Budgeting for End of Life Costs

[AntePrincess]

A spin off from the other funeral thread because there were so many excellent ideas there, and I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy a small life insurance policy to cover my funeral, etc.

In our case, we're looking at a budget, direct cremation and a companion urn (which we're buying ahead of time). We'll have a church service with the ashes and a portrait present, followed by a lunch or tea reception in the church hall, catered with grocery trays. No internment.

The costly items I'm interested in are a wake (with the ashes and portrait, so basically a dinner for close family) and memorial cards. The cards have meant a great deal to me over the years.

Nowadays, I'm not sure how important a printed obituary is, so I probably wouldn't request any. Just a notice sent to old schools and churches, and something posted on all our social media sites.

Think that justifies a life insurance policy to cover? How do others make that decision?

 

[Straitlover]

I am single, no kids. I have a $50,000 policy to cover this stuff. My current monthly premium is less than $10/month; it goes up a little every 5 years. Definitely worth the little expense for the peace of mind. I don't even want a funeral, but my sister says there will be if I go first, so this is so she won't have to pay anything out of pocket. Whatever's left, she can have.

 

[sissy_ib]

Do you work? Have children? Would your income be missed in the household? Would your spouse need to take significant time off work if you passed?

When buying life insurance we need to look at what would happen if we were gone today.

 

[NotUrsula]

A spin off from the other funeral thread because there were so many excellent ideas there, and I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy a small life insurance policy to cover my funeral, etc.

In our case, we're looking at a budget, direct cremation and a companion urn (which we're buying ahead of time). We'll have a church service with the ashes and a portrait present, followed by a lunch or tea reception in the church hall, catered with grocery trays. No internment.

The costly items I'm interested in are a wake (with the ashes and portrait, so basically a dinner for close family) and memorial cards. The cards have meant a great deal to me over the years.

Nowadays, I'm not sure how important a printed obituary is, so I probably wouldn't request any. Just a notice sent to old schools and churches, and something posted on all our social media sites.

Think that justifies a life insurance policy to cover? How do others make that decision?

You can buy policies that are specifically designed for paying funeral expenses; they are cheaper than regular life insurance policies.

If you buy one, set it up to pay at least 3X what the services you want will cost at the present time. (Example: my mother's policy, which paid out 11 years after she purchased it, had a $100 allowance for a casket spray (flowers). I ended up paying an additional $150 to the florist because the price of flowers had dramatically increased in the interim; not even daisies could be had for what had originally been budgeted.)

I'm with you on the Mass cards; those are a must-have for Irish funerals. The only photograph that I have of one of my grandmothers is the one on her Mass card. If you want nice ones at a good price, look online at printers that service Irish communities; it is a competitive market.

 

[KennesawNemo]

I always say just burn me into ashes and flush me down the toilet.

This is honestly what I think, so I would not be saving for my funeral.

That being said, whoever is going to do my funeral is free to do whatever he wants to do. I am dead. I can't care less.

 

[RitaE]

We always just rolled that consideration into our other life insurance needs to get one lump sum - pay off the house, pay for college accounts, an amount to get the surviving spouse well set during the remaining years etc.

Not that we are getting older, we could just pay for a funeral out of emergency funds so it isn't a worry. When we get much, much older we'll probably do pre-paid funeral planning even though it is supposed to be a poor "investment" of money - if your could ever think of a pre-paid funeral as an investment.

After having been through the funeral arrangements drama a couple of times now it is a burden I just with to take off of my kids, even if it costs a more.

 

[bettymae1121]

I know with my mother, my dad just paid out of pocket for her funeral. It was 10k to have her remains flown from AZ to IL (so my mom's family could say goodbye) the services of two funeral homes (one in AZ to get her ready to transport, one in IL to handle the wake), have a wake (flowers, casket, etc.) and then do a cremation. Not cheap but, for my father at least, nothing he couldn't afford either.

If you plan to retire comfortably I don't see a reason to have insurance just for the funeral. I'd only worry about it if you suspect there won't be funds left in the estate to cover burial costs. If you think it will be an issue, I'd guess a $25k term policy (per person) would be more than enough for the next 20 or so years, even with inflation. You should be able to get that pretty cheap. I have a $50k one for $11 a month (got it when I was younger and since it was so cheap, just kept it even though I now have a much larger policy to support my DH and DD should something happen).

 

[2disneyboys]

We always just rolled that consideration into our other life insurance needs to get one lump sum - pay off the house, pay for college accounts, an amount to get the surviving spouse well set during the remaining years etc.

Not that we are getting older, we could just pay for a funeral out of emergency funds so it isn't a worry. When we get much, much older we'll probably do pre-paid funeral planning even though it is supposed to be a poor "investment" of money - if your could ever think of a pre-paid funeral as an investment.

After having been through the funeral arrangements drama a couple of times now it is a burden I just with to take off of my kids, even if it costs a more.

(bolded) this is my mom's perspective. Aftering having to deal w/ nightmare funeral, she does not want that to be a concern or worry for us kids. I agree that it's not really a "good" investment, but she's looking at it more from the perspective or not having to burden her kids rather than as a investment.

OP, A small term policy would prob be a good ideal if your in the position to get it. by the time the "term" is up, if you still alive, you could revaluate then.

 

[MomToOne]

Personally, while having the funds to cover your funeral is important, what is just as is important is leaving VERY CLEAR, DETAILED instructions about what you want. For example (from the voice of experience) - don't tell everyone you want to be cremated, but never say what you want done with your ashes - that lack of detail can cause all sorts of arguments between family members after you are gone.

And in detailing what you want, be sure to consider what the people left behind will need to say goodbye.

 

[angwill]

A spin off from the other funeral thread because there were so many excellent ideas there, and I'm trying to decide whether or not to buy a small life insurance policy to cover my funeral, etc.

In our case, we're looking at a budget, direct cremation and a companion urn (which we're buying ahead of time). We'll have a church service with the ashes and a portrait present, followed by a lunch or tea reception in the church hall, catered with grocery trays. No internment.

The costly items I'm interested in are a wake (with the ashes and portrait, so basically a dinner for close family) and memorial cards. The cards have meant a great deal to me over the years.

Nowadays, I'm not sure how important a printed obituary is, so I probably wouldn't request any. Just a notice sent to old schools and churches, and something posted on all our social media sites.

Think that justifies a life insurance policy to cover? How do others make that decision?

First do you have enough in savings to pay for those costs? If not it sounds like your two choices are to put away what you would pay for a life insurance policy into a special savings account assigned for funeral costs. Second choice would be to go with the insurance policy.

Nobody should have to worry about the costs of a funeral while they are grieving having the money takes away that stress and worry so they can just grieve.

We got our term life insurance when we were young and newly married and got one for our son too just in case. Our son's cost us $2,400 for $20,000 that follows him till he dies and he can increase the amount no matter what his health is whenever he wants.

 

[bumbershoot]

I always say just burn me into ashes and flush me down the toilet.

This is honestly what I think, so I would not be saving for my funeral.

That being said, whoever is going to do my funeral is free to do whatever he wants to do. I am dead. I can't care less.

The flushing can be done for free. The cremation, however, cannot. In '06, a simple cremation at a crematorium/mausoleum was $800 here in Tacoma, WA. It's more in Seattle. This included transportation from the place of death to their facilities. We also had to pay for a box. This was an ABSOLUTE, they couldn't cremate him without that. We got the cheapest one. This also included a very budget urn. For extra, they took the ashes out on their boat, once the weather was warmer, and scattered the ashes in the Sound.

At that time, this was a HUGE burden on his wife, and none of the adult kids could help at all.

What you're saying SOUNDS simple and easy, but it still does have costs to it, and it would be kind of you to make the money available for it. Although we didn't use them, you might look into pre-paying with the Neptune Society, and then making sure that whoever might be planning your cremation knows about your plans.




OP, some of the info I just wrote is for you, too.

We got so lucky (if you can use that word in such circumstances), because we knew that FIL had converted to Buddhism (and was OK with cremation...he had started off as Catholic, and while it's allowed for Catholics to be cremated now, it wasn't always, and if he was still Catholic it would have been a question), and so we went from there. Weeks later, while going through his stuff, I found out that he had very recently contacted the Neptune Society, and was planning on making pre-paid arrangements with them. Whew. We were glad to know that we had guessed/assumed correctly.

 

[Alexander]

My grandmother, God rest her soul, died in Florida. She asked to be cremated because the expense of shipping her body back to NY was huge. She was so funny "at the end". She had all of her mental wit about her when she said, "Now, you have me cremated and ship me back UPS. It will save you money that way."

 

[NotUrsula]

My grandmother, God rest her soul, died in Florida. She asked to be cremated because the expense of shipping her body back to NY was huge. She was so funny "at the end". She had all of her mental wit about her when she said, "Now, you have me cremated and ship me back UPS. It will save you money that way."

Except that UPS (and FedEx) won't ship cremains.

I don't mean to be snarky here; I mean to illustrate that even when the details seem crystal clear, it's possible that something has been overlooked. FWIW, if you want to ship cremains you have to use the US Postal Service, and you must ship them via Registered Mail, return receipt requested.

For those who are interested, information on the rules on shipping cremains or transporting them on an aircraft: http://www.funeralethics.org/cremains.htm

 

[leight]

I come from an italian, catholic family where the norm for funerals was 3 days of wakes-2 per day. With the rosary being said the night before the funeral mass/ burial. Then a funeral mass at the church and the ride past the decedent's residence, favorite place(sometimes if nearby) and then to the cemetary where there was another blessing said at the chapel there and some immediate family attended the actual burial. There was always huge amounts of catered food between the two wakes per day- which usually started from 1-4 and then from 7-9pm- I always thought that this was ridiculous.

When I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder, I contacted my life insurance policy agent and asked about riders. I was able to add one on that added an additional 50k to the policy specific to my after life requests.

I want my husband and family(some extended-cousins, etc) to take a cruise and enjoy it in memory of me. It was our favorite vacation and I'd have loved to have been on a family trip like that. I have it written down explicitly. I would like my cremains to be scattered at sea but will have to look into those regulations. The memorial mass that would be held at home would be for the closure of the older generation but I'd rather that my generation and the next would remember me with a smile as they thought of a great trip! Luckily, this hasn't yet come to pass, but the extra 3 bucks I pay a month to have added the rider has eased my mind about it all.

 

[PrincessTDQ]

Background info, my mother is 80 in a nursing home with congestive heart failure and stage four renal failure. Now, she's had both of these conditions for about 7 years. She's been in the nursing home for 6 months following a stroke. Obviously she could go any minute or live another 10 years. Her mother was 90 when she died, and her dad was in his 80s when he died. She's also currently on medicaid so her insurance policies will go to pay back medicaid when she dies. We're in Texas and that's the law.

I'm thinking I should take out a policy on her to help with funeral expenses. Any suggestions on where to get funeral insurance?

 

[RitaE]

Background info, my mother is 80 in a nursing home with congestive heart failure and stage four renal failure. Now, she's had both of these conditions for about 7 years. She's been in the nursing home for 6 months following a stroke. Obviously she could go any minute or live another 10 years. Her mother was 90 when she died, and her dad was in his 80s when he died. She's also currently on medicaid so her insurance policies will go to pay back medicaid when she dies. We're in Texas and that's the law.

I'm thinking I should take out a policy on her to help with funeral expenses. Any suggestions on where to get funeral insurance?

We looked into such things when my Mother In Law was in her 60's and far healthier than your Mother. My sister in law was very worried about making sure the money would be in place because it was obvious my MIL would leave nothing and the rest of the siblings are unreliable.

The rates were just ridiculously high and I'm talking it was for something like a $10,000 policy. My husband and his sister set up a joint savings account and started depositing amounts monthly that were just a little less than those insurance premiums. When the time came we thankfully had almost enough to cover everything needed from that account.

 

[NotUrsula]

Background info, my mother is 80 in a nursing home with congestive heart failure and stage four renal failure. Now, she's had both of these conditions for about 7 years. She's been in the nursing home for 6 months following a stroke. Obviously she could go any minute or live another 10 years. Her mother was 90 when she died, and her dad was in his 80s when he died. She's also currently on medicaid so her insurance policies will go to pay back medicaid when she dies. We're in Texas and that's the law.

I'm thinking I should take out a policy on her to help with funeral expenses. Any suggestions on where to get funeral insurance?

Under Federal law, a funeral expense policy is one of the few things that a Medicaid patient can use assets to pay for that the state cannot recover; whoever handled processing her Medicaid application should have advised you to purchase one before her remaining assets were signed over to the nursing home. I don't know if you can get the money for it back from them now, but you could try, though I wouldn't hold out much hope. In addition, some states do allow a certain amount of the estate value to be used for funeral expenses before the clawback kicks in, it looks like Texas is one of them, though I don't see mention of the allowed amount (most of the time it is no more than $2K; the average US funeral costs ~$8K): http://www.dads.state.tx.us/services/estate_recovery/faqs.html

Policies are normally sold by funeral homes and mortuary associations, and online by brokers. In Medicaid situations, the policy must be nonrevokable to qualify; once the money is paid you cannot cancel the policy for a refund.

 

[csharpwv]

OK, something that no one has suggest here is the fact that funeral homes offer pre-paid arrangements. You go in, select the services you want, you lock in today's prices, and you give them complete plans of the 'ideal' scenario - and any other necessary scenarios that you wish provide.

One thing that has been mentioned is passing away while away from home - either due to full time residential retirement in another state (Florida, Arizona, California - wherever) That can be expensive - BUT it is another cost that can be built in to your pre-planning.

When I say you can select ALL of the details, I mean ALL of the details - one friend's great aunt LAID DOWN in her casket, said there wasn't enough padding, and the funeral home sent the casket away to have additional padding added.

Yes, it is morbid - and yes, it is something that can be very difficult to do for yourself - but, imagine how much easier it would be on your family to not have to deal with any of the final arrangements after dealing with such a loss. It just makes sense.

From selecting your burial plot, to your headstone, to your funeral/memorial/prayer cards - to the songs at your funeral service.

The funds are placed in to a trust, and are there at your time of death. You can make payments on pre-need planning and you can see to it that your death isn't a burden to anyone in aspect of cost/expense.

Both of my grandparents were cremated, as was my mother. When it became obvious that my mother's passing was imminent my wife and I spent the day before her passing price shopping for direct cremation.

Some funeral homes DO NOT have their own crematory, some do. We wanted to have a mass of christian burial with the cremains present, so we made sure to use a provider that could have the cremains back to us as soon as possible. The price differences between providers was drastic - from $1,200 to $8,500 - for the same exact services.

This is a scenario were a 'DIY' mentality is necessary for individuals who want their final wishes to be observed.

TO step back from this conversation just a step is to discuss end of life arrangements - life support, painless humane death, and how desperate it is for someone to preserve their life regardless of cost or situation. If your family doesn't know, the decisions are all the more difficult. It isn't enough to just TELL your family what you want - put it in writing, have it notarized, and be sure your doctors know your wishes by placing the end of life directives in your medical files. You are never too young or too healthy to assure that your wishes are known, recorded, and observed should the need arise.

If you have parents that do not have a will, or end of life directives in place - be sure that you guide them in to the process.

 

[KennesawNemo]

The flushing can be done for free. The cremation, however, cannot. In '06, a simple cremation at a crematorium/mausoleum was $800 here in Tacoma, WA. It's more in Seattle. This included transportation from the place of death to their facilities. We also had to pay for a box. This was an ABSOLUTE, they couldn't cremate him without that. We got the cheapest one. This also included a very budget urn. For extra, they took the ashes out on their boat, once the weather was warmer, and scattered the ashes in the Sound.

At that time, this was a HUGE burden on his wife, and none of the adult kids could help at all.

What you're saying SOUNDS simple and easy, but it still does have costs to it, and it would be kind of you to make the money available for it. Although we didn't use them, you might look into pre-paying with the Neptune Society, and then making sure that whoever might be planning your cremation knows about your plans.

I was rather joking in an extreme way. What I meant is I won't have any specific requirements for my funeral nor do I care about how it will be done. I have no problem to have it done in the cheapest way, whatever that is. That might cost couple hundred or thousand dollars, but it should be fine. It'll just be part my saving of "old age". Unless I live to be 150 and eat up all my 401ks, I don't think I'll need to worry about that.

 

[NotUrsula]

...
Both of my grandparents were cremated, as was my mother. When it became obvious that my mother's passing was imminent my wife and I spent the day before her passing price shopping for direct cremation.

Some funeral homes DO NOT have their own crematory, some do. We wanted to have a mass of christian burial with the cremains present, so we made sure to use a provider that could have the cremains back to us as soon as possible. The price differences between providers was drastic - from $1,200 to $8,500 - for the same exact services.
...

I'm going to mention another issue to be aware of here, and it is a touchy one: race. Please understand that I do not mean this as any kind of us vs. them commentary, but especially if you are white, you should be aware that there is hidden racial segregation in the funeral industry, and as a general rule, white-oriented funeral businesses are going to charge a much higher markup than those that serve minority communities.

I learned this when my brother died several states away in a VA hospital in a major city. I wanted a direct cremation done, and all of the names given to me by the hospital social worker seemed have rather high prices. I called her back and asked if she could fax me her entire list for that city so that I could price-shop, and she was very hesitant to do so. When I pressed her, she admitted to me that the other names that she had available were for minority funeral homes, and that she didn't think I would want those, as my brother was so obviously caucasian. EVERY ONE of the minority funeral directors quoted their direct-cremation charges at least 40% less than the cheapest one on the original list that I was initially given.

When I spoke to the company that I eventually selected, they turned out to be very relieved that I was requesting a direct cremation with the cremains shipped to me; they told me that they didn't normally serve white families on their premises and were not sure of our expectations. I told them that I couldn't give two hoots what color they were as long as their services were delivered as promised.

I discovered the price difference in direct cremation without funeral home intervention later on; generally there is no minority price difference there, because most cities only have a handful of actual crematory facilities, and all of the funeral homes subcontract with them.