Baron-You're right about the vacuums!!

[BRERALEX]

and if you happen to actually see some painting being done,

i just got back from 7 long days at disney and the painting of the rocks in tommorrowland bothered me. it looked horrible and the guys painting looked pretty unproffesional.

and the princess stuff everywhere sucked @$$.

and i almost got into the hotseat for a second time but they had no more shows after i was number 1. but i dont blame disney i just wanted to bring it up.

 

[raidermatt]

Pete, I know your using a "bit" of hyperbole for effect...

But still, its a tad bit difficult to ignore the Bradley Fighting Hoovers when one can no longer carry on their conversation, or hear the park music because of the noise.

Its just bad Show no matter how you look at it.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

i just got back from 7 long days at disney and the painting of the rocks in tommorrowland bothered me. it looked horrible and the guys painting looked pretty unproffesional.

Did you go to City Hall and complain? These are the types of complaints I lodge. Never about some ride breaking down or some other incidental problem. Nothing little!! Only big ticket items!! Vacuums! The Wand! Capricious hours of attractions. The HAT!! The dirty toilets! And this one would have been perfect!! PHILOSOPHY ITEMS ONLY!!!

I'm always amazed at the look on the CM's face when I state it. Most of the time, they are thinking the same things. I remember when I complained about the HAT in the Studios when they were first building it. There were three CMs in guest services. I was the only guest (it was rather late). I entered, and as they were not busy at all, they all jumped to hear my problem.

I started by saying, it's pretty serious!! It could very well spell doom and destruction for the entire Disney Company and life as we know it.

They started to dig for their fast passes as there was quite a problem earlier at R&RC (which I handled at the time).

I told them to put away their fast passes; it would cost them much more. Then I said, "That hat's got to go!!!"

They just looked at me, their eyes wide. They asked if I was serious. I said I was. I said I wanted to make out a formal compaint!!

Then they laughed, covered their name tags with their hands and said they agreed!! They told me I was the first one to complain about it though!! They wished more would.

I said, "The hat's got to go and it'll take more than a couple of fast passes to appease this guest!! I want you to take that horrible thing down!! ---- NOW!!" I sat down and said, "I'll wait!"

Again they had a giggle and we started talking about things in general. After a while I reminded them that I wanted to lodge a formal complaint. The one guy jumped behind the desk and grabbed the form. He looked around quickly and said, "Let us do it!"

So the three of them, with me, filled out the form and degraded the hat as best we could. Anyway, it never works, but I always feel better.

I wish more would it. Maybe, just maybe, if more....



Oh yeah! I almost forgot my second rule. NEVER TAKE ANYTHING FOR IT!!! Disney is great at trying to pay you off. I don’t accept it! EVER!!! Instead I ask for Phil Holmes phone number. And I always get it!!

 

[Peter Pirate]

You're such a pip!

Here you are regailing us again with the "your perspective is right" spiel. How rich. So you don't like the hat? So what? I like it and my family likes it and we spend more days and I'd venture more money at WDW each year than you so perhaps our opinion should count more? I'm kidding, of course, but who the heck are you to make an issue out of this like it's meaningful? You have great love for WDW, this can't be disputed, and I'll even admit that your displeasure with painting during business hours or vacums vacuming before closing have a definite legitimacy...But a subjective opinion like the hat? Give it a rest, my friend. You aren't Walt and you didn't know Walt so I don't think you have much credibility in acting like you are the "Kingdom Keeper" or something...

And as for passing up the fastpasses, I'll bet this doesn't even impress the CM's...

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Peter


Peter


PETER!



PETER!!!!


Did you take tour meds today? You're coming off, talking to me as if I was frozen, if you know what I mean.

Just take the pill and try another post in the morning.

OK?

 

[Peter Pirate]

Sorry.

 

[Demosthenes]

Well, I kind of agree with Peter's post. I don't like the hat, and I don't like the wand (I've often wondered if the disembodied foot of Sorcerer Mickey will appear next in AK followed by his giant floating head to hide that old nasty, outdated castle at MK. Seriously, if they wanted to make a special Icon for the 100 years of magic celebration at MGM, why not put the hat on it's rightful place on the earful tower?) but these are subjective opinions that stray from the Baron's valid philosophical complaints about show. The vacuums are bad show, painting in front of the public is bad show, empty old attractions is bad show, I even argue that motor coaches are pretty bad show. The icons are just bad taste, IMHO.

 

[crusader]

Baron,

Demonsthenes couldn't have said it any better regarding your remarks here which clearly are:

valid philosophical complaints about show.

I am mainly focusing on two key issues: Painting (or any other form of maintenance) which detracts from the guest's experience; and

the Hoover issue which I have yet to determine whether this is policy related or non-compliance.

Both of these are strong examples of anti-Disney philosophy which need to be voiced to the company. Whether or not they are adequately addressed is a bigger problem but there is strength in numbers and if enough guests take issue, the company may very well respond. Lobbying can be a very powerful tool when effectively instituted.

Baron has started the ball rolling, the rest only have to pick it up and run with it beyond simply agreeing here on the boards.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Complaining about specific issues like shortend hours, painting during the day / visible to the guests or uproareous vacums are one thing...Complaining about Disney's choice of an icon, which is purely subjective, borders on ridiculous. Heck you might as well flood Town Hall with complaints about the Florida humidity or the low cost Florida resident AP... Both of these things probably bother some folks about WDW, as well...

The beauty of a grass roots movement, like what happened with the early entry / character caravan fiasco, was its specificity and obvious unanimity. But if guests are encouraged to make a BIG DEAL about every single item they personally don't like about WDW the net result will be less credibility for all complaints...

Thanks Demosthenes for being able to agree with a specific point in contrast to your personal POV...

 

[crusader]

But if guests are encouraged to make a BIG DEAL about every single item they personally don't like about WDW the net result will be less credibility for all complaints...

Point taken and if I happened to convey that impression it was was not intended. But you have to really give the consumer more credit here - most of us are not inclined to lodge any compliants (let alone make a BIG DEAL about subjective issues) which is why specific targets get heard when many voices sound off. I do believe the two key items identified fall within that framework beyond subjective banter. The ball's in play, but it appears to be only over here - which does very little.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I don't dispute the view you're taking here and I think it is the correct road to be travelled...My response was to my good friend DVCMayheneverbeBaron who specifically included as BIG TICKET complaint items the Wand and Hat...To which I believe no amount of complaining will have any effect...And actually were we as a group (as small as we actually may be) start to complain voiciferously about this type of item (the hat) our actual voice of dissent (again, however small that may be) will only diminish further.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Complaining about Disney's choice of an icon, which is purely subjective, borders on ridiculous.

Oh my goodness...........here I go giving Peter more reason to call us DVC-Disney LandKidds .

I respectfully disagree with you Peter...............and it ain't often I do that.

Fact of the matter is that Disney imagineers and architects spent a hell of a lot of time, energy and money to create an atmosphere. That is what Disney used to do best. All the architecture along Hollywood Boulevard, the signs, the billboards, all of it.......right up to that full scale replica of the Chinese Theatre, was intended to create something specific, something special. Arguments about MGM not opening as a full park aside, Disney was very successful in this aspect of the park. That walk down Hollywood Boulevard, strolling in front of the Theatre, the old Hollywood movie music playing....................it WAS quite special.

With the quick, shortsighted, and irresposnsible construction of that monstrosity of a hat they wiped out one of the most important and successful aspects of the park. Maybe a lot of people didn't realize that, maybe they never realized how special this aspect of the park was...............but all that stuff that was originally built was not just thrown in willy nilly. No, the hat effectively flushed a lot of people's hard work and creativeity down the crapper.

It isn't about the Icon itself..............it is about the placement, and the lack of creativity, attention to deatail, and Show that it represents. But I bet they sell al lot of sno*............er........um, plush out of the thing .

* I can't believe I almost said that .

PS. With regard to complaining about the hat I agree................

To which I believe no amount of complaining will have any effect

..................but that doesn't mean you shouldn't stand up for what you, and Disney, used to believe in, even if it is only to make yourself feel better about having your voice heard by only a few sympathetic CM's.

 

[Peter Pirate]

We don't really disagree too much, even on this. My only point is that I don't believe complaining about the hat will lead to its demise. It's there for a reason, whether some of us like it or not, and it will be removed after it is outdated or otherwise in the way. But I don't think a rash of complaints about the ugly hat will hasten its removal. As crusader point out, we don't really complain en masse anyway so I think it more useful to make your complaints on something more logical (may not be the right word) like park hours, vacums or transportation efficiency. Do you really think a guest complaint campaign could affect something like the hat or the wand?

 

[DisneyKidds]

Do you really think a guest complaint campaign could affect something like the hat or the wand?

No.

Do you really think Baron believes that it could?

I suspect no.......................but I'm sure it made him feel good to register the complaint. Sometimes that is enough. Add to that the fact that he got to converse and commiserate with three CM's, sit down with them, have fun filling out a form...............that actually sounds pretty cool. Sometimes interaction with CM's, for whatever reason, can be extremely fun and a great part of your experience. I think that story from Baron was a pretty cool one........................even if he is a crotchety old man who can't get his @ss out of 1971 .

 

[raidermatt]

Certainly a flood of complaints does not carry the same weight as a flood of cash remaining in wallets. But still, if you believe that Disney has even an ounce of customer focus left in them, you must also believe they would take note of large numbers of complaints.

Its kinda funny... If Disney were holding true to Walt's vision (updated for modern times of course), they would certainly take note of unhappy customers, even if those customers were still spending money. However, if they were holding true to Walt's vision, they wouldn't have put the darn hat there in the first place...

Its true that whether one likes the BAH or not is purely subjective, but the part that is really not subjective at all is that the reasoning behind its development and placement was flawed.

And for the umpteenth time, that does not mean you can't enjoy your vacation at WDW, or even like the BAH...

 

[Demosthenes]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds

Fact of the matter is that Disney imagineers and architects spent a hell of a lot of time, energy and money to create an atmosphere. That is what Disney used to do best. All the architecture along Hollywood Boulevard, the signs, the billboards, all of it.......right up to that full scale replica of the Chinese Theatre, was intended to create something specific, something special. Arguments about MGM not opening as a full park aside, Disney was very successful in this aspect of the park. That walk down Hollywood Boulevard, strolling in front of the Theatre, the old Hollywood movie music playing....................it WAS quite special.

With the quick, shortsighted, and irresponsible construction of that monstrosity of a hat they wiped out one of the most important and successful aspects of the park.

I’m already on record as disapproving of the hat, and I’m the first to admit that the replica of the Chinese Theatre is vastly superior to the it; however, the giant hat at the end of Hollywood Boulevard is no more damaging to the theming and detail of this area of the park than Cinderella’s Castle is to the theming and detail of Main Street USA. A fairy tale castle is as appropriate for a centerpiece to a turn of the century American town as a giant Sorcerer Mickey hat is to a 1930’s view of Hollywood. But both icons fit the cohesive theme of their respective parks (the fairy tale castle fits the theme of a magic kingdom better than Sorcerer Mickey, but both still fit), but neither matches the theme of the main thoroughfare of its particular locale. And (playing devil’s advocate here) one could certainly argue that the Mickey hat is a more recognizable movie image than the theatre is.

 

[donald@home]

The difference between the hat and the castle is that Main Street and the castle were designed to work together, a fairy tale castle framed by a fairy tale Main Street. The castle was designed with wonderful intricate detail as was Main Street, which visually ties the two. Also, there is a distance between the end of Main Street and the entrance of the castle that softens the transition, filled with trees to help with scale. Plus, As you get closer to the castle, more and more details come into view, which keeps the view of the castle always changing. The hat, on the other hand, is obviously squeezed into the space IN FRONT of the original building that worked like the castle. The new addition totally throws the scale and forced perspective off overwhelming the carefully scaled down version of Hollywood Blvd because it is too close to the end of the street. If the hat and the street were designed at the same time, I think the designers would have placed it in such a way as to achieve a better effect. Plus, there is no ornate detail on the hat as there is on Hollywood Blvd, which does nothing to help tie these two elements together (the street and the hat) the way Main Street and the castle work together. When you first see the hat it is just one HUGE flat hat overwhelming a scaled down street, and when you get closer you see a closer, HUGE flat hat. The experience and effect of the castle are very different.

Complaining might not get the ugly thing torn down, but it might keep something this ugly and out of place from being built someplace else in the future.

 

[Demosthenes]

Originally posted by donald@home
The experience and effect of the castle are very different.

Complaining might not get the ugly thing torn down, but it might keep something this ugly and out of place from being built someplace else in the future.

As I've already stated, I don't like the hat. I don't think it is done well, and I agree with you that the hat has no where near the positive impact or creative detail of the castle. I just don't agree that the BAH does anything to ruin the charm or detail of Hollywood Blvd. It's an eyesore, and it's a mistake. I agree that if it (God forbid) turns out to be a permanent addition that the design and execution of the hat will have a lasting negative impact on the area, just as the birthday cake castle would have had a permanent negative impact on the MK. But as a temporary icon for a celebration, it is poor taste and poor judgment to me; but it may be the "symbol for the exciting center of the celebration of Walt's birthday" for someone else (as described in last year's planning video). I can only hope that the hat and the wand will one day disappear. And I do agree that when that happens, it will restore my impression of what a WDW theme park should look like. But in the end, all of this is subjective. What you or I like or don't like about the decor or detail of a theme park is a wholly separate issue from poor service and maintenance standards. If Disney truly sees itself as a show (with cast members and all) then keep the stagehands behind the scenes; I don't expect to see the set being painted, or the gels (read: light bulbs) being changed, or the theatre being cleaned while I'm still in it. All of that should go on backstage, after hours and outside the awareness of the audience. As for complaining about the hat, I agree with Peter Pirate when he said:

I think it more useful to make your complaints on something more logical (may not be the right word) like park hours, vacuums or transportation efficiency.

Though, I’d replace logical with relevant .

 

[HB2K]

Though, I’d replace logical with relevant

I'd also replace relevant with fixable.

This will suprise some but...I agree with Peter (but I see the other's point...complaining about the hat might prevent another mostrosity from cropping up somewhere else....but you would think they would have learned that from the whole castle cake debacle).

The park is not going to rip down the hat. Period. It's just not happening. It cost too much and was put there for a reason. Whether that reason is valid (cough, cough it's not cough cough) is another topic....

The park hours, maintenance, etc are changes that can be reversed.....the monstrosity known as the hat cannot.

 

[raidermatt]

The park hours, maintenance, etc are changes that can be reversed.....the monstrosity known as the hat cannot.

Me thinks you are dismissing this a bit to quickly, my friend.

Yes, the hat cost money, and yes, there was some cell on some spreadsheet that showed it was a good idea.

But if there are enough complaints, and more to the point, a new spreadsheet shows that the BAH is really not accomplishing what it was supposed to, and was doing more harm than good, of course it would go.

Disney had no qualms about shutting down CoP during a Walt celebration, so I'm sure they have no emotional attachment to the BAH.

The question is, will there be enough complaints, and more to the point, will there be enough of a tangible negative impact to override whatever reason they had for putting the thing in.

That's why it is important to voice your opinion, but even more importantly, to point out how it impacts your spending or possible spending. (Don't like to buy stuff that shows the hat, or makes you less likely to visit, whatever)

That's really no different than complaints about shorter hours or decreased maintenance. Those decisions have cells on the spreadsheet too, just like the BAH's cell.