Board Title (Please Read)

[invisible_children07]

You made another assumption about me. Just because I said I am queer, does not mean that I am gay. I am queer, meaning that I enjoy the company of either or a man or a woman. It is a way for me to say, I like people. A bit edgier and radical, I am reclaiming the word from its historically negative connotation.

I do not think that everyone hates me, but I must approach every space differently, to see what is going to go down. I see every space as a learning opportunity, but i need to know what people think, their acceptence levels, etc. You can not automatically assume that every gay and lesbian space is trans and bi okay, just like you can not automatically assume that every gay and lesbian space is racially okay. To turn your head and say that this is a problem is what is causing our community to turn against each other. That is why we need a title change. To let everyone know they are welcome. Otherwise, we are failing as a community and oppressing ourselves further just like the majority wants.

 

[invisible_children07]

"If that was the board title on the DIS, I wouldn't be on it, unless it had a similar friends and family tag like this board does. I doubt that I would post there much. Honestly, I doubt that too many people would....I could be wrong of course."

This is privilege at its finest. Look. There are so many more Gays and Lesbians out there, we are the majority so obviously we would never need a space for a minority, such as trans people.

Open your eyes. The same logic is used to keep down any other minority. There aren't that many of a people of a group so obviously they aren't important enough to have their own space or even to share ours. God forbid we acknowledge that we are inclusive of others.

The most privileged of individuals is too blind to see that they have any at all. I would kill to just have to worry about gay marriage.

I have issues with traveling because of my name, the legality of my gender. I have trouble because my ID doesnt look like me, has a name on it that doesnt match what I go by. I face harassment at Disney World because society assumes what my gender is. It would be nice to be able to feel like I could come to this space and talk about the problems and things that happened to me in Disney World, if it ever did.

However now I feel like, if I came here, based on your logic, my issues would be lumped into a category unfit

 

[paigevz]

This thread is quite an education.

May I say that I don't think anyone is trying to oppress anyone?

And may I also say that I don't think anyone is asking for some major thing?

It's as if someone has asked for a gate on the other side of the fence. Then someone says, well why do you need a gate over there? There's a fine gate on this side, just come around. Then the one who wants the gate says, you are refusing to let me in by making me come around, obviously you don't really want me in there if you want to make me come all the way around.

So come on guys/gals/folks, either tear down the fence, make the darn gate, or let's all walk around.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

You made another assumption about me. Just because I said I am queer, does not mean that I am gay. I am queer, meaning that I enjoy the company of either or a man or a woman. It is a way for me to say, I like people. A bit edgier and radical, I am reclaiming the word from its historically negative connotation.

Well, my definition of a transman who calls himself queer, means that he is gay. In my life experience, anyone that is queer is gay, not bisexual, which is more what it sounds like you are shooting for as a sexual orientation. As for calling yourself queer because it's edgier and radical..... Let the word die and leave the hate attached in the past. It's not a wound that is going to heal anytime soon.

To turn your head and say that this is a problem is what is causing our community to turn against each other. That is why we need a title change. To let everyone know they are welcome. Otherwise, we are failing as a community and oppressing ourselves further just like the majority wants.

There is nothing to change that makes any sense to change. There is no reason to feel excluded. You are making a huge mountain out of a mole hill at best. There is no gender or sexual orientation oppression going on here. Quite frankly, I think you are being something that I was once......young and self centered with an idea that you are going to "radically change the world". There is nothing wrong with being in that phase of your life, but trust me, most of us grow out of it and someday turn into grumpy adults that just don't give an rat's behind about the desires of young, self centered teenagers. If I dislike you in any way shape or form, it's for being too much like me when I was just a dumb kid.....God, I was a pain in the buns.

 

[paigevz]

I was wondering about the use of the word queer, but then I was wondering about the use of the starred out word too.

 

[hematite153]

It would be nice to be able to feel like I could come to this space and talk about the problems and things that happened to me in Disney World, if it ever did.

However now I feel like, if I came here, based on your logic, my issues would be lumped into a category unfit

Tyler, I hope that you will reconsider this assessment. I believe that if you came here to discuss problems you encountered at WDW then you would receive a mostly supportive welcome.

However, as with any internet conversation (or any life conversation, for that matter) you will likely also encounter people who disagree with you and cannot understand your perspective.

I do my best to remember that these disagreements are part of what makes life interesting. After all, if everyone were the same and thought the same then this board wouldn't exist at all.

Well, my definition of a transman who calls himself queer, means that he is gay. In my life experience, anyone that is queer is gay, not bisexual...

I was wondering about the use of the word queer, but then I was wondering about the use of the starred out word too.

I have heard queer used by male/female/FTM/MTF/elf/etc. I have heard it used by "straight" people who live outside standard society in communes or regularly barter for goods, etc. I have heard it used in the contexts described in the previous posts. Etc.

As I said before, I think that it is important to let people define themselves and not to apply labels, or meanings to labels, that are not their own.

I don't really care which labels you choose to apply to yourself, but, I will try to use them as you do. (Hence, I will call someone a "fairy" or "the word I'm not allowed to use" if they introduce themselves that way even though I think that one is offensive and PghLybrt thinks that the other is offensive.)

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

The most privileged of individuals is too blind to see that they have any at all. I would kill to just have to worry about gay marriage.

I have issues with traveling because of my name, the legality of my gender. I have trouble because my ID doesnt look like me, has a name on it that doesnt match what I go by. I face harassment at Disney World because society assumes what my gender is. It would be nice to be able to feel like I could come to this space and talk about the problems and things that happened to me in Disney World, if it ever did.

However now I feel like, if I came here, based on your logic, my issues would be lumped into a category unfit

First thing, everyone's life has static. No one has the perfect life. We all have issues to deal with.

Oh, I wish all that I had to worry about was the issue of gay marriage too. I have a partner that travels for a living and is often confused by the masses for being male. She has been cussed at by little old ladies in airport ladies restrooms and had restaurant staff treat her poorly because of this too......case in point, her last trip to TN took her through Memphis. She chose to go check out Neely's BBQ, from the same folks that are on the Food Network show Down Home with the Neely's. They refused to wait on her. I have no idea why exactly. She did look particuarly butch that day. She was seated and then no one would wait on her. They shot her dirty looks as they walked past her table to serve other customers, but they would not serve her and after 45 minutes of this, with managers looking on, she walked out. I have to worry about my partner being stuck at sites in areas of the country where homosexuals are notoriously treated poorly, like Salt Lake City, where she has been for the past week and a half. The only bright spot in her time there was finding a Disney Character Outlet store there. I have to worry about my job because I live and work in the south with children. I live in a will to work state. If my boss got it in her head to fire me tomorrow because she didn't want any lesbians working in the office, I could be let go just like that because our state has no protection for GLBT folks. Corey's company is very friendly to the GLBT community and has a large percentage of the staff that is family. I have to worry about what happens when Corey or I die. We have to work extra hard and spend a bunch of money to work out legal protections for the one left behind. We have to pay more money for our insurance because we can't put it all on one policy. We have concerns when we hire any sort of service provider for our home because we never know if we will be safe, if our home will be respected, and if we are going to receive the best service from the provider if he/she figures out we are lesbians and chooses to give us substandard service. There are more ways that our lives could suck, but I won't bore you with them.

Basically, you are not the only one with issues, so realize that and know that the people that you so freely judge as privileged are not living as easily as you would like to believe.

If you post here, you will be heard. You would even be welcomed. But, to come here and dump this stuff about the board title not being inclusive enough with barely any posts under your belt and even fewer posts here on this board, well, it comes across as a bit self centered and trolly to me.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

As I said before, I think that it is important to let people define themselves and not to apply labels, or meanings to labels, that are not their own.

I don't really care which labels you choose to apply to yourself, but, I will try to use them as you do. (Hence, I will call someone a "fairy" or "the word I'm not allowed to use" if they introduce themselves that way even though I think that one is offensive and PghLybrt thinks that the other is offensive.)

I agree that labeling other people/judging other people is not a good thing. However, the word queer, around my area, during my life's experience has been used for mostly gay men to define thier sexual orientation and/or been used as a derogatory term. So, when I hear the word queer, I think gay man. Let's not forget that the meaning has to be considered from the perspective of the person who's saying it and the perspective of the person that is hearing it.

The first time I heard the word Phat, I was not seeing the spelling and in the way the word was used, I didn't know that it was a slang term that mean roughly....cool. I heard that it was Fat, which left me perplexed and wondering what in the world the kid meant by it. I didn't know if he was making a derogatory statement or what.

Context and perspective folks, you can't take those out of the equation.

 

[invisible_children07]

im done with the argument and the disboards

i will not be called a dumb kid by anyone. I am not a dumb kid. that is the most adultist thing anyone has ever said to me. Just because you are an adult doesn't mean that you are any smarter than me.

sorry that you don't feel like this is more of an issue than it actually is. Sorry that you feel the way that you do. I'm sorry that you say the things that you do and maybe one day you will realize how you actually hurt people.

sorry for trying to bring about positive change.

 

[invisible_children07]

and furthermore

i have been on this board ever since I was 13. Started under the handle of disnee15, had thousands of thousands of posts, many many people knew me on the teen board and some of my best friends have come from here. The DIS is something that is really important to me so don't call me a troll or self centered because you don't know me or have any freaking right to say things like that.

 

[invisible_children07]

and furthermore on top of that. If you really truly believe that I am a crazy radical youth that can't change the world then that is just really sad. People like you are the reason things AREN'T changing. Just because you failed as a youth and never accomplished the things that you wanted to, don't put that on me. I will change things. You don't know me. I'm going to change things. Maybe not the world. But things are already changing, no thanks to you

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

Wow.....

Adultist.....

Go get'em kid.

 

[smartestnumber5]

That is why I suggested that we should change the name and the tag line and make it a sub-forum of the CB.

ITA. I've always felt this board really belonged on the CB since that is the vast majority of what gets discussed here.

I do see where being a college student or a teen necessitate the need for separate boards, because what appeals to a teenager or college student doesn't always appeal to a 40 year old or a senior citizen. Those boards are fine with me as they keep the kids out of my hair, so to speak. I like kids, but I don't want to hang around with them any more than my life already necessitates.

What exactly is there at Disney that is interesting to teens or college students but not 40 year olds or senior citizens? If all of the boards under "Trip Planning" need to be named according to issues that come up at Disney, then I don't see any explanation for the teen board at all. I count only 1 thread on the first page that has anything to do with Disney. I've gone to Disney as a kid, as a teenager, as a college student, as an adult and with middle aged parents. The age changes have never made any difference to what we are interested in.

But how does that affect how you tour the parks or how much you like Dumbo? Remember, technically, this is still a board about Disney?!?!? So, I fail to see how your inner thoughts are going to affect your Disney experiences so differently from what a lesbian might experience.

It is the KEY to the way this forum is named. Again, the DIS is a Disney themed messageboard. This forum is tagged as a place for us to gather and discuss our Disney Experiences. How on Earth can you not see that?

I see the tag line. I also see that it is just false that what goes on here is primarily talking about Disney. If it were, I would never come here. I don't have any questions about Disney and gay issues. Honestly I don't see how there could be more than a handful of threads if the only or even primary topic of conversation were gay issues at Disney. The way this board appears to function is as a place which is inclusive and welcoming to people who are on the "not straight" spectrum and straight people who are interested in talking about "not straight" issues or just who like to joke around and have fun (i.e. your thread about lawn decorations which, by the way, is hilarious). I generally only come to this board to see what people are talking about gay-related, NOT to see what is going on gay-Disney related (generally there is NOTHING going on gay-DISNEY related; after all, how many times can the same question--"Will we get stared if we are holding hands in Magic Kingdom?" be asked and answered?) I also come here as a kind of escape from the sometimes lack of inclusiveness on the community board. But if the tagline of a place for gay people, family and friends to talk about Disney is going to be expected or enforced, I can go right on back to the community board and stay there, because I do not have any Gay/Lesbian-Disney questions (nor any Bi-Disney questions).

hmmm.....wasn't that the point! Being bi with a same sex partner isn't all that different from the lesbian experience at WDW. Imagine that. As for the part of you that is invisible....the part that is attracted and can be intimately connected to a man, right? Um, how is that going to affect how you tour the parks or how much you enjoy Dumbo?

So here are two scenarios:

1) I'm in line for Dumbo with the wedding ears on with my partner. The opposite-sex couple in front of me starts up a conversation with me--"Oh where are the grooms?" they ask in all seriousness? I explain, "Actually there are just us two brides." They laugh and say, "No really?" We just look at them strangely and then they get it and say "Oh, so it's not a *real* wedding." They laugh and turn around and whisper amongst themselves while shooting me dirty looks.

2) I'm in line for Dumbo with the wedding ears on while my partner is in the bathroom. The same-sex couple in front of us turns around and says, "Oh are you too on your honeymoon?" We say yes, and they gush, "Oh we're lesbian brides too! It's so nice to meet some other lesbians on our honeymoon." I smile and say, "Well actually I'm bisexual, so it's not really a "lesbian" wedding." They just laugh and say, "Oh yeah bisexual--that's funny." I look at the confused and after a few awkward seconds they say, "Uh, are you serious? I think bisexuality is just a layover on the way to gayvillle." Then they turn around and shoot dirty looks on their shoulder while laughing at us.

Given I have many more anti-bi things said to me in my daily life than anti-gay or anti-lesbian things, if I were to have concerns about Disney they'd likely be about bi-ness more than lesbian-ness.

In all honesty I have never had any problems being a same-sex couple or bi at Disney. None.

If that was the board title on the DIS, I wouldn't be on it, unless it had a similar friends and family tag like this board does. I doubt that I would post there much. Honestly, I doubt that too many people would....I could be wrong of course.

Oh I totally think if any change happens the "family and friends" tag should stay.

The reason that I don't think that Trans or Bi necessarily belongs in the title is because the tag line welcomes everyone anyway! Why mess with the title if the tag line says family and friends are welcome? I don't see how this particular stand is politically correct or incorrect, it just makes sense to leave it alone. It's not broken, so there is no need to fix it.

The tagline welcomes family and friends of gays and lesbians. There are lots of gays and lesbians in the world who are NOT at all welcoming to trans and bi folks. I don't see that the tag line gives any indication at all that this particular board is one in which people are accepting of trans or bi folk. (I'm not saying the board is unwelcoming. I have, in fact, found the board welcoming in this way. I'm just saying that I don't see how that tag gives any indication one way or the other.)

I am ok with changing the board name. I am ok with changing the tagline. I just don't see any real need to keep the current tag line and add trans or bi to the title. It's just pointless because there are not enough issues differences to warrant the change. IMO

If the worst you can say about changing the board name is that it is pointless, why object to it? If it will make other people feel more included and it will not in anyway be a negative thing to anyone, why argue against it so strongly?

I personally didn't put much thought at all into the name of the Board. I am used to everyone assuming I am a lesbian and assuming there are only two sexual orientations. I know that, for the most part, people don't intend to be exclusive. I tend to just go with the flow about it. But I have to say I find your posts are a great example of why it might be important to have a board title which is very upfront about being inclusive. It seems in post after post of yours that you are telling bi and trans people how we ought to feel and that if we don't agree with you we are simply overreacting or being politically correct. Do you enjoy it when straight people tell you how you as a gay person ought to feel? Do you not see that you are doing to bi and trans people the exact same thing that straight people do to gay and lesbian people all the time on these boards?

Since we are doing quotes, I find this one apt: "The degree of their resistance is a measure of your oppression."

 

[NYBlue1]

ITA. I've always felt this board really belonged on the CB since that is the vast majority of what gets discussed here.



What exactly is there at Disney that is interesting to teens or college students but not 40 year olds or senior citizens? If all of the boards under "Trip Planning" need to be named according to issues that come up at Disney, then I don't see any explanation for the teen board at all. I count only 1 thread on the first page that has anything to do with Disney. I've gone to Disney as a kid, as a teenager, as a college student, as an adult and with middle aged parents. The age changes have never made any difference to what we are interested in.







I see the tag line. I also see that it is just false that what goes on here is primarily talking about Disney. If it were, I would never come here. I don't have any questions about Disney and gay issues. Honestly I don't see how there could be more than a handful of threads if the only or even primary topic of conversation were gay issues at Disney. The way this board appears to function is as a place which is inclusive and welcoming to people who are on the "not straight" spectrum and straight people who are interested in talking about "not straight" issues or just who like to joke around and have fun (i.e. your thread about lawn decorations which, by the way, is hilarious). I generally only come to this board to see what people are talking about gay-related, NOT to see what is going on gay-Disney related (generally there is NOTHING going on gay-DISNEY related; after all, how many times can the same question--"Will we get stared if we are holding hands in Magic Kingdom?" be asked and answered?) I also come here as a kind of escape from the sometimes lack of inclusiveness on the community board. But if the tagline of a place for gay people, family and friends to talk about Disney is going to be expected or enforced, I can go right on back to the community board and stay there, because I do not have any Gay/Lesbian-Disney questions (nor any Bi-Disney questions).



So here are two scenarios:

1) I'm in line for Dumbo with the wedding ears on with my partner. The opposite-sex couple in front of me starts up a conversation with me--"Oh where are the grooms?" they ask in all seriousness? I explain, "Actually there are just us two brides." They laugh and say, "No really?" We just look at them strangely and then they get it and say "Oh, so it's not a *real* wedding." They laugh and turn around and whisper amongst themselves while shooting me dirty looks.

2) I'm in line for Dumbo with the wedding ears on while my partner is in the bathroom. The same-sex couple in front of us turns around and says, "Oh are you too on your honeymoon?" We say yes, and they gush, "Oh we're lesbian brides too! It's so nice to meet some other lesbians on our honeymoon." I smile and say, "Well actually I'm bisexual, so it's not really a "lesbian" wedding." They just laugh and say, "Oh yeah bisexual--that's funny." I look at the confused and after a few awkward seconds they say, "Uh, are you serious? I think bisexuality is just a layover on the way to gayvillle." Then they turn around and shoot dirty looks on their shoulder while laughing at us.

Given I have many more anti-bi things said to me in my daily life than anti-gay or anti-lesbian things, if I were to have concerns about Disney they'd likely be about bi-ness more than lesbian-ness.

In all honesty I have never had any problems being a same-sex couple or bi at Disney. None.



Oh I totally think if any change happens the "family and friends" tag should stay.



The tagline welcomes family and friends of gays and lesbians. There are lots of gays and lesbians in the world who are NOT at all welcoming to trans and bi folks. I don't see that the tag line gives any indication at all that this particular board is one in which people are accepting of trans or bi folk. (I'm not saying the board is unwelcoming. I have, in fact, found the board welcoming in this way. I'm just saying that I don't see how that tag gives any indication one way or the other.)



If the worst you can say about changing the board name is that it is pointless, why object to it? If it will make other people feel more included and it will not in anyway be a negative thing to anyone, why argue against it so strongly?

I personally didn't put much thought at all into the name of the Board. I am used to everyone assuming I am a lesbian and assuming there are only two sexual orientations. I know that, for the most part, people don't intend to be exclusive. I tend to just go with the flow about it. But I have to say I find your posts are a great example of why it might be important to have a board title which is very upfront about being inclusive. It seems in post after post of yours that you are telling bi and trans people how we ought to feel and that if we don't agree with you we are simply overreacting or being politically correct. Do you enjoy it when straight people tell you how you as a gay person ought to feel? Do you not see that you are doing to bi and trans people the exact same thing that straight people do to gay and lesbian people all the time on these boards?

Since we are doing quotes, I find this one apt: "The degree of their resistance is a measure of your oppression."

What a well thought out and eliquent post..bravo

I really hope everyone is learning some positive things from this thread and some new ways to see things that effect our community , that being the LGBT communinty. We cant defeat ourselves, enough people trying to do that to us!

OP you better not try and leave here, you have opened some great dialog and brought up some pretty important issues that effect our community from within on a daily basis. Tyler you hear me?

 

[smartestnumber5]

I was wondering about the use of the word queer, but then I was wondering about the use of the starred out word too.

I've found people have widely different feelings about these words. Many people find queer offensive, but I really like it because it has so many uses.

For one thing there is the academic discipline of "queer theory". I think this use of the word is really celebrating the idea that glbt folks (some of them at least) really are "deviant" (because "normal" is just a socially constructed view that has nothing behind it). Queer theorists tend to be suspicious of the idea of fixed and unchanging orientations and challenges essentialist ideas of sex and gender.

I've also heard queer used as an umbrella term meaning anything on the non-straight spectrum. Essentially it's a less bulky way of saying "LGBTQ."

Another use of the word is for people who do not identify as L G B or T. A lot of people who might generally fit the "bi" category, for instance, don't like the term "bi" because it implies that there are two and only two sexes which isn't true (there are intersex people or trans people who are not actually transitioning from one sex to the other, but prefer to keep some bodily characteristics of each sex). I'm very sympathetic to the reasoning for this use of the word, but I find it's just easier for people to understand if I use the word "bi." (I pretty much feel that I am attracted to people regardless of their sex/gender, same as I am attracted to people regardless of whether they are right handed or left handed. I think sex/gender just are not important. So in some ways it is really strange to have an sexual identity which emphasizes my being attracted to both sexes/genders, when in fact from my point of view sex/gender is absolutely irrelevant.)

I understand that some people find the term offensive and I wouldn't use it for them in those cases. I find in academia, given there is a discipline with that name and all, people are generally okay with the term.

I suspect age has something to do with how one feels about these terms too. I think that the use of "queer" as an epithet against GLBT people might have been something that was a bit before my time so that might be why I don't have such bad feelings towards it. I also just tend to be in favor of "taking back" words that are used to hurt. There's a certain word for female genitalia that many women find really hard to hear used, but I really like the word. I used to have a button on my bag that said it when I was in college. I think that was definitely generational.

 

[smartestnumber5]

OP you better not try and leave here, you have opened some great dialog and brought up some pretty important issues that effect our community from within on a daily basis. Tyler you hear me?

Yes I agree--OP don't leave. Just take a little breather if needed.

Maybe we should a thread talking about trans and/or bi issues (not necessarily Disney related) in particular? I've got a funny story about how my therapist keeps making comments indicating that she thinks since I'm bi that I might leave my partner at any minute to hook up with a man!

Oh I just saw you're minoring in queer theory. Do you go to a large university? My undergraduate college was really small and they didn't have any program for queer theory or gay and lesbian studies. We had this one tiny GLBTQ group in which almost half of the members were straight--there were just so few of us. And I graduated in 2004!

 

[hematite153]

the word queer, around my area, during my life's experience has been used for mostly gay men...

Wow! Around my area and in my life experience I have heard queer used for just about everything. But, if I were to identify the one referent that it gets the most it would be bi women. We must run in completely different worlds (except for this one of course).

Started under the handle of disnee15

Hey, I remember you now! Thanks for the info.

 

[Timon-n-Pumbaa Fan]

The issue of the board name change is one that, since it has been brought up as a topic of discussion, deserves to be talked about. I am not in favor of it, because I really don't think that it's needed, if it is to stay where it is on the DIS. I think that all of the, for lack of a better way of putting it, "special interests" at Disney forums need to be moved from Planning to the CB as sub forums, because they are mostly social groups. Exceptions, the UK folks because the have a variety of issues and most of them really are planning related and possibly the Latino board. I can only assume since there is a large Spanish speaking population outside of the US that visits WDW each year, that they most likely have a good bit of planning stuff to discuss over there, but I don't speak or read Spanish, so I have no idea for sure.

I like to talk stuff out. I like to learn what makes people tick. This has been a great source of fun for me having this discussion over the past day or so. It made Corey being away not so hard to take since I had something new and exciting to keep me occupied. I have enjoyed this a great deal.....even if some people didn't quite know how to take me. No offense or oppression was meant at all. I am about as open minded as they come, even at my age. I may have given into grumpy adulthood, but I still love a good conversation.

 

[hematite153]

Maybe we should a thread talking about trans and/or bi issues (not necessarily Disney related) in particular? I've got a funny story about how my therapist keeps making comments indicating that she thinks since I'm bi that I might leave my partner at any minute to hook up with a man!

Urghhh!!! I hate this view. I find that I always say, "I'm in a monogamous marriage" rather than simply saying "I'm married" because of the misconceptions people spew back at me when I say that I am married but still bi.

I also think that this viewpoint delayed my ability to come out properly for about a decade. The only people who'd been willing to speak with me openly (and positively) about bisexuality were also poly but pretty much connected the two as one and the same. Since I wasn't poly I figured I couldn't be bi.

Sorry--OT there.

 

[padalyn]

Whew - well I think the flames are out finally <patting self down to be sure>

I felt a little blasted there for a few posts. Sorry to offend people with a choice of words - but that seems to be what the whole thread is about.

I hope that Tyler doesn't really go away; this is really a lively thread for ideas and commentary.

As someone who identified as BI for a while I completely understand the prejudice felt. One is not accepted by either community, which is sad. We as a group should not shut anyone who is "not straight" out. The 'regular' lesbians told me I was confused, that I was fence sitting - make up my mind and get out of the lesbian groups until I did so. The "straight" community just called me crazy and experimenting. Both groups were un-accepting and unwilling to help me. I felt alone, abandoned and unwanted - not the least bit happy and very depressed. It took a long time for me to recover and to this day I refuse to associate with many groups because of the bias I felt.

I have identified as lesbian. Not because I "made up my mind" as I was told to do - it took me a few years to accept myself and the process was not easy. During that time, I tried relationships with both genders (since the prior ones with men had failed horribly I am not really sure why I subjected myself to them again - but I did!) once I realized that the relationships with women were better I was able to accept me.

I am lucky - not everyone has the support of friends and family to make that transition. OR they realize that they identify with both sides and have to live in the grey world between. That is not fun or easy. My heart goes out to people who live in that world...I hope that this thread will always remain friendly to any who don't live in the heterosexual world. What ever your identification or relationships are.

Now...everyone put down your flame blasters for a minute (please??). Why do we use the word ‘straight’ for folks who identify as heterosexual? To that end - are the rest of us "not straight" folks "bent" or "crooked" or some other word? Please...it is a word. Yes I asked that the D word not be applied to me. I realize that others like that word, and would use it if asked. I personally feel it doesn't apply to me and prefer to not be addressed by or with it. I also don't like the C term much either. But, all in all they are just words.

If we want to go around blasting labels then we should never have embraced the pink triangle as a symbol of unity. Geez talk about a negative symbol and label (literally!).

OK - I am going to climb back into my fire retardant suit now ....