Buyer beware: fraudulent ebay seller

[Brian Noble]

There's been a lot of discussion over on TUG about a particular eBay seller that has actively defrauded a number of resale buyers of various timeshares. They list a number of high-value timeshares, not just DVC. If you want to know the particulars, you can read about them here:
https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/travel4you5-ebay-seller-a-k-a-national-resort-title-et-al.349560/

You can buy timeshares on eBay. I've done so twice, and it was easy both times. But, you do need to do a lot of due diligence in vetting a seller. Some things to watch out for:

• The seller insists you can only use their closing company.
• The seller only takes forms of payment that are hard to reverse.
• They have no eBay feedback, or they have high feedback but mostly as a buyer or seller of many low-value items. (The seller in the thread above churned a high feedback by selling and buying trading cards.)
• They will not supply a complete copy of the deed, an estoppel, or other document proving they have possession of what they are selling.

None of these are necessarily guarantees that the seller is fraudulent (except perhaps churning feedback): A few of them are also typical hallmarks of a "postcard company," and those are often willing and able to transfer the timeshare. I bought one of mine that way.

So if you are relatively new to the world of timeshare, make a point of sticking to the well-known brokers. There are some "too good to be true" deals out there with some of the more fly-by-night sellers, and they usually aren't true!

 

[Sandisw]

Thank you for sharing and it’s one of the reasons that the DIS do not allow people to post information about what they want to buy.

It can lead to situations just like this!!

 

[Kevin O'Brien]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
My Mom never let's me purchase through ebay unless if ebay is acting on behalf of a reputable business.
There's also a fake Shopdisney websites too they use the shopdisney logo and all products are reduced and once purchased you don't receive anything and it's difficult to get refund from scammers unless you do credit card disputes. There's a website called disneyselling .com which is a scam they use the shopdisney logo and all products half price but you don't receive the (sorry about the space before the .com because the disboard wouldn't let me post reply)
When we book Disney or a holiday as we are from UK we always book with Travel Agent that's licensed with ABTA and ATOL protected because it gives us a piece of mind knowing that we are financially protected and they put all of our travel arrangements and requirements into one whole package just in case any change of plans of flights and we would have supplier failure protection too with ATOL protected.
If shopping online and copy and paste the URL and go onto Scamadvisor website and paste the URL in the search bar on the scamadvisor website and it will tell you if it's a safe website or if it's not a safe website.

 

[CraigInPA]

Many years ago, I tried to buy a 300 point BRV contract on ebay. The auction ran to the end and the no-reserve ending price per point was low (about $40pp when the prevailing price was more like $55pp). The seller had a good amount of positive feedback. I made contact with the seller to get the particulars on the contract to send to my choice of title agent. The seller refused to give me the owner's name (red flag #1) for fear that I'd "contact the seller directly and remove them as the broker". I asked for a deed number so that the purchase could be submitted for ROFR. Refused for the same reason. She claimed she was a real state agent, but wouldn't give me her actual name or brokerage name (red flag #2).

The seller sent me their "sales contract". The name of the seller was blank, as was the membership information (red flag #3). The entire balance was payable to "broker" (ebay lister) upon signing the contract (red flag #4). We're talking about $12k. They suggested I pay via American Express card if I felt "uneasy" about the transaction. I asked that we use a title company to handle the payment, since the title company would protect both of us. The response was that "this is the way we sell timeshares in North Carolina". (red flag #5)

My response was to get the contact information from ebay for the seller. I looked up their address on google maps. It was a vacant lot next to a car repair shop. I then went to the North Carolina real estate licensing bureau and looked up the company name from ebay, and her name. Neither were registered. I called the real estate licensing bureau and spoke to a very pleasant woman who listened to my tale. She confirmed my online search with her own search, asked for a copy of the listing where the person claimed to be a real estate agent, and said she would "research and take appropriate action". An hour later, she called me back and said she spoke to the "real estate agent" and said that person isn't licensed nor affiliated with a licensed brokerage, so she'd get a letter saying she needed to stop selling real estate as a broker.

I made contact with the ebay seller and told them that I wasn't going to buy the timeshare because they couldn't prove that it existed, and was going to report her to ebay for deceptive information in her listings. I left her a negative feedback because she still had a number of timeshare auctions still running. The response was a "very professional" scree towards me filled with four letter words and bad grammar. Her auctions then all disappeared. A review of her early feedback showed she had sold a lot of $1 timeshares. When she graduated to selling DVC timeshares is where it went all off the rails. Feedback after mine was all negative or neutral. All said their purchase was taken in ROFR and they had to wait weeks for a refund.

I suspect it all a scam. She was playing a kite game. She'd get the full amount of the sale for a timeshare that didn't exist. She then told people that she'd send it for ROFR. Three to four weeks later, she'd say that it didn't pass ROFR and would refund the money minus the ebay fee and her $100 broker fee in a few days. So, she'd get use of your money for a month, and you paid her for the privilege of doing that.

Scammers are creative, but the use of a title company of your choice stops them in their tracks.

 

[bwang123]

• They have no eBay feedback, or they have high feedback but mostly as a buyer or seller of many low-value items. (The seller in the thread above churned a high feedback by selling and buying trading cards.)

People buy and sell ebay accounts with established reviews. It's likely the person never even sold trading cards and only bought an account.

 

[DonMacGregor]

People buy and sell ebay accounts with established reviews. It's likely the person never even sold trading cards and only bought an account.

I was last week years old when I found out you can buy YouTube likes...by the hundreds.

 

[Kevin O'Brien]

I was last week years old when I found out you can buy YouTube likes...by the hundreds.

Why would people want to buy youtube likes and ebay login accounts that's a bit weird.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Why would people want to buy youtube likes and ebay login accounts that's a bit weird.

On YouTube it's all about subs and likes: those drive the algorithms that steer other viewers to a channel. Channels/videos with a high ratio of likes will populate the "suggested video" lists of more viewers.

 

[Kevin O'Brien]

On YouTube it's all about subs and likes: those drive the algorithms that steer other viewers to a channel. Channels/videos with a high ratio of likes will populate the "suggested video" lists of more viewers.

Sounds like a waste of money just to get people to press the thumb up button on their youtube videos.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Sounds like a waste of money just to get people to press the thumb up button on their youtube videos.

Well there must be some upside, otherwise the market wouldn't exist. Views equal money.

 

[agcav]

I almost got suckered it a few months ago, as I’ve seen people post their points for rent I saw that there were a few contracts going for $6000. After just having left Disney and meeting with DVC, we knew the prices and were shocked to see this.
I was in contact with this seller and have an entire email thread where she tried to sell me 160 pts at SSR for $5,500.
When we asked how can we confirm legitimacy of the deal she responded with;
Your payment will be ran by National Resort Title and they will hold escrow until transfer is complete. They are licensed, bonded, and insured Title company and you can request that from them at any time. They also have been in business for over 7 years and you can look them up online. They handle transfers for many companies and they are the fastest out there today. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks
Sarah

Seeing that we’re in Canada but very new to DVC and how it works we decided to research this Company and quickly figured out it was a scam but all of her listings sell.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

Because most of the “legitimate” timeshare resellers are so shady (outside of the dozen or so DVC specialists and a couple others), it’s nearly impossible for an amateur to tell a scam from a legitimate offer, as that legitimate offer is probably from a fly by night organization who is instead ripping off a desperate seller. Either way someone is getting hosed, how can you be sure it isn’t you? I wouldn’t bother trying. I’ll stick with Redweek or Fidelity for a non-DVC and a reputable DVC seller for DVC.

 

[Mle8308]

Well there must be some upside, otherwise the market wouldn't exist. Views equal money.

Yes! And more likes the better the high paying advertising, hence the YouTuber makes more money.

 

[Huskerpaul]

Because most of the “legitimate” timeshare resellers are so shady (outside of the dozen or so DVC specialists and a couple others), it’s nearly impossible for an amateur to tell a scam from a legitimate offer, as that legitimate offer is probably from a fly by night organization who is instead ripping off a desperate seller. Either way someone is getting hosed, how can you be sure it isn’t you? I wouldn’t bother trying. I’ll stick with Redweek or Fidelity for a non-DVC and a reputable DVC seller for DVC.

I have purchased three different timeshares through ebay in the past 12 months. All went fine (one way faster than my DVC resale purchase). Like anything else, you have to do your research and only work with established sellers vetted through TUGG.

Using ebay I bought a 2 bedroom lock-off week at Marriott's Grande Vista in Orlando for $563 Gold season. Good in the Spring and all Fall up to Christmas week. With the amount of money at stake for a DVC contract I would have a hard time using ebay.

 

[DVC QUEEN]

Hi! So I am one of the buyers talking about these people on TUG. I pulled the trigger on a listing he had for BRV and used my credit card. I didn't really have an issue until the Title company reached out and I googled them. What a mess! Yes they are a real Title Company and I was able to verify their bond however the eBay seller and the title company are together. They also have an F rating with the BBB. National Resort Title in TN.

I was smart enough to reach out to my DVC rep and he was able to confirm I did not have a valid contract number and it was missing key information that would have to be included in order to submit ROFR. The seller refused to give me the real sellers name, refused to give me the actual contract number, copy of the deed, estoppel or any other verifiable information and claimed "privacy concerns we've had people reach out to our clients so we don't give that information. It's all BS

Once I informed this person my file was never sent for ROFR as the title company claimed AND I had this in writing from DVC, he cancelled the transaction on his own and sent me a full refund check.

I've purchased DVC online in the past via Ebay and never ran into an issue like this before. Wish I would have seen the reviews sooner but thankfully all I lost was some time and energy.

 

[Huskerpaul]

Please leave a neagtive review of this seller on eBay. Others needs to be warned. They usually delay everything past 3 months from the transaction do that no negative comments can be left. Glad you got out in time!

 

[DVC QUEEN]

Please leave a neagtive review of this seller on eBay. Others needs to be warned. They usually delay everything past 3 months from the transaction do that no negative comments can be left. Glad you got out in time!

I've already reached out to Ebay and have a claim going against the seller because he attempted to do a transaction for another 250 BRV points OUTSIDE of Ebay. I will not leave a negative comment until my refund check has cleared the bank, just in case. My credit card company will refund me in full if the check doesn't clear but I'm just waiting until this is over. Luckily, someone else just provided a negative feedback for a unit due to no contact.

 

[CraigInPA]

Hi! So I am one of the buyers talking about these people on TUG. I pulled the trigger on a listing he had for BRV and used my credit card. I didn't really have an issue until the Title company reached out and I googled them. What a mess! Yes they are a real Title Company and I was able to verify their bond however the eBay seller and the title company are together. They also have an F rating with the BBB. National Resort Title in TN.

Once I informed this person my file was never sent for ROFR as the title company claimed AND I had this in writing from DVC, he cancelled the transaction on his own and sent me a full refund check.

This sounds eerily like my seller from 2016... jqtravel844 was the ebay user name. The only difference here is that they seem to have moved across the state line to TN and now have a "title company" to run their scam. They are kiting your money. You pay. They use your money for a month (or longer, if you don't raise a fuss), and then they refund it. The timeshare never existed.

 

[Epcot Forever Forever]

They are kiting your money. You pay. They use your money for a month (or longer, if you don't raise a fuss), and then they refund it

Bingo!

 

[DVC QUEEN]

Bingo!

So they are just "borrowing" my money? Seems rather odd but I'd believe anything at this point! ha