Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[septbride2002]

Oh and by the way, yup, anything you say can and will be used in a public forum - weeks, months, years later.

Especially if it was scandulous

~Amanda

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Especially if it was scandulous

~Amanda

 

[WDWHound]

Especially if it was scandulous

~Amanda

Or if it involved the singing ability of the Phantom of the Opera. (That thread just kept coming back from the dead over and over again).

 

[ford family]

Originally posted by live4christp1 (from a song).
When the fool said in his heart, there is no God, he rejects the truth God painted on the canvas of the night. Atheism has never created an artistic masterpiece, never healed a fatal disease or calmed a fear. Atheism has never still given answers to our existence, peace to a troubled mind or even dried a tear.

Unbelievers you might have heard of, are they all worthless fools?
Abraham Lincoln
Albert Einstein
Aldous Huxley
Andrew Carnegie
Isaac Asimov
Ernest Hemingway
Charles Darwin
Benjamin Franklin
Carl Sagan
Bertrand Russell
Billy Joel
Elisabeth Cody-Stanton
Voltaire
Galileo
Freiderich Nietzsche
George Bernard Shaw
Gloria Steinam
Helen Keller
James Madison
Karl Marx
Leo Tolstoy
Napoleon Boneparte
Jawaharlal Nehru
James Joyce
Walt Disney
Frank Lloyd Wright
Irving Berlin
Charles Schulz
Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain"
Robert Frost
Susan B Anthony
Vincent Van Gough
Thomas Jefferson
William Howard Taft
Thomas Edison
Sigmund Freud
Percy Bysshe Shelley
Noel Coward
Albert Camus
Jean Paul Sartre


ford family

 

[disneymom3]

ford family--I think you are missing the point of this thread. It is not a debate. If you have some genuine questions, there are many folks on here that would be more than happy to answer them. People have agreed that that part of the song is off base. However, the point of posting the words to the song in the first place was not to debate the merits of atheism. Would it be possible to move on now??

 

[WDWHound]

Unbelievers you might have heard of, are they all worthless fools?
Abraham Lincoln
Albert Einstein
Aldous Huxley
Andrew Carnegie
Isaac Asimov
Ernest Hemingway
Charles Darwin
Benjamin Franklin
Carl Sagan
Bertrand Russell
Billy Joel
Elisabeth Cody-Stanton
Voltaire
Galileo
Freiderich Nietzsche
George Bernard Shaw
Gloria Steinam
Helen Keller
James Madison
Karl Marx
Leo Tolstoy
Napoleon Boneparte
Jawaharlal Nehru
James Joyce
Walt Disney
.
.


ford family

Just a note. Many of these peopel were aitiest and I do not consider them fools, However, you might want to check you source as there are errors on this list. Walt Disney, for example, was a congreagtionalist and very much beleived in God. Quoting Walt here:

"I am personally thankful that my parents taught me at a very early age to have a strong personal belief and reliance in the power of prayer for Divine inspiration. My people were members of the Congregational Church in our home town of Marceline, Missouri. It was there where I was first taught the efficacy of religion... how it helps us immeasurably to meet the trial and stress of life and keeps us attuned to the Divine inspiration... Deeds rather than words express my concept of the part religion should play in everyday life. I have watched constantly that in our movie work the highest moral and spiritual standards are upheld, whether it deals with fable or with stories of living action. This religious concern for the form and content of our films goes back 40 years to the rugged financial period in Kansas City when I was struggling to establish a film company and produce animated fairy tales. Many times during those difficult years, even as we turned out Alice in Cartoonland and later in Hollywood the first Mickey Mouse, we were under pressure to sell out or debase the subject matter or go "commercial" in one way or another. But we stuck it out... Both my study of Scripture and my career in entertaining children have taught me to cherish them... Thus, whatever success I have had in bringing clean, informative entertainment to people of all ages, I attribute in great part to my Congregational upbringing and my lifelong habit of prayer"

there are some other names on there that don't belong (Helen Keller for example, who emabrace the religious pilosophys of Swedenborg). Your point is valid, but you may not want to place much faith in the site that posted this list.

 

[Albertan mom]

From what I read, Charles Darwin actually became a Christian on his death bed. Interesting hey......
He admitted that with all the work he did, he couldn't believe that he could actually convince other people, because he couldn't even convince himself.
He admitted there is a God, and asked for fogiveness....
Wonder if we will see him in Heaven?

Thank God our God is a God of second chances.....

(and grace, and mercy...)

 

[dcentity2000]

From what I read, Charles Darwin actually became a Christian on his death bed. Interesting hey......
He admitted that with all the work he did, he couldn't believe that he could actually convince other people, because he couldn't even convince himself.
He admitted there is a God, and asked for fogiveness....
Wonder if we will see him in Heaven?

Thank God our God is a God of second chances.....

(and grace, and mercy...)

Albertan mom

If a person leads a clean and saintly life, should they not be accepted into heaven on merit of their use of the gift of life?

Many people argue that to lead a good life is to believe in God whilst belief in God does not always lead to a good life.



Rich::

 

[binny]

"True Blue Christian" Thanks Rick, thats just about the nicest compliment anyone could give me and my greatest goal in life.



Im proud to call you friend, Rick. I think youre a great guy with a huge heart! We differ on some beliefs but who doesnt?


I am so grateful that this hasnt become (for the most part) an attacking thread on either side. It seems to me this is the way its supposed to be. People acepting each other, sharing beliefs and supporting one another.

 

[ford family]

From http://www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org
Walter "Walt" Disney, American cartoonist, showman, and film producer (1901-1966).
I had one report that Disney was non-religious. Apparently, he was not a member of any religion and did not attend services. Also, he apparently had an entirely secular funeral. It was "very private" and off-limits to the press, perhaps to conceal it was not religious. There is no "In God we Trust" on Disney Dollars.

ford family

 

[WDWHound]

ford family

Yup. I've seen the claims. But Walt himself never claimed to be an Aitheist, in fact he did quite the oposite, as the quote I post showed. Did you know he brought in a minister to bless Disneyland on opening day? Its on the TV broadcast of the opening day, right before Walts famous "To all who come to this happy place.." speech.

Heres another Disney Quote
"Every person has his own ideas of the act of praying for God’s guidance, tolerance, and mercy to fulfill his duties and responsibilities. My own concept of prayer is not as a plea for special favors nor as a quick palliation for wrongs knowingly committed. A prayer, it seems to me, implies a promise as well as a request; at the highest level, prayer not only is a supplication for strength and guidance, but also becomes an affirmation of life and thus a reverent praise of God."

Walts take on religion was refreshingly different, but he was no atheist.
Not that it really matters, as lots of the people you listed were indeed clearly atheists who made huge contributes to mankind.

 

[ford family]

ford family--I think you are missing the point of this thread. It is not a debate. If you have some genuine questions, there are many folks on here that would be more than happy to answer them. People have agreed that that part of the song is off base. However, the point of posting the words to the song in the first place was not to debate the merits of atheism. Would it be possible to move on now??

Sorry?
I wasn't debating , I was correcting an incorrect (and offensive) statement that someone put in their post.

And before you move me on, why isn't my question considered "genuine" anyway?

ford family

 

[caitycaity]

re: walt's funeral - you can have a secular funeral and not be atheist. my grandma and grandpa had completely secular... memorial services (not funerals as they were cremated), and neither of them were atheists.

 

[Albertan mom]

Just a great website I wanted to suggest to you all:

family.org

It is Focus on the Familys website, with Dr. James Dobson. It answers tons of questions (way better then I ever could) and has a spot where you can actually write in and ask too.

I really respect Dr. Dobson and my beliefs are right along the same lines as his.

I also love the Plugged In section, where you can check out movies. Love that, so I can see what movies are like before I take my kids to them/rent them.
We subscibe to Plugged In magazine, it is great.

Have a good day. Now I really need to go clean my house. Really.

 

[ford family]

Did you know he brought in a minister to bless Disneyland on opening day? Its on the TV broadcast of the opening day, right before Walts famous "To all who come to this happy place.." speech.

Yes, but it was his neice's husband and I've never said Walt wasn't a big believer in families.

from http://www.adherents.com/people/pd/Walt_Disney.html
Walt's brother Herbert had a daughter named Dorothy and she married a minister, Glenn Puder. It was at Walt's request that the Reverend Puder delivered the invocation at Disneyland's grand opening on July 17, 1955. Represented at the dedication were Catholic, Jewish and Protestant faiths.

(and disneymom3, this is a discussion, not a debate.)

ford family

 

[WDWHound]

Yes, but it was his neice's husband and I've never said Walt wasn't a big believer in families.



(and disneymom3, this is a discussion, not a debate.)

ford family

Ah well, to discuss this further would be to distract from the point you were actually trying to make with the post, and its a point I agree with. I beleive Walts own words speak clearly of his faith, but I am happy to agree to disagree.

 

[dcentity2000]

Sorry?
I wasn't debating , I was correcting an incorrect (and offensive) statement that someone put in their post.

And before you move me on, why isn't my question considered "genuine" anyway?

ford family

Honestly, you're taking this too far and coming over rather strong. The quote was from a song of the heart, not a mechanism of the mind.



Rich::

 

[AuntieM03]

Just a great website I wanted to suggest to you all:

family.org

It is Focus on the Familys website, with Dr. James Dobson. It answers tons of questions (way better then I ever could) and has a spot where you can actually write in and ask too.

I really respect Dr. Dobson and my beliefs are right along the same lines as his.

I also love the Plugged In section, where you can check out movies. Love that, so I can see what movies are like before I take my kids to them/rent them.
We subscibe to Plugged In magazine, it is great.

Have a good day. Now I really need to go clean my house. Really.

My brother used to work at Focus before they moved to Colorado. A guy that I had a huge crush on when I was in high school is one of the higher ups at Focus. He also wrote a book (I think it is called Finding God In The Lord Of The Rings)

 

[Wishing on a star]

If a person leads a clean and saintly life, should they not be accepted into heaven on merit of their use of the gift of life?

Many people argue that to lead a good life is to believe in God whilst belief in God does not always lead to a good life.

Rich::

I tend to disagree with this.

How many people who are unbelievers have all said, "What matters is that we live a good life, care about others, etc..." They very strongly take offense at the Christian belief that we are saved through Grace. So, it is obvious that to live a good life is NOT necessarilly related to a belief in God.

A TRUE (born again) belief in God will lead to every attempt to lead a good life. You mention the 'gift of life'.... Well, if a person believes that we are all just here by chance, evolution, etc.. and that we all just die, and that is it... I guess I do not see how they could completely appreciate what a wondrous gift our life is! Once a person becomes a true believer, they become so humbled and thankful, and they truly see that GOD is right... It is not a matter of 'towing a strait line' 'doing good works' etc... out of a feeling of necessity... A person lives a good life and does good works because God is in their heart, and because they know that this is what is right!!! It is not a necessity whatsoever.

It is the classic example of putting the cart before the horse....

I much prefer this to the ideologies that offer no concrete covenant, only the never ending struggle to work harder, be more pure, etc.. etc....

 

[AuntieM03]

Honestly, you're taking this too far and coming over rather strong. The quote was from a song of the heart, not a mechanism of the mind.



Rich::

Very well put