Beginning in January - 18% Gratuity....

[dzneelvr]

I'm trying to make sense of all the information on this subject , but the one thread under the DDP that was exactly what I needed has been closed....is party size a requirement? I've read yes--6 and no--any party under DDE is part of the new requirement. That will make a huge difference to us as a party of 4.
We don't purchase the program for a 0-2% savings. Ridiculous We love WDW, but I'm SO disappointed by this! The good news is our card is "free" this trip because we're going twice in a 12-month period, but we won't renew and I forsee this entire program going down the tubes as there's no longer a real incentive. I'll be checking on other options come 2009. Too bad

 

[Mackey Mouse]

From what I have seen here and read, if I have it right.. it will be DDE after January 1, no matter what size the party is, will have the added 18% gratuity to their bill.

One poster put it simply like this: "18 percent automatic gratuity in 2008 = DDE members, cast member discount, parties of 6 or more no matter how they pay."
__________________

 

[dzneelvr]

Thanks Mackay! I guess this just hit me wrong tonight....It seems that most of our discounts have been slowly eroded or eliminated over the years and it makes it difficult to be cost-effective for annual trips when you have 2 kids in private colleges (I'm not complaining, just stating facts) We truly enjoy our summer vacations to WDW but may have to look at the "off season" times so we can take advantage of lower resort rates and use our VISA reward dollars and AP to a greater advantage. I REFUSE to stay offsite! Take care everyone! WE'll see you at WDW in June 08

 

[Disney MAINEiac]

We don't purchase the program for a 0-2% savings. Ridiculous

I still see it as a savings of 20%, because I know going in I will leave a tip, (usually 20% - I just leave the amount the bill was with the discount still in). What I don't like is being told I don't have a choice to determine what an appropriate gratuity will be for the service provided. This is no longer a gratuity, but rather a service charge as others have pointed out.

As I stated earlier I won't be leaving the extra tip I would normally leave to bring it up from 18% to 20%....Hmmm, maybe this means I will now realize a 22% savings? Fuzzy math anyone?

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Trust me, I hear you on this. To me it is about choices......I like to make my own decisions and an automatic gratuity takes that choice away from me. It is not about the money, it is the principle, which I have said many times on this thread.

I think tomorrow we will see more answers from Disney, an official answer probably posted on the Dis by those who do the content for the Dis, and hopefully I and all the others who sent emails will get a response from Disney.

 

[Beca]

I still see it as a savings of 20%, because I know going in I will leave a tip, (usually 20% - I just leave the amount the bill was with the discount still in). What I don't like is being told I don't have a choice to determine what an appropriate gratuity will be for the service provided. This is no longer a gratuity, but rather a service charge as others have pointed out.

As I stated earlier I won't be leaving the extra tip I would normally leave to bring it up from 18% to 20%....Hmmm, maybe this means I will now realize a 22% savings? Fuzzy math anyone?

I agree!! For us, the DDE discount just got larger by 2%!! I think the only people who are truly upset are those who routinely tip less than 18%, and those who like to control their tips.

I, like many others waited tables all through college. I am exceedingly nice to servers, and usually find that I have exceedingly nice servers in return. In fact, the only place I have routinely found "average" service is at San Angel....I am not sure why?? However, my take on things is a little different than others who have posted here. If I am unhappy with service at a restaurant, I do not usually wait to speak to a manager at the end of the meal. Instead, I will often get up and find the server. I will usually let them them know that we need (insert whatever items here), and if that doesn't work, I will often employ the help of anyone else I can find (host/hostess, expediter, bus staff, manager, whoever....it does not matter). My dh has sometimes wanted to crawl under the table and hide. Granted, I can count on one hand the number of times I have EVER had to do this, and I can only think of one time at WDW where I had to do this (yes, it was San Angel).

However, I KNOW how restaurants work. If an expediter has to refill ice teas for customers who are desperate enough to walk up to them and ask, you can bet the situation is going to be remedied right there. The expediter might make a comment to the wait person, or he/she might go straight to the MOD and relate what is going on. Everytime I have had to resort to this, I have had the manager at my table SUPER quick. I have often noted the manager watching over us for the rest of the meal and/or coming by our table periodically to check on us.

Personally, I do not think anyone ought to endure bad service in a restaurant without saying something before the meal ends. Yes, you can show your displeasure by leaving a small, or non-existent tip....but, you have still paid dearly for that meal, and at WDW it will have an effect (albeit a small one) on your vacation.

Wait staff make so little, that I feel ANYTIME you need to leave less than 18% (fine dining), it should be a situation where the manager is involved.

That being said, I will admit that I used to not leave buffet servers 20% at WDW. Before traveling there, I have never been to a buffet restaurant where the servers there were making "tipped employee minimum wage". The servers of every buffet I have ever been to, or worked at (besides WDW) were making non-tipped minimum wage, so tips were simply a "bonus". To me, it was kind of like Pei Wei....we tip there, but not nearly 20%.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Never mind - will repost when I make sense

 

[m_kasch]

I have been reading this thread since friday, but haven't posted until now. I guess I just don't see the big deal. I understand the people that are upset about the principal of the matter...it does stink being told what to do. But, weren't most people leaving at least that much tip anyways? I guess my biggest confusion is with the people that are saying that this takes away the discount? How is that, exactly? You still get the 20% off, and then you leave a tip. Same as before...only now you are being "forced" to leave the tip. Right?

So, I guess what I am thinking is that I agree that it is wrong for Disney to tell us that we HAVE to leave 18%, but that I don't think it takes away from the discount at all, just our choice about the tip...and that the DDE is still a great deal. If that makes any sense at all, LOL.

 

[Dizserver]

Where and when do you work. What's your name. I want you as my server.

What has changed for the servers in the last year and a half? Unfortunately for us, exceptional service now is hard to come by. Is it the additional business due to the DDP? New servers? Larger sections, less servers?

Thanks

I am not aware of an overall "downtrend" in Disney server service. However, if it is indeed the case, one very plausible explanation is the demand for dining. We all know that with DDP so solid these past few years, demand for table service restaurants is at an all time high. Many restaurnats have no walk-in availability - you have to book weeks in advance, if not months.

With high demand and overcrowded lobbies and long wait times comes pressure on servers to turn their tables quickly. This can equate to bad service unless the server is skilled at their craft and fast on their feet.

The other issue is that with more restaurants open at Disney and in Orlando in general, it is harder for Disney as a company to sustain that highest level of cast member it hires. When you have 100 server positions to hire for, you can be choosy. When you have 2,000 (not an actual number, just an example), you take whoever you can get.

As I said in my post before, I love my job. As a frequent guest at Disney myself on my days off, I love the company's ideals and "magic" and the atmosphere and experience of being in the parks. I try my best to bring this enthusiasm to work for me, and even though I work hard, I enjoy my job and enjoy doing the best I can. There are many of us still out there, and hopefully we outnumber the rotten eggs that seep through the cracks.

 

[Dizserver]

Just out of curiosity, for those of you worried about service declining, at what point are you telling them you have a DDE card? I usually don't say anything until the end of the meal when I get ready to pay (I typically just pay what the original bill was without the discount, which gave the server 20%, and I typically pay with cash, so they just have to bring my card back). With the DDP, the server needs to know in advance to know what you are entitled to eat on the plan, but the DDE is just a discount card. So if I continue to wait until the end of the meal to present my card, I should get the same quality of service (good or bad) during the meal that I would have gotten if I were just a cash customer.

Ths is a very good point. If you are truly worried about service because of DDE card, simply dont mention it til you go to pay. Simple as that.

 

[Dizserver]

I am wondering if, in order to add the automatic gratuity to the bill, members might now be required to present their DDE card prior to ordering.

I doubt it because they could figure the gratuity at the same time they figure the discount. But it'll depend on the way they set up the computers in the restaurants.

I think I prefer to give the servers the benefit of a doubt rather than assume that they will see that card and think "Okay, I can slack off on this table because they have to tip me anyway."

Im trying to answer these questions piecemeal as I read through.

Disney servers cannot add gratuity to a bill until we have rung in all the food. If we need to add more food (like desserts), we'd have to have a manager remove the gratuity, ring the new food items, then re-add the gratuity. As such, no server will add the gratuity until he/she is sure all food has been ordered and they are ready to present the check.

To answer another question, yes most check-in podium locations are asking "Are you on a meal plan or dining discount plan?"

DDE customers, off the record I am saying if you feel worried about your service, simply answer no. Then when the check is presented, present your DDE card - the server will go to the computer, add the gratuity and then swipe your discount. This is the procedure for all cast member discounts as well (the same 20% with an auto 18% grat). We rarely know we have cast members until after presenting rhe check. Many cast members likely fear bad service too so stay hush-hush about their auto-grat discount until the last moment. Do the same thing. That is my best advice, again if you are worried about service.

Again, my belief is that bad service is due to bad servers, not whether your tip is included already. I am fine to agree to disagree on this point - I can only judge on how I personally serve my tables and what I observe with my fellow servers.

For those who disagree with this on principle, the best thing you can do is to write to Disney by snail mail. Seriously, Disney takes all complaints and compliments by snail mail very seriously - it shows a level of time commitment and passion that firing an email lacks. Cast members are recognized by their leaders/managers when a guest takes the time to write a letter of praise via snail mail/post office mail. I am quite sure the same is true of complaints.

 

[Dizserver]

I'm sure buffet servers would disagree with you - maybe Dizserver knows one who will post here with her/his experiences?
As for lounge service - how much DO you tip the bartender who made your drink? Eighteen percent of a $5 drink is ninety cents; 18% of an $8 drink is $1.44. An $11 drink would approach incurring a $2 tip.

I am not a buffet server. I do know buffet servers stand to lose out the most on the DDP changes (no included gratuity), precisely because almost everyone says "I will still tip 18-20% except buffets". I don't disagree with this mentality - after all, why tip so high when we get up and get our own food over and over.

I have been told that buffet servers usually have a few more seats in their sections than the rest of us - say 5 tables with 22 seats instead of 4 tables with 16 seats - just an example. However, I am a bit naive on this so don't take my word as the truth - just what I have been told which may or may not be accurate. If they do have more seats, than being tipped less is offset by having more guests.

On the flip side, buffet workers may have to "pre-bus" a table many times over (that means clear finished plates and empty drink cups from the table). I know I may go up to the buffet 4 or 5 times, getting a little bit each time. That's 5+ plates the server clears for me, and if Im on a different schedule than the rest of the table - well you can imagine a buffet server could be clearing something off the table every single time they even walk by - makes for lots of long walks to the kitchen/dishroom. As such, I have been told that buffet serving is not as easy as it seems, but I cant speak from personal experience.

 

[Dizserver]

I suspect the wait staff does very well at some of the higher class restaurants. I'm only guessing, but I suspect an average server handles 6 tables at a time. If the average bill is $100, then the tip is $18. Average table stay is 1.5 hours, so that's about $70/hr in tip revenue. 40/hr week = $2800. 48 weeks per year = $135k! I realize that the tip is shared amongst the kitchen help and buss staff, but that still isn't a bad living. And then you consider they only claim 8% of that not the 18%, and it really gets good. Now granted, I suspect the wait staff at Breakfastasaurus don't do nearly as well.

I have heard that in some very high class restaurants, (not WDW), that the wait staff actually has to pay the restaurant owner a fee to work there. They can easily make a 6 figure salary.

It could happen, but not the norm at all. In reality, except in buffets, servers are not given more than 4 tables, sometimes 3. Higher end restaurnats are usually only open for dinner, so working 4 nights a week is only 25-30 hours a week. Servers aren't making tips the first or last hour of their shift (while doing opening and closing restaurant sidework). Tips are shared with bussers, bartenders, and food runners. Tables arent immediately sat after one party leaves - they are assigned in rotation and their is a downtime while the table is bussed, sanitized, swept and reset. Their is further downtime when the whole party isnt in the lobby when called (in restroom for example).

On paper, things seem great. In reality, usually not so. Yes, a table of 6 adults may spend $200+ - nice tip! Or that table may have 2 adults, 2 kids and 2 infants (free), and the adults split a sandwich and the bill is $35. Not quite so good a tip there.

Not to discredit what you are saying, I just think it is overexaggerated. Yes, some very high-end restaurants servers will do very well WDW or elsewhere. But most Disney servers wait on more kids and infants than they do adults - kids and infant meals at Kona Cafe don't add up to the same tips as adult meals at California Grill

To be more informational, Disney hasn't hired a new full-time server in over 5 years (an issue of paying health and retirement benefits). Thus, your average Disney server is part-time, works 25 hours/week at Disney, struggles with seniority to get the more profitable dinner shifts, and has a second job away from Disney.

Having said all that, I don't doubt a very few Disney servers may make 6 figures a year - they are full-timers at a very high-end restaurant at the Grand Floridian wink wink. Not me, lol.

 

[Dizserver]

There are thousands of postings here from people asking the same questions about the DDP over and over and over. If they can't figure that out, yes there will be double tipping.

It would be interesting for one of the server members to fess up and tell us how much it happens.

I averge about 1 or 2 double-tips a week on DDP right now. A clear double tip is when the gratuity is say $15, and they leave $15 cash as well.

To be honest, as a server, it makes me feel better when someone who has included gratuity (DDP or large party of 8 or more) leaves me like $3-$4 extra. I know they aren't "double-tipping" but rather saying "well-done, here's a tad bit extra as a thank you". That is a good feeling.

If you pay your check witha credit card (unlike DDP), the copy you sign will clearly say "GRATUITIES INCLUDED" just above where it will say "tip optional". It will be very hard to miss this when signing the bill and thus "double-tipping" will be very very rare on DDE, unlike DDP. As an example, I have never been double-tipped by a party of 8 or more who payed by credit card, nor by a cast member who recieved their discount with the auto-gratuity.

Of course, next year, DDP double-tipping will be non-existent.

 

[Charleyann]

Charging 18% on Buffets is crazy! Tipping somone for a glass of water or soda pop etc?

Tipping is thanks for a job well done! Mandatory graditudes is a charge....


Charleyann

 

[bicker]

Mandatory graditudes is a charge....

Which reduces any concern about the situation down to a concern about wording, which is really not worth getting upset about.

 

[Charleyann]

Which reduces any concern about the situation down to a concern about wording, which is really not worth getting upset about.

Merely stating 18% tip is ridiculous for prehaps just a glass of water...I like many others here will do what Disney says, as we love this place. May not agree but we come back!

Charleyann

 

[Uncleromulus]

As I understand things from all the WDW servers I know, Dizserver is absolutely correct. NO server at WDW wanted this. Virtually none of them voted for it. The WDW Company and the Union came up with this for reasons all their own. The servers cannot help being outvoted, and to suggest this is somehow their co-responsiblity for just being in the union and voting seems a stretch...

 

[bicker]

Merely stating 18% tip is ridiculous for prehaps just a glass of water...I like many others here will do what Disney says, as we love this place. May not agree but we come back!

And that's really what it all comes down to -- the 18% is legitimize by nothing more than the fact that folks pay it and come back. There can be no more clear communication to Disney that they're doing the right thing.

 

[bicker]

The servers cannot help being outvoted, and to suggest this is somehow their co-responsiblity for just being in the union and voting seems a stretch...

We'll just have to agree to disagree. It's like me saying that it is my boss' fault that we're developing our product using old technology. He's making his decisions for his reasons. I'm making my reasons to stay at the job for my reasons. It's all about personal responsibility.

In the end, all I'm saying is that there is no basis to blame the company. They did what they were supposed to do. Again, "blame" is the culprit here. Don't blame anyone, because blame is inappropriate in this case. No one did anything wrong.