Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[ford family]

Ah well, to discuss this further would be to distract from the point you were actually trying to make with the post, and its a point I agree with. I beleive Walts own words speak clearly of his faith, but I am happy to agree to disagree.

Works well for me, thanks.

I'd better move on before I am moved on.

ford family

 

[caitycaity]

A TRUE (born again) belief in God will lead to every attempt to lead a good life. You mention the 'gift of life'.... Well, if a person believes that we are all just here by chance, evolution, etc.. and that we all just die, and that is it... I guess I do not see how they could completely appreciate what a wondrous gift our life is! Once a person becomes a true believer, they become so humbled and thankful, and they truly see that GOD is right... It is not a matter of 'towing a strait line' 'doing good works' etc... out of a feeling of necessity... A person lives a good life and does good works because God is in their heart, and because they know that this is what is right!!! It is not a necessity whatsoever.

in my case, i do appreciate the "gift of life." i sincerely appreciate it every day. i give thanks for it every day. i do not do good deeds out of a feeling of necessity or because the jones are doing it anymore than you do it just so you can "get into heaven." i do not have god in my life, but i am compelled to do good deeds because i believe in making the world a better place, and i put my money (and time) where my mouth is. i get the impression you think only people who believe in god can give happily and without feeling obligated by something. this is simply untrue.

 

[WDWHound]

Albertan mom

If a person leads a clean and saintly life, should they not be accepted into heaven on merit of their use of the gift of life?

Many people argue that to lead a good life is to believe in God whilst belief in God does not always lead to a good life.



Rich::

Rich I have a couple of answers for you, Jesus taught that we are not saved by works, but rather by faith, lest anyone should boast The gift of salvation is free. To get into heaven by good works would be require someone earn a free gift.

As to beleiving in God, I think there is a difference between believing in God and accepting the gift of salvation. Jesus tells us that we shall know those who have accepted the gift by their fruits. In this he is referring to what God does through those that follow him. These fruits are often what we would call Good works, but they are a result of accepting the gift, not a way to earn the gift.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Albertan mom]

I think it would be exhausting to always wonder if my deeds are good enough- is this going to get me to heaven? Ok, I am good today. Ooops-I messed up and sinned-now I am in trouble, going to hell. OK, helped a lady across the street with her groceries-wooohoo heaven-here I come!.........
I am so glad to know that I am going to heaven. Not because I am perfect and sinless-but becaue God is good, Jesus paid my price. Not leading a pure life, doing good deeds, tithing, helping the needy.
Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven (John 3:16)

AuntieM03-I bought that book for my dad for Christmas a couple of years ago, He is a big Lord of the Rings fan, and a stumbling christian! He really enjoyed it.

 

[dcentity2000]

Rich I have a couple of answers for you, Jesus taught that we are not saved by works, but rather by faith, lest anyone should boast The gift of salvation is free. To get into heaven by good works would be require someone earn a free gift.

As to beleiving in God, I think there is a difference between believing in God and accepting the gift of salvation. Jesus tells us that we shall know those who have accepted the gift by their fruits. In this he is referring to what God does through those that follow him. These fruits are often what we would call Good works, but they are a result of accepting the gift, not a way to earn the gift.

Does that make any sense?

It makes perfect sense, thanks once again WDWHound

I'm gonna chime in here with many others in expressing actual delight at this thread and how it has managed to stay so civil and on target; I'm learning new things at a rate of knots and actually feel very comforted by the many insightful posts from all concerned.



Rich::

 

[WDWHound]

I think it would be exhausting to always wonder if my deeds are good enough- is this going to get me to heaven? Ok, I am good today. Ooops-I messed up and sinned-now I am in trouble, going to hell. OK, helped a lady across the street with her groceries-wooohoo heaven-here I come!.........
I am so glad to know that I am going to heaven. Not because I am perfect and sinless-but becaue God is good, Jesus paid my price. Not leading a pure life, doing good deeds, tithing, helping the needy.
Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven (John 3:16)

AuntieM03-I bought that book for my dad for Christmas a couple of years ago, He is a big Lord of the Rings fan, and a stumbling christian! He really enjoyed it.

Yup, as Zippa pointed out recently, God has made it wonderfully simple. You don't have to be rich enough to buy it, smart enough to figuire it out on your own, work hard enough to earn it or Good enough to deserve it. You simply have to do that which everyone is born able to do, beleive and accept the priceless gift that is offered for free.

 

[Albertan mom]

Good Christian Authors?
Who are some of your favorite writers? I really enjoy:
Karen Kingsbury
Lori Wick
Francine Rivers
Beverly Lewis
Linda Windsor
Deborah Raney

I like romances, heartjerkers, heartwarmers, suspense. Nothing scary!
Any suggestions?
I really love the Redemption series by Karen Kingsbury, highly reccomend it

 

[disneymom3]

I love love love Lori Wick!!

I also really like Terri Bradshaw. I especially like that she was a romance writer before she came to Christ and then went back and rewrote all of her books with a Christian slant. Actually, I am not sure if she became a Christian or became convicted that God would have her use her gift in a different way.

I also like Dee Hendersen. I am a big mystery fan and hers are good ones.

 

[Otto's Doll]

The Redemption series by Karen Kingsbury is very good. I also love Lori Wick's contemporary novels ~ Pretense and Sophie's Heart are my favorite books. I enjoy Francine Rivers, Janette Oke, Deborah Bedford and Beverly Lewis as well.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

Regarding the works righteousness issue, I am relieved every day that God is infinitely more fascinated by who I am than what I do. Sure, what I do is hopefully consistent with what God desires from disciples of Jesus Christ, but what I am and what I am becoming is even more meaningful.

 

[saucymb]

Good Christian Authors?
Who are some of your favorite writers? I really enjoy:
Karen Kingsbury
Lori Wick
Francine Rivers
Beverly Lewis
Linda Windsor
Deborah Raney

I like romances, heartjerkers, heartwarmers, suspense. Nothing scary!
Any suggestions?
I really love the Redemption series by Karen Kingsbury, highly reccomend it

Thanks for this list. I'm goignt o the library tomorrow and plan to look for some of these authors!

 

[binny]

For comedy I LOVE Chonda Pierce! ( I can see myself in His Eyeballs)

 

[bytheblood]

I know there are varied opinions on the tribulation as per denomination/doctrine etc. I tend to lean to the pretrib view......from what I understand of the scripture. The only thing that bums me out about that is I think it would be so cool to see Jesus coming in the clouds on the white horse like the book of Revelations explains but I guess if you where here when it actually happens it would be pretty scary.

I used to be a post-tribber, now a pre-tribber. I have taken a Revelation class in Bible College where I attend and have viewed all of the beliefs about pre, mid and post. Pre makes the only sense from a Bible perspective. The other two make the immanence of Christ a lie (which we know is not) and would also make "no man knows the day or the hour" a lie because a post-trib rapture would allow you to know the exact day. The Desocration would give it away.

If you want to read a good book that is very factual and not bias or finger pointing, I suggest The Revelation of Jesus Christ by John Walvoord.

As far as seeing Jesus on a white horse in the clouds, you will see it because you and I and all other children of God will be with Him.

What an amazing sight.......
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

[Albertan mom]

I will have to try Chonda Pierce-never heard of him before.
I also enjoyed the YadaYada prayer group, and the YadaYada prayer group Gets Down. They were very funny and interesting. How 12 so different women could relate, bond and pray for each other. There is another one that just came out, haven't read it yet, I am on the hold list at the library for it.

 

[bytheblood]

Yup, every last one of us are sinners. An God loves us all equally. While I do beleive homsexaulity is a sin ......., it is neither my responsiblity or desire to force others to agree with me, or to ask them to change their behavior based on my interpretation of the Bible. I certainly would not say someone is damned for it in any case. I happily leave that kind of judgement in Gods hands (not that anybody would or should care about my judgement in such matters). No human being has the right or abilty to attempt to determine what lies after death for another.

You said exactly what I was going to say. But I do want to add to that....

Rick, you are welcome here and please do not feel that you are unwelcome, unaccepted or unwanted. Regardless if you think somebody has made a terrible choice, you disagree with their choice or you just cannot see eye-to-eye on a subject does not make them any less of human. For the record, my best friend is gay and I love her with all of my heart. My brother is also gay and he means the world to me.
I have watched my brother hurt because my dad hates him now that he knows he is gay. It has been very hard for me to watch my brother hurt and try to pretend like it does not bother him.
It makes me mad at my dad because he wants me to side with him and gives me that, "But your a Christian and you know God's word." My answer, "I know that God tells us to love the sinner and hate the sin", so with that being said, I do not pass judgement on you or anybody else because I have my own sins that I am accountable for.

 

[bytheblood]

Albertan mom

If a person leads a clean and saintly life, should they not be accepted into heaven on merit of their use of the gift of life?

Many people argue that to lead a good life is to believe in God whilst belief in God does not always lead to a good life.



Rich::

In the sight of God, our works (good deeds) are like filthy rags...interpreted, unacceptable.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


When Jesus was called "good", he asked "why do you call me good, none is good but God."
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
He was not denying that He was good, however.

If we could be good and get into Heaven, Jesus' death on the cross was unnecessary. To bypass grace and say that we must be good and saintly to be acceptable by God in addition to the FINISHED work on the cross is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not good enough. When Jesus said, "It is finished", that is exactly what He meant.

 

[binny]

I will have to try Chonda Pierce-never heard of him before.
I also enjoyed the YadaYada prayer group, and the YadaYada prayer group Gets Down. They were very funny and interesting. How 12 so different women could relate, bond and pray for each other. There is another one that just came out, haven't read it yet, I am on the hold list at the library for it.

Chonda is a woman (think Shanda) she is a Christian Comediane

 

[JoyG]

I like christian chick lit by Kristen Billerbeck...What a Girl Wants, She's Out of Control and With This Ring are in the "Ashley Stockingdale Series"...light reading, page turners, funny, romantic...like a christian version of Bridget Jones' Diary.

Joy

 

[AuntieM03]

The Redemption series by Karen Kingsbury is very good. I also love Lori Wick's contemporary novels ~ Pretense and Sophie's Heart are my favorite books. I enjoy Francine Rivers, Janette Oke, Deborah Bedford and Beverly Lewis as well.

I got hooked on Janette Oke in high school.

 

[septbride2002]

I tend to disagree with this.

How many people who are unbelievers have all said, "What matters is that we live a good life, care about others, etc..." They very strongly take offense at the Christian belief that we are saved through Grace. So, it is obvious that to live a good life is NOT necessarilly related to a belief in God.

A TRUE (born again) belief in God will lead to every attempt to lead a good life. You mention the 'gift of life'.... Well, if a person believes that we are all just here by chance, evolution, etc.. and that we all just die, and that is it... I guess I do not see how they could completely appreciate what a wondrous gift our life is! Once a person becomes a true believer, they become so humbled and thankful, and they truly see that GOD is right... It is not a matter of 'towing a strait line' 'doing good works' etc... out of a feeling of necessity... A person lives a good life and does good works because God is in their heart, and because they know that this is what is right!!! It is not a necessity whatsoever.

It is the classic example of putting the cart before the horse....

I much prefer this to the ideologies that offer no concrete covenant, only the never ending struggle to work harder, be more pure, etc.. etc....

I think this is the main difference between the Catholic faith and the "born again" faith. As a Catholic we do believe that our actions do have consequences. Which is why I might add - I find Catholics to be a little bit more free thinking when it comes to heaven/hell/ and purgatory. One of the most important ideas of the bible - is love thy neighbor - when we act against our neighbor God knows. Which is also why we have confession or reconciliation. We go to our priest and confess our sins (or at least the ones we remember) and we are then forgiven for all of our sins. Then we start over. So to whomever said it would be to hard to keep track of good vs. bad - you don't really have to. You to can be forgiven in the Catholic Church. But believing in God and acknowledging Jesus Christ is your saviour is not "good enough" in terms of the Catholic ideaology. You also have to work at being a good person.

~Amanda