Behavior Challenge Thread

In our state there is an agency that provides parent support as well as advocates (support staff) to help parents who are butting heads with their school systems; they're available to attend meetings, help with communication, etc. Do some online research and see if you can find something similar in your state. You are entitled to bring anyone you want with you to your meetings with school personnel (in some cases you may have to provide formal notice that you are doing so.) Your school system sounds like it's really good at talking parents in circles and never getting anything substantive accomplished, and that's the barrier you have to break through. Find someone with experience and chutzpah (sp?) to help you pick your battles and follow things as far as you need to go to achieve a positive learning environment for your child.
 
I've spent tonight printing out the laws as per TEA website and it very clearly says parents may request an evaluation. I'm going to call TEA and then either go back over there tomorrow or deliver a letter to the principal and the SE Director. According to the website, that starts the 60 day timer.

It's strange she wants that report from the neuropsych, everything I've read pretty much says they have to do their own additional eval. So obviously they are stalling and hoping to put it off. I told her I didn't want to have to wait until November. I just hope they will show some understanding while my daughter (who is socially/emotionally younger than the kids she's around) deals with anxiety, learning differences, and sensory issues unaided and unsupported emotionally until they do their tests. It worries me that she'll be in a classroom with 20 other kids and one teacher who is going to try to treat her like every other NT kid. Even the city day camp she's at now does more for her than that.

Thanks everyone! Hope all is well.

ps believe it or not my dd still mentions the nightmare every night. Still hasn't gone away. And it seems her fear has been "activated" or heightened because I try to read books (that haven't been scary to her in the past) and some of them she says no!...too scary. She mentioned tonight she still sees "the picture in her head". Poor thing. I'm slowly starting to realize that what may SEEM to be the issue (nightmare and fear) may not really BE the issue. I'm trying to figure out what's going on!
 
As I have said her ability to mange information visually (an its intensity or “reality”) is way ahead of her emotional and intellectual level to deal with and rationalize the input. Also since we often have a much greater memory capability for visuals it is not surprising that what would fade for an NT is still vivid for us for much longer. This improves greatly with a little more maturity; when she brings it up just keep helping her “rationalize” what dream are (just like you teach any skill)

Glad you have found the needed documentation. Sounds like you have a solid plan. In limited defense of the school, it is a lot easier for them when they have the outside reports since often they are much broader and more detailed than can be done in an educational evaluation and are valuable not necessarily for being needed for the classification but for developing a detailed IEP based in individual information and clinical recommendation. There are s significant percentage of situations where parent choose not to “share this information” so I can see the value of “enticing” parents to supply it, but delaying and violation of IDEA is to an acceptable methodology.

One question to ask is if they have an inclusion classroom (some schools do and some schools do not) If they do asking if she could be temporarily assigned to that (outside of the formality of and IEP) not as a special ed student (yet) might keep her much safer from damage (using the “damage or injury” word often motivates administrators to do the “right thing”). Inclusion classrooms have at least 2 teachers and often have paraprofessional and student special ed teacher which brings the ratio down to a reasonable level, not to mention that hopefully they have some level of training and experience in HFA/Aspergers.

We have all been through this at some level and the great thing is that you are starting it in kindergarten, which is much better than in the later years.

One thing to be aware is that some schools try to push our children into more restrictive school environment that would be best for them to “limit expended resources”. While I do not know your daughter beyond your descriptions, I am reasonably sure that with a paraprofessional (a well trained on in HFA/Aspergers), pull out for special needs she will be capable of flourishing over time in the general ed environment with the IEP. LRE is very important for our children and is often a major “battle point” since it takes a lot more resources to accomplish, but it is a primary mandate of IDEA

bookwormde
 
Grace, if you go today, type up a letter before you go. Put it in your purse. After you talk to the director, no matter the response, give her the letter. She then has (I believe) 7 days to respond in writing. If she doesn't, you'll need to go above her, or get an advocate to help you out.

I'm just saying, get it in writing. You need a serious paper trail on this. Even your conversation yesterday, write down exactly what happened, because as time goes by you'll forget the details and the sequence of events. When you meet these people, ask them for their name, and write it down while you're standing there.
 

I'm reading Grace's posts, and thinking, "Why does this sound like she's trying to get a divorce, not get her kid into the proper therapies in school?":sad2:

I wanted to mention that the lady I know whose son with many ASD type isues who pulled the insulin pump from another child's stomach this Spring was told by her school that they wouldn't do anything other than punishment for bad behavior UNTIL they had a Dr.'s evaluation. I told her that was wrong, but apparently they kicked the kid out of school until she got a "diagnosis".

So I wonder how much leeway administrators have to manipulate this.

And Grace, we've all been through this and I'm sorry. Here's my advice: do everything else everyone says here, first. Second, if you don't get the answer you need, then go to the next person up the food chain. I actually called the Superintendent at both school systems we've been in. Just the secretary that answered the phone was able to get me to THE person to fix my problem both times I pulled that trick. I never got mad, I just said I was confused by the answers I had been given and I needed help. It also helps to do your homework, too. They know what the rules are. They just pray that you don't.

I'll never forget when my sister, the attorney, and I showed up at the office of a school district department head to plead my son's case two year ago. We were very nice, but tag teamed him. We not only got what we wanted, but were given an open invitation to come back any time as long as we brought him some coffee and doughnuts, since he had so much "fun" talking to us.

In that same vein, remember that most low income kids with disabilities have an attorney representing them. If you can't pull out the lawyer card, then fake it. As in, "Well, if you say so about the subject, but I will just run it by my attorney and see what he says...(with a big smile on your face)".

Tackle this like a job, not a personal rejection. The more emotional you appear to some people, the more they get off on abusing you. Remember, life is like high school, except everyone is fatter and meaner. So know what you want and ask for it and don't take no for an answer.

That's the pep talk. :hug:
 
Well, guess what?

I went in there today ready to fight the good fight and they greeted me, smiling at the door with all the paperwork to initiate the evaluations. :thumbsup2

I had the letter in my purse to request the eval according to IDEA but didn't need it. Evidently they figured they were in the wrong. I did call TEA this morning (makes me wonder if TEA called them :confused3) BUT TEA basically said the school was right and not doing anything wrong. They suggested I request 504 Modification in the interim while testing is being completed.

Funny, because the Sp Ed Dir. had all the 504 stuff ready for me too.

So, they agreed to do language, physical, emotional/behavioral, sociological, intellectual/adaptive behavior, educational competencies, & adaptive/assisted tech evals. Sounds like more than what would be needed to me but she said this is "standard" for all spectrum kids.

Anyway, thaks guys. Hopefully this has all been a false alarm and they'll be better about this now. I am starting the binder and documented everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING.

:thumbsup2
 
Yea! See, all that persistence paid off. All they had to do was realize you were "that" kind of parent...:rotfl2:

So we had school Orientation last night. DS has DDs old 2nd grade teacher. Her first sentence was, "I don't believe in homework." DS's eyebrows went up and a biiiigggg smile broke over his face. :worship: Fingers crossed...
 
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Grace, I hate to tell you this, but that's one of their most successful battle tactics: lull the parents into letting their guard down. DON'T DO IT!!! Stay alert and stay ON TOP of them for everything. If you slack off, they will continue to do things their own way and you'll get to the end of the year and have achieved nothing. DON'T BACK DOWN - hold them to every single thing they say they will do!

(Can you tell I've been through this a time or two?? :rolleyes: )

Libby
 
GraceLuvsWDW,

It is great to hear that they are actually talking with you now.

As long as they are using the 504 procedure as a short term stop gap while they “catch up” (since they failed to follow IDEA child find regulation before she entered school) with your daughter’s needs and quickly get an IEP in place that is OK, but as you will find it is most likely grossly inadequate.

Yes the evaluations are extensive but very valuable if done well. If your clinicians or the educational evaluation do not have an auditory processing evaluation (very different from a hearing test) then make sure your daughter gets one from a highly qualified clinician since these provide invaluable information and recommendations for the EIP team. It is very reasonable that the school spends significant time and money on the evaluation since it will likely direct somewhere between $100,000 and $500,000 extra in costs for the school to meet the needs of your daughter throughout here school education.

bookwormde
 
Since this is our “catch all” thread, I was just wondering if anyone has been an ESP (educational surrogate parent under IDEA).

bookwormde
 
Grace, I hate to tell you this, but that's one of their most successful battle tactics: lull the parents into letting their guard down. DON'T DO IT!!! Stay alert and stay ON TOP of them for everything. If you slack off, they will continue to do things their own way and you'll get to the end of the year and have achieved nothing. DON'T BACK DOWN - hold them to every single thing they say they will do!

(Can you tell I've been through this a time or two?? :rolleyes: )

Libby

Please do keep records and keep being very proactive. As a teacher, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to know that a student could be achieving more if they had the right help (and have my hands tied to provide it.) I have had students that I referred in August leave me in June without getting help because the parents trusted the system.

Be that squeaky wheel!
 
Piper, you bring up another good point from the teacher's perspective........sometimes the classroom teacher never gets the child's IEP or info about services!! So if parents aren't on top of things and communicating regularly, they may think things are going well in the classroom, but the teacher may be clueless about what types of goals are in place!
 
Piper, you bring up another good point from the teacher's perspective........sometimes the classroom teacher never gets the child's IEP or info about services!! So if parents aren't on top of things and communicating regularly, they may think things are going well in the classroom, but the teacher may be clueless about what types of goals are in place!

My problem is that administration commonly says, "Well, they are so young -- it might be developmental. If we test now, then nothing may show up." Well, yeah, it might be developmental--disabilities are! But since I have never referred a child that didn't qualify for services when they finally got around to them, it seems to me that administrators would listen to me! It wastes valuable early learning time for the child. (I teach Pre-K)

I will probably retire at the end of this school year. I don't know who will be in my class because no one has registered yet (that starts Tuesday) but I have already made up my mind on something. If I have a child who needs services this year--I'm going to get them one way or another. What are they going to do? Fire me? I'll just retire a few months early!

~~~~~~~ steps off the soapbox
 
My problem is that administration commonly says, "Well, they are so young -- it might be developmental. If we test now, then nothing may show up." Well, yeah, it might be developmental--disabilities are! But since I have never referred a child that didn't qualify for services when they finally got around to them, it seems to me that administrators would listen to me! It wastes valuable early learning time for the child. (I teach Pre-K)

I will probably retire at the end of this school year. I don't know who will be in my class because no one has registered yet (that starts Tuesday) but I have already made up my mind on something. If I have a child who needs services this year--I'm going to get them one way or another. What are they going to do? Fire me? I'll just retire a few months early!

~~~~~~~ steps off the soapbox

You go Piper!!! You remind me so much of a kindergarten teacher I know. I volunteered in the kindy classes once a week. This teacher had me working with a little guy in December. He couldn't hold scissors correctly, color, or identify any letters. He was SO behind!! I asked the teacher one day if he could get some extra help, maybe from the OT. The teacher said she recommended him for an assessment the first week of school, and was still waiting!!! He was getting nothing, and falling further behind every moment!! GRRR!!! So thank you for looking out for all kids.:goodvibes
 
Piper, I soooo wish you worked in our school district! We have a bunch of kinder teachers at one school who said "we have over a 100 years teaching experience combined, and we know exactly what kids need the minute they step in our classrooms - and it's not additional services. we never refer any kid for services." :scared1: Our prek coordinator and staff say to us "you'd better not be sending me any more kids, hehehe" HELLO - it's the freaking law. Kids who need services need them as EARLY as possible!!

If nothing else, if they can't see that it's best for the child, why can't they see that it makes economic sense - if you address issues early, you save money later. If they whole thing is about money, why doesn't that sink in??

OK, rant over, carry on with your business, I'll restrain myself now!! :flower3:
 
I got a phone call on Thursday saying the Autism team wants to do the evals before school starts. School starts here in two weeks so that's pretty fast. I am concerned that they will say she doesn't need help because she is so far beyond a kinder level in her reading and academic abilities. Where she will need help the most is with her social skills, anxiety coping skills, attention and frustration issues. Surely they will help her there?

When I went in to sign the papers the Spec Ed Asst Dir spent some time with my dd and I think that is probably why they are "rushing" the testing. I think it is obvious to most everyone she will be a disruption to the classroom and difficult for the teacher to handle her plus 18 other kids. I met with a teacher that specializes in Sp Ed in a neighboring school district (a friend of a friend) and she was watching my dd interact with some other children. I mentioned to her they are evaluating my dd and she stated that based on her experience the Aspergers is quite apparent.

My dd has major sensory issues and that causes her anxiety. This causes her to want to "control" everything and becomes quite anxious and unruly if there are abrupt changes to the routine. I think this will cause issues in the classroom when she acts out and the teacher, not being able to focus solely on her, may not be able to determine the source of her frustration. Hopefully the "Autism team" will know how to identify those issues and put a plan in place.

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! :goodvibes
 
I also wanted to share a funny story. I took my dd and a neighbor friend (he is so good with her-he's 8 and so patient with my dd :goodvibes) to get something to eat. On the way home he said "I wish we could drive all the way to the sun" (the sun was setting on the horizon). My dd told him "You can't drive to the sun, you'd drive all the way around the world and end up here again". I thought this was funny because lately her favorite book "to look at the pictures" is "The Universe In A Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking. I didn't think she got anything from "looking at the pictures" but I guess she is! She carries the book around constantly! I don't even "get" the pictures in that book!

:lmao:
 
GraceLuvsWDW

It is a good thing that they have an “autism team” as long as they treat your daughter as an individual. If they have any competency they will already know that the non-academic curriculum (Social, TOM, EF etc skills), sensory needs, modifications to curriculum and providing a safe and nurturing environment will be the majority of the IEP, If not you will just have to “educate them”.

I know you probably get tired of me telling you this but you have an amazing child with special character and abilities that with you becoming informed about Aspergers and as the clinician and educator support her will allow these to blossom.

bookwormde
 
My problem is that administration commonly says, "Well, they are so young -- it might be developmental. If we test now, then nothing may show up." Well, yeah, it might be developmental--disabilities are! But since I have never referred a child that didn't qualify for services when they finally got around to them, it seems to me that administrators would listen to me! It wastes valuable early learning time for the child. (I teach Pre-K)

I will probably retire at the end of this school year. I don't know who will be in my class because no one has registered yet (that starts Tuesday) but I have already made up my mind on something. If I have a child who needs services this year--I'm going to get them one way or another. What are they going to do? Fire me? I'll just retire a few months early!

~~~~~~~ steps off the soapbox

God Bless ya' Piper. It was our son's pre-K teacher (who is absolutely awesome) that sat down with us and told us she felt there was an issue. She was with us every step of the way. I think people often under value the importance of Pre-K teachers. Your kids are lucky to have you.
 
Hi All. Had a very bad day today. After several good ones in a row. Why is it the bad ones leave you feeling like you've been in a war zone all day-REALLY? Sometimes I feel like NOTHING I can do can help. I've tried figuring out what her "triggers" are. I've analyzed it over and over. At the end of the day I'm left wondering, was she over tired? was she overstimulated? Is there something I am missing? All the books I've read and websites really focus on "finding the triggers". I've lived with my dd for 6 years 2 months and 5 days and I am no closer to figuring out what sends her over that edge than when she was born.

I'm sorry, I know I'm being negative I just really hate when I see her SO miserable. Crying on and off all day. Fighting with any friend who wants to play. Controlling everything-from arguing about what she wants to eat, to what she wants to wear, to which brush she wants to use, to how the seatbelt must perfectly sit across her, to how far her fork must be from her plate, to.....etc, etc, etc. Nothing I do helps! If I placate her she's still miserable. If I'm stern with her she loses it. If I try to redirect her thoughts or "cheer" her up she resents it. Uggggh.

I know this is just a day and tomorrow will be better. I just wish I could figure out what's causing this.

Frustrated and sad, that's how I feel. It's my job to help her. Sometimes I feel like my best isn't good enough. The changes around the corner in 2 weeks when school starts are probably going to be hard. I just hope this is a fluke day and tomorrow it'll all be better!

On Sunday nights my dd starts "amping" up over the idea that she has to go back to day camp the next day. The fixating and pleading begins with sobs, etc. I hope she'll like school more!

Hope everyone else is doing well. Sorry for the vent!
 


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