Booking Frustration!

[lopo]

Yes, I know that there are 1000s of us that weren't able to travel and/or simply couldn't use our DVC points due to the pandemic, but I am wondering if that is the root issue that has resulted in no availability whatsoever or very limited availability. Since I've never had any points to rent out (I am definitely always borrowing from the next UY), I never paid much attention to members renting their points, but recently I've seen so many members advertising rentals and learned that there are many companies that provide rentals (Previously, I knew of David's but now I know of at least another 5 that seem to be legit.) Honestly, it seems that there are lots of folks who are making a living renting out points. These observations have got me wondering if DVC will be able to put the brakes on this or even if they should. I do know that some HOAs in the greater Orlando area do not allow owners to rent their properties regularly. My frustration is that I rarely plan time at the DVC properties 9 months out (and I think I only booked 11 months out twice in 15 years.) However, it seems that it is very difficult to book anything at the 4-6 month window. I am grateful that Disney offers us waitlist options but, frankly, it is difficult to book reasonable airfare without a confirmed reservation (or you risk losing your $$ since most airlines do not allow changes, etc.) Basically, I am thinking out loud but I'd be interested in hearing other members' thoughts (without any meanness, of course.)

 

[Sandisw]

People who are renting points are simply using their own points for other guests,

The companies are nothing more than a go between. They out owners and renters together.

Regardless, renting doesn’t change things because only an owner can book the room so you are still competing against someone else who has the same rights to book that room.

DVC is becoming harder and harder for last minute trips…those being 4 to 6 months out.

I am sorry it’s been frustrating but the next few years will be just as tough as there are so many extra points around for owners to use, or rent out when they can’t go themselves.

 

[Marionnette]

Yes, I know that there are 1000s of us that weren't able to travel and/or simply couldn't use our DVC points due to the pandemic, but I am wondering if that is the root issue that has resulted in no availability whatsoever or very limited availability.

Since I've never had any points to rent out (I am definitely always borrowing from the next UY), I never paid much attention to members renting their points, but recently I've seen so many members advertising rentals and learned that there are many companies that provide rentals (Previously, I knew of David's but now I know of at least another 5 that seem to be legit.) Honestly, it seems that there are lots of folks who are making a living renting out points.

These observations have got me wondering if DVC will be able to put the brakes on this or even if they should. I do know that some HOAs in the greater Orlando area do not allow owners to rent their properties regularly.

My frustration is that I rarely plan time at the DVC properties 9 months out (and I think I only booked 11 months out twice in 15 years.) However, it seems that it is very difficult to book anything at the 4-6 month window. I am grateful that Disney offers us waitlist options but, frankly, it is difficult to book reasonable airfare without a confirmed reservation (or you risk losing your $$ since most airlines do not allow changes, etc.) Basically, I am thinking out loud but I'd be interested in hearing other members' thoughts (without any meanness, of course.)

There are limits to the number of points that can be in a single membership. In addition, commercial renting as defined by DVC would involve exceeding 20 reservations or more in a 1-year period. These limits were put in place precisely because there were individuals who were renting on a regular basis without actually staying at a DVC resort.

There is an uptick in rentals right now due to international owners not being able to use their points for themselves and domestic owners who still have misgivings about travel at this time. FWIW, anyone renting out thru the brokers is not making money. They're pretty much breaking even or even losing money.

But if you are continually seeing no availability (or very little) at 4 months out, don't blame owners who are renting their points. You are way late to the party at 4 months out.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

Mind you I say this as someone who books immediately at 11 months most of the time...
But there's nothing to stop people who can't plan that far out with certainly from taking their best
guess and then modifying or canceling later as long as you're not borrowing points and make sure to
cancel longer out than 30 days so points don't go into holding.
That would by my suggestion: book something in the 7-11 month window and you can always punt it / move it / cancel it.

 

[ldo]

That is what I do-take my best guess and then modify or cancel later.

 

[Donna M]

I agree with the above. It sounds like in your situation, if able to book something around when you think you can go and then cancel if you have to. Nothing to lose that way. Just don't forget you made a reservation if you have to cancel.

 

[Flynn's Gal]

Mind you I say this as someone who books immediately at 11 months most of the time...
But there's nothing to stop people who can't plan that far out with certainly from taking their best
guess and then modifying or canceling later as long as you're not borrowing points and make sure to cancel longer out than 30 days so points don't go into holding.
That would by my suggestion: book something in the 7-11 month window and you can always punt it / move it / cancel it.

This is almost exactly what I was going to write. I just made a summer 2022 reservation not knowing if I'll even keep it. I'd rather have something on the books and cancel or modify than wait and be out of luck.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Mouse]

Sorry to disagree with some of you. I understand that it is getting difficult to book a vacation. But making a reservation that you don't intend to keep just makes it more difficult for others (me) to get the vacation that they
really want. I have been very disappointed the last few years (pre-pandemic). I am in a position where I can't book a vacation so far out and find more and more that I can't book when my situation allows me to. That wasn't always the case.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I’ve read that Disney now takes available inventory about 3 months out and rents for cash— pure profit for them. I’m not sure why they think they are allowed to do that.

 

[JETSDAD]

I’ve read that Disney now takes available inventory about 3 months out and rents for cash— pure profit for them. I’m not sure why they think they are allowed to do that.

That's not a new thing....that's breakage and is right in the rules. Members get a portion but most goes to DVC. Breakage is inventory not booked at 60 days but they can also anticipate breakage.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

That's not a new thing....that's breakage and is right in the rules. Members get a portion but most goes to DVC. Breakage is inventory not booked at 60 days but they can also anticipate breakage.

Right but I read that with the last couple of years they extended the dates out, so that they are renting “breakage” that is not actually “breakage.” The amount they are now renting out is far beyond any minuscule amount they pass onto dvc.

 

[JETSDAD]

Right but I read that with the last couple of years they extended the dates out, so that they are renting “breakage” that is not actually “breakage.” The amount they are now renting out is far beyond any minuscule amount they pass onto dvc.

There is a cap on the amount of breakage income that they pay back and that cap is hit every year so we know they've been making a lot on breakage all along. Nobody knows how much they are making as we only see the amount paid back to the resorts in the budget each year. The breakage period can be set anywhere from 30-90 days and those rooms will be used for various reasons (cash rentals, maintenance, etc).

 

[Flynn's Gal]

Sorry to disagree with some of you. I understand that it is getting difficult to book a vacation. But making a reservation that you don't intend to keep just makes it more difficult for others (me) to get the vacation that they
really want. I have been very disappointed the last few years (pre-pandemic). I am in a position where I can't book a vacation so far out and find more and more that I can't book when my situation allows me to. That wasn't always the case.

Just to clarify, I didn't say I don't intend on keeping the reservation. I said I don't know if I'll keep it. In all likelihood, I will, unless I find another resort at 7 months that has availability and is more appealing. Owning at BCV almost guarantees that I will not be able to book if I don't get something in the 8-11 month window. I'm sorry your situation doesn't allow you to book that far in advance. I imagine it is frustrating. I hope it gets better when the excess point situation cools down.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry to disagree with some of you. I understand that it is getting difficult to book a vacation. But making a reservation that you don't intend to keep just makes it more difficult for others (me) to get the vacation that they
really want. I have been very disappointed the last few years (pre-pandemic). I am in a position where I can't book a vacation so far out and find more and more that I can't book when my situation allows me to. That wasn't always the case.

I will admit, I am guilty of holding a few reservations early on. Some of my family and friends don’t always know if they can join until later so I book just in case.

I know it’s frustrating for owners who can not book that way but I want to have all my potential trips secured where I want them and book 11 months in advance for that reason.

I am fortunate to have the points to do so. I will say that last minute booking..3 to 4 months out…is getting harder and harder and has changed a lot since I joined in 2009…which is why I book the way that I do.

 

[Shelly F - Ohio]

UK owners have last years points and this year points to rent out. I know of someone who has 31 dvc contracts he is renting out. Yep 31 from last year and 31 contracts from this year. And there are lots of folks who own lots of contracts with points from last year they need to use or loose.

 

[CWTC]

We’ve always booked at least 10 months out- part of the deal with DVC and booking windows is the ability to plan. Or accept that rooms might not be available. I once tried to add 2 days to our BCV reservation at month 10 and there was no availability. It’s just part of the deal. But it all worked out - we picked up two nights at one of the boardwalk garden cottages instead.

 

[crisi]

There is an uptick in rentals right now due to international owners not being able to use their points for themselves and domestic owners who still have misgivings about travel at this time. FWIW, anyone renting out thru the brokers is not making money. They're pretty much breaking even or even losing money.

I don't think that's true. My BWV points right now are "paid for" in that the capital I put in returned itself in "savings" on rooms at least five years ago. So, I'm at the point in my membership where my costs are dues. So at less than $8 a point in dues, and a $15+ payout from a broker, I'm not losing money.

Someone who bought recently direct and is in a position of needing to rent might be barely breaking even or perhaps losing money. But anyone who bought decades ago is doing fine renting.

(Renting is still not IMHO a good investment or way to make money, but not because you don't make money, because there are better ways to do so).

But, to the OPs point, they are my points and I get to use them. If I use them to book a room and stay there, or to put friends in it, or rent it out, or to book it and let it sit empty, that's my business. DVC has never had good availability 4-6 months out - and as far as I know, no timeshare does.

 

[tjkraz]

Right but I read that with the last couple of years they extended the dates out, so that they are renting “breakage” that is not actually “breakage.” The amount they are now renting out is far beyond any minuscule amount they pass onto dvc.

Got a source you want to share? How reliable is this information?

 

[crisi]

Sorry to disagree with some of you. I understand that it is getting difficult to book a vacation. But making a reservation that you don't intend to keep just makes it more difficult for others (me) to get the vacation that they
really want. I have been very disappointed the last few years (pre-pandemic). I am in a position where I can't book a vacation so far out and find more and more that I can't book when my situation allows me to. That wasn't always the case.

Personally, I wouldn't do that. I also wouldn't rent my BWV points out during the last quarter of the year, when BWV is in high demand, nor would I book a standard view room as a rental. My points will rent for a preferred view room in April just as easy as they'd rent for a Standard View in October - with less hassle for me.

But, members get to use the system and take advantage of the process and rules. I don't "walk" reservations and I don't think its polite...but enough people do walk reservations that if I really needed a BWV standard view room, I'd walk it starting as far out as I felt was reasonable. I can't police any one else's behavior, ESPECIALLY if its within the rules (and I have honestly little ability to police their behavior outside the rules unless I'm there and want to call security about someone's towels hanging over the balcony).

 

[jade1]

OK right now I just booked BCV for March 1 and 2, it should work out fine as I think we will be in town then. But honestly it was simply because of scarcity.