Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[live4christp1]

Okay--so we started homeschooling and for religion we are using the Golden Children's bible. We read the story--and then DD illustrates and retells.

So excuse my novice confusion.....

We are reading about Cain and Able. Eve is the mother of ALL living things. I thought they were the first humans. Cain kills his brother--God is upset with him..he leaves to a neighboring land and marries. Now if Eve is the mother of ALL living things....where did Cain's wife come from?

This is my first adventure into the Bible as a whole and first from a Bible geared towards children. So I've never studied these stories before.

HELP!


Thanks .

There is one obvious answer to your question......we don't like to think about it and we don't talk about it much.....to us it is just, well, and makes us and

Any ideas what the answer is?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There is one obvious answer to your question......we don't like to think about it and we don't talk about it much.....to us it is just, well, and makes us and

Any ideas what the answer is?

Seriously looking for an answer....BUT I catch your drift (I think).

 

[live4christp1]

Seriously looking for an answer....BUT I catch your drift (I think).

Cain's wife was his sister.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Okay I have a little story, DS was with us this weekend and we went over to MGM (oh for those who don't know, I have a stepson and stepdaughter, but I hate the word step, because we are all family, when I married their dad I married them as well). DS' mom doesn't take them to church or any religious instruction except for when it's time to make the Sacraments. When we have the kids we do take them to church (and boy do they complain, but that's another story for another day). Anyway, DS was asking about Adam and Eve,he asked how they came to be. We explained that God created Adam and then created Eve from Adam, that God was their (and our) Father. So then he asked about their kids, and how did Adam and Eve's kids have more kids? Fun conversation. Long story short, he said that DH and I shouldn't be married because we are related.

 

[WDWHound]

We are reading about Cain and Able. Eve is the mother of ALL living things. I thought they were the first humans. Cain kills his brother--God is upset with him..he leaves to a neighboring land and marries. Now if Eve is the mother of ALL living things....where did Cain's wife come from?

I have heard several possible explanations for this. A lot depends on whether you are a litteralist or not. One explanation, and the one I tend to accept, is that the story of Adam and Eve was never meant to be taken as literal history, but rather as a description of the nature of man. If this is true, than we would expect to find inconsitancies, since the story was not focused on historial acuracy.

Many Chirstians take a literal view of this story, and I have heard couple possible explanations that would fit a literal interpretation, neither of which could be proved or disproved.

1) The people from a neighboring land were also decendants of Eve. This would mean Cain was marrying a sister or neice. If this is true, the additional children of Eve are never mentioned in the Bible.

2) God created other people after Adam and Eve. There is absolutley nothing in Geneisis that says this in not possible, but if it he did create others, it is never mentioned.

When you think about it, these are really the only options availble under a literal interpretation. Those folks in the neighboring village had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere had to be either Adam and Eve, or God.

 

[live4christp1]

Lisa Loves Pooh

I just went out and got my study Bible (I'm at work) and this is what it says concerning Genesis 4:16-17: Nod (were Cain went) means "wandering," "exile". It was an area east of Eden. His wife. Obviously a daughter of Adam. She may have been Cain's sister, niece, or even grandniece. Since Adam's and Eve's genetic systems had no mutant genes in them, such a marriage would not be dangerous as it is today.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Lisa Loves Pooh

I just went out and got my study Bible (I'm at work) and this is what it says concerning Genesis 4:16-17: Nod (were Cain went) means "wandering," "exile". It was an area east of Eden. His wife. Obviously a daughter of Adam. She may have been Cain's sister, niece, or even grandniece. Since Adam's and Eve's genetic systems had no mutant genes in them, such a marriage would not be dangerous as it is today.

Thanks---I just had a "HUH" moment....b/c A&E had 2 sons....one killed the other....then he went off and got married....and then they say Eve had more kids. I just immediately wondered--hey, where'd that wife come from????

First time studying---though at the Kindergarten level...I'm sure I'll pop in with more questions and disconnects. Though for a kids Bible--it is pretty good.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I have heard several possible explanations for this. A lot depends on whether you are a litteralist or not.

Thanks--as explained above....they left out the part where Adam and Eve had other children...Cain left and later had a wife....then they mention that Eve had lots more kids.

I had always assumed that there was co-mingling between sibs and cousins for a while...but the wife popped up out of nowhere.

 

[live4christp1]

Thanks---I just had a "HUH" moment....b/c A&E had 2 sons....one killed the other....then he went off and got married....and then they say Eve had more kids. I just immediately wondered--hey, where'd that wife come from????

First time studying---though at the Kindergarten level...I'm sure I'll pop in with more questions and disconnects. Though for a kids Bible--it is pretty good.

One thing we have to slow down and think about in that passage also, it doesn't read this way.....as it is a history and geneology, is that Cain and Abel weren't born as adults as Adam & Eve were created and obviously Cain didn't kill Abel when they were 2 year olds.....it is relatively safe to say they were young adults when this happened. When you think about it that way, it is easy to see that Adam and Eve probably had many more children in that time frame.......the Bible doesn't usually list girls and not all the male descendents are always listed.

 

[WDWHound]

Thanks--as explained above....they left out the part where Adam and Eve had other children...Cain left and later had a wife....then they mention that Eve had lots more kids.
Oops. I screwed up.
I had always assumed that there was co-mingling between sibs and cousins for a while...but the wife popped up out of nowhere.

I had said earlier that there was no mention of other children of Adam and Eve and I was wrong....

" When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. " (Genesis 5: 3-5)

This comes after the mention of Cain taking a wife in the Bible, but it also comes in a section that is summing up Adams entire life, so it could still fit chronologically. If I were to take a litteral approach, this explanation seems the most likely.

 

[live4christp1]

I had said earlier that there was no mention of other children of Adam and Eve and I was wrong....

" When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died. " (Genesis 3: 3-5)

This comes after the mention of Cain taking a wife in the Bible, but it also comes in a section that is summing up Adams entire life, so it could still fit chronologically. If I were to take a litteral approach, this explanation seems the most likely.

Yes, that is Genesis Chapter 5....it never tells us how old he was when Cain was born as Cain being the oldest would have been the one the geneology went through but he was cast out or exiled.....thus in the abscense of Abel that responsibility falls to Seth. Notice that Seth was 105 years old before he begat Enos and Enos was 90 years old before.....etc......

I think this points to the conclusion that Adam and Eve had many more children before the time that Cain would have come of age to take a wife.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Thanks all! The Children's Bible didn't go into detail--but if they don't discuss the further descendants until later--and this was compressed down to one paragraph--it makes some sense of how it was presented.

Thanks for clearing this up.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Yes, that is Genesis Chapter 5....it never tells us how old he was when Cain was born as Cain being the oldest would have been the one the geneology went through but he was cast out or exiled.....thus in the abscense of Abel that responsibility falls to Seth. Notice that Seth was 105 years old before he begat Enos and Enos was 90 years old before.....etc......

I think this points to the conclusion that Adam and Eve had many more children before the time that Cain would have come of age to take a wife.

As I mentioned elsewhere,Jewish Midrash says that Cain and Abel both had twin sisters,whom they married...Just throwing that in the pot

 

[WDWHound]

As I mentioned elsewhere,Jewish Midrash says that Cain and Abel both had twin sisters,whom they married...Just throwing that in the pot

Thanks for the info. Jenny.

Midrashes like this intrigue me. In many ways, they seem to fulfill the role that tradition plays in the Christian Church. I believe Ounderstand the purpose and origin of Midrashes, but like some of the traditions in Christian treachings, they seem to pull things out of the Torah that I just don't see present in it. Exegesis is such a tricky business.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Thanks for the info. Jenny.

Midrashes like this intrigue me. In many ways, they seem to fulfill the role that tradition plays in the Christian Church. I believe Ounderstand the purpose and origin of Midrashes, but like some of the traditions in Christian treachings, they seem to pull things out of the Torah that I just don't see present in it. Exegesis is such a tricky business.

You have to remember though,that for a Jews it doesn't have to come out of the written Torah..It can come from the Oral Torah(Talmud) which is on equal footing with Torah..Trying to understand Judaism without looking at the Talud,is like trying to understand Christianity without using the New Testament. I'm not neccessarily speaking to the Cain/Abel issue,but to Jewish theology in general

 

[WDWHound]

You have to remember though,that for a Jews it doesn't have to come out of the written Torah..It can come from the Oral Torah(Talmud) which is on equal footing with Torah..Trying to understand Judaism without looking at the Talud,is like trying to understand Christianity without using the New Testament. I'm not neccessarily speaking to the Cain/Abel issue,but to Jewish theology in general

I understand that and I do respect it, but its a little hard for me to get my head around sometimes. For that matter, I have a tough time understand the emphisis on tradition in many Christian churches (especially the catholic church). I understand that the Jewish understanding grants works of interpretation and exegesis equal footing with the Torah, but its a very different way of viewing things than most Protestants use. I guess it all depends on where you see God guiding the process and what his role in that process is. I think Christians and Jews understand this differently.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I understand that and I do respect it, but its a little hard for me to get my head around sometimes. For that matter, I have a tough time understand the emphisis on tradition in many Christian churches (especially the catholic church). I understand that the Jewish understanding grants works of interpretation and exegesis equal footing with the Torah, but its a very different way of viewing things than most Protestants use. I guess it all depends on where you see God guiding the process and what his role in that process is. I think Christians and Jews understand this differently.

And I think your understanding of that understanding is on target <G>

 

[pogopossum]

while we are on the topic of OT mysteries, i was in a discussion with a guy the other day who said that time must have been different for God because it says that Methusaleh lived for over 900 years and this proves that the time to create the world took longer than seven days. i told him that my understanding was that the original plan was for man to live, i guess infinitely, after sin entered the world the world got progressively more hostile to man and we began to live for less time, as was part of the punishment.

 

[Trixielexi]

Checking in I have not read the book i will ask my mom if she will buy me it lol but this is great i used to not be anything i used to be agnostic but in April when my Poppa (my grand father)died and my best friend Lizzy died my step father is dieing of colon cancer there might be hope still!!and my mom is getting sick she has ashtma and diabetes and my sister has diabetes too.so this is really great for me I am in love with you now thank you very much

 

[live4christp1]

while we are on the topic of OT mysteries, i was in a discussion with a guy the other day who said that time must have been different for God because it says that Methusaleh lived for over 900 years and this proves that the time to create the world took longer than seven days. i told him that my understanding was that the original plan was for man to live, i guess infinitely, after sin entered the world the world got progressively more hostile to man and we began to live for less time, as was part of the punishment.

That is what I believe pogopossum......up until Adam & Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge....I think everything was pretty much right with the world, no weeds, etc.....you notice after that when they are put out of the garden that it says they would have to work against these things. As more sin entered the world it increasingly shortened the life span.