BLT dues/taxes/maintenance fees

[CarolMN]

I doubt #2 and #3 are true.
Restaurants are supposed to support themselves, plus make a profit. The maintenance on the restaurant is paid by the restaurant, not Member fees.
There will be a line item in the budget for front desk staff. It's probably not a huge difference if it's separate from the CR.

MG

I agree with you. If DVC members have to pay a portion of the cost of the restaurants, then we should get a portion of the revenue, too. (And we know that doesn't happen, lol).

DVC members will definitely pay a share of the cost of the front desk and other CR amenities that support BLT. For example, if BLT guests have access to the CR pools, members will pay a portion of the pool costs. That's how it works at the other DVC resorts that share amenities with a hotel.

MG - Nice to see you around again. You must have been busy!

 

[ajseagles3]

Thanks, all, for the great responses! I am one very informed OP now!

 

[DisneyWalker44]

Thus, even if its overall costs of operation break down to the same amount (or even higher) per unit as other resorts, the amount allocated per point is going to be lower. Thus, dues per point should remain lower than other resorts.

It's clear this is the main reason for the lower dues. It's also clear the guides have been specifically told not to mention it (wouldn't want to remind people of the high points/night) and make up other reasons.

 

[DenLo]

:
Thus, even if its overall costs of operation break down to the same amount (or even higher) per unit as other resorts, the amount allocated per point is going to be lower. Thus, dues per point should remain lower than other resorts.

It's clear this is the main reason for the lower dues. It's also clear the guides have been specifically told not to mention it (wouldn't want to remind people of the high points/night) and make up other reasons.

Since BLT is a "condo" type building it's costs for groundskeeping is also way lower than other DVC resorts. Also only having only two pools to maintain (BLT and CR's), that would lower the expenses. Think of how many pools SSR and OKW have. Having been actively involved in a high rise condo and a townhome association(s) in the past, those costs really add to the budget.

All of the items people have been listing are used to keep the MF lower and not having the exact figures I don't see how anyone can say one specific reason is why the dues are lower.

 

[DVCPAT]

Resort restaurants and attractions cause a lot of wear & tear and raise energy consumption through out the resort in general. BLT is the first resort that restricts access to unauthorized visitors. Reduced resort traffic and its very small foot print will make it the most efficient DVC resort to date. Its really a great set-up being restricted and located in the middle of WDW.

 

[YourEveryDayAdam]

Since BLT is a "condo" type building it's costs for groundskeeping is also way lower than other DVC resorts. Also only having only two pools to maintain (BLT and CR's), that would lower the expenses. Think of how many pools SSR and OKW have. Having been actively involved in a high rise condo and a townhome association(s) in the past, those costs really add to the budget.

All of the items people have been listing are used to keep the MF lower and not having the exact figures I don't see how anyone can say one specific reason is why the dues are lower.

Agreed. A lot of people have no idea just how expensive good landscaping can be. Especially to maintain it in such a lush, rich and well groomed way. It requires constant care from many skilled laborers. It aint cheap.

Here's the biggest costs according to the public offering statement:

Administration and Front Desk: $987,120
Housekeeping: $1,218,700
Insurance: $229,179
Maintenance: $724,160
Management Fee: $709,366
Member Activities: $301,189
Transportation: $301,730
Utilities: $555,630
Roof Replacement: $294,390 (per year in to a capital reserves fund)
Interior Refurbishment: $1,383,316 (per year in to capital reserves)
External Building Painting: $300,234 (per year in to capital reserves)

A big one I can see right away is Roof Replacement. All those villas under just one roof. So, lets say your average DVC resort has 3 floor under each roof. BLT has 15 floors under each roof. So, by extrapolation, other DVC resorts have about 5 times as many roofs (per unit) than BLT. So, multiply that cost by 5.
External Building Painting is probably saving some money. One building, and less surface area, per villa, to paint. I'd say you could double that cost for other DVC resorts, per unit.
Utilities will also be lower, given that BLT is a modern building that has more efficient insulation. The windows are probably more efficient because they need to be for being a hi-rise. Also, less doors to the outside (per unit) than most DVCs and less surface area to the outside (per unit). I imagine this cost is about 1.5 to 2 times the cost at other DVC resorts per unit.
Finally, maintenance: General maintenance should be about the same, per unit, as other DVC resorts. Since I didn't see a specific line item about groundskeeping, I am guessing that groundskeeping is coming from the general maintenance budget. So I imagine that general maintenance with groundskeeping would go up about 30-50% with the additional grounds that other DVC resorts will typically have. Also BLT has fewer pools to maintain than other DVC resorts like SSR and OKW. No animals to feed like at AKV.

In other respects BLT will have higher expenses than other resorts. The modern furniture and decor probably cost more than other furniture. That would be reflected in the refurbishment reserves budget.
The elevator maintenance is probably higher given that the elevators have to cover 15 floors instead of 2-4.

I doubt the monorail has any impact, or very little impact, on the dues. While we might contribute towards monorail maintenance, there are also fewer buses to run because of the monorail. There would be no MK or Epcot busses at all, and those two are the most popular WDW attractions. There are fewer bus stops to maintain (Just one, compared to the 5-6 at SSR/OKW, 2 at AKV) and that one bus stop is shared with the Contemporary, so we aren't fully paying for all those buses.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

A big one I can see right away is Roof Replacement. All those villas under just one roof. So, lets say your average DVC resort has 3 floor under each roof. BLT has 15 floors under each roof. So, by extrapolation, other DVC resorts have about 5 times as many roofs (per unit) than BLT. So, multiply that cost by 5.
External Building Painting is probably saving some money. One building, and less surface area, per villa, to paint. I'd say you could double that cost for other DVC resorts, per unit.

I'm sure that plays a role in lower dues, but..
Can we really put the cost of roofing a 3-story building on par with a 16-story building? I would imagine roofing supplies at BLT will be moved with heavy lift helicopters.
Painting while hanging on the side of the 15th floor will probably also cost more than it would on the 3rd floor.

MG

 

[DVCPAT]

Agreed. A lot of people have no idea just how expensive good landscaping can be. Especially to maintain it in such a lush, rich and well groomed way. It requires constant care from many skilled laborers. It aint cheap.

Here's the biggest costs according to the public offering statement:

Administration and Front Desk: $987,120
Housekeeping: $1,218,700
Insurance: $229,179
Maintenance: $724,160
Management Fee: $709,366
Member Activities: $301,189
Transportation: $301,730
Utilities: $555,630
Roof Replacement: $294,390 (per year in to a capital reserves fund)
Interior Refurbishment: $1,383,316 (per year in to capital reserves)
External Building Painting: $300,234 (per year in to capital reserves)

A big one I can see right away is Roof Replacement. All those villas under just one roof. So, lets say your average DVC resort has 3 floor under each roof. BLT has 15 floors under each roof. So, by extrapolation, other DVC resorts have about 5 times as many roofs (per unit) than BLT. So, multiply that cost by 5.
External Building Painting is probably saving some money. One building, and less surface area, per villa, to paint. I'd say you could double that cost for other DVC resorts, per unit.
Utilities will also be lower, given that BLT is a modern building that has more efficient insulation. The windows are probably more efficient because they need to be for being a hi-rise. Also, less doors to the outside (per unit) than most DVCs and less surface area to the outside (per unit). I imagine this cost is about 1.5 to 2 times the cost at other DVC resorts per unit.
Finally, maintenance: General maintenance should be about the same, per unit, as other DVC resorts. Since I didn't see a specific line item about groundskeeping, I am guessing that groundskeeping is coming from the general maintenance budget. So I imagine that general maintenance with groundskeeping would go up about 30-50% with the additional grounds that other DVC resorts will typically have. Also BLT has fewer pools to maintain than other DVC resorts like SSR and OKW. No animals to feed like at AKV.

In other respects BLT will have higher expenses than other resorts. The modern furniture and decor probably cost more than other furniture. That would be reflected in the refurbishment reserves budget.
The elevator maintenance is probably higher given that the elevators have to cover 15 floors instead of 2-4.

I doubt the monorail has any impact, or very little impact, on the dues. While we might contribute towards monorail maintenance, there are also fewer buses to run because of the monorail. There would be no MK or Epcot busses at all, and those two are the most popular WDW attractions. There are fewer bus stops to maintain (Just one, compared to the 5-6 at SSR/OKW, 2 at AKV) and that one bus stop is shared with the Contemporary, so we aren't fully paying for all those buses.

Very good points…..DVC utilities and transportation fees are very expensive. Think about how many people travel/ eat at DVC resort restaurants on an annual basis. The guests enter through the lobby (usually early) and hang out in the common areas. The resort absorbs all the wear and tear, energy costs and transportation fees.

DVC pays a percentage of the resort transportation/utility costs but doesn’t get a percentage of the restaurant profit. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but BLT has a simpler set-up that only deals with resort occupancy.

 

[lark]

Administration and Front Desk: $987,120
Housekeeping: $1,218,700
Insurance: $229,179
Maintenance: $724,160
Management Fee: $709,366
Member Activities: $301,189
Transportation: $301,730
Utilities: $555,630
Roof Replacement: $294,390 (per year in to a capital reserves fund)
Interior Refurbishment: $1,383,316 (per year in to capital reserves)
External Building Painting: $300,234 (per year in to capital reserves)

Isn't BLT eventually supposed to sell about 4-5 million points? That's around $16 million in dues each year. There must be lots of little expenses to make up the other approximately $10 million or so.

 

[YourEveryDayAdam]

Isn't BLT eventually supposed to sell about 4-5 million points? That's around $16 million in dues each year. There must be lots of little expenses to make up the other approximately $10 million or so.

Those numbers are just for 2009. Estimated from September opening. So, They really should be multiplied by 3 to get the full year's worth of dues.

 

[YourEveryDayAdam]

I'm sure that plays a role in lower dues, but..
Can we really put the cost of roofing a 3-story building on par with a 16-story building? I would imagine roofing supplies at BLT will be moved with heavy lift helicopters.
Painting while hanging on the side of the 15th floor will probably also cost more than it would on the 3rd floor.

MG

I really doubt that they would, or even be able, to do the roofing supplies with heavy lift copters. I'm not sure what goes in to the roof of BLT, but it would just be what they need to water proof it. They probably just use large sheets of white asphalt shingles, with plastic underneath that. Those probably funnel in to drains every so often in the roof that drain the water in to Bay Lake. All that could be brought up to the top by the elevators. The only other part that might need to be helicoptered in would be the sheet metal that makes up the actual structural roof. But this would almost never need to be replaced so long as the weather-proofing components of the roof are well maintained.

As for painting, yes they would have to do it with scaffolding, but, I imagine it would still be faster (per square foot) to do than using ladders. There are also other cost savings: BLT is just one giant building all the same color. Easier and quicker to paint. No trim, etc. Just use an air painter. So while it may cost more in equipment, the biggest cost of painting is labor, and having less surface area to paint and being easier to paint would save money here.

 

[DenLo]

I'm sure that plays a role in lower dues, but..
Can we really put the cost of roofing a 3-story building on par with a 16-story building? I would imagine roofing supplies at BLT will be moved with heavy lift helicopters.
Painting while hanging on the side of the 15th floor will probably also cost more than it would on the 3rd floor.

MG

The only reason I can see the use of a crane or helicopter would be to replace an a/c unit that may or may not be on the roof. Then a crane could probably lift it. They may even have a crane on the roof as far as we know? I would think all of the roof material could easily go up a service elevator.

And exterior painting--isn't the building mainly concrete? So wouldn't exterior painting be railings, signs and items not attached to the building, benches, the pool buildings. Or you saying the concrete was painted? Since CR has a similar exterior, how often is it's concrete repainted?

The periodical power cleaning of the concrete and window washing could affect the budget. After seeing all those birds on the roof and balcony railings in one trip report photo that might be more frequent that estimated.