Behavior Challenge Thread

[BeckyScott]

So here we are. This thread is for the parents who are dealing with challenging behaviors with their kid. Brainstorm ideas, report progress, complain when it doesn't work... Let's see if we can get our lives a little bit easier.

Last night I was thinking about this while I was watching tv. I decided to try it in two parts, as I have sort of two seperate problems.

The first I'm calling Behavior Plan. This connects behavior to time on the Wii and computer, which is a huge deal for my boys. They'll start out with a certain amount of time per week, and more time can be added or taken away depending on behavior. Of course, I've gone into more detail on my little notes. I think I'm going to try to find tokens to use, I need to buy groceries anyway, but the last time I went looking for poker chips I couldn't find any. In a pinch, I could print up some "money" on the computer. I am trying to figure out if I start taking away time for the first scream, or if I do some sort of warning, suggestions?

The second is the Allowance Plan. They'll start out with $2/week (which is pretty low compared to the "average" allowance for kids their age) and if they want more, they gotta earn it, I made a list of possibilities. Not behavior-related stuff, though, more like general household maintenance stuff. Although I did add in "3 bites of a new food" in there because we do have issue with that. I think the easiest way to handle it is to get a roll of quarters and hand them out on the spot, the kids don't have a good sense of waiting. Even though when they're adults they won't get paid that way, for now I'm thinking it will be more effective. I am also adding in something specific for the boys- having their teacher (or para) sign a note every Friday if they've turned in all their work on time. This is a big problem for us. I figure that's worth an extra buck right there.

The problem I always have is the follow-thru a couple weeks down the road, so I'm hoping that being accountable to others will help me out.

If you hear excessive amounts of groaning and whining in the air this afternoon, it will be coming from my house.

 

[mechurchlady]

Can we add the children of parents with behavior problems. My mother is undiagnosed for anything mental and trust me that lady has spent most of her time near or in the spectrum. I am an adult with my own behavior problems and am a challenge.

Great Idea for the plans.
As adults bad behavior ends in loss of wages, income, early death, illness, wrecked family and home life, social outcast, and worst the loss of freedom to jail or a mental ward. I like your plan because they are learning that good behavior is rewarded and bad is punished just like when they are adults. I use that with mom like she was really good tonight so she got chocolate cake and a new book. When she is in her snit fits I don't give her the special goodies like cornbread, carrot cake and muffins. She gets the plain meals on bad days and she is sensing that if she annoys me then it is nuked meal day, yuk. She has gotten better because she is finally realizing that hissy fits get her no where fast.

As for the first scream I don't know if that is right. Is it a screaming fit because little brother showed big brother a picture of something that freaks him out or is it a fit over not getting one's way. I am not a mom so my opinion really does not matter but I think in the beginning a couple of warnings then punishment. First know the why behind the problem as kids can be like Tweety Bird in that they are so cute and sweet but inside is a demon bent on driving that poor cat up the walls and get it into trouble.

Big hugs and chocolates and dole whips
Laurie

 

[Minnie M6]

Becky,
We implemented a chip system early last year which worked well for a while (unfortunately I am terrible at follow through so even when we find a system that works I tend to start strong and then drop the ball).

We found the poker chips at WalMart back in the board and card game section. Each child had a container for red chips and one for blue chips. They started with a certain number of blue chips each week, and each chip "bought" them 30 minutes of video game or computer time. They could earn extra time on the computer or video games by reading 30 minutes once their chips were gone. It was pretty cool to hear them thinking through whether they wanted to spend a chip now or save it for later. It took all the decisions off of me.

The red chips they earned at the end of each day based on a chart that had daily expectations (I put both chores and behavioral things on the chart). At the end of the week, they turned in the red chips for their allowance. I don't remember how much each chip was worth- maybe a quarter.

As far as the fighting issue, I'm no help- DS and DD argue and fight constantly. I tend to get really agitated right when they start and separate them before I turn into a screaming mean mom.

Hope you find a system that works, and thanks for starting the new thread.....I think it will be a great help!

Amy

 

[KirstenB]

Becky, I like both these ideas. I'm a softy, but I'd give 1 warning before taking a chip away for the computer/wii. Like if they were at work, and a new policy were implemented, a good manager will allow for some adjustment.

I like the idea of chips. They're tangible and pretty indestructible. They could also serve as a fidget toy. Can you tell I'm taking notes for our future use??

 

[BeckyScott]

mechurchlady, you can certainly join in for your mom.

As far as the screaming, there are two causes. One is that this is what Justin does for a tantrum, he doesn't fling around or anything, he just screams. Frankly, it's worn on every last nerve I have. And then the boys scream when they are arguing. Which is often. I think giving a warning is fair enough, just wanted to make sure I wasn't being wimpy.

I couldn't find any poker chips at Wally World, and I did look by the playing cards and games. I did find (if anyone is interested) in the party supply section bags of fake gold coins, like for a pirate birthday party. But I know we had bought a bag of them maybe a year ago, one of the boys wanted them, so I suspect there are some lurking around our house already. I wouldn't want them to hit a treasure trove one day and me stuck trying to figure out where all the coins came from. So for now I will just whip up something on the computer. If they wear out, easy enough to replace.

 

[mechurchlady]

The next time a kid screams for 90 minutes I WANT BOK CHOY whip out the hunting muffs, lol. What is good for the gosling is good for the goose.

Right now mom is really really good since she heard me purging this morning. Food again. It is strange that if she wants something it has to be NOW but then she is really good later. She does have empathy in her but when she wants something or if she is on a track like talking about something on the news then I could stand there on fire and not get her empathy. I just need to get her to focus once in a while. Will have to make a special dinner.

Hugs Becky and you are doing a great job. The hard part is that it is a long term repetitive thing which means you might fail. As said the apple does not fall from the tree.You are going to have to battle your own quirks and stick to the regime and you are going to have to play FAIR. If one child gets punished or rewarded for something then the other will probably remind you that they were given too much punishment or not enough reward the next time. I will try to cheer you on and and send you some dole whips which help on the dark days. Whips are good when kids are bad, yep, you eat a dole whip and relax.

Ooh I found a cheerleader uniform in 3X but if you hear of earthquakes in my area you know what happened.

GO Becky GO
You are the one.
GO Becky Go
Yeah Becky and all the people at disboards.

hugs
Laurie

 

[bouncycat]

My ds's class uses a daily point sheet, I use that as my radar for computer/playstation/outside play. He has a daily goal he has to make, which means doing his work, etc. If she doesn't meet that goal, he doesn't get his priveledges. If he does meet the goal, then he does get those, AFTER he's done his homework and his chore...which is emptying the dishwasher. My dh left for his patrol the beginning of november, and told ds that he's the man of the house and has to look after mom now while he's gone....so ds has been doing alot of the things dh does, like take out the trash, etc. which is NICE!!! There are times I dont' even have to ask!! The past month have been the best, and he has been rewarded nicely for it. (he's earning spending money for disney day next week) He's earned over $21 already! I'm so proud. Anyways, I think the token or chip idea is a GREAT idea! That keeps track of their times and stuff, with 2, it's gotta be alot harder then keeping track of one. and one MAJOR thing I've learned is the FOLLOW THRU!!! That's important. It's easy to get them to stop yelling is to give in, my ds went thru a door slamming phase, and i told him he does it one more time, and i'm taking his door off...and I DID!! he had to change without a door on. He didn't like that one bit!! Remember even if it's more work for you, FOLLOW THRU! It does make life easier in the long run, it's been over a year and ds hasn't slammed a door!!!

 

[C&G'sMama]

We haven't used a chip system. I'm the wimpy one (but I've gotten better) DP is the tough one. FYI, DP is koolaidmoms so you may see posts from both of us. But we each have a slightly different perspective. We agree overall but like all parents we have different styles.

We do take away privileges and give him warnings beforehand. To me it's so hard sometimes because they get in this zone and can't get out. Last night it was the Bok Choy and tonight it was not being able to go to the Y for Kids Night Out because he doesn't have a bubble. He was told he wouldn't go to gymnastics if he didn't stop and he stopped. There are other times he doesn't stop so he misses out. The kids get 2 hours of screen time a day (except on school days). So their screen time gets taken away if they misbehave. And that works. But sometimes nothing works, I could take away every prvilege in the world. And really that's the time I take a time out and he goes to his room and screams it out. But he's 5 now, I'm guessing it will look different when he's older.

I feel I don't have as much to offer to those with the older kids because you've been through the 5 year old stage. But it's nice to get ideas from those that have been there.

 

[koolaidmoms]

We haven't used a chip system. I'm the wimpy one (but I've gotten better) DP is the tough one. FYI, DP is koolaidmoms so you may see posts from both of us.

The kids get 2 hours of screen time a day (except on school days).

Okay. Whose children are you talking about? It is 1/2 hour not 2 Hours! Twenty minutes on computer or 1/2 hour of television. No wonder they like it better when Mama is home with them!

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Becky- try the tickets they sell for raffles, drawings, etc. They are in the office supply section of Wal-Mart and how much fun is it to count out tickets, tear them off, and throw them away at the end of the week. I can't do poker chips because they end up everywhere. It's like going to Chuck E. Cheese (stomach flu, anyone?). With 2 kids, just tear off one side for 1st and give other side to #2 (you know the tickets they use for door prizes where you write your info on one and keep the one with the # on it?)

My kids fight a lot, too. I am completely at a loss as to what to do. Most of it is DS being loud and unable to keep his hands to himself. He just can't stop touching EVERYONE!!! He gets in trouble for that a lot at school. I know it's sensory, because he will grab my arm hard when we are out in public and ask me to grab his arm back harder. After a week in WDW in December, my right arm was 6 inches longer than my left and black and blue the entire length of it (and I'm mean and try to keep him from grabbing me!!!)

If his sister and I hate it, then my poor dogs are going to go insane. We have 2 pugs and a Rottweiler/Great Dane cross and he is so mean to the big dog that I pray she only takes half his arm off just to teach him a lesson (she puts up with his constant hitting- she's kind of a big oof). I got 2 sibling pugs from the rescue this fall, hoping 2 would keep DS occupied, but he only likes the female and is constantly grabbing her to sit in his lap. That's not bad, but he can't sit still with the dog and is always flipping her ears or hugging her too hard. Most of the times, she runs when she sees him coming. I guess it's better than the flea infested back-yard puppy mill she and her brother came from, but I know she is trying to like my son, because she loves sitting with him when he wakes up in the AM and is very calm.

I'm yelling, pleading, time-outing, taking away stuff, showing him how much he hurts by doing the same things back to him, all to no avail. When he's in the zone where he needs to be physical, nothing works.

 

[DisDreaminMom]

Oh, in regards to your OP, with my NT DD, tickets and rewards work super. She can weigh the consequences, etc. But sometimes I think DS gets in a "storm" and just can't help it. He likes to scream (just for fun, mostly) and I don't even think he realizes he does it, it just comes out. Some times of the day it's terrible, and he can also go for a few days without doing it. I can tell when it's coming. So how do you punish something like that?

And for mine, getting a ticket or a sticker, etc. is not concrete enough. I have to take away whatever is in his hand AT THE MOMENT, because that's what he's focused on and I don't think he can relate a lost chip now to less "stuff" later. I like it when we have a Disney trip planned though. I can say, "Do you want me to call Mickey and cancel?" It totally worked. This is why I must go to WDW at least 2 times a year...Awfully expensive reward system...

On the fighting front- If I get mean to my kids and make some outrageous punishment, it makes them both mad at me and turns enemies into allies. This way they are working together to keep me from killing them or soothing their feelings talking about how horrible I am. Maybe you are trying to be too fair and making them compete for favors? I used to punish one or the other according to the infraction, but then they squabble about the perpetrator. Now I punish both and it makes them less apt to a). be loud enough so I can hear and b). escalate to the point that I intervene.

Bookworm, where are you? We need your input on this.

 

[mechurchlady]

Okay. Whose children are you talking about? It is 1/2 hour not 2 Hours! Twenty minutes on computer or 1/2 hour of television. No wonder they like it better when Mama is home with them!

Too funny
Class take notes that all members of the family must know the rules.

Having only a 5-year-old does not keep you from contribuing. I have an 83 year old mother who probably is spectrum or some other disorder. I am 51 and spend long holidays in the spectrum and am SI/SPD. I do not have kids, God is so wise, but that does not mean I cannot share my past dealings with kids as well as my viewpoint form someone with quirks. Juts because you do not have an older kid does not mean you cannot come up with answers and great help.

As for the zone or what I call the darkness it is very hard to get out. Today I was bad food sick and still am not recovered. I sat in the zone/darkness playing gin and needed 5 games to win a badge. I knew I was sick, sleepless, tired, in the darkness, and should quit but I had to get that badge and beat them cheating hording rotten bots. All I had to do was click the red X but I just could not let go and do so.

As for the dog he needs to learn that his actions can hurt. Bookworm has explained this over and over but you know I forget. He can help with teaching the kid to be empathic and learn to be nice to pets. I would never wish a dog would bite a kid though as I doubt that will do any good and the mess would be bad for the kid. sigh

 

[BeckyScott]

DisDreaminMom, last year I came home from Disney with a heat rash on my right forearm because DS wouldn't let go of me! It was so hot and his little sweaty hand didn't let go of me for 8 straight days. And it made me really upset, cause I'd gotten a nice tan down there, but when the heat rash healed the skin was very pale and I looked pretty silly.

And bouncycat, the only interior doors we have are the bathroom and our bedroom. Both kids "lost" their doors a long time ago, in much the same way. They used to slam them or play games with one on one side and one on the other and not being very careful. I have a co-worker who lost the tip of her finger playing a silly game with her son and the door. But I warned them to stop or the doors were going away, and they didn't listen. They don't have closet doors either, because they'd do the same thing, and they were those irritating sliding doors that jump track very easily, so away those went too.

 

[C&G'sMama]

Okay. Whose children are you talking about? It is 1/2 hour not 2 Hours! Twenty minutes on computer or 1/2 hour of television. No wonder they like it better when Mama is home with them!

Oh...

 

[C&G'sMama]

And social inappropiateness.

Last night DP, DS and I were out to dinner (DD was at the Y). He got a regular sized milkshake. Usually they give him a kid size at this place. He looks at the waiter "Steven, do you have a brain? Don't you know I'm only 5? Why did you give me a grown up milkshake?". Fortunately Steven is the next door neighbor kid. But man, those ones kill me. He's just being his usual "no filter" self. You tell him it's inappropriate but it doesn't seem to carryover to the next inappropriate comment.

 

[Forevryoung]

Door Slamming: My dad fixed that one in a way I will never forget- it was traumatizing at the time (BUT it worked for 20+ years). I was 4 and my sister was 1. I was slamming doors and my parents were afraid that my sister's hand/finger would be hurt one day soon.

Dad took a carrot, stuck it in the door jam and told me to slam the door. I slammed it. The carrot split in 2 with carrot pulp on the door. He told me that is what would happen to my sisters little fingers. He then told me to slam it again. I was apparently so terrified that I refused and ran to my mom crying. I still remember the event to this day.

 

[DisDreaminMom]

PP, that's classic. Incredible. I've got to figure out how to apply that to the fact that if you squeeze a pug's head too hard, there is a great chance that their eyeballs will pop right out. Explaining that to DS seems to have no impact, though I'm sure actual event would make us all pass out.

 

[bookwormde]

C&G’sMama. Way funny story about the milkshake. This is really very much at the essence of what it is to be aspie (and to have to deal with neurotypical society). We view the world from a position of reason, rules,logic and facts (as we see them) and are compelled (really driven) to not let errors go buy without pointing them out (why wouldn’t someone want us to point them out so they could do it correctly). Over time being bombarded with logical and factual inaccuracies almost always makes an aspie “short” with people when this happens, basically the neurotypical world sets up “rules” and then chooses to ignore them all the time as well as obvious facts, as they do with any level of precision, Ask someone the time and you almost always get a “close enough” answer. Over the years I have managed to avoid telling people “they are stupid” or something similar in all but the moist egregious violation of rules or logic (which has the potential to cause significant harm), not that I do not point out the error but I have leaned to phrase it in a way that they do not realize I just told them they are incorrect until later (actually they probably come to the realization that I in a fashion called them “stupid” but it is just a lot more subtle). And it is not that I really think they are stupid but more that it is just too much effort for them to be correct. I work on this regularly with my son, so he can let people know when he thinks they are incorrect but do it in a more “thoughtful” way. My 20 YO niece still tells people all the time that they are “stupid”, for some reason she look so sweet and unassuming that she still “gets away with it”. I would compare it to a parent whose child keeps doing the same thing incorrectly (or breaking a rule) over and over again when you know the they know what is correct but do it anyway, is it right to call them “stupid”, of course not, but the frustration comes out in some fashion. I guess in the end it is not that we consider anyone stupid but just frustration that they are so factually (and rule) lazy.


bookwormde

 

[C&G'sMama]

Thank you Bookwormde

We struggle because we know it is how he is wired but also are trying to teach him what is and is not appropriate. We have a friend with a daughter with Asperger's. She's 13 and our friend took her out with DD's friend and DD's friend says "Hi Mrs. Smith, my that's an ugly blouse your wearing" and she has other stories but it helps us with frame of reference. I myself have always felt the need to correct someone if what they say wasn't 100 percent accurate. Well it wasn't 10:00, it was actually 10:30. Well it wasn't 100 miles it was 110. Drives DP crazy and I have gotten much better about it. As an aside I have a family member (a "married in") that wants to do a case study on our family if she ever goes for her PhD (or just for fun). She works in Special Education and now works for the state they live in and she specializes in the Spectrum. We have one nephew diagnosed on the spectrum but she is convinced there are several in the family that are undiagnosed.

Thank you again. I am off to shovel so the kids can get to Religious Ed.

 

[BeckyScott]

Day One Report-

We had a little family meeting at noon.

First off, I made a few lists. List of things parents HAVE to do (you know, food, shelter, medical care etc), list of things parents don't have to do but may choose to do (buy toys, provide a computer, buy junky food etc), list of things kids HAVE to do (try their best at school, be respectful etc), list of things kids don't have to do because they're kids (pay the bills, get a full-time job etc) The kids sat staring at me like I was from Mars, trying to figure out where I was going with this whole lecture.

Then I explained our two plans and passed out the $2 and the computer/Wii coupons. They had a couple of good questions that I answered. Then oldest DS went into a complete melt-down over the idea that he has limited computer and Wii time, even if he is getting along with his brother. (this is completely my fault for letting it go as long as it has) He went in his room to mourn so I didn't hassle him about it, and got over himself about 1/2 hour later.

They then proceeded to do exactly what I thought they'd do, which is that the two of them got along swell for the entire day, and they used up more than 1/7 of their coupons. As they started to cash them in, I told each one every time that they needed to be very careful because the coupons had to last until next Saturday and I didn't want to hear about it when they ran out. Yes they can earn more, but they won't add up very quick. They did get off of stuff when the timer ran out, but mostly what they'd do is cash in another 15 minutes.

DS's friend called and was on some game they play together, so DS cashed in 30 minutes to do that. It was funny to hear him on the phone, he told his friend he only had 1/2 hour, that his mom... mumble mumble... take the phone to a different room...

By bedtime, oldest DS "decided" that he didn't care about extra allowance (so he says now) so he wasn't going to do any of the extra money things, only the things that got him extra computer time. Youngest DS is quite enamoured with the idea of shiny quarters, so he earned an extra helping me pick up the living room.

So far so good, although about Wednesday when they both run out of coupons, all heck is going to break loose.