Ballpark payment on an $85K school loan

[bigmama67]

I haven't read all the posts...but I wanted to chime in. When DH and I got married (almost 15 years ago), he was in the midst of a Ph.D. program. He hasn't done much teaching with it since he quickly decided teaching wasn't for him. He does have a good job with a university now...in development...but he was looking for a job for almost 2.5 years after he finished a two-year visiting professor position. I can probably count on the fingers of both hands the number of months when we have both been gainfully employed at the same time, throughout our marriage. At the moment I've been unemployed for the past 5 months and we are only able to pay our mortgage because I was eligible for unemployment. Nevertheless, we are keeping our heads above water and making regular payments on his student loans (about $65K) though mine are in deferment (they total about $16K for my B.A. and M.A.) I wish I had been able to pay them off before we had our kids, but that's the way it is. As other posters have said, our debt is our debt - not "his and mine" - and I don't regret it for a second.

 

[winesis]

That's because parents (like the OP) don't know when to let go and allow kids to make decisions on their own. Some parents think they should be intimately involved in ALL aspects of their lives (again, like the OP).

I respectfully disagree! Her son is in school wanting to get engaged. Sounds like neither has graduated yet. Neither has a full time post graduate job. The girl has 85K in student loans. Add in a loan for the ring/wedding/honeymoon and you could easily double that debt. (NOT saying this is the case but if you assume the OP is demanding to be involved in ALL aspects of their lives and the decisions they are going to make, then hey I can assume this.)

It sounded like she was helping then budget living expenses, loans, saving for a wedding, etc. Maybe she is worried about how easy it is to get into more debt with credit cards. Maybe she is helping to get all the details so the kids can make their own decisions...

I have found that when you have involved parents, you have involved grandparents once you have kids. I would not want it any other way! Isn't that what families are for, to help each other out? Part of growing up and making your own decisions is to respectfully listen to the advice you are given, process the information you have, and then make your own decisions.

 

[kellia]

I think it is wonderful that this couple is actually looking at what will happen after the wedding! So many seem to get caught up in the ridiculously large wedding DAY and not look to what the MARRIAGE will be like. That is great that they are asking someone with experience how to plan ahead. I wish dh and I had done more of that, we had no idea in our early 20's what the "real world" was like and all of the expenses that come up. Money problems don't alway instantly trigger a divorce, but they don't make life fun for anyone!

No, of course it isn't a deal breaker, but it is certainly something to consider. You need to make sure that this person is going to want to pay off the debt, no one wants children immediately, etc. Student loans don't go away even though bankrupcy!

 

[SaraJayne]

I respectfully disagree! Her son is in school wanting to get engaged. Sounds like neither has graduated yet. Neither has a full time post graduate job. The girl has 85K in student loans. Add in a loan for the ring/wedding/honeymoon and you could easily double that debt. (NOT saying this is the case but if you assume the OP is demanding to be involved in ALL aspects of their lives and the decisions they are going to make, then hey I can assume this.)

It sounded like she was helping then budget living expenses, loans, saving for a wedding, etc. Maybe she is worried about how easy it is to get into more debt with credit cards. Maybe she is helping to get all the details so the kids can make their own decisions...

I have found that when you have involved parents, you have involved grandparents once you have kids. I would not want it any other way! Isn't that what families are for, to help each other out? Part of growing up and making your own decisions is to respectfully listen to the advice you are given, process the information you have, and then make your own decisions.

I may have missed it, but do her DS and his potential fiance want her involvement?

 

[crisi]

And just like most of the "regulars" around here are exceptions to the rule with regard to the handling of finances, I'd say that your sons are most definitely exceptions to the rule for their generation. Likely because their parents are exceptions to the rule.

Honestly, there always have been a lot of horror stories. I don't think its the kids that are different, but the world.

When I graduated from college, Citibank would let someone without a job going to college get a credit card - but no one I knew ever got more than a $3k credit limit. And it was Citibank - most banks didn't get into the student credit card market until after I was done with college (1988 for my first time).

When I went to college (again, the first time), there was a lot less "loan" in financial aid and a lot more work study and grant. College costs have been outstripping inflation for a long time.

I still, however, lived in a dorm with people who were spoiled and entitled. I still remember people expecting to walk out into $60-80k a year jobs (in 1988) with their bachelors. And I knew a lot of people with student loan debt.

If you don't qualify for any grant money, and decide not to do your first two years at a community college (which isn't always a great idea - it can work - but it also can NOT work) but instead go to a four year state school. And you don't have such a school close to home - it isn't unreasonable to spend $85k on a bachelors degree. It would cost pretty much that if my kids went to the University of Minnesota and lived in dorms. There are cheaper schools, but if your goal is to go on to grad school, a school like the University of Minnesota is a much better bet than a school like St. Cloud State - which would be cheaper - but isn't looking nearly as good on the grad school app. And goals change after four years.

 

[ccgirl]

She has been here with us this weekend and we are all trying to put together a budget for their premarital counseling requirements. All is out in the open. We are trying to help them figure out some minimum salary requirements so they can make sure they don't accept jobs that won't pay the bills. Neither has graduated yet but my son is in the process of putting resumes out there.

Ohhh...I would have liked something like that! All of my loans were consolidated with Sallie Mae. They totaled approx. $28K. They had a step program where every 5 years the minimum payment would go up. This was great for me as my salary would go up, I would pay more. Anyway, I am in the final "phase" so my payment is at its highest and is $225.00 a month. I remember it being around $125 when it first started out.

If you are looking for a "ballpark" I would use $800 but that can vary greatly depending on what kind of loans they are and the terms of the loan.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. And you are right, if you would automatically reject someone with debt, you very obviously have different values -- but I wouldn't be bragging about them!!!

Everyone's values about money are different. In a million years, I would never have married someone with a bunch of existing student loan debt. I would have expected him to get it retired BEFORE we got married, period. My parents busted their humps to make sure that my sister and I had our college paid for. I would have felt like I was slapping them in the face to enter into a marriage where I paid off someone else's loans. Even if I never told them about it, the guilt would have eaten at me. We are teaching our children the same thing. They are fortunate that we are paying for their school...don't take on someone else's student loan burden. If they value you, they'll retire it as fast as possible...THEN marry them.

It should REALLY make you cringe to know that my sister (a very successful professional) is insisting on a prenup Face it...50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Nobody enters into a marriage thinking that they'll be in that 50%. You can talk all you want about love being more important than money and debt, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that you don't want to own your ex-spouse's debt if you do end up divorced.

FWIW, my parents must have done a d@mn good job of teaching me how to manage money, because I was able to retrain my DH (who was brought up by spenders who are so far in the hole right now that they'll never get out), pay off all of our consumer debt quickly (we acquired it together after marriage - stupidly), and then pay off our home mortgage at the ripe old age of 26.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

Well, I can sympathize with her as that will be the total of my student loans when I'm all done this spring. That's at my state school with about $60,000 in scholarship money AND also a Pell Grant for my undergraduate degree.

I'm not overly concerned, though I wish it were less. The amount I have to pay will be capped by my income, and after 10 years whatever is left gets forgiven. Plus, there is loan forgiveness for special ed, and I think slp's in schools count. If it turns out to be overwhelming debt, I'll work summers in a hospital.

I just can't believe the people who think it was automatically financially irresponsible to take out student loans. You can't have a job in every program (with clinical hours and classes there is no time in my program. GTF positions are only for doc students who already have a Masters). Doctors get out of medical school with over a 100K in loans, but they make it.

Now if it's a degree in something with no income potential, then that's different . . .

I wouldn't say that it's financially irresponsible to take out student loan debt at all (unless you are majoring in the aforementioned underwater basketweaving). My argument is that if you take out the debt for a useful degree, pay off the debt BEFORE marrying. Don't enter into a marriage where your spouse will be responsible for your student loan debt. JMHO...

 

[crisi]

I wouldn't say that it's financially irresponsible to take out student loan debt at all (unless you are majoring in the aforementioned underwater basketweaving). My argument is that if you take out the debt for a useful degree, pay off the debt BEFORE marrying. Don't enter into a marriage where your spouse will be responsible for your student loan debt. JMHO...

I wouldn't think that is always practical. My friend married a cardiologist as he was working on his fellowship. He had a quarter of a million in loans. He'd been in school since he was 18 - and he was 35. He has, in addition to the MD, a masters in Electrical Engineering (he does pacemakers).

To postpone marriage would have meant postponing children. Neither of them were getting any younger. And even with as much money as he made once he started practicing, it took a FEW years to pay off $250k+

Now their oldest is a tween, his student loans are paid off, they have no debt. Believe it or not, cardiologist do ok, and those student loans are a pretty good investment.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I wouldn't think that is always practical. My friend married a cardiologist as he was working on his fellowship. He had a quarter of a million in loans. He'd been in school since he was 18 - and he was 35. He has, in addition to the MD, a masters in Electrical Engineering (he does pacemakers).

To postpone marriage would have meant postponing children. Neither of them were getting any younger. And even with as much money as he made once he started practicing, it took a FEW years to pay off $250k+

Now their oldest is a tween, his student loans are paid off, they have no debt. Believe it or not, cardiologist do ok, and those student loans are a pretty good investment.

This sort of thing might be the exception to the rule...he had fantastic earning potential at that point and did manage to wipe the loans out quickly.

Does the spouse's debt become your debt legally upon marriage? If so, I would have suggested a prenup. Honestly, though, at 35 I'd think that both spouses already have established careers and assets, so I'd suggest a prenup anyways.

 

[lilfroggie]

OP -As many others have commented, I think it's awesome that you have the type of relationship with your son to allow this discussion to even happen. Financial strife can really destroy marriages, and it's better to get it all out in the open now. I would also encourage, as others have commented, checking out Dave Ramsey and Financial Peace University. It may be a great "pre-engagement" gift

As for some the comments that came through...I am always stunned when people make assumptions (usually negative) or project their issues on someone else's situation on bulletin boards or other online social areas. As a society, this makes me wonder where we are headed. What has happened to social graces? Not saying anything if you've nothing nice to say? Instead, it seems when someone can hide behind a computer screen, they tend to say whatever comes to mind without any filters.

Wouldn't we all do better to always assume the best in people when they ask a question on these bulletin boards? Or maybe just answer the specific question and leave our opinions on what may or may not be happening to ourselves? Just some thoughts...getting off my soapbox now...

 

[luv2mickey]

Its not irresponsible to take student loan debt its irresponsible to be shocked when you have to pay it back and to be irresponsible in how you use the money.

 

[hoosiergirl7]

Everyone's values about money are different. In a million years, I would never have married someone with a bunch of existing student loan debt. I would have expected him to get it retired BEFORE we got married, period. My parents busted their humps to make sure that my sister and I had our college paid for. I would have felt like I was slapping them in the face to enter into a marriage where I paid off someone else's loans. Even if I never told them about it, the guilt would have eaten at me. We are teaching our children the same thing. They are fortunate that we are paying for their school...don't take on someone else's student loan burden. If they value you, they'll retire it as fast as possible...THEN marry them.

It should REALLY make you cringe to know that my sister (a very successful professional) is insisting on a prenup Face it...50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Nobody enters into a marriage thinking that they'll be in that 50%. You can talk all you want about love being more important than money and debt, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that you don't want to own your ex-spouse's debt if you do end up divorced.

FWIW, my parents must have done a d@mn good job of teaching me how to manage money, because I was able to retrain my DH (who was brought up by spenders who are so far in the hole right now that they'll never get out), pay off all of our consumer debt quickly (we acquired it together after marriage - stupidly), and then pay off our home mortgage at the ripe old age of 26.

I am so in your boat! My parents were the same with my college. We pretty much did what you did in your marriage too (acquired a bunch of stupid debt and paid it all off - never to do it again!).

I would never marry someone with that much student loan debt. When DH and I got married nearly 15 yrs ago, everything became ours. There is no his money or my money. I know the OP's son wants to get married but he shouldn't do it until she has the majority, if not all of it paid off.

DH is starting law school this fall after a nearly 21 yr career in the military. There will be absolutely NO student loans. We have saved enough money to cover expenses that he will not have covered by the GI Bill and scholarships. If we weren't doing it this way, he wouldn't be going.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

OP...

I applaud your son and his fiance for their willingness to seek advice. It sounds like they are preparing for pre-marital counseling which puts them ahead of the curve. It saddens me that people don't understand this is how successful families work. They pass down the benefits of experience and wisdom to the next generation. Advising a young couple on the initial set up of a household and budget is a fantastic gift, despite what comments you may receive.

Good luck!

 

[eliza61]

Everyone's values about money are different. In a million years, I would never have married someone with a bunch of existing student loan debt. I would have expected him to get it retired BEFORE we got married, period. My parents busted their humps to make sure that my sister and I had our college paid for. I would have felt like I was slapping them in the face to enter into a marriage where I paid off someone else's loans. Even if I never told them about it, the guilt would have eaten at me. We are teaching our children the same thing. They are fortunate that we are paying for their school...don't take on someone else's student loan burden. If they value you, they'll retire it as fast as possible...THEN marry them..

So you're saying how much they are valued and love is determined by how much they have in the bank? Really?
by that anology, some one who is poor must have absolutely no value as a spouse what so ever.

I wouldn't think that is always practical. My friend married a cardiologist as he was working on his fellowship. He had a quarter of a million in loans. He'd been in school since he was 18 - and he was 35. He has, in addition to the MD, a masters in Electrical Engineering (he does pacemakers).

Now their oldest is a tween, his student loans are paid off, they have no debt. Believe it or not, cardiologist do ok, and those student loans are a pretty good investment.

Ditto. I never understand where we get these "hard fast' rules. How does not having student loans equate to how much some one loves or values you?
Jeez,
I am back in school pursuing my passion. I took out a 10K student loan at the ripe old age of 50+. According to some of you, I guess I don't "Value" my husband of 26 years any more. because if I did I wouldn't have taken out the loan.
That's about the dumbest blanket statement I've heard in a long time.
Money is a tool. We discussed the pros and cons of taking out the loan, how long it would take to pay it off and whether it would be a good investment.

How about this. How about a couple actually talk and communicate with each other about the debt. Decide if this is some thing they are both comfortable with and go on from there. Discuss the future and what place debt will have in that future.

Oh and my mom was also another who took out a student loan after kids to go to law school. She ended up being one of many great civil rights lawyers who helped changed the lives of millions of African americans, many who are probably really glad she decided to take those loans out.

 

[klacey1]

\k in school pursuing my passion. I took out a 10K student loan at the ripe old age of 50+. According to some of you, I guess I don't "Value" my husband of 26 years any more. because if I did I wouldn't have taken out the loan.
That's about the dumbest blanket statement I've heard in a long time.
Money is a tool. We discussed the pros and cons of taking out the loan, how long it would take to pay it off and whether it would be a good investment.

How about this. How about a couple actually talk and communicate with each other about the debt. Decide if this is some thing they are both comfortable with and go on from there.

I agree with you completely. I am so grateful I am with my wonderful DBF (not engaged yet, saving for a down payment on a nicer place first) and he doesn't care about my student loan debt. My parents were too poor to pay for me to go to college-- by some of the PP's stance, should I just not have gone to college if it meant taking out loans? Now that I have debt, my DBF should run the other way? If we waited to get married until after I paid off my student loans, I'd be dangerously approaching the end of my child bearing years.
We budget well and live well. I am so thankful he is not like some of the people here. Ridiculous.
All I have to say is a couple of PP's are lucky (not better than anyone else, just lucky) that they had parents who could pay for all of their college. Some of us weren't, so we took the necessary steps to get a degree. Sue me.

 

[ccgirl]

I agree with you completely. I am so grateful I am with my wonderful DBF (not engaged yet, saving for a down payment on a nicer place first) and he doesn't care about my student loan debt. My parents were too poor to pay for me to go to college-- by some of the PP's stance, should I just not have gone to college if it meant taking out loans? Now that I have debt, my DBF should run the other way? If we waited to get married until after I paid off my student loans, I'd be dangerously approaching the end of my child bearing years.
We budget well and live well. I am so thankful he is not like some of the people here. Ridiculous.
All I have to say is a couple of PP's are lucky (not better than anyone else, just lucky) that they had parents who could pay for all of their college. Some of us weren't, so we took the necessary steps to get a degree. Sue me.

Right there with you! My mom was a single mom working 2 jobs and could barely put food on the table never mind pay for a college education for me. As a result, I had to go part time/full time, whatever I could. I still have student loans I am paying. My DH and myself dated for 9 years first and have been married for 11 now. We have 2 beautiful children ages 8 and 3. What we would have missed to wait until my student loans were paid (we're still paying by the way). Not once has he said anything about my student loans. So glad he loves me for me.

 

[Handbag Lady]

Why would the girl want anyone but herself to pay off the loans? I would never to go my husband for money or assume he'd pay for it or that "we'd" pay for it. My education, my loan, my bill. I bought a car and was $4k short of paying in full after taxes and fees. I'm paying that, not my husband.

And I'd be furious if my mother-in-law knew my business. But then again, I didn't ask.

 

[Spoodleink]

Everyone's values about money are different. In a million years, I would never have married someone with a bunch of existing student loan debt. I would have expected him to get it retired BEFORE we got married, period. My parents busted their humps to make sure that my sister and I had our college paid for. I would have felt like I was slapping them in the face to enter into a marriage where I paid off someone else's loans. Even if I never told them about it, the guilt would have eaten at me. We are teaching our children the same thing. They are fortunate that we are paying for their school...don't take on someone else's student loan burden. If they value you, they'll retire it as fast as possible...THEN marry them.

It should REALLY make you cringe to know that my sister (a very successful professional) is insisting on a prenup Face it...50 percent of marriages end in divorce. Nobody enters into a marriage thinking that they'll be in that 50%. You can talk all you want about love being more important than money and debt, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that you don't want to own your ex-spouse's debt if you do end up divorced.

FWIW, my parents must have done a d@mn good job of teaching me how to manage money, because I was able to retrain my DH (who was brought up by spenders who are so far in the hole right now that they'll never get out), pay off all of our consumer debt quickly (we acquired it together after marriage - stupidly), and then pay off our home mortgage at the ripe old age of 26.

My parents paid for me to go to school. I did up with about 6K in loans but my Mom paid it off for me a few months after I graduated. I also recived a very large cash gift for graduation from my grandma. My DH's parents did not help him at all with school he was suporrting himself from the time he turned 18. He did go to community college before attending his 4 year school. He graduated with about 18K in student loans and an other couple thousand in credit card debt. I started helping him pay of his loans before we were married. He wasn't just racking up debt for funsies it was the only way for him to get through school. My parents knew about his debt. They didn't consider it a slap in the face I was going to marry someone with debt. My parents always stressed that paying for higher ed was a gift and one they were lucky to be able to provide for us. In fact when we had been married about a year we were anticpating paying off the remaining 6K of DH's loans between or tax refund and bonuses when my car died and we had to use the money for a new car. When I was talking to my mom about it she offered to pay off the balance of his loans. Maybe she wouldn't have if she didn't know how hard he had worked to get through school and after he graduated. She just saw it again as a gift she was lucky enough to be in a postion to provide for a loved one.

 

[Spoodleink]

Why would the girl want anyone but herself to pay off the loans? I would never to go my husband for money or assume he'd pay for it or that "we'd" pay for it. My education, my loan, my bill. I bought a car and was $4k short of paying in full after taxes and fees. I'm paying that, not my husband.

And I'd be furious if my mother-in-law knew my business. But then again, I didn't ask.

Different people have different perspectives. I don't think she was asking anyone else to pay for it but it will affect both of them. Do you and your husband split every bill 50/50 or prorate it on how much water or electricity each of you used ? My Dh and I are on the same page finacially so all the money that comes in is ours and all the bill are ours.