well, anyway - like I said before the issue is moot in regards to the ordination of women.

Excerpted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women
[edit] Roman Catholic Church

[edit] Doctrinal Position
The official position of the Roman Catholic Church, as expressed in the current canon law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is that: “Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination.”[1] Insofar as priestly and episcopal ordination are concerned, the Church teaches that this requirement is a matter of divine law, and thus doctrinal.[2] The requirement that only males can receive ordination to the permanent diaconate has not yet been promulgated as doctrinal by the Church's magisterium.[3][4] In asserting this position, the Church cites her own doctrinal tradition, and scriptural texts.[5] In recent years, responding to questions about the matter, the Church has issued a number of documents repeating the same position.[6] In 1994, Pope John Paul II definitively declared the question closed in his letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, stating: “Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance…I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.”[7]

In 1995, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a clarification explaining that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, though "itself not infallible, witnesses to the infallibility of the teaching of a doctrine already possessed by the Church.... This doctrine belongs to the deposit of the faith of the Church. It should be emphasized that the definitive and infallible nature of this teaching of the Church did not arise with the publication of the Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis."[8] Instead, it was "founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium," and for these reasons it "requires definitive assent."[9]

The Church teaching on the ordination of only men holds that maleness was integral to the personhood of both Jesus and the men he called as apostles.[10] The Roman Catholic Church sees maleness and femaleness as two different ways of expressing common humanity.[11] Contrary to the common phrase "gender roles", which implies that the phenomenon of the sexes is a mere surface phenomenon, an accident, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that there is an ontological (essential) difference between humanity expressed as male humanity and humanity expressed as female humanity.[12] While many functions are interchangeable between men and women, some are not, because maleness and femaleness are not interchangeable. Just as water is necessary for a valid baptism, and wheaten bread and grape wine are necessary for a valid Eucharist (not because of their superiority over other materials, but because they are what Jesus used or authorized), only men can be validly ordained, regardless of any issues of equality.[13]

Pope John Paul II, in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, explained the Roman Catholic understanding that the priesthood is a special role specially set out by Jesus when he chose twelve men out of his group of male and female followers. John Paul notes that Jesus chose the Twelve (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70) after a night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12) and that the Apostles themselves were careful in the choice of their successors. The priesthood is “specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (cf. Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16; 16:14-15).”
 
Marie17 said:
This would go over good with all the people - another reason for people to portray the Catholic Church as evil. I can hear it now - the Catholic Church is now going to make money off of gifts that were given by parishioners. That will go over well.
Hallo ....."Ringfenced for poverty relief"...how would that play?

ford family
 

What's the world's population? Somewhere between 6-7 billion people. Gotta look that up for verification.

Okay - let's say the art collection is sold for 12 billion. We should also throw in some real estate too for another 12 billion.

We've come up with 24 billion now - to give to 6-7 billion people. I just can't wait to receive my refund of $4.00.

Now who comes up with all the rules to define poor? A lot of people in America wouldn't get theirs - Americans are pretty rich defined by worldly standards. Okay let's say only 2 billion people get the money from the auction - $12.00. I guess I don't realize the value of that $12.00 to get all those people out of poverty FOREVER.
 
mickeyfan2 said:
Here is the first one in Canada.

http://www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bin/na.cgi?nationalupdates/050721former

The women's status as priests will not be recognized by the hierarchy of the Vatican, according to Virginia Lafond, member of Catholic Network for Women's Equality (CNWE).

"Pope John Paul II declared in May 1994 that the church has no power to ordain women," Lafond told CC.com
Here is on in AL:
http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2005-06-0617-001.shtml

American Catholic Church in the US

From wikipedia:

The American Catholic Church in the United States is a Christian denomination that largely follows the practices of the Roman Catholic Church, but is not in communion with it.Here we have a married female in AR:

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?archive=true&article=34145&paper=62&cat=111

Yet as a generic Catholic faith community, One spirit differs significantly.
It shares a common Catholic theology and liturgical tradition, but veers away from many of the disciplines and rules governing the Roman rite of the Catholic Church.


I know there is one in the Philly area too. I will look for a link.
Here it is:
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?discussionID=527609

From that article:
The Church of the Beatitudes is not a Roman Catholic Church, but they respect DiFranco and consider her a priest.

Nope - won't do. I guess that list is still hidden in the vault somewhere. The Catholic Church - not a pseudo catholic church who throws the word around doesn't ordain women into the priesthood. People can try but that is not "valid" and it won't be in communion with the Catholic Church.


-- By the way as you can tell - I have a really hard time doing the "quotes" right. I hope you can tell that the new blurbs added in were from the mentioned articles.
 
ford family said:
Hallo ....."Ringfenced for poverty relief"...how would that play?

ford family

Okay - I am a talented artist and I donate stained glass to the church. They turn around and sell it for the poor.

Didn't Judas ask this question of Jesus? Why does Mary waste that perfume on you when we could sell it and give to the poor ... Jesus replied. Remember what he said?
 
mickeyfan2 said:

None are valid - all are either a Christian faith other than Catholic or a pseudo Catholic faith that prominately promotes the word Catholic in their religion but are not.
 
ford family said:
Hallo ....."Ringfenced for poverty relief"...how would that play?

ford family

When the Vatican collection went to Louisiana for the World's Fair in 1984 - plenty of people complained that the Catholic Church was charging admission to go see the collection of artwork. Artwork that had been donated or commissioned by the church.

People will always see a way to complain about the Catholic Church.
 
Marie17 said:
People will always see a way to complain about the Catholic Church.

We can definately agree on this point. :rotfl:

I complain about my family all the time too. I still love them. :)
 
I complain about my family all the time too. I still love them.

I can complain about my family, but you can't! And I wouldn't dream about complaining about someone else's family. That would be rude.
That's how I feel when non-Catholics or non-practicing Catholics start bashing the Church. It's like someone else outside of my family is bashing them.
 
Fitswimmer said:
I can complain about my family, but you can't! And I wouldn't dream about complaining about someone else's family. That would be rude.
That's how I feel when non-Catholics or non-practicing Catholics start bashing the Church. It's like someone else outside of my family is bashing them.

I'm Catholic and practising. :confused3
 
Marie17 said:
What's the world's population? Somewhere between 6-7 billion people. Gotta look that up for verification.

Okay - let's say the art collection is sold for 12 billion. We should also throw in some real estate too for another 12 billion.

We've come up with 24 billion now - to give to 6-7 billion people. I just can't wait to receive my refund of $4.00.

Now who comes up with all the rules to define poor? A lot of people in America wouldn't get theirs - Americans are pretty rich defined by worldly standards. Okay let's say only 2 billion people get the money from the auction - $12.00. I guess I don't realize the value of that $12.00 to get all those people out of poverty FOREVER.
We are now way off topic but I must just say that your negativity is overwhelming. You are saying that $24 billion will make such a small difference to the fight against poverty that its simply not worth even starting down that road. You don't want to try and capitalise on the church's art treasures by exhibiting them to an eager public because someone complained 22 years ago and someone else might moan about it. If that is the general level of positive thinking in the Catholic Church then I'm not surprised there are no women priests.
Is Eeyore a Catholic?

ford family
 
I'm Catholic and practising.

Then I guess I wasn't talking about you then, was I? I understand that it is difficult to differentiate btw "you" singular and "you" plural, that's why I added the caveat about non-Catholics and Non-practicing Catholics. The complaints about the Church that I get are always from those who have never been Catholic or were Catholic and chose to leave because of their dislike for the Church.
 
ford family said:
We are now way off topic but I must just say that your negativity is overwhelming. You are saying that $24 billion will make such a small difference to the fight against poverty that its simply not worth even starting down that road. You don't want to try and capitalise on the church's art treasures by exhibiting them to an eager public because someone complained 22 years ago and someone else might moan about it. If that is the general level of positive thinking in the Catholic Church then I'm not surprised there are no women priests.
Is Eeyore a Catholic?

ford family

No way - it would make a difference but I don't believe it would eliminate poverty which it seems that was the major point of all the sell off the art and get rid of the poverty focus that was here for a little while. The Catholic Church is one of the biggest charities in the world that does tremendous amounts of giving - not just money but time and people.

People will complain no matter what. People complain if they charge money for an exhibit, people complain if they don't sell off the art, people complain they don't have women priests, people complain ...

And I know we are all supposed to always be positive thinking but I think when some on this board have a different agenda of spouting off what the Catholic Church teaches as something it really doesn't - then it is my responsibility to at least try to get the truth out there. If someone wants to read it and just dismiss it, fine. You should know your faith if it something you practice and you should always be willing to defend it.
 
ford family, your source for some of your information is an excerpt from a self-help book entitled "Be Your Own Therapist"? An you found this on an Internet psychology website? If those kinds of sources are what you consider "Gospel" (pun slightly intended) or even credible, then I am pretty sure further conversation is pointless.

In any event, continue to think what you wish about the Catholic Church and research your credible sources on the Internet and I'll continue to practice my faith.
 
Fitswimmer said:
Then I guess I wasn't talking about you then, was I?

And how would I know that since you used MY quote? When I quote I am speaking to that person.

To get back to the selling off the art thing. I was the person that started that and I never said sell it ALL of and that it would wipe out poverty. What I believe I said was even if they sold a 10th of what they own it would be a hugh HELP. Maybe someone after me said it would wipe out poverty but it don't think so.

With that I think I'm done. I'm obviously not a good enough Catholic for you guys since I have a differing opinion. :rotfl:
 
Fitswimmer said:
I can complain about my family, but you can't! And I wouldn't dream about complaining about someone else's family. That would be rude.
That's how I feel when non-Catholics or non-practicing Catholics start bashing the Church. It's like someone else outside of my family is bashing them.

I posted way back in the beginning of this thread and don't feel like I have "bashed" the religion. I simply gave my reasons for leaving the denomination and moving on. I understand your concern about non members voicing negative opinions about your religion but then again when a topic like this gets posted on a public thread you have to expect some to disagree with you. I mean Christians in general get bashed around here a lot.
 
Disney Doll said:
ford family, your source for some of your information is an excerpt from a self-help book entitled "Be Your Own Therapist"? An you found this on an Internet psychology website? If those kinds of sources are what you consider "Gospel" (pun slightly intended) or even credible, then I am pretty sure further conversation is pointless.

In any event, continue to think what you wish about the Catholic Church and research your credible sources on the Internet and I'll continue to practice my faith.
The important part was the message, not the source but then the Roman Catholic Church has always put form over substance, appearance over content.

This thread is grinding to its inevitable impasse but at least it has rewarded me with a tremendous mental picture of the Pope running toward a cliff. People are shouting at him to stop but he has got his hands firmly over his ears, his eyes are shut tight and he is singing "Lalalala..I can't hear you...lalalala" Great image.

ford family
 


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