BWV - what am I missing?

[DVC BLT]

I thought we would love BWV based on the commentary on this board, but recently stayed there and was shocked at how worn the place is. Obviously, pictures do not show it enough, and people who have owned there for years understandably see the yesteryears beauty from their memories with their families and reliving that is priceless...i have these places in the world myself, so I get it. But if you do not have those memories carrying you through the condition of the place, I think its a hard sell.

It feels like a very old hotel that was painted over a number of times. These rooms are used almost every night, year after year, so for me, we decided to go with a newer building (even if those rooms will be used in the same way) in order to enjoy the much new construction over the coming decades. The bathrooms needed full gutting, the sink / toilet / shower area is really below grade for the amount your going to pay per night. Its something you would see at ~$200 per night hotel in any major city. The kitchen is of very old style and function, including the cabinets, sink, appliances, etc. When we travel, we prefer to stay in accommodations at or above how we live at home.

Unfortunately, the best property locations have been taken in the epcot area, so the skyliner is somewhat of a non-bus & non-boat solution. If you are a hard core only sleep in the room type person, and prefer to hit parks at rope drop everyday, then maybe the condition of the room / resort is not important and proximity / walking is everything. But your giving up a-lot of hours of "room & resort time" in exchange for the time it takes to walk vs skyliner, which in our experience, really was not much. By happen chance, my wife was walking from BWV to international gateway, and I left primo piatto and we got there within 5 mins of each other (obviously I could have gotten caught in a skyliner malfunction where there is no such risk walking), but is this really a 1-10 chance?

In the end, I dont think the resale restrictions on a newer resort will cause the resale price to be below what a legacy resort contract will sell for in a few years from now because those resale contracts will be restricted themselves from all the newer resorts, and the number of years left on that contract will mean only a short term buyer will be interested, and they will demand a good price because you dont have the long term risk of resort room price increases to leverage a high asking price on.

I realize everyone enjoys different living conditions and values things differently, BWV and BCV certainly have a place to play, but for us, and at today's prices and years left on contract, its a very pricey investment for the condition of the place.

PS - Take the venom you read on this board with a grain of salt, no doubt some are trying to spew as much negativity as possible at RIV in order to turn enough heads away that maybe disney will change their restiction plan. But honestly, there is no chance they change. They are not going to let a resale buyer at Saratoga stay at all the future luxury DVC resorts they plan to build in the future, and I get it, if I owned the business I would do the same. It hurts as a customer, but, sometimes you just need to move on. You dont want to regret passing on RIV at this price level, if history is any guide, this thing will be 250 a point 2 years from now.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I see two things that you might experience in the near future: 5 people in a studio is impossible IHO...you don't say how old your kids are, but imagine what it will be like in 2, 5 or 10 years - honestly I would consider trying to budget for a bigger villa even if you have to save a bit longer to get it. Secondly, though we enjoy BWV for the access to Epcot, especially during F & W, will your kids get bored as the pool area is small? I'd consider BRV, resale is a bargain and it is a gorgeous resort, great for kids and a quick, relaxing boat ride to MK, Wilderness Campground (great play area) and the monorail which gives you more of a seamless experience trying to get around...just a few thoughts.

 

[Nicola2n]

They are the zombies in The Walking Dead

But in terms of DVC they are people that make a reservation for a time that is earlier than they actually want it. They then move the reservation forward every few days as as a new booking window opens up. This can be done at the 11 month mark to secure an in demand room ahead of time, as the room being "walked" is blocked from being booked by anyone else. The walker has control over it.

Simple case, one room. You want it July 1 - 8. So do I. you go to book it on Aug. 1. However, I booked it on July 30 for June 30th - July 6. You can not book it on August 1st. I then go in and modify my reservation to July 1-8 on August 1st. I walked my reservation. You can do this for a month or more even. And when it is done long term, a room appears unavailable until it is walked past the time frame at which you are looking. Take the above case and say I booked that same room for June 1 - 8 with the intent of walking it to July 1 - 8. At some point someone wants it June 15th. Its not available as I am walking i - and my current reservation at this time is for June 12- June 19h. But once I pass june 15th on my way to July 1 - say when my reservation is for June 20 - 27th, it is available for you. It wasnt available at 11 months, but it was at 10 months and 25 days. (The walker has passed it)

well this sounds like a disaster. Man - does this happen often? Based on this whole walking business does that not make it difficult to get a room practically anywhere? Generally we travel late January - not sure if that will make a difference. We do always try to go at lower season. But man - this is a whole new revelation.

 

[TexasChick123]

The only other thing I will add is that when you wait list (WL) something the lack of dedicated 2BRs is an issue there as well. For example, if you want a standard studio and put in a WL, you and the 2BR people are essentially on the same WL. If there is a standard 1BR available, or it becomes available at the same time as the studio, then your standard studio WL is competing with standard 2BRs too. Conversely, you are competing with 1BR WLs as well as studio WLs when looking for a standard 2BR. It's one of the reasons we ended up selling BWV. We like the 2BRs, and the only things that were available regularly were P/G view. We would've preferred standard view with boardwalk view being secondary, but they can both be really tough to get.

You will need to learn how to walk if you ever want to get a standard studio. Also, your travel times will change as kids get older and are in school. We went from traveling at non-peak times to working around school schedules now that the kids are both in elementary school.

I see you want a studio that sleeps 5. If you ever decide you want more space, and most of us do, you will be pushed into a 2BR because the max capacity in 4 in a 1BR at BWV. A lot of resorts have a max capacity of 5 in a 1BR, but not BWV.

FTR, we sold BWV and bought RIV even though we are current owners and know all about the resale restrictions. As @DVC BLT said, you need to take all the doom and gloom on this board with a grain of salt. Every resort has it's pros and cons. We sold BWV because we ended up not liking the rooms as much as we thought we would the more we stayed there, shorter contract life, difficulty booking standard 2BRs, and we just liked RIV so much more as a resort, but that was us. I will still happily stay at BWV on some of my other points and get a P/G view room pretty easily depending on the time of year, but I didn't want to own there anymore.

 

[bakerworld]

My husband doesn't care for BW which I think is a combination of the clown pool, a bad experience at the pool (Carousel) bar, some of the weirder decor at check-in and maintenance issues. I do not have an aversion to BW although some of the rooms we have had have been 'well used' and the last few stays in a studio the coffee table had been removed (haven't stayed there in like 5 years so I am not sure if this is still the case). I think we've just had some bad luck there with maintenance and room location. I would stay there again but we tend to gravitate to the Beach Club.

Frankly, if you like the location and enjoy the World every 2 or 3 years, I would check into the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin. In January their rooms can run low, like $159/n. Last Labor day our room were under $200/n. They do charge for parking and a $30/n resort fee, which can be offset by refusing daily housekeeping.

 

[MICKIMINI]

Walking is selfish and it has become such an issue that members feel forced to do so as there is (usually) a lot riding on a trip - both emotionally and financially. With two working parent families, school and activities I think it gets harder to schedule all the time. We've been there but are now older and creakier (that part sucks) but only DH works so we do have more flexibility scheduling at 11 or 7 months out. I have never walked, but we have done our first visit together since our son married (we bought in 1996 when he was 8) which was wonderful and when the grandkids come and we have a special date...well, we'll see at that time.

Late January, past MLK holiday shouldn't be too bad. I've learned (and am teaching my DIL) to "stalk" the reservation tool and find that villas open up all the time. DIL called last week as she found a studio at Poly available for their trip for my son's birthday next month and we grabbed it - and it replaced a SSR studio that we grabbed about three weeks ago for a last minute trip. Don't let this stop you from purchasing as I think technology keeps changing our lives and not always for the better...focus on your family and it will all work out.

 

[Nicola2n]

I'd consider BRV, resale is a bargain and it is a gorgeous resort, great for kids and a quick, relaxing boat ride to MK, Wilderness Campground (great play area) and the monorail which gives you more of a seamless experience trying to get around...just a few thoughts.

We stayed at Yacht Club a few years back and absolutely loved it. The shared pool between BC and YC is amazing. The only thing I don't love about the BCV is that for a family of five we either stay in a studio room or have to then jump directly to a two bedroom as the one bedroom only sleeps 4. I like the resorts that will sleep 5 in a one BR as it gives us more options. I will add that we were looking to start with a contract of about 150 points for now just to get our feet wet. That wouldn't allow us to stay in a two BR at BCV unfortunately.

 

[crvetter]

We stayed at Yacht Club a few years back and absolutely loved it. The shared pool between BC and YC is amazing. The only thing I don't love about the BCV is that for a family of five we either stay in a studio room or have to then jump directly to a two bedroom as the one bedroom only sleeps 4. I like the resorts that will sleep 5 in a one BR as it gives us more options. I will add that we were looking to start with a contract of about 150 points for now just to get our feet wet. That wouldn't allow us to stay in a two BR at BCV unfortunately.

If you are booking BCV (and BWV/BRV is the same) on points then the 1 bedroom sleeps 4; however, you have to provide the linen/sleeping surface for the 5th guest.

 

[Nicola2n]

FTR, we sold BWV and bought RIV even though we are current owners and know all about the resale restrictions. As @DVC BLT said, you need to take all the doom and gloom on this board with a grain of salt. Every resort has it's pros and cons. We sold BWV because we ended up not liking the rooms as much as we thought we would the more we stayed there, shorter contract life, difficulty booking standard 2BRs, and we just liked RIV so much more as a resort, but that was us. I will still happily stay at BWV on some of my other points and get a P/G view room pretty easily depending on the time of year, but I didn't want to own there anymore.

Thank you so much for all of your insight. I find it's actually been really helpful and brought my attention to things I wouldn't have even considered. Now you've got me thinking RIV again. arrgh. Maybe we're just not ready after all. Flip flopping all over the place. It's a scary purchase / decision I find. Maybe that notion in itself says we shouldn't purchase right now....

 

[Nicola2n]

If you are booking BCV (and BWV/BRV is the same) on points then the 1 bedroom sleeps 4; however, you have to provide the linen/sleeping surface for the 5th guest.

So you can actually sleep five in the one bedroom - but it's BYOB? Bring your own Bed????

 

[crvetter]

So you can actually sleep five in the one bedroom - but it's BYOB? Bring your own Bed????

Correct but only for point bookings. Cash booking through CRO only allow 4. SSR is like this also in the current un-renovated rooms but the renovated 1 beds there added another sleeping surface (which isn't surprising since SSR/BCV/BRV/BWV all have similar layouts in the studio, 1 and 2 beds).

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/destinations/list/florida/beach-club-villas/points-rooms/
Looking under the description for the 1 bedroom (similar for all other resorts I mentioned above, bolded for emphasis):

1-Bedroom Villa
View Floor Plans- Modal
Launch Virtual Tour- Modal
Views of Disney's Beach Club Resort, Woods, Pool or Courtyard
1 king-size bed, 1 queen-size sleeper sofa
5th guest can be accommodated, but please note that no additional bedding, linens or towels will be provided.
Sleeps Up to 4

 

[jerseyduke]

well this sounds like a disaster. Man - does this happen often? Based on this whole walking business does that not make it difficult to get a room practically anywhere? Generally we travel late January - not sure if that will make a difference. We do always try to go at lower season. But man - this is a whole new revelation.

I will not opine on morality of walking, but it doesn't happen often enough to really affect things. Perhaps certain room types and certain times of years. If you think you are going to get a BLT Standard view Studio for early December at 11 months you are in for a rude awakening. Its a high demand time and there are not many of them. If you are ok with ANY studio, probably fine. January I would not worry about it.

 

[DVC BLT]

Thank you so much for all of your insight. I find it's actually been really helpful and brought my attention to things I wouldn't have even considered. Now you've got me thinking RIV again. arrgh. Maybe we're just not ready after all. Flip flopping all over the place. It's a scary purchase / decision I find. Maybe that notion in itself says we shouldn't purchase right now....

This is called paralysis by analysis. Its common, I dealt with it for years myself. If your concern comes from the financial side as if your not sure you can afford it, follow your gut and walk away. If your just trying to make the perfect decision, don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good." RIV is the more deluxe resort and has more years, if you love staying at one of the legacy resorts because it makes you happy, go for it. You should buy where you want to stay and where you are happy, otherwise the cost doesn't matter. There are few moments in life where you can have pure bliss, saving a few bucks isn't worth trading that feeling for.

FWIW, I did the same analysis on BLT years ago, and ended up paying more as I purchased later on at what I think was $113 per point, where I could have had it for less the first time we toured it. I was just so afraid of making the right decision, and now, I wish I could have spoken to my younger self and just said jump.

 

[Heather07438]

We're looking very closely at BWV as our 1st DVC too. After giving all resorts consideration both resale and direct at current prices, I've learned 2 things:

• RIV is actually not horrible. The cost* per point per year including dues is in the $12 range (due to 50 yrs left on the contract). A pro for me is the potential to be included in the next phase of new DVC resorts over those next 50 yrs. The resale restriction may not matter in 15+ yrs if the newest DVC resorts become high demand and RIV is included to trade in.
• OKW resale doesn't really hold any advantage other than less contract years (at a higher price per year). Resale has 22yrs on the contract and price per point/year is slightly over $12.50pp. Direct gets you 37yrs and is slightly under $12.50pp. That kind of shocked me when looking at it this way. OKW is a resale anomaly and doesn't make much sense to me.

BWV for comparison is in the $16pp range Direct and $13pp range Resale. On 100 point contract, that equals paying about $300 extra each year Direct (200pt contract would be $600). If Blue Card benefits are desirable to you, those extra hundreds spent could be well worth it. Or maybe you'd rather save those hundreds and buy some party tickets on your trip lol, or just simply save money.

*Basically I divided the cost of a purchased point by the years left on a contract, then added the dues. I expect dues to follow inflation similarly enough that increased dues should mirror today's dollar value. When calculating this way SSR resale comes in as the cheapest around $10 per year per point, and I think BC is the most expensive around $18 Direct.

ETA- Sorry, I meant $12.50 at OKW (not $16.50)

 

[MICKIMINI]

There is a short term fix for your 1-2 BR issue which is buying triple points in resale (yes, they are out there and we have been able to buy them). It will take a bit more patience to find one and price is at a premium but you will start out with plenty of points for your first couple trips...perhaps then you will win the lottery and can buy a boatload of points! At any rate, you can always buy single use points or pay cash for a night or two or do a split stay (better/bigger villa last or you will be disappointed). Smaller contracts are better (125 or less IMO) anyway if you decide to sell as they go quickly and for a premium...I know, no one likes to think about selling but life sometimes does get in the way and it's good to have an "out" just in case.

 

[crvetter]

The resale restriction may not matter in 15+ yrs if the newest DVC resorts become high demand and RIV is included to trade in.

I just want to clarify that DVC has been very clear, currently all new resorts Riviera and beyond, will only allowed to book their own resort in resale. So currently you can really only value the popularity of Rivera as a home resort (Exclusive booking) to prevent it from going too cheap on the resale market. Any ability for Riviera Resale to trade into new resorts would require DVC to update the resale restrictions that are currently written in the Riviera legal documents, which they have already stated they can modify at will. So as you stated if they change that then maybe Riviera can trade into the new resorts but so far DVC has been saying don't count on that, especially considering they wrote in rules to allow them to charge for that trade at 7 months (I suspect you see a fee involved).

 

[jerseyduke]

Thank you so much for all of your insight. I find it's actually been really helpful and brought my attention to things I wouldn't have even considered. Now you've got me thinking RIV again. arrgh. Maybe we're just not ready after all. Flip flopping all over the place. It's a scary purchase / decision I find. Maybe that notion in itself says we shouldn't purchase right now....

The tipping point for me was knowing there was an easy out (the resale market).
If you buy resale, and find out DVC it not for you, you sell it. You are out a years worth of dues, some commissions and closing costs. But you got a vacation. Your overall loss will not be that much
dues + commission + closing cost - price you would have paid for your hotel for that week.
Maybe you lose 1,000$. And this is pretty much the worst case. I do not know many people what want to lose a grand, but if doing so will put you on the streets then you shouldn't be looking at DVC.

My personal issue with Riviera is just not enough data yet to know how much the contract will be worth on the resale market. They could hit the resale market in line with all previous resorts. But they could hit the resale market in the low hundreds in which case hitting the eject button COULD be quite costly. For that reason I would not buy DRR at this point in time in I had doubts about DVC being for me or not. I'd wait until I was pretty sure DVC was for me, or that I saw DRR contracts were holding their value. A resale contract....YOLO

 

[Heather07438]

I just want to clarify that DVC has been very clear, currently all new resorts Riviera and beyond, will only allowed to book their own resort in resale. So currently you can really only value the popularity of Rivera as a home resort (Exclusive booking) to prevent it from going too cheap on the resale market. Any ability for Riviera Resale to trade into new resorts would require DVC to update the resale restrictions that are currently written in the Riviera legal documents, which they have already stated they can modify at will. So as you stated if they change that then maybe Riviera can trade into the new resorts but so far DVC has been saying don't count on that, especially considering they wrote in rules to allow them to charge for that trade at 7 months (I suspect you see a fee involved).

Thank you for clarifying as I did wonder about the specifics here.

Something gives me the feeling that smart WDW will figure out a way to increase desire at the new resorts going forward. It's hard to compete with resorts that already take up the best locations. I'm expecting WDW to somehow even that playing field to boost their DVC expansions. PURE speculation on my part though, lol.

 

[Sandisw]

I own at BWV still..sold one contract a few months back to buy at RIV.

It is my husband’s favorite He likes the walking to the two parks, it is definitely a good resort in terms of having options for lower point cost rooms, However, over the past few years, I am 1 for 6 in securing a SV studio during the Fall and around Memorial Day weekend. So, if you go in with the expectation you will need to go with pool/garden, then when you can get SV it is a big win,

One of the reasons I wanted to trade BWV for RIV was the longer contract, I will say, IMO, that in about 10 years, the resale value of BWV will be low and if you decided at that time you wanted to sell, I think it’s value would be comparable...most likely even lower,,then what you’d be able to sell RIV for at that time.

One of the drawbacks for me of BWV has always been that you have to walk outside to go to the bakery for drinks and food. Not bad when it’s nice,..not so nice when it is raining,

But, I will say the SV 1 bedrooms are pretty reasonable and those don’t go that fast. While yes, at BWV, you need to provide the extra sleeping space for the 5th person, it’s cost is actually only 3 points more a night in January,...using 2021 charts.,,then if you bought RIV and had to get a PV studio.

Good luck!

 

[skier_pete]

The only true problem with BWV is the short contract combined with the buy-in price. You are only getting 22 years for what is not much less money than Riviera at 50.

Think of it this way - you pay say $125 per point for BWV and in 22 years your contract value is zero. You pay $177 for Riviera, and in 22 years your contract may be worth less, but still maybe worth $125. For 100 points, that's a difference of $12,500. If you don't care that your money is gone in 22 years, then go for it. We bought a small BWV contract (75 points) accepting that. I can't see buying a LOT of points at BWV because of that end date.