BEWARE! Western Way Speed Trap...

[Disneyhappy]

I have a couple of thoughts on this subject. First off, I often work with law enforcement with my job and the majority of jurisdictions have their set "speed traps". Yes, if you go the speed limit, there should be no problem. However, I have had officers admit that they count on drivers missing a speed limit sign changing the limits on a stretch of road that really has no reason for a change in the speed limit. They count on the revenue. And yes, they have quotas for the number of tickets they need to give out a month. In my community, I know the 4 speed traps and they are out in earnest in the last week of the month to meet their quotas. The tickets given in my speed trap areas will not put points on your license or be documented for your insurance company's DMV check as long as you don't contest the ticket and just pay it.

As far as FL, I have heard they are very tough with tickets and don't give breaks. My niece learned a hard lesson this summer. She is in the military and had just returned from Afghanistan. She was flown into GA and had to drive home to Tampa. On the way, she was stopped for speeding. Because of the heat in Afghanistan, her driver's license cracked in half and of course, she did not have an opportunity to get a new one since she just returned to the states. Not only did FHP give a ticket for speeding but also a fine for the cracked driver's license. I think the license ticket was an $80 fine. She decided to fight the ticket for the license. She knew she was speeding and freely admitted it to the judge/magistrate but felt the ticket for the license was unfair since she was only in the US for 3 days and had only been allowed to leave the base for the first time when she rented the car and headed home, a few hours before the traffic stop. Well, the good news is that they dropped the charge for the cracked license since she didn't have time to get it replaced but the police officer increased her speeding ticket fine because he alleged he gave her a break and did not charge her with the actual speed she was driving. So she was intitally ticketed for going 10 MPH over the speed limit and the officer changed it to 20 MPH at the hearing. Poor kid didn't know what to do. She swears she was only 10 MPH over the speed limit but it was her word against the FHP and she decided not to push the issue in case he increased it even more. I'm not sure what the moral of the story is other than don't speed and life is not always fair. If the FHP is not going to give a break to a carload of military personnel who just returned from overseas, I don't think they are going to give anyone a break!

 

[Disneyhappy]

Considering Disney is paying the county to patrol the area it could be set up to slow down traffic and minimize the number of tickets.

In our town, 28,000, we have at a minimum of four patrol cars assigned to radar monitoring. They issue very few tickets. The positioning of the cars is so that everyone sees them and slows down. The chief and the city council says the job is to slow down traffic and this is one way to do. The chief also believes this is safer for the officier. They don't have to get out of the car into traffic.

I have seen this approach when I travel and I agree it is very effective. Just the sight of a police car makes me check my speedometer and lift my foot off the gas! Cudos to your town for not trying to capitalize on the drivers exceeding the speed limit and utilizing a technique that is much more effective than laying in wait for speeders.

 

[Edd]

Tell me what is their quota. As long as you work along with them you should know what their quota is. In Florida if you don't have your drivers license an officer will call in and have it verified. Tickets are required to have the the code number of the regulation that was violated. Find me a regulation that makes it a violation to have a cracked license. The drivers license must be current and not expired.

An officer can't change a speed once it is in the hearing because a judge will have the actual report and if anything is changed the defendant can be found not guilty. Maybe the violation said she was doing 20 miles per hour over the speed limit. You know people really lie a lot when it comes to vehicle speeds. I wouldn't really base any opinion on another persons statement.

 

[manning]

I have a couple of thoughts on this subject. First off, I often work with law enforcement with my job and the majority of jurisdictions have their set "speed traps". Yes, if you go the speed limit, there should be no problem. However, I have had officers admit that they count on drivers missing a speed limit sign changing the limits on a stretch of road that really has no reason for a change in the speed limit. They count on the revenue. And yes, they have quotas for the number of tickets they need to give out a month. In my community, I know the 4 speed traps and they are out in earnest in the last week of the month to meet their quotas. The tickets given in my speed trap areas will not put points on your license or be documented for your insurance company's DMV check as long as you don't contest the ticket and just pay it.

As far as FL, I have heard they are very tough with tickets and don't give breaks. My niece learned a hard lesson this summer. She is in the military and had just returned from Afghanistan. She was flown into GA and had to drive home to Tampa. On the way, she was stopped for speeding. Because of the heat in Afghanistan, her driver's license cracked in half and of course, she did not have an opportunity to get a new one since she just returned to the states. Not only did FHP give a ticket for speeding but also a fine for the cracked driver's license. I think the license ticket was an $80 fine. She decided to fight the ticket for the license. She knew she was speeding and freely admitted it to the judge/magistrate but felt the ticket for the license was unfair since she was only in the US for 3 days and had only been allowed to leave the base for the first time when she rented the car and headed home, a few hours before the traffic stop. Well, the good news is that they dropped the charge for the cracked license since she didn't have time to get it replaced but the police officer increased her speeding ticket fine because he alleged he gave her a break and did not charge her with the actual speed she was driving. So she was intitally ticketed for going 10 MPH over the speed limit and the officer changed it to 20 MPH at the hearing. Poor kid didn't know what to do. She swears she was only 10 MPH over the speed limit but it was her word against the FHP and she decided not to push the issue in case he increased it even more. I'm not sure what the moral of the story is other than don't speed and life is not always fair. If the FHP is not going to give a break to a carload of military personnel who just returned from overseas, I don't think they are going to give anyone a break!

You mean he put 10 over on the ticket and the judge allowed him to change it in court? What town was this in???

 

[Edd]

Give me one good reason why a person driving 85 miles an hour in a 65 mile zone should be given a break! Or why someone weaving in and out of traffic maybe speeding should be given a break. In Alabama last week 4 teenagers were killed when a maybe speeding car and maybe weaving in and out lanes might have caused a bus to go off the road and over a bridge. 4 teenagers were killed. Now should that driver be given a break if he is indeed the one that caused the accident. How many breaks did the youngster get from his driving habits before the fatal accident. No in Florida they don't give breaks, but they write good tickets, without regard to race, age or gender to people who violate the regulations.

The lady going 35 in a 15 miles school zone was very lucky because of the sign blockage. However, did she not notice our kids going to school maybe horsing around or running in and out the street, or at least the school signs. Maybe she was just in a strange town.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

In Florida a police officer cannot change the ticket in the court room....that's absurd. She was charged with whatever it said on the ticket and she was either found guilty or not guilty on that charge. You can't be charged with something else in open court.

As far as revenue sharing goes, it is true that in Florida the money from traffic fines is shared between the county where the ticket was written and the municipality where it was written. Not sure if the specifc departments also get a piece of the pie. Disney does not directly get any money from traffic tickets written on Disney property, that is true. However Walt Disney World is spread across two incorporated municipalities, the cities of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake. (All 4 theme parks are in Bay Lake, Florida, the Downtown Disney area is in Lake Buena Vista, Florida). Both municipalities are formalities and are run by the Reedy Creek Improvement District. I'm not certain but we could speculate that RCID receives a cut from traffic tickets written on Disney property, just like other municipalities where tickets are written...............and RCID is owned by.......Disney. So indirectly Disney could be making money off tickets.

But they pay far more for the Orange County Sheriff's Department to be their police force. It's not uncommon in Florida for smaller incorporated cities to not have their own police department but instead contract for the sheriff's department in their county to handle police duties.

BobK/Orlando

 

[goofy4tink]

So, bottom line......if the speed limit is 35 mph, then drive at 35 mph. If you are not familier with the area, then drive at 30 mph. Do not get involved with anything other than your driving since you could miss important roadside information (i.e. signage). In 'most' cases, personal responsibility is ours. If we are paying attention, and driving with our wits about us, we will stay out of trouble, with the law and other drivers. Start speeding, however little, or start fiddling with the stereo or talking on the old cell phone, then you're asking for problems. Tourists tend to drive exactly the same way when they are in unfamilier territory as they do at home...big mistake. Slow down, be aware.
Let's not try to place blame with Disney or the police dept in the area.

 

[Disneyhappy]

You mean he put 10 over on the ticket and the judge allowed him to change it in court? What town was this in???

She had to go to Gainesvilles to contest the ticket.

"In Florida a police officer cannot change the ticket in the court room....that's absurd. She was charged with whatever it said on the ticket and she was either found guilty or not guilty on that charge. You can't be charged with something else in open court."

Their are no court reporters at the traffic court levels so they can pretty much say and do as they want as there is no record. This is nothing compared to what local courts pull of around the country. The New York Times just had a feature article on the injustices of their local court systems across the state.


"Tell me what is their quota. As long as you work along with them you should know what their quota is. In Florida if you don't have your drivers license an officer will call in and have it verified. Tickets are required to have the the code number of the regulation that was violated. Find me a regulation that makes it a violation to have a cracked license. The drivers license must be current and not expired.

An officer can't change a speed once it is in the hearing because a judge will have the actual report and if anything is changed the defendant can be found not guilty. Maybe the violation said she was doing 20 miles per hour over the speed limit. You know people really lie a lot when it comes to vehicle speeds. I wouldn't really base any opinion on another persons statement."

I don't know the exact citation she received for the license. I didn't think I would be questioned so I did not write it down when she showed me her ticket in August. I think it was something about defacement of the license. It was completely in two pieces

I know it may sound incredulous but the officer definitely changed the speed on the ticket and the Judge left him do it. My niece called me afterwards in tears. My sister was irate and contacted a close friend who is a DJ of a Tampa radio station and showed him all the paperwork. Apparently after looking at the documents, he dedicated an hour on his talk show discussing the issue of FHP. From what my sister told me, the concensus from the callers on the talk show was to never fight a traffic ticket from the FHP without counsel as you will not come out a winner.

I agree that speed limits are in place for a reason and if you drive the speed limit, you have nothing to worry about (for the most part anyway). Safety needs to come first!

 

[Edd]

Courts do not need court reporters anymore. All court proceedings are on tape and maybe new digital technology. Lawyers would have a heyday if the court didn't protect itself in all procedings by recording. Gainesville is "University of Florida" and many law students, at the university, follow all the court procedings there.

Thanks, Goofy4tink, I had exactly the same thoughts. I have driven over 700,000 miles in the past ten years and received one ticket. That was when I was going to be smart and turn right when a sign strictly prohibited the right turn. I got caught to the tune of $115.00. Probably did endanger the speeding cars coming through the intersection, but I was only thinking of getting home 30 seconds faster.

 

[ducklite]

My beef is poor signage designed to trap people, or long stretches of artificially low speed limits. There are plenty of those in Florida.

In my case, I beat a $300 ticket. I was going 30 miles an hour, and I thought the speed limit was 35. But it was actually 15, because it was a school zone. But the overhead school zone signs were taken down because of all the constructicion going on in the area, and the other ones were obstructed because of the construction signs.

When I contacted a lawyer, he told me it was a common speed trap in that small city, which was using the lack of signs and the construstion area to get as much ticket money as possible.

If the signs are positioned in a way to make as many people miss them as possible, then that to me is a speed trap.

IF you see the sign and blow by it anyway, then that's speeding.

There are at least two speed limit signs, that are completely unobstructed as you enter Western Way from either end. If the OP's mother didn't see them, then perhaps she needs to take a Senior Driver class (not a flame on seniors by any means!) They are very, very clearly marked. ANYONE who misses them is not paying attention or deliberately speeding. Not paying attention causes serious accidents.

Anne

 

[jodifla]

There are at least two speed limit signs, that are completely unobstructed as you enter Western Way from either end. If the OP's mother didn't see them, then perhaps she needs to take a Senior Driver class (not a flame on seniors by any means!) They are very, very clearly marked. ANYONE who misses them is not paying attention or deliberately speeding. Not paying attention causes serious accidents.

Anne

OK, thanks, good to know. I normally take the Turnpike up to the Osceola Parkway, and head to WDW from there.

 

[jodifla]

I have a couple of thoughts on this subject. First off, I often work with law enforcement with my job and the majority of jurisdictions have their set "speed traps". Yes, if you go the speed limit, there should be no problem. However, I have had officers admit that they count on drivers missing a speed limit sign changing the limits on a stretch of road that really has no reason for a change in the speed limit. They count on the revenue. And yes, they have quotas for the number of tickets they need to give out a month. In my community, I know the 4 speed traps and they are out in earnest in the last week of the month to meet their quotas. The tickets given in my speed trap areas will not put points on your license or be documented for your insurance company's DMV check as long as you don't contest the ticket and just pay it.

As far as FL, I have heard they are very tough with tickets and don't give breaks. My niece learned a hard lesson this summer. She is in the military and had just returned from Afghanistan. She was flown into GA and had to drive home to Tampa. On the way, she was stopped for speeding. Because of the heat in Afghanistan, her driver's license cracked in half and of course, she did not have an opportunity to get a new one since she just returned to the states. Not only did FHP give a ticket for speeding but also a fine for the cracked driver's license. I think the license ticket was an $80 fine. She decided to fight the ticket for the license. She knew she was speeding and freely admitted it to the judge/magistrate but felt the ticket for the license was unfair since she was only in the US for 3 days and had only been allowed to leave the base for the first time when she rented the car and headed home, a few hours before the traffic stop. Well, the good news is that they dropped the charge for the cracked license since she didn't have time to get it replaced but the police officer increased her speeding ticket fine because he alleged he gave her a break and did not charge her with the actual speed she was driving. So she was intitally ticketed for going 10 MPH over the speed limit and the officer changed it to 20 MPH at the hearing. Poor kid didn't know what to do. She swears she was only 10 MPH over the speed limit but it was her word against the FHP and she decided not to push the issue in case he increased it even more. I'm not sure what the moral of the story is other than don't speed and life is not always fair. If the FHP is not going to give a break to a carload of military personnel who just returned from overseas, I don't think they are going to give anyone a break!

Thanks for your note! It should help open people's eyes to what goes on behind the scenes. It's not all designed for driver's or pediastrians' safety benefits....sometimes it's just done to bring in $$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[seashoreCM]

An officer can't change a speed once it is in the hearing because a judge will have the actual report and if anything is changed the defendant can be found not guilty. Maybe the violation said she was doing 20 miles per hour over the speed limit. You .

Doesn't the ticket say what the alleged speed was?

Are the speed limit signs hard to see, or easy to overlook?

Or is it posted 35 MPH and there is a lack of a higher limit sign where the road looks suitable for higher speeds? Many stories have been told of leaving town and seeing the road getting wider and more spacious (but no sign permitting a higher speed), speeding up, and getting nabbed for exceeding the in town speed limit of 25 or so.

Where is this lower speed section (if not the entire length of Western Way)? Is it near an intersection with no traffic light "in the middle of nowhere" north of Animal Kingdom where (Disney) trucks and service vehicles cross? (I'm sure I saw one such north-south road on a map)

 

[Disneyhappy]

Courts do not need court reporters anymore. All court proceedings are on tape and maybe new digital technology. Lawyers would have a heyday if the court didn't protect itself in all procedings by recording. Gainesville is "University of Florida" and many law students, at the university, follow all the court procedings there.

Not all courts record proceedings (whether by court reporter or recordings) at the local level and traffic court. All civil proceedings that are not at the local level and all criminal proceedings are recorded. It is not cost effective at the local level to record the proceedings for traffic court violations and minor civil claims. Different venues are now moving to the less costly digital recording but it is starting with the civil and criminal cases first as it is required that they be recorded. I doubt that University of FL law students are following minor traffic court proceedings with all of the more interesting civil and criminal cases being tried that they could be watching unless it is a class requirement.

While I would not post it, my niece has copies of the original ticket and the actual judgment against her at traffic court showing that the violation was changed. If she appealed would she win? Most likely on the issue of the increased violation. But if she chose to "de novo" the judge's finding, she should have counsel to represent her interests at the next court level and that cost would be more than the cost of her ticket and increased insurance premiums over the next three years. Traffic courts know the odds are that citizens won't retain counsel or appeal a decision. I guess I do not have a hard time believing my niece's scenario since I have been handling claims for governmental entities for over 15 years. I've had to sit in police depositions for police professional claims where I know they were lying in their sworn testimony. I've seen the power that local magistrate's wield because they know the proceedings are not being recorded and the difficult steps that must be followed to have them removed from the bench. The New York Times just did a feature article on their State's judges abuse of power at the local level. It happens everywhere but fortunately, it is more the exception than the rule or it would be profiled much higher in the news.

Sorry if this got way off topic. To get it back on topic, again, the best way to avoid traffic violations is to pay attention to the signs and stay within the speed limit. Police have the discretion to cut people breaks but don't count on it, especailly for speeding violations as it is in the public's best interest to enforce those laws. I see the horrible motor vehicle accidents that occur across the country every day in my job. Most are the result of speeding and driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Now if I would only follow the posted speed limtis myself as I am known to have a heavy foot at times (only according to my DH, of course)!

 

[ducklite]

Doesn't the ticket say what the alleged speed was?

Are the speed limit signs hard to see, or easy to overlook?

No. They are clear and well marked.

Or is it posted 35 MPH and there is a lack of a higher limit sign where the road looks suitable for higher speeds?

The road is wide and flat and seems like the speed should be higher, BUT there are TWO speed limit signs on each end, so the design of the road is of no bearing. The speed limit is well marked.

Many stories have been told of leaving town and seeing the road getting wider and more spacious (but no sign permitting a higher speed), speeding up, and getting nabbed for exceeding the in town speed limit of 25 or so.

This is NOT the case. The signage is there and clearly marked. If people miss it, that's simply their problem. I've seen it every time I've entered the roadway. The difference is probably that I'm not in "vacation haze" mode--but vacation haze isn't an excuse.

Where is this lower speed section (if not the entire length of Western Way)? Is it near an intersection "in the middle of nowhere" with no traffic light where trucks and service vehicles cross? (I'm sure I saw one such north-south road on a map)

It is through the entire stretch. There are several crossroads where large trucks and service vehicles would be crossing or entering.

Anne

 

[seashoreCM]

There are good reasons for a modest speed limit on a road like Western Way. One reason is to make it easier for trucks to get across without having to erect traffic lights.

Enforcement is needed to keep speeds down given the appearance of the road. Compounding the problem is that, at 55 mph, there are fewer gaps suitable for a truck to get across in compared with 35 mph and more times when drivers have to really slam on brakes for a truck. (More rants on these boards for such an unmagical end to one's vacation?)

If/when/once lights are put in, your average speed will be much less then 35 mph even if the signs say 50 mph.

 

[SlightlyGoofy]

I took Western Way toward Ocala on our trip in October and thought it was wonderful except for the fact that I overdrove the exit I was supposed to take because I did not see the sign. Fortunately the road made a dead end just down the road a bit so it was an easy fix. I was looking for a Florida Turnpike sign and it did not say FT. I am sure that locals knew what they were meaning but I did not.

I am sure that I probably went over 35 miles an hour, which I would NOT have done had I seen any mph signs. It is such a wide road and no traffic it never occurred to me that it would be such a low speed. I have never had a ticket and the only speeding I do is when I am in heavy traffic going over the limit and then I stay in the right lane and just keep up with the car in front of me while the car behind me pushes me from the rear. It is far more dangerous for me to drive the stated speed while cars have to keep passing me IMO.

I cannot count the times I have been driving and had to search and search for a mileage sign so that I would know how fast to drive. It is nervewracking and if I am looking for a sign and cannot see one there just plain are not enough of them. I know the general rules of the road as to what the speed limits are on different types of roads but it sometimes varies state to state.

I like the fact that they have outsourced traffic patrolling as I notice that it is much safer to drive around property these days. (that and the better signage from years ago) When you are dealing with large amounts of tourists who do not know exactly where they are going, myself included, it is a good thing to go a bit slower as it reduces the severity of an accident, IMHO.

Any place that I see the speed limit go from a high speed to an extremely much lower speed within a short distance I always assume 'speed trap' and since we live near one of our state's main ones I know to be very careful there but people from out of the area would not know it as it is such a tiny town and the main road is a main road with speed limits of 55 on either end and a speed of 25 mph in the middle.

I have been told by friends of mine who are policemen and women that a lot of this started back when the Federal government cut back monies to the states and local governments and they were forced to come up with alternative ways to pay the bills.

That being said, if you do not speed you do not generally get tickets. Most of us try not to. None of us are perfect though.

Colleen's mom admited that she erred even if it was an innocent error. She did not make an excuse. She felt badly. I think she is to be applauded for making it this far into her life without ever getting a ticket instead of being told she is too old to drive and other such things.

Colleen was kind enough to post on here to warn other people not to be treated badly.

Since I was the one who suggested that she post so that someone else might be spared the embarrassment, expense or whatever- I feel responsible. Please flame me instead. I can take it.

Slightly Goofy

 

[djbleach]

I'd say people to get distracted.
Sometimes when you are driving a "rental car" speeding can happen easily.
I know when I drive my wifes car, I can be speeding before I know what happens! It counts the speed in 10's not 5mph, like mine. It drives more smooth, very easy to speed. Am I not paying attention? Not sure how you answer this? I was watching the road, watching other cars, driving with both hands on the wheel, it didn't feel like I was speeding, but when I looked down I was going 70mph unstead of 60.
It happens.
It trips me out when people "throw stones". Who lives in a glass house?
I do agree with the OP, the police officer could have given her a warning. When he checked her record, and show no tickets, why did he feel the need to be the one?
A speed trap is just that. A trap. It's when the speed drops drastically , fast.
Small signs, sometimes no flashing lights. The signs for Fast Food are bigger than the Warning Speed Signs!!!!! Give me a break.
I live in Virginia, and Emporer is a well know speed trap. Also the small town I live in Windsor is a speed trap. (you can google speed traps, and it will let you know of Alot.)
Last week an officer got killed while given a ticket in Emporer. The driver wasn't speeding who ran into him. I just say this because it seems so strange. When you have crack dealers, gangs, Enron's, and the police take the easy way to "protect and serve" by giving speeding tickets to for the most part law abbiding citizens, who pay taxes. Who are we protecting? When a police officer has someone pulled over, it's actually a Safety Hazard. That's where the term rubber neckers comes in. Almost Everybody slows down and looks. It really disrubts traffic. I've never seen it make traffic safer.
Anyway. I like the way PA will give you a ticket, but unless its reckless driving , it wont go against your driving record and raise your insurance. This is cool. I Wish every state would do this. That's what gets you. When it want get off your driving record for three years. And you have to pay high premiums for years. This is what makes it worth fighting.
I hope she goes to court and gets it dropped

 

[ducklite]

I took Western Way toward Ocala on our trip in October and thought it was wonderful except for the fact that I overdrove the exit I was supposed to take because I did not see the sign. Fortunately the road made a dead end just down the road a bit so it was an easy fix. I was looking for a Florida Turnpike sign and it did not say FT. I am sure that locals knew what they were meaning but I did not.

Why would you be looking for a sign for the turnpike? Western Way leads to the 429, not the turnpike...

I am sure that I probably went over 35 miles an hour, which I would NOT have done had I seen any mph signs.

Again, they are there, and quite clear.

Any place that I see the speed limit go from a high speed to an extremely much lower speed within a short distance I always assume 'speed trap'

When you get off the 429 onto Western Way the speed drops by about half. but you would expect that. The Western Way is not a freeway/limited access highway where you'd expect a 55-70mph limit. It's basically a "country road." When getting onto Western Way from WDW you'll drop yur speed from 40 mph to 35 mph, hardly a huge drop.

Anne

 

[kaytieeldr]

I do agree with the OP, the police officer could have given her a warning. When he checked her record, and show no tickets, why did he feel the need to be the one?

Wish I could remember where, but a police officer who was questioned about this stated that they only catch (or stop) about one in a hundred speeders. Looking at it another way, he said, if he's stopped a speeder then most likely they've exceeded the speed limit a hundred times without getting stopped.

Small signs, sometimes no flashing lights. The signs for Fast Food are bigger than the Warning Speed Signs!!!!! Give me a break.

Road signs - stop, yield, speed limit, etc - are each a standard size (and color, and shape) across the country. Fast food signs are ADVERTISING, for which the business has PAID. HUGE difference. You want traffic signs changed? Talk to the government.