Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[cardaway]

but, as born again christians, the christian right are welcome here as this thread is for them also. natually, they are also entitled to their opinions and religous/political views just like anyone else here. flaming them or getting offended and protesting wont change any of that. so relax. let it go.

I didn't even open this thread until I read about that Athiest song and I decided to back up a friend (Caity) who responded here. But after that time I read the thread frequently because I found the repsonses interesting, especially since consider a few regulars on this thread to be friends. In fact yesterday tt was quite hurtful to see some of those friends let me get called a troll without saying a word.

Despite the accusation of Whishing upon a star I never came here to flame, troll, or stir up trouble. I responded to things I thought should be responded to or direct responses to my posts.

To kind of quote the movie Clerks, "I'm not even supposed to be here today". Did you not imply just yesterday that you were going to ignore me from that point on, basically agreeing I was a troll that this thread should starve? If I'm not welcome here please do just that. I rather not see my posts resonded to if the implication is that I'm not welcome to respond to them.

Anyway, since things got out of hand it's very likley no post here could be bad enough to get me to bother responding again. If somebody else does respond in the same manner I would hope they would be able to do so without being called a troll.

 

[ead79]

cardaway, while we differ very much on the issues, I don’t consider you to be a troll at all. I think that you have honest questions for us. Don’t assume that everyone here thinks you’re a troll—it’s simply not true.

 

[cardaway]

Yes Cardaway, both sides are doing it. But we have to hold ourselves up as our own best examples. Stooping to the level of others is hardly the best example.

You do realize you are that level I stooped to right?

If you were to pop back in there I would not be asking you to leave.

I'm sure Jesus has a sense of humor, but I doubt that an hour full of random sins is funny to him.

If the show propped them up as an exmaple of eveything that is good in America then maybe the big guy would be concerned. As it stands, he may feel that it succeeds in showing millions of Americans exactly what they should be avoiding becoming. I can't be the only one who turns off the TV and spends the next day making sure I'm nothing like those characters.

 

[ead79]

Hey you guys! In the thread about, "I don't care" -- does anyone disagree that Jesus wouldn't want us to be so hateful about the Qu'ran and Islam, even terrorists? Sorry to bug you guys -- just reaching out to Christians to help me out here.

It got awfully quiet over there when I posted about loving your enemies - Luke 6:27-36

[27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you.

[32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. [35] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful to you.

auntpolly, while I understand the verses, I don’t think I’m completely understanding your point in posting them.

If you are referring to the idea that we as individual Christians should pray for our enemies, then I couldn’t agree with you more. God can save anyone, and praying for our enemies and those who persecute us is important. However, I see the role of the government as different from that of the individual believer. The government, in my opinion, should protect its citizens and punish those who have committed crimes against us. I think it’s easy to lump all Muslims and/or middle easterners together, and that is a dangerous way of thinking.

 

[auntpolly]

auntpolly, while I understand the verses, I don’t think I’m completely understanding your point in posting them.

If you are referring to the idea that we as individual Christians should pray for our enemies, then I couldn’t agree with you more. God can save anyone, and praying for our enemies and those who persecute us is important. However, I see the role of the government as different from that of the individual believer. The government, in my opinion, should protect its citizens and punish those who have committed crimes against us. I think it’s easy to lump all Muslims and/or middle easterners together, and that is a dangerous way of thinking.

Did you read the essay? You think it is loving to talk that way about their holiest of books?

And Jesus didn't just say to pray for our enemies -- he said to LOVE them.

 

[disneymom3]

But, hey, they are judging others, they are intolerant of our beliefs. No question about it. So, I just have to when they come over here on the Christian thread and start attacking us, and telling us that we are intolerant?????

Yeah, it's frustrating. We are intollerant because we say that anyone--anyone--can accept Christ and that God loves us all the same. No matter what we do He won't love us any more or any less, and WE are being intollerant. I can't say I get it, but it doesn't surprise me. The thing is, I find that the people who are the most intollerant of Christians are the ones who are running the fastest away from God's mercy and grace and it makes me really sad for them. There are a few posters on the Raising your child w/o church who I think are just really scared of letting go and giving up "control" to God.

As for books on the beach--anything by Lori Wick is great and not too deep. Dee Henderson's O'Malley's series is good if you like suspense and I just finished the Yada Yada Prayer Group and that was really good, but I did cry a few times so it might not be good beach reading.

 

[Buckalew11]

Aunt Polly,
I thought the tone of that thread was hateful. But that is just me. I can get caught up in those feelings too--esp. if, for example, we were talking about child sex offenders. My hatefulness comes out for sure then. I think torture is too good for someone who hurts a child. Is that Christ-like? I don't think so. It is my human feeling though. I think it may be a normal reaction to say "I don't care" but does that make it right? No, I don't think so. I think we should care. But sometimes it is hard to do. I think it'd take a lot of praying and asking for help to care for your enemies.

About divorce, I agree with much that has been said. I understand where Miss Jasmine is coming from. But since she is a Christian, any sin she commits/ed is forgiven. So what about the gay lifestyle? Why would that be so different? Does the fat lady who is fat from eating way too much food die and go to Hell because she continued to overeat at every meal, everyday? Even though she was a Christian? Or would she have stopped overeating if she was truly saved? I get very confused at this point of the arguement.

 

[auntpolly]

Aunt Polly,
I thought the tone of that thread was hateful. But that is just me. I can get caught up in those feelings too--esp. if, for example, we were talking about child sex offenders. My hatefulness comes out for sure then. I think torture is too good for someone who hurts a child. Is that Christ-like? I don't think so. It is my human feeling though. I think it may be a normal reaction to say "I don't care" but does that make it right? No, I don't think so. I think we should care. But sometimes it is hard to do. I think it'd take a lot of praying and asking for help to care for your enemies.

.

I know that what Christ is asking us to do is probably one of the hardest things we need to try to do, but that doesn't excuse that kind of talk at all. He said that it's easy to love our friends -- even evil people love their friends. If we really do want to be Christlike, we have to listen to what he says.

 

[LukenDC]

AuntPolly, Jesus is highly revered in the Muslim faith. They believe that he was a prophet sent by God to spread a holy message. Unlike Christians, Muslims believe that there were several prophets, with Mohammed being the most important.

In many ways, Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

 

[auntpolly]

AuntPolly, Jesus is highly revered in the Muslim faith. They believe that he was a prophet sent by God to spread a holy message. Unlike Christians, Muslims believe that there were several prophets, with Mohammed being the most important.

In many ways, Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

I know that - but what's your point?

 

[Buckalew11]

I know that what Christ is asking us to do is probably one of the hardest things we need to try to do, but that doesn't excuse that kind of talk at all. He said that it's easy to love our friends -- even evil people love their friends. If we really do want to be Christlike, we have to listen to what he says.

I agree with you. I am not excusing that thread--I'm just saying it is hard to love our enemies. I read that thread this morning before work and it kinda made me feel sick just for the reason you said. What kind of love is that being shown?? I think it shows a bad, but human, side for Christians who show/feel/speak of that kind of hate or just not "caring" for others. Seeing those pics on TV of how we treated those detainees absolutely made me sick. Yeah, those people who had their pics made with them were sorry--sorry they got caught and everyone saw what went on and how were treating thos people.

 

[auntpolly]

I agree with you. I am not excusing that thread--I'm just saying it is hard to love our enemies. I read that thread this morning before work and it kinda made me feel sick just for the reason you said. What kind of love is that being shown?? I think it shows a bad, but human, side for Christians who show/feel/speak of that kind of hate or just not "caring" for others. Seeing those pics on TV of how we treated those detainees absolutely made me sick. Yeah, those people who had their pics made with them were sorry--sorry they got caught and everyone saw what went on and how were treating thos people.

well said, thanks!

 

[swilphil]

Luke 6:27-36

[27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you.

[32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. [35] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful to you.

Polly--Thanks for posting those Bible passages. I don't post here often because I am Episcopalian and we don't fall in the Born Again category, but I do like reading Bible passages. Here are some others that I ran across today. I really like them and think they are very relevant to today.

Luke 18

He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else.
10
"Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector.
11
The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector.
12
I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.'
13
But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God, be merciful to me a sinner.'
14
I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

And Matthew 6
"(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.

When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.

 

[WDWHound]

Hi folks.

Some interesting conversations going on here. I think sometimes that the reason there is some minor conflict between the 2 support threads is the medium which we are using to communicate. Its so easy to read your own assumptions into someone else's written word (in fact, thats a huge danger when interpretting the Bible). I think if the posters on both threads were able to meet face to face, we would find that we have a lot more in common than we know.

On a lighter note, I just got some exciting news in my e-mail (no, I am not saving a ton of money by switching to Gieco). I have been asked to be a team member for a Walk to Emmaus in February. Some of you may recall me talking about a walk that I worked on last February and how amazing that experience was. I cant wait to do it again.

The Walk To Emmaus is a 3 day spiritual retreat that focuses on God's love and Grace, as well as our responsibility to live as Christians. Its hard to describe, as it much more than a retreat, but I can honestly say that I learned more about the love of Chirst from my first walk than from anything else I had ever experineced. I am really excited to get a chance to get to work one again and help guide others through this amazing experience.

Has anyone here ever done a walk?

 

[auntpolly]

I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted."

Wonderful! But I have to highlight this one, because it always reminds me of my Grandma, who has passed. Her minister said this at her funeral. Because she always humbled herself, and was one of the best people I ever knew.

 

[lmhall2000]

Whew! So many threads going in different directions that I'm having a hard time keeping up! I appreciate all the posts because I do feel sincerely that in our human struggle with sin and being separated from God through that sin that we are all here to reconcile that....a good thing.

As far as "Desperate Housewives"...Phillipians 4:8 Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent or praiseworthy-think about such things.

For Cardaway...I don't know ya, but I feel you're a pretty decent guy...sometimes these threads while trying to defend or protect the beliefs we read in the Bible can become contentious. We can't take it personally but actually when I read the "caddy" or "catty" (don't know how to spell it) comments that folks even well-meaning folks slip in there...I just try to avoid or ignore that post.

For Aunt Polly...oh dear yes, we do love our enemies...is it not out of love that we reprimand our children? When our children do evil (Trade Center), is it not out of love that we correct them? Did God not love the Israelites time and time again even when they raised the golden calf, grumbled at the gift of manna, doubted His power? Was it not loving of him to not allow them to enter the Promised Land? Loving does not mean that we should tolerate or endure bad behavior, yet we should stand for protecting life and ending tyranny in countries where these children are raised to revere death. Look at all the "idols" tolerated in our country today...we've lost the skill of how to love and still honor God.

Buckalew...an easier way to view the fat lady v. the gay lifestyle...is that one is not promoting it and one is. If a fat lady were touting that she was PROUD and Willingly following a lifestyle that dishonors her temple...then yes, she is in the same boat as the gay person. For the gay person that struggles with the lifestyle and freely admits that it is not in God's design and tries to seek God's help...then that is different. I was a fat lady at one time (now I'm just considered generally overweight (20 pounds)....sure I had all the excuses...I was in a car accident that ruined my lower three discs in my back...being third in a 5 car pile-up at 60 mph will do that. So when I became pregnant and my back went out...I could not stay active..I was nauseous for 38 weeks and food was the only relief from that nausea. Over 3 pregnancies in 4 years I put on 80 pounds...but I NEVER believed that it was what God designed for me. I did not believe that God would be pleased with how my temple had become flabby and not highly useful for His work. All sins are equal but when we claim that our sin is "allowed" then that goes directly against God.

I feel like I'm missing something else but I tried to keep up..you guys are a good group of folks and I gain alot of insight from reading.

Tara

 

[auntpolly]

For Aunt Polly...oh dear yes, we do love our enemies...is it not out of love that we reprimand our children?



Tara

So you kick their Bibles around when you kids disobey and say you don't care?

 

[disneymom3]

AuntPolly, Jesus is highly revered in the Muslim faith. They believe that he was a prophet sent by God to spread a holy message. Unlike Christians, Muslims believe that there were several prophets, with Mohammed being the most important.

In many ways, Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

I really don't get this though. How can they revere Jesus while not believing who he was. He said he was the Son of God. He said I am the I am. There is no doubt that Jesus believed He was God only Son and that he did not teach that he was a prophet but that He was the one and only. So, either, he was nuts, he lied and was deceiving people, or he was telling the truth. How can someone who you don't believe what he taught and said about himself possibly be revered?

I am not attacking--I sincerely don't get how one can mesh these together.

lmhall--interesting post. Some definite food for thought there.

I am not familiar with the I don't care thread and it sounds like one I want to stay away from.

As for Desperate Housewives and the like, I think you have to go on your inner feelings when you watch shows like that. The Phillipians verse does come into play, but at the same time, I don't read all Christian writers and when it comes to TV there is probably nothing that would fit that criteria. I think if a show is making you feel debased or uneasy then it is not a show you should watch. I don't put Desperate Housewives in the same class as say Jerry Springer or that show on MTV where those kids travel around together and supposedly live a real life. Anyway, I don't think I am making my point, so I will give up now!

 

[auntpolly]

I really don't get this though. How can they revere Jesus while not believing who he was. He said he was the Son of God. He said I am the I am.

For them he is a very holy prophet. We say "son of God" - what does that mean anyway? He's not a son in the same sense that we are.

I think sometimes we are really saying much the same thing but using different words.

 

[auntpolly]

I have to say this, and it's going to sound mean and judgemental, but I really have to say it. (Flame suit -- and the grace of God --ready!)

What good is endless threads about Christian songs and the moment you were born again if we don't try to listen to what Jesus said and stand against the people who mock them?