Bankruptcy advice and opinions - all welcome

Electric: around $70 (on a budget plan, it was just reduced but will go up again in December)
Gas: around $60 (budget plan)
Cable/Phone/Internet: $180 (need internet for job searches)
Cell phone: $70 (need to keep as number is listed on resume)
Water/Sewer: about $75 every other month
Mortgage: about $840
HOA: $75
2nd Mortgage: $300
CC1: $129
CC2: $144
CC3: $118
CC4: $102

That's just the basics, we no longer have health insurance and we both take several prescriptions (just delivered prescription assistance forms to my doctor) so those costs as well as costs to live (gas, groceries, etc) are not included. I will be contacting my auto insurance carrier to change the coverage to try to maintain coverage.

My temporary job has hours from 9-5 and is about 45 minutes from home. The schedule is irregular (no set days off) but 40 hours per week and I have requested (and gotten) "regular" overtime. By the time I get home, I'm simply too exhausted to do another job (I'm not as young as I used to be). This job is doing a number on me physically. It might get better if it becomes permanent and I get used to it, but right now I simply don't have the strength/energy.

I do wonder how long it will be before things are "normal"...I guess that status varies as much as the people defining it though, huh?

I'm a little confused. It looks like most of your bills are monthly and won't be discharged in a bancruptcy..I don't understand how a mortgage and 2nd mortgage work in those situations..would you lose your house and then need to find a rental? It looks like the only real dischargeable things are 4 very small CC unless I'm reading something wrong. You say 'we'. Is that you and a spouse or child?
 
What we really don't know is how much her income is. Is the difference in bills $50/month or $500/month?

Do you have any 401ks? Just wondering what your assets are. Can you sell your house and use that money to pay off debt and buy something smaller or rent for a while? Although your mortgages are very low. Here in No VA, you could barely rent anything for what you're paying in both mortgages. I'm a problem solver by nature and wouldn't give up til I found a way to pay, but that's just me.
 
I'm a little confused. U\It looks like most of your bills are monthly and won't be discharged in a bancruptcy..I don't understand how a mortgage and 2nd mortgage work in those situations..would you lose your house and then need to find a rental? It looks like the only real dischargeable things are 4 very small CC unless I'm reading something wrong. You say 'we'. Is that you an a spouse or child?

I think her credit card payments are a minimum of almost $500 a month. I am no expert on CC minimum payments but I would think you would have a lot of debt to have your minimum payments be that high.
 
I think her credit card payments are a minimum of almost $500 a month. I am no expert on CC minimum payments but I would think you would have a lot of debt to have your minimum payments be that high.

Depending on the card and interest rate, it's probably in the neighborhood of 10-15K.
 

What field would your permanent job be in if you found one in your desired field? I have never declared bankruptcy so I'm only going to address the part about finding a good job. If its a field in which you will be dealing with alot of money (banker, accountant etc) or a field that you have access to information that some not-so-u-and-up people would want to buy (security, government contracting, police etc) then it will be difficult. Most of these kind of positions look at bankruptcy records and credit reports.
 
I think her credit card payments are a minimum of almost $500 a month. I am no expert on CC minimum payments but I would think you would have a lot of debt to have your minimum payments be that high.

The real question on the credit card debt is... if you didn't have any of the credit cards. Would you be able to pay everything else and all food/clothing/etc without the use of credit cards? If not then bankruptcy may not really get you out of the situation and you just really need more income or less expenses.

If you can pay all the bills without the credit cards bankruptcy may be what you need.
 
Keep in mind also bankruptcy costs money to hire a lawyer. Bankruptcy is used to protect other assets from creditors. What asset will you be trying to protect / save your house?

Can you make the monthly house payments without the other CC debt? You can put your credit cards into forbearance (just stop paying them until you get back on your feet) while you look for another job or additional work.

You need to cut cable and drop your phone / internet down to the minimum.

I would not file Bankruptcy until a creditor forces you to do so, ie sues you and then tries to collect via wage garnishments.
 
My sincere sympathies. I've had the good fortune to never walk in those particular shoes.

Let's talk jobs. What sort of job did you do? What skills do you have? What sort of additional training would be necessary to get you a similar, or equal paying, job?
 
OP I don't really have any advice. Just wanted to say I'm in the same boat so I totally understand. I haven't decided wheter or not to file yet. I just can't bring myself to it. :sad: But at the end of the day, I have $0 available for food, clothes, gas, etc. I don't think I can go on like this for much longer.

Keep your head up
 
To know whether Bankruptcy is smart, it would help to assess your overall debt. The impact of BK might not be worth it for the day to day stuff, like electric and cable, etc. (although, you can always use the public library for internet if you want to get really down to bolts. It may not be the best option, but it's a good way to bank cash). The day to day bills like electric, gas, etc will still be there the day after you settle your bankruptcy. But, they may not be as accessible if you move, since many electric companies will do a credit check before offering service, or ask you to pay ahead rather than be billed. Life does change. Your auto insurance will go up. You will not get the best rate for your mortgage. The debt would have to be pretty big to make all of that worth it.

But, if you owe upwards of $100,000 or more on your credit cards, I can see it being worth it.

CCCS is helpful, but bear in mind they are paid for by the credit card companies. When the credit card companies foot the bill, the advice is leaning toward the company, not the individual, so please be careful in accepting their advice.

Since you still have internet now, I would check out a few Dave Ramsay podcasts. He is tough, but if you follow his advice, you can dig yourself out of impossible situations with your pride intact.

Good luck in finding a permanent position. It's tough out there right now. I'm sure you're doing all you can to cut costs, and that isn't easy.
 
I'm also posting under a different ID we made the choice to file a few months ago. It was a very painful and heart wrenching choice as we always have been one's to make sure our bills were paid on time. We consulting many different lawyers. what brought us to this point hubby hours at work were cut big time. I was working a full time and part time job it was not enough to stay afloat. Why you ask we made some very bad choices with our debt and along top of that had huge medical bills due to a illness I had that is now in remission but the bills are still there and they want there money. On top of this we had cc bills and when we tried to work with the cc companies is was a joke they would lower our payments by 2 dollars and on top of that they raise the interest rates sky high all this after never being late for over 20 years. So the choice was made and we feel better now yes there will be issues that will come up but we are now a cash only family don't have it don't need it for anything we think we need when it is really just a want. We can now pay cash for food gas and heat for our homes plus have money aside for those emergency. This experience has forced us to take a hard look at how we were living and have given up keeping up with the Jones. Trust me there is more of us out there then you know and a lot more a just one paycheck away from it happening to them. Just this week a report was issue the Americans have charged more in the month of May then ever before experts believe it is just a sign of things to come as more and more people are charging everyday living items to there cards due to lack of jobs or lower paying jobs.

I'm sorry if If I sound like I'm on a soapbox but when companies file Bankruptcy after a CEO drives the company into the ground after raking in millions and many people loose there job it seems like us Americans just take it all in stride and it's no big deal after all we bailed out those banks who would have gone belly up but let a neighbor friend or relative do it and they are looked upon as they are dirt. Why is that?

I will not live anymore worrying what my FICO score is I'm not a number and will never be remembered by that number. Please do not judge us who have made that choice which was the best for us to start rebuilding our lives as one day you might walk in our shoes.
 
I'm sorry if If I sound like I'm on a soapbox but when companies file Bankruptcy after a CEO drives the company into the ground after raking in millions and many people loose there job it seems like us Americans just take it all in stride and it's no big deal after all we bailed out those banks who would have gone belly up but let a neighbor friend or relative do it and they are looked upon as they are dirt. Why is that?

I will not live anymore worrying what my FICO score is I'm not a number and will never be remembered by that number. Please do not judge us who have made that choice which was the best for us to start rebuilding our lives as one day you might walk in our shoes.

Most companies file "reorganization" which does NOT absolve them of their debt. It's simply a restructuring. It's not the same thing as filing personal bankruptcy. As for bailing out the banks, I personally dont' believe anything is "too big to fail".
 
Most companies file "reorganization" which does NOT absolve them of their debt. It's simply a restructuring. It's not the same thing as filing personal bankruptcy. As for bailing out the banks, I personally dont' believe anything is "too big to fail".


Yes you are right about that although a lot workers do loose there jobs as I have seen it happen in my home state. One city in my state has now cut every city workers pay down to minimum wage that's firefighter/police/emt etc because they don't have the money to pay them. My hearts go out to those families.
 
I think her credit card payments are a minimum of almost $500 a month. I am no expert on CC minimum payments but I would think you would have a lot of debt to have your minimum payments be that high.

OH! Those are minimums...DOH...that's what I get for reading it so early..I thought those amounts were total due...yes $500 month minimums on CC would be scary.
 
Whew! You all were busy today! Thanks for all the comments. I'll try to answer some questions as well as try to explain my thoughts.

First, let me say i used to be a Paralegal working on bankruptcies and please, please, PLEASE file as a VERY last resort. It is not something you can take back and will affect pretty much every aspect of your life and, depending on age, your children's' lives as well (college loans, etc.) As for jobs, whether they check for bankruptcy or not depends on your occupation. My brother is a forensic chemist and is currently trying to get a job with a prominent police department. They are even checking bankruptcy, criminal records, etc. on my parents and my husband and I!!

Thank you. I know the tone of my posts is probably a little flippant - but I'm at the point where if I don't laugh, I'll cry.

To be honest, I don't think I have any other resorts to seek. And after reading advice/comments here and somewhere else, I'm beginning to think bankruptcy isn't going to help me anyway.

A lot of shows can be viewed online a day or two after their air-date. I always miss a show that I like and watch it the next day on the channels website. Just an idea to maybe make it easier for you to cancel cable. Netflix is another option, however I don't really find much on there that I like, my kids watch it on a regular basis though.

Good luck with whatever you decide, either way you go you will have a long road ahead of you.

Thanks! I've just talked to my husband (for all that were wondering who the "we" is ;) ) and he's looking into options for us.

I'm a little confused. It looks like most of your bills are monthly and won't be discharged in a bancruptcy..I don't understand how a mortgage and 2nd mortgage work in those situations..would you lose your house and then need to find a rental? It looks like the only real dischargeable things are 4 very small CC unless I'm reading something wrong. You say 'we'. Is that you and a spouse or child?

You bring up a good point - and I'm starting to realize that you may be onto something. There is not enough cash flow to pay the monthly expenses period. With the CCCS lady we went through the "budget" (based on information I got from bills, statements, and my bank). Even if I quit paying CC's, I'm still about $1500 short on all regular expenses (house, utilities, gas, groceries, medicines, etc). There simply isn't enough to go around.

What we really don't know is how much her income is. Is the difference in bills $50/month or $500/month?

Do you have any 401ks? Just wondering what your assets are. Can you sell your house and use that money to pay off debt and buy something smaller or rent for a while? Although your mortgages are very low. Here in No VA, you could barely rent anything for what you're paying in both mortgages. I'm a problem solver by nature and wouldn't give up til I found a way to pay, but that's just me.

My income is 1/3 of what it was previously and I'll say that we are now well below the poverty limit.

I do have a 401k and another retirement account. I do not plan to touch those since they would only provide a temporary (i.e. a month or two) solution and would essentially rob me of any security in the future. I'm not willing to risk that.

I think her credit card payments are a minimum of almost $500 a month. I am no expert on CC minimum payments but I would think you would have a lot of debt to have your minimum payments be that high.

Yes, the amounts posted are the minimums. I have more CC debt than I would like, obviously and until I lost my job, I was able to make the payments...and try to make some headway in paying them off. That was my goal.

What field would your permanent job be in if you found one in your desired field? I have never declared bankruptcy so I'm only going to address the part about finding a good job. If its a field in which you will be dealing with alot of money (banker, accountant etc) or a field that you have access to information that some not-so-u-and-up people would want to buy (security, government contracting, police etc) then it will be difficult. Most of these kind of positions look at bankruptcy records and credit reports.

I'd rather not post my field - suffice to say it is highly technical but not one that has ever checked my credit for a job.

Seems the summer was a bit slow for the job search but it is now picking up a bit. There's a chance for an interview for three jobs hopefully soon, and I'm waiting to hear from some others.

Keep in mind also bankruptcy costs money to hire a lawyer. Bankruptcy is used to protect other assets from creditors. What asset will you be trying to protect / save your house?

Can you make the monthly house payments without the other CC debt? You can put your credit cards into forbearance (just stop paying them until you get back on your feet) while you look for another job or additional work.

You need to cut cable and drop your phone / internet down to the minimum.

I would not file Bankruptcy until a creditor forces you to do so, ie sues you and then tries to collect via wage garnishments.

I'm beginning to see this last statment may be where I am headed. The only asset I'm trying to save is my house - selling and renting would not be a viable option in this market. My plan was to try to pay just the house payment but really, that's a stretch for us to do and still have gas, groceries, medications, and insurance.

OH! Those are minimums...DOH...that's what I get for reading it so early..I thought those amounts were total due...yes $500 month minimums on CC would be scary.

LOL! They're still less than my mortgage! :rotfl:

In all seriousness, the economy has hit us hard and we have had other situations that have made our CC debt skyrocket over the past 5 years or so. I was managing it until I lost my job.
 
Please consult a BK attorney so you can get an informed position before you do anything! Retirement accounts are safe from BK. Also, there are 2 types...Ch 7 and Ch 13. Chapter 7 resolves you of your personal debt (with some exceptions like student loans) and Chapter 13 is a reorganization where you repay a percentage from 0% to 100% of your debt over 5 years. Don't make any rush decisions or make drastic changes in bills, etc until you have all your info. If you do file, you should plan ahead pursuant to legal advice.

www.creditboards.com is very helpful.

Good luck!

Jill in CO
 
Here goes:
1. I'm sorry you're in this situation. That sucks big time. :(
2. Make every possible means now to save money.
a. You do not NEED internet and cable. You want it. Is there a library nearby? Use it for internet services. FREE. Basic tv sucks when you're used to cable, but it'll be worth it.
b. Cut your car insurance down. You might have to pay more for an emergency, but thankfully that is rare.
c. COUPON. Buy stuff cheap. Store brand, coupons, sales only. I DO NOT pay full price for meats- go early in the morning (9-10am) when they've been marked down. Go ahead and cook them or freeze them. Check to see if there is an Angel Food Network place near you. It's cheap and you get a TON of food!
d. When you're at the library using your FREE internet, check out Dave Ramsey's books. They're incredible resources from someone who has been there!
e. If you attend church, tithe. As backwards as it seems when you're struggling for money, tithe. You will be provided for! We seem to struggle the most financially when we don't tithe.
 
I filed bankruptcy several years ago after an ugly divorce... so I can speak from experience here...

There is no way, if I couldn't afford food or basic necessities, that I would have cable or any other luxury item. Contrary to popular belief, cell phones are not a necessity.

I still see some ways you can cut back and I have been there, done that. You lost your job or were fired? What about unemployment benefits if you were laid off? Also- if you are well under poverty line then you should qualify for welfare right? Selling your home in this market isn't ideal- but neither is foreclosure. Cashing out your 401k because you want future security is a moot point when your car can't be filled with gas today and the lights are going to be turned off.

I don't know you- but based on the little I've read, you need to accept that you're going to have to do things you don't want to do, go without lots of things you want, and accept the severity of your situation. Bankruptcy is horrible, by the way, and should only be last resort... you still have cable and a cell phone... you haven't reached your last resort point yet.
 
Hubby and I looked at bankruptcy awhile back as an option when I lost my job. My concern about filing Chapter 13 bankruptcy was losing control of our finances- basically having the decision about how I spend my money made for me by the courts for 5 years. With my parents living in another state, I did not want to be budgeted so tightly that I could not afford to fly home if one of them were ill, etc.
I negotiated a settlement with a couple of our credit cards myself. I started couponing and looking for ways to cut expenses. I know settling credit cards is damaging to your credit , but so is bankruptcy.
It might have been "easier" to file Chapter 13 at the time, but for us it would have been a knee jerk reaction to a short term problem.
I agree with other posters that you don't have a lot to "discharge" in a bankruptcy. Not sure if it will help you. I think you cut to the bone for now, look at ways of making extra income ( can hubby work a 2nd job? ) and apply for any government assistance you might qualify for .
 
Some people also mistakenly believe if they file bankruptcy ALL their debt will just go away. That's just not true. Are you thinking Chapter 7 or 13?

OP, do you have anything you can sell to pay off debt? Jewelry? Collectibles? Anything? The reason I asked about your 401k's is because most people have their savings there and don't have anything in the bank for emergencies. If that's the case, you have to be willing to use that money just like you would savings in a true emergency, which this is. DH and I have a lot in 401K's and our plan if he loses his job is to borrow against mine which would give us at least a year in income to pay our bills. If I lose mine, not as big a deal because we can pay all our bills on his, it just means our cc's would have balances and would only get minimum payments. Also, if we had to sell our house to pay other debt, we would. And, we're 52 and 55, so getting close to retirement. We have planned ahead with our financial planner, just in case. You have to be prepared in this economy.

I also agree that cable and cell phones are luxuries. DH and I have discussed that also. We would cut to just local channels and cut our cell phones to the barest miniumum (only because we have a contract to finish with them). Also, if you contact your cc companies, most are willing to work something out.

You have said "us" and "we" on several occasions. Does your spouse work?

Also, if you are truly below the poverty level there are many programs to help you. Have you bothered to look into those? How old are you? If you have years to retirement, you have time to rebuild accounts, if you're close to retirement, you obviously dont' have enough in your accounts to retire on.
 















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