backlash towards WS pavillions?

Originally posted by ChairborneRangr
If you want to protest France go to http://www.giveitback.net and sign the internet petition to give the statue of liberty back to them.

Whether or not the pavilion is sponsored by the french government the CMs working there are french citizens that have at least a passing interest in the US. Just ponder this... It is people like this that have a tendancy to become government leaders. The future president of the United States of America could be meeting for the first time the future President (Prime Minister?) of France right there is the WS.

Our actions in places like WS leave a lasting impression on these guests in our country. What if that is their only exposure to us "arrogant americans"? Wouldn't you rather them be able to say "I was around millions of americans for a year at DisneyWorld and I think you're wrong about them" rather than "yup, you're right. They are arrogant jerks"?

just my .02

Personally, I don't care what they think of us anymore. We saved their collective butts more than once. I am not interested in appeasing them. Besides, I don't think a few CM's experience is going to have much influence back in France. WWII sure didn't.

I should point out that I don't not prejudge everyone from France, the same as I don't prejudge Muslims. But the France pavillion is "representative" of France. Right now, I couldn't care less about their culture, their country, their history...and especially not their future.
 
Originally posted by WDSearcher
To those who hate the French -- those who are pouring wine down sewers and renaming French fries and avoiding the France pavilion out of "principle." Remember that one of our most enduring American symbols of freedom -- the Statue of Liberty -- was a gift from the French. Perhaps you'd all prefer it if we dismantled it and sent it back. I, for one, would prefer it stayed.

:earsboy:

Not that I'm saying we should dismantle it, but consider this analogy. A man gives a woman a diamond engagment ring, then cheats on her with another woman. Does the ring mean all that much now?

The Statue of Liberty has come to be a symbol inside and outside our country. The French didn't give it that symbolism, our country and our ideals did. The "gift" factor is irrelevant now.
 
What say I

I say the french saved our a _ _ during the American Revolution and We repaid the debt in WW2. Now the score even. I want NOTHING from the french. I say lets send the french a check for the Statue of Liberty as I would gladly contribute $ 100.00.
Searl
 
"I say the french saved our a _ _ during the American Revolution and We repaid the debt in WW2. "


Well..... without the french, MAYBE the Revolution has a different ending. And the Colonies desire for freedom wasn't the reason they helped us anyway.
 

Your absolutely correct KNWVIKING

The french did have ulterior motives as they and the Brits were sworn enemy’s. We also entered the War not to liberate france, but it was a by product of our fight with the germans. And to think now the same Dirt Bags that raped the women of france, and pillaged their country are now sleeping in the same bed.
It makes me want to vomit to think of all are young soldiers who died to liberate france. I’ll NEVER spend one penny on a french product.

Searl
 
Since most of you seem to be interested in boycotting the French I thought I would pass this along. I received the e-mail about a week ago.

My thoughts would be: If you are an American and you are employed by one of these companies are you expected to quit your job?? If you do not are you UNAMERICAN?? If you do how do you feed your family/pay bills (find another job) with the way the economy has been?? It is a tough call. You don't want to support the French, but on the other hand you don't want to put Americans out of work. Tough call.




I received a e-mail with a complete list of French products and French owned companies. If you are as unhappy with the French
President Chirac as I am here is your chance to participate in a
meaningful and expression of support for our military and
government in its action against Iraq and the action of the French in obstructing US efforts.

France has every right to disagree with America, but France has
moved from simple dissent to active hostility toward America. France President Chirac warned East European nations that if they sided with the US, France would oppose their membership in the European Union. This very week, William Safire reported in the New York Times that France has been secretly helping to arm Iraq and has been helping Irag build long range missiles. These same missiles may NOW possibly be used against our own US soldiers.

Just as France has exercised its right to disagree all Americans can exercise their right to boycott and helping countries that do not stand with us.

>>French Products and Companies to Boycott:
>>
>>Air France
>>Air Liquide
>>Airbus (airplanes in commericial use)
>>Alcatel
>>Allegra (allergy medication)
>>Aqualung - including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers andSeaQuest AXA Advisors Bank of the West (owned by BNP Paribas)
>>Beneteau (boats)
>>BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin)
>>BIC (razors, pens and lighters)
>>Biotherm (cosmetics of work.
>>Black Bush
>>Bollinger (champagne)
>>Car & Driver Magazine
>>Cartier
>>Chanel
>>Chivas Regal (scotch)
>>Christian Dior
>>Club Med (vacations)
>>Culligan (owned by Vivendi)
>>Dannon (yogurt and dairy foods)
>>DKNY
>>Dom Perigonon (champagne)
>>Durand Crystal
>>Elle Magazine
>>Essilor Optical Products
>>Evian
>>Fina (petroleum products) and Fina Oil (billions invested in Iraqi oil fields)
>>First Hawaiian Bank
>>George Magazine
>>Givenchy
>>Glenlivet (scotch)
>>Hennessy (liquor products)
>>Houghton Mifflin (books)
>>Jacobs Creek (owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989)
>>Jameson (whiskey)
>>Jerry Springer (talk show)
>>Krups (coffee and cappuccino makers)
>>Lancome - Le Creuset (cookware)
>>L'Oreal (health and beauty products)
>>Louis Vuitton
>>Marie Claire
>>Martel Cognac
>>Maybelline
>>Mephisto (shoes & clothes)
>>Michelin (tires & auto parts)
>>Mikasa (crystal and glass)
>>Moet (champagne)
>>Motel 6
>>Motown Records
>>MP3.com
>>Mumms (champagne)
>>Nissan (cars - majority owned by
>>Renault
>>Nivea
>>Normany Butter
>>Parents Magazine
>>Peugeot (automobiles)
>>Pierre Cardin
>>Playstation Magazine
>>ProScan (owned by Thomson Electronics - France)
>>Publicis Group (including Saatchi & Saatachi Advertising)
>>RCA (television & electronics - owned by Thomson Electronics -
France)
>>Red Magazine
>>Red Roof Inns (owned by Accor group in France)
>>Renault (automobiles)
>>Roquefort cheese (all Roquefort cheese is made in France)
>>Rowenta (toasters, irons, coffe makers,
>>Royal Canadian
>>Salomon (skis)
>>Sierra Software & Computer Games
>>Smart & Final
>>Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor group)
>>Sparkletts (water, owned by Danone)
>>Spencer Gifts.
>>Sundance Channel
>>Taylor Made (gold clubs & equipment)
>>Technicolor
>>T-Fal (kitchenware
>>Total Gas Stations
>>UbiSoft (computer games)
>>Uniroyal (tires)
>>Universal Studios (music, movies and amusement parks - owned by Vivendi
>>US Filter
>>Veritas Group
>>Veuve Clicquot Champagne
>>Vittel
>>Vivendi
>>Wild Turkey (bourbon)
>>Woman's Day Magazine
>>Yoplait (The French company Sodiaal owns a 50% stake)
>>Yves Saint Laurent
>>Zodia Inflatable Boats
>>
>>Lastly, a French compay was awarded a $700 million plus contract to operated the 55 mess halls of our US Marine facilities. Call your congressman and ask that this be rescended regardless of the cost. This is an absolute insult to our Marines.

This boycott has been promoted by NewsMax's and has been
frequently mentioned by Bill O'Reilly on the O'Reilly Factor.

If you will send this to at least 10 friends and relative to also
forward, it is possible to reach 100 million people in a very short time.
GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Here is a humorous E-Mail (not verified) that I am including because it seems relevant to the conversation...

Two interesting occurrences that, reportedly, are true :

When Charles DeGaulle ordered foreign troops off French soil, effectively moving NATO headquarters to Brussels, he was engaged in a conversation with Adlai Stevenson, then Secretary of State and famous later for confronting the Russians in the UN over the Cuban missiles.

DeGaul made the point that he had no need nor want of American troops in France. Stevenson responded with " does that include the graveyards at Normandy ?"


Today it was revealed that Tom Delay , [R]TX, House Majority Whip, was engaged in a conversation with a French diplomat at a social engagement last evening.

He suffered the "Cowboy" bit for a while and when finally frustrated with typical Gallic gall, asked the gentleman if he spoke German. When the diplomat replied in the negative, Delay responded "You're welcome" and walked away......

God love the USA and our sense of timing!

:bounce:
 
/
and some of the things that have been said.

I sit here full of sadness that our troops are overseas fighting this war, and I pray everyday that our leaders are correct bc if it we are proved wrong, then we have risked their lives for naught.

We all need to be aware how much of the rest of the world, not just the French, disagree with our position. Most agree that Hussein must go, but few agree with our tactics. Like it or not, a lot of the world feels that we are pursuing a crusade against the Muslims -- GWB used this very word when addressing the nation after 9/11. That word has particular significance in the Muslim world, and he knew it. They feel that we want the oil, and it does not help that a subsidiary of Halliburton, Dick Cheney's former firm, has already been awarded a contract for post-war reparations of the oil fields.

I do not understand boycotting products over this. Sincerely, do you like China's policies toward human rights? Do you boycott Chinese made products? (We'd all have to empty our houses...) How about Saudi Arabia & many other Arab countries? They forment terrorism. Prior to the war, there was still oil flowing from Iraq under "Oil for Food"? Did you boycott gas & oil?

As for France, I think Chirac has gone off the deep end pursuing his agenda, but to be hostile toward the employees of the French pavilion is extreme and taking your disagreement to an overly personal level. I would ask you to think about any disagreement you have with the US Govt - tax policy, social security, medicare, education: you name it, we all have beefs - now would you be hostile toward your neighbor who works for a govt agency? Please be honest with yourself...would you? I really doubt it.

Anyway, for those of you looking to rid yourself of French products, let me know and I'll take them off your hands!! ;)
 
Having some experience on the Euro Disney project, I'd have to say that we Americans are rather late comers to this whole "boycott Disney" game. From French beet farmers blocking roads, French environmental groups running an ongoing campaign to bomb the electrical towers supplying power to the property, to gangs of French youths beating up on costumed characters, and to the constant anti-American critics hurdled at Disneyland Paris, any effort at Epcot is simple small time in comparison. All of this has been going on since before the project opened.

As for the French pavilion at Epcot, I know the restaurants are operated by a French company, but I do not know the status of the shops. Like most of World Showcase, everything is operated by a mix of outside companies. Some of the companies are from the "sponsoring" nation, some are local American distributors. Not all of the employees are even technically Disney staff: they work for whoever runs the establishment but follow Disney cast standards. It might be fruitful to research some of the business licenses.


As for what the French think about our foreign policy, I could not care less. Any nation that put up less resistance than Poland against the Nazis and then eagerly spent following years shipping their neighbors away in cattle cars to the camps does not deserve to be heard. Their post-war imperial adventures in Southeast Asia, Algeria and Africa (up to the present day) are little more than attempts to relive the vague memories of 18th century glory. Far from having the moral high ground, their concerns are rooted in the depths of cheap self interest.

The world has changed. We no longer live in a world of massive armies poised on national borders; we no longer have a world where distance has any meaning for economics or politics. The integration of global economics have made us all part of a vast interdependent system where my computer is made in China, my food is imported from South America, my cell phone in Finland and the CNN broadcast from Atlanta is being seen live across the world.

But time does have a meaning. There are some elements in the world that are centuries behind the others – and that makes a dangerous combination. To be blunt, people who believe that mass murder will be rewarded by an eternity in Paradise where they will be surrounded by 72 virgins can not be allowed to play with nuclear weapons. Medieval warlords who gas their own people because they don't "love" him enough can not be allowed to posses engineered chemical bombs. The West has spent two centuries learning brutally painful lessons about all of this; there are others who haven't. They do not understand the power they are using and so they become a danger to all.

This is also no longer the age where conflict is confined to diplomatic meetings or a distant front line. You, I, that guy over there – we are the front line now. It is a sad reality, but it is reality nonetheless. And so I will do what I need to do. If that means refusing to support those that are hostile to us, than I will give up my Evian and alter my travel plans. I do take it at a personal level because the guy with the dynamite strapped to his waist is aiming at me. It is I that worries about my airliner being turned into a missile. It is I that has to wonder what ship is going to dock in LA Harbor or who is coming up from the border. Sure, a boycott may seem small, but it is doing something.

The last time the French tried to preserve peace a politician stepped off an airplane and promised that a sheet of paper guaranteed "peace in our time". Five years and forty million deaths later we learned it wasn't true. I see no reason to risk turning Boston into a smoldering hole simply to learn that lesson all over again.
 
AV, I agree with a lot of what you said, but I still think that we should try and be noble enough to separate the people from the policies of those in power.

mcnuss, Take a deep breath, Turn off the news (or at least switch to FOX from CNN). Our President is doing what he feels is morally right. If you notice, the war is progressing at the rate it is regardless of what the press says. There is enough enmity between the US, France and the rest of the UN that WE will not let the greedy people take the resources from the Iraqi people. You see a lot of left wing propaganda saying that this war is for oil. IT IS NOT. It is explicitly to remove an evil dictator who is supplying WMDs to those who could use them against us. Secondarily, it is the first step in letting the people in that part of the world know that we are serious about the war of terrorism. I personally believe Saddam was about to get Nuclear Weapons, and this CANNOT BE TOLERATED. For all we know, Chirok (France) was a potential broker. If you notice the countries opposing the Coalition entry into Iraq are mostly closely tied to the terrorist nations/groups? If not by direct arms sales, by special oil contracts.

What I am saying is that I don’t think a boycott will work, If you want to try, it may make you personally feel better. My view is that OUR PRESIDENT is taking care of the situation in a manner that harms the least amount of OUR soldiers and Innocent Iraqis.

If you watch CNN, you will see things in a very “Let’s see what kind of headlines we can spout to the world (ALA Peter Arnet interview)”. At least on Fox they show the more relevant facts about how we are winning this in the shortest time possible.

JMHO

:bounce:
 
Since many of these companies are shareholder owned, how does one decide how French they actually are?

As for Vivendi Universal, from its website:

The Board met 8 times in 2001 and 11 times in 2002. It currently comprises 12 members, including 9 independent directors (non-executive directors who do not represent any major shareholders or financial or trading partners). Six members are French and six members are not French, including 4 members from North America.

As for shareholders:

Share Ownership as of January 31, 2003

Main bearer shareholders or shareholders having informed the company that they crossed relevant thresholds :

Groups % of Capital % of Voting Rights
Bronfman Family 4.23 4.23
Philips 3.57 3.58
Liberty Media Group 3.49 3.49
Group Savings Plan - Vivendi Universal
1.65 1.65
CDC- Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations
1.78 1.78
Citigroup Inc. 1.69 1.69
Société Générale Group
1.45 1.45
Compagnie de St Gobain
1.15 1.15
UBS Warburg 0.91 0.91
BNP Paribas Group 0.79 0.79
Group Savings Plan - Vivendi Environnement
0.69 0.69
Seydoux Group 0.27 0.27
AXA Group 0.04 0.04
Vivendi Universal Treasury shares
0.04 0.00
Other Shareholders 78.25 78.28
Total 100.00 100.00


To make it even murkier, many Universal artists and movies are American and quite familiar. They seem to have two corporate offices, one in Paris and one in New York while their bank is the Bank of New York.

I'm not really sure if this company is French enough and they're not the only one.
 
Planogirl, I see your point; in a global economy we cannot differentiate between who owns what because of the stated nationality of the company. This brings me back to my point, I judge the person not the country they are from.

:bounce:
 
At least on Fox they show the more relevant facts about how we are winning this in the shortest time possible.


ROTFL. Ohanafamily: You really believe this, don't you?

I don't watch any TV news, except my local news for the weather! I read the New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Boston Globe every single day. I listen to NPR. I try to maintain a balance, which I think you realize is hard to do, by reading US News & World Report every week. I also try to read foreign news sources as much as possible, and listen to BBC as often as I can. If you rely on the TV news, your brain (not yours personally, "your" in the general sense) will turn to mush. There are much better sources of information. You talk about "left wing" propaganda. That cracks me up. Like there's no "right wing" propaganda. All conservatives are totally objective and never let their biases affect their analysis? LOL. Nobody but nobody is truly objective! Propaganda is propaganda no matter which side of the fence it comes from. And let's face it, propaganda is in the eye of the beholder. We must form our own opinions on all matters and not be swayed by the commentators. We must be our own analysts.

Lastly, if you read my post carefully, you will see that I did not tell you my opinions on this war. I told you I was saddened by it, but I never said whether I support the actions of the president or not. I did tell you my thoughts on President Chirac, and I tried to elucidate why other countries are against us, and what they might think, and why I think we need to rethink being hostile to French citizens at the supposedly happiest place on earth.
 
mcnuss, I happen to agree with you about not taking it out on the CMs. When I read your post it sounded like you might have been in a little of what my DW calls Overload. Too much war. I realize that Fox is right wing, but they make an attempt to show both sides. They have liberal commentators balanced with the conservatives. Also, if you watch CNN, the war has gone very badly, not to mention all of the casualties. We Are At War, there will be casualties. We have a volunteer military, not a conscripted one. As far as Friendly fire casualties, again, We Are At War. Additionally, there are casualties just from training exercises.

Additionally, with the speed and ease the Coalition has moved in to Iraq, it isn’t hard to see that the war is going quite well.

JMHO, My apologies for the misdiagnosis…

:bounce:
 
This was much closer to a debate than a Rumor or News, and it has veered wildly off track for this board. As such, I'm moving it to the Community Board (where I think it will fit in better).

Sarangel
 
To be honest with all of you I haven't read all the posts here, but get the general jist of it.

I Love my country and feel everyone should have the same feelings about their own. If they don't then they should leave.

So here's my $.02,

I believe myself to be as American as anyone, born here, will die here.

1) But let's remember 2 things first & foremost to honor our troops when they return from their mission.

2) Hositility, Resentment, and other bad emotions do not belong in Disney World.

Thats just how I feel. JMHO,

God Bless us all!,
Lisa
 
I'll just repeat what I said on the Iraqi Freedom board....

Hate isn't going to get us anywhere. I'm not going to hate anyone because of where they live or where they worship or what they look like and I'm teaching my children the same. It seems to me that if there wasn't so much hate in the world we wouldn't be at war now.

So when I go to WDW in October I'll be visiting the Canada pavilion and the France pavilion and all of the other pavilions. And I'm going to give each of the people in each pavilion the benefit of the doubt and trust that they are good, decent people unless they show me otherwise. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I know one thing; it feels better than hating.
 
and I will tell you......respect was everywhere......there was security in each park .....not just the ws places....even in our resort....at MK security was very tight and alot of orange country police officers with guns ......I have talked with people from all over the world this past week and they respect us and we in turn respect them......that is what should happen.......the people in Disney are just like us.....even to the workers at the parks....
 














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