back with a couple of interesting observations...

[Queenie122]

The whole wheelchair thing can be very frustrating and I know it's been talked about to death. I've been in an ECV a few times because I've had 6 surgeries on my knee and back. Sometimes, on a good day, it doesn't look at all like I need one. But if on a bad day I don't use one, by the end of the day I can't walk. Sometimes it happens fast and I'm afraid I will get stuck in the park!

More frustrating is my daughter. She's 7 and has special needs and has a custom wheelchair. It's definitely a wheelchair but it's colored for a kid so at first glance it looks like a stroller.

I remember the first time I took her to the park. We started off, our very first ride at It's a Small World. I was carrying her diaper bag and her special equipment on my shoulder, which is probably 10 pounds worth of stuff. After about only 5 minutes of being goofy and acting like a little kid running around, she says she can't stand. So I pick her up too. She was three at time time, almost 4, and probably weighed 30ish pounds.

The line for IaSW was maybe 20 minutes. The longest, most back breaking 20 minutes of my life. When we got on the ride and I put her and all the stuff down I swear I cried and spent the whole ride wondering how I would make it though the day.

When we got off and got back to her stroller (at the time she still fit in one) I begged the CM at Peter Pan to let me take her stroller through the line. That's when she explained *cue angels singing* they offered the GAC. I went and got one and had the best day taking my baby through Disney.

It's true, sometimes the handicap lines are shorter. But frequently you have to wait for a special boat to go all the way around. Sometimes it takes extra long to load up you and other disabled people. Sometimes you get the best seats in the house and sometimes you get the worst seats. Sometimes to have to walk triply long through a cue (talk about Star Tours up the elevator)! Sometimes, like Star Tours in DL or like in Disney World Haunted Mansion, you miss some of the fun queue or pre show. I don't think anyone really *wants* to have to use this stuff.

But I have seen kids pretending they needed crutches or people faking needing a chair and that is truly frustrating.

My daughter was granted a wish through MAW. On that trip, we truly didn't wait for anything. We got on a line for a character and the CMs pulled us to the front, where a dad grunted and loudly commented about us cutting the line and getting special treatment. Both my husband and I turned around, wearing our MAW shirts, and my husband pointed to his shirt and said, "Buddy, I'd give anything in the world to have never been in this position and be waiting on like just like you, believe me." The guy shut up and could tell he felt really bad.

Anytime I get looks for cutting the line, I remember that moment. I wish we all had more understanding but at the same time, I really hope "those" people never have to know what it's like to need handicap access.

Oh my gosh, I just posted so much! lol Sorry about that! We just got back from Disneyland two weeks ago and I was thinking about this a lot on my trip.

 

[cyclenut]

Queenie ... your post was a wonderful reminder of what too many of us often forget. Disabilities affect everyone in very different ways. Not everyone actually *can* wait in a long line, even in a wheelchair and not everyone's disability is readily visible. Sure, there are those who abuse the system but by and large most of us are interested in being fair about things.

I've been very fortunate that so far in my life I haven't had to use a GAC and I haven't had anyone in my party need one either. I'm glad that Disney has this program for guests. While I do wish there was some way to require "verification" that a GAC is really needed, it is a very fine line to walk. Disney tends to rely more on the honesty and integrity of its guests and while they are sometimes disappointed, more of often than not, it works out for the better.

To the PP who was upset about the WoC person who stood the whole show, be reminded that there are many conditions where a person can stand for 15-20 minutes but can't walk for more than 15-20 yards. I've found that the best practice is to not pass judgement at all. I figure if it IS someone trying to game the system by faking such a need, they are suffering a much greater mallady ... a lack of ethics.

 

[larina]

Queenie, thank you for sharing that personal post with us. Reminds us all that we don't know what is happening for someone else. And lots of disabilities don't 'show' in the ways that other people want them to (my mom is legally blind, but she can see, and people don't 'get' it sometimes).

Lots of people we upset by the 'extra' attention we received at a character breakfast in May. They didn't know we were in the midst of a horrible family tragedy or that my daughter had been sick for two of the three and a half days we were there. You just never know what's happening so best not to judge.

 

[starshine514]

We just got back from our DL trip and we saw too many people using scooters and wheel chairs that didnt need them and then having a bunch of people come with them to skip the lines.. I think DL needs to require some type of DR note or something saying that the item is needed.

I actually don't think that this is a bad idea. Most people that actually need them wouldn't mind providing this documentation.

Disney could solve the line problem with people renting scooters that don't need them and line cutting. They should allow the scooter/wheelchair up the exit and the rest of the party should have to go wait in line. Once the rest of the party is ready to be loaded they could get the wheelchair person and their companion and all of them would ride together. The other idea is to give the wheelchair/scooter people a pass at the line. It would have a time to return at that would be based on the length of the line at the time they got the pass (if it's a 60 minute wait and they approach the ride at 1:05, they would get a pass to return at 2:05 and ride). Effectively this would be their "waiting in line" time. Either of these solutions would solve 12 people getting to cut in line early because someone is in a wheelchair.

I think it is fantastic that most of the Disney rides can accomodate special needs guests, but they should wait their turn like everybody else.

Uhm, we DO wait our turn like everybody else. Heck, we wait LONGER than most people most of the time. It may just be the rides that DH is willing (and has been able) to ride, but in my experience the only ride I EVER remember us getting on quicker due to his disability was Alice in Wonderland. Splash? longer, Toy Story? longer, GRR? longer, Small World? longer. Granted, he doesn't ride very many rides (can't spend very many hours in the park due to his medical condition - so the girls and I are without him in the parks the majority of the time), so maybe that's why we haven't noticed this wonderful 'skipping the line' thing everyone accuses us of.

And, yes, what a wonderful family vacation with me and my girls going through the line while DH sits alone at the exit waiting for us (during the time that he is feeling well enough to join us at the park).

It's amazing to me how many people think that other than the ECV, the person is perfectly healthy and able to do everything else that everybody else is able to do. Most of the people who use them have underlying health conditions and can't do much park time anyway. Even if they get a shorter line on a couple of rides, if they only spend a total of 4-5 hours in the park that day compared to your 10+, do you really think they cheated the system and got to do more than you did?

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My dad will be using an ECV on our trip next month, just as he did on our trip in 2007. The only ride he really likes is the train. He will park the ECV, stand up and walk through the line with us. He also parks it to walk into restaurants or gift shops. Otherwise, he follows us around the parks, hangs out with whomever doesn't want to ride something, and buys the kids way too much ice cream!

People may think he doesn't need the ECV since it appears that he can get up and walk around relatively easily. However, he's 86 years old, diabetic, had bypass surgery, is still recovering from a case of shingles, always has sore legs and tires very easily. There is no way he would be able to walk around the parks for an hour, let alone all day. I would hate for anyone to jump to the conclusion that he's abusing the system because he's a fit and fairly healthy-looking guy. Looks can be deceiving!

 

[scrappinbear78]

So I have been reading this post since it started and although I feel the same way about those who "fake" their disability to try and get advantages, like everyone else has said you never know what is going on in their lives that is causing them to use the ECV. I am going to get a little personal here, but I am one of those examples. I have a condition called Gastroparesis. Basically my digestive system doesn't work at all. I am unable to eat most things by mouth and have a hard time getting fluids in. I am tube fed for the majority of my nutrition, but I have a hard time tolerating that as well. I have spent over 6 months in the hospital this year due to malnutrition, dehydration and central line infections. Because I am unable to get enough fluids and nutrition into me I tire very easy. I will push myself to go and go, but if I want to enjoy myself I have to get an ECV. When you look at me I look like I am a perfectly healthy person and that there is nothing wrong with me, but that isn't the case. I am on several meds that also make me tired and because of the excruciating pain that I deal with in my abdomen I am on pretty heavy pain meds. Granted the pain meds don't cause me to be tired or groggy anymore because I have been on them so long, so you wouldn't be able to tell that I am struggling. I have lost over 60 lbs in 4 months which is hard in itself on the body (this is not because I want to loose the weight, but because I can't get nutrition into me) The condition I have limits me on what I can do. I would LOVE to just walk all day with my kids, to goof around and not have to worry about maneuvering the ECV in crowds and worrying about loosing the rest of my party or my kids, and to not worry about all the inconveniences of the ECV. Yes there are a lot of dishonest people out there, but please please don't pass judgment on whether or not they need it. Like someone else said, if they are lying just to get so called privileges then then will face the consequences later on in life. Karma is a bi%#$.

 

[Mama Who]

My grandmother would say " dont use that unless you need to , you will tempt the evil eye , and you will end up in one for the rest of your life" I have had to use a ECV to grocery shop post surgery and hated it.

I know, I cannot imagine why anyone would hobble themselves with an ECV unless the alternative was positively ghastly. I had to do it once for shopping and it was miserable. It's a great tool for those who need it but just for fun? Yikes! No thanks!

 

[Virgoinab]

We just got back from our DL trip and we saw too many people using scooters and wheel chairs that didnt need them and then having a bunch of people come with them to skip the lines.. I think DL needs to require some type of DR note or something saying that the item is needed.

See now it is this kind of response that scares the heck out of me.

I have a short term disability, well if you call re-learning how to walk again for the last two years short term, point is, I am lucky that I will at some point get better.

Except I do not look like I have a disability, because I wear pants that hide the foot long scar on my leg.

OH, and then to top it off, since I had lost my ability to walk at all, I gained some weight, which, some may look at me if I am using and ecv or wheelchair that I am just a fattie who is too lazy to walk, which I have heard muttered.

Guess what, I COULD NOT WALK without a wheelchair for 9 months, then after that for another 6 months without leg braces and a walker or crutches, and now, for short periods of time without anything, sometimes a cane.

But this kind of thinking is why when we arrive in DL on Dec 19, I will most likely not rent a wheel chair and only go into the park for about 2 hrs a day, because I or my soon to be husband, will not be able to stay civil towards someone who will accuse me of trying to scam some kind of system that is there to HELP THE DISABLED. I will instead try and enjoy what little time I can without being judged, thank you very much.

Also, I will be getting married at the DLH and I have worked darn hard to walk down that aisle, but hey, please feel free to judge other's with hidden disabilitys as trying to line jump.

 

[scrappinbear78]

But this kind of thinking is why when we arrive in DL on Dec 19, I will most likely not rent a wheel chair and only go into the park for about 2 hrs a day, because I or my soon to be husband, will not be able to stay civil towards someone who will accuse me of trying to scam some kind of system that is there to HELP THE DISABLED. I will instead try and enjoy what little time I can without being judged, thank you very much.

Also, I will be getting married at the DLH and I have worked darn hard to walk down that aisle, but hey, please feel free to judge other's with hidden disabilitys as trying to line jump.

First off, CONGRATS on your recovery to be able to walk down the aisle to start your new life together. What an accomplishment and a joy.

It makes me so sick to know that the happiest time of your life is being dampened by stupid people who want to judge. I understand the reluctance to get an ECV because you won't be able to hold your temper and with it being a busy time of the year I am sure comments are more ramped, but I would encourage you to think about it. We are going to be there the 20-27 and I would even be happy to "stroll" around with you on the ECV. Just because we are disabled doesn't mean that we can't have fun. We need to be able to have fun just as much as an able bodied person is having fun. If we "goof off" while on the ECV it doesn't mean that we are using the disability to get things, it just means that we have come to terms with this being our NORM. My dad and hubby are also in an ECV and my dad plays around with the kids all the time when he is in his ECV. He will speed up then stop in front of them, weave from one side to another making them try and "catch" him, go around in circles trying to make them dizzy, etc. I know people judge because of this, but that is their issue. What good is it to go if you can't have fun no matter what your physical needs are. Just know that you do have support of so many people even though you don't know us. I pray that you will have an amazing time and be able to enjoy the parks and not regret your decision whatever it ends up being. Life is WAY too short to not have fun and make lasting memories.

 

[quantumottle]

I wanted to chime in and let everyone know, that is, if you don't already know - over on the WDW section of The Dis, there is no topic that can turn a thread very ugly quicker than stories of "scooter abuse". It seems to be the MOST touchy of subjects on that forum.

I have posted on that forum before, and boasted how this type of ugly discussion would never happen on the Disneyland side of The Dis.

Please be very careful, and try to stay civil during this very galvanizing topic. I like to think one of the main differences between CA and FL is the way we treat each other on the W coast.

Good luck...

 

[Virgoinab]

First off, CONGRATS on your recovery to be able to walk down the aisle to start your new life together. What an accomplishment and a joy.

It makes me so sick to know that the happiest time of your life is being dampened by stupid people who want to judge. I understand the reluctance to get an ECV because you won't be able to hold your temper and with it being a busy time of the year I am sure comments are more ramped, but I would encourage you to think about it. We are going to be there the 20-27 and I would even be happy to "stroll" around with you on the ECV. Just because we are disabled doesn't mean that we can't have fun. We need to be able to have fun just as much as an able bodied person is having fun. If we "goof off" while on the ECV it doesn't mean that we are using the disability to get things, it just means that we have come to terms with this being our NORM. My dad and hubby are also in an ECV and my dad plays around with the kids all the time when he is in his ECV. He will speed up then stop in front of them, weave from one side to another making them try and "catch" him, go around in circles trying to make them dizzy, etc. I know people judge because of this, but that is their issue. What good is it to go if you can't have fun no matter what your physical needs are. Just know that you do have support of so many people even though you don't know us. I pray that you will have an amazing time and be able to enjoy the parks and not regret your decision whatever it ends up being. Life is WAY too short to not have fun and make lasting memories.

Thank you scrappinbear, for your kindness.

It is just so frustrating at times trying to get people to understand that not every disability display's itself with a neon sign that can been seen.

Agreed that hey, because we are in wheelchairs we can''t be a little goofy at times without someone making a judgement that we "don't really need" the conveyance.

Oh we will still have fun, and if you happen to be around the DLH small gazeboo at noon on dec 22, that will be me in the white dress, and the big smile.

And if it gets to the point that we are sacrificing disney magic because I am being stubborn, well, disney magic will win. I will rent the ecv and to heck with what anyone thinks, I will just show them my big ole scar and ask them if they would rather trade places.

Have a great day

 

[cmwade77]

When we were at the check point in DTD on the way to DL we asked the person what they look for when they are checking bags and the response we got was "Glass bottles, alcohol, weapons, and dead people." DH laughed thinking the guy was joking and the guy said "no, seriously... too many people try to bring their loved ones ashes into DL to spread them at the happiest place on Earth." We laughed again and walked away.
Then we had to share that with everyone we know... because the way he said it was hilarious.

This does happen, a lot and security does not catch everyone. It's happend on Haunted Mansion, Pirates, The Hub and several other places around the parks.

On a more serious note... DH had to use a scooter (rented from hoverround) on the trip due to his disability. On the last night DH went to drop it off at the front desk of the hotel. There was a married couple there dropping theirs off as well, as they pulled into the lobby the guy made the comment "renting this was the best think ever, sure beats the hell out of walking all day and the wheel chair lines a much shorter" DH said "well I earned mine" as he grabbed his cane, got up and left. I was so mad when I heard this story... people who do this should be ashamed of themselves!!

First off, the waits are not always shorter, in many cases it is longer, especially if the queue is accesible and the person needs a WAV.

In addition, it takes those in wheelchairs approximately 50% more time to travel around the park and those in ECVs take approximately 25% more time.

I have done comparisons when I am with people in wheelchairs and ECVs to those that are not and all in all, those in wheelchairs/ECVs usually do about 1/2 the number of attractions as those that aren't.

I mention this to set the record straight and hopefully deter those that do not need to use them from doing so. Bottom line is the more people that try to cheat the system, the longer the wait is for those that truly need the assistance.

Now, I will admit that it saves walking, but you have to maneuver around people all day, as well as have your face at but level. It does save you from having to stand while waiting, but it does not decrease all wait times, overall you wait more than those not in ECVs or wheelchairs.

 

[scrappinbear78]

Thank you scrappinbear, for your kindness.

It is just so frustrating at times trying to get people to understand that not every disability display's itself with a neon sign that can been seen.

Agreed that hey, because we are in wheelchairs we can''t be a little goofy at times without someone making a judgement that we "don't really need" the conveyance.

Oh we will still have fun, and if you happen to be around the DLH small gazeboo at noon on dec 22, that will be me in the white dress, and the big smile.

And if it gets to the point that we are sacrificing disney magic because I am being stubborn, well, disney magic will win. I will rent the ecv and to heck with what anyone thinks, I will just show them my big ole scar and ask them if they would rather trade places.

Have a great day

Yes it is. My illness can have me feeling perfectly fine and normal but 5 minutes later I am in so much pain that I can't walk. Usually when it hits me this way I get really light headed, my BP sky rockets, I am having to find a bathroom quick because I will be praying to a porcelain God, and some times the pain is so severe it pass out. So, I am really reluctant to not use an assistance device because I do look fine but I have no clue when it is going to hit me and I really don't want to be walking somewhere when it does happen.

I will make a point to swing by around noon on the 22nd. I will make a note of it so that I can congratulate you. My hubby and I have been married for 12 years. We have been through so much in those 12 years, but overcoming obstacles makes us appreciate the support we have for each other. It is amazing to have someone there to help you and support you.

I am glad that you won't let the renting or not renting of an ECV hinder your fun! I am sure I won't start with one either, but as our trip goes on will have to break down and get one. I don't know depends on how I feel after an 18 or so hours in the car.

I also agree that it is a VERY touchy subject and should be addressed with extreme caution. Quickest way to start a huge argument and bashing. The important thing with DL is to have fun and enjoy the atmosphere not make other peoples experience miserable.

 

[RuthieT]

I know not trying to be ugly or judgemental.. I just dont like the people that have to cheat the usage of the wheelchairs and scooters and then bring there whole party with them.. I do agree with having them wait at the exit while the rest of the party waits in line. That would help with making it more fair for everyone.