Back to School during the pandemic ...a discussion thread

[Madame]

My understanding is that the majority of new cases are in teens and 20's, below 10 there is only a handful and not new as of today but over the weekend. But perhaps I am not looking at the right numbers? If there is a better place to check I'm happy to see it. I am looking at the Ottawa Public Health but it's more summary totals than day by day totals.

I found this, but not sure if it’s the info you need (link is where I found the chart:
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-re...-more-than-a-month-cases-rise-by-25-1.5042058

 

[bababear_50]

So I do get that teachers should have protective equipment, but it's a bit different to be in a chohort of 15 or so kids who are being monitored for temperature and illneess versus serving everyone in the public who may or may not even be wearing a mask and certainly doesn't need the temperature checked before they walk into that grocery store. And those people working in the stores are serving far more than 15 people who they can trace. I don't see how that compares. Especially adding in that kids (under 10) are shown to be less suseptible to the virus than all those adults.

I'd strongly suggest that the schools should be looking to countries that have successfully opened their schools, there have been a few. I have found this discussion eye opening in that it seems schools across the country are in really poor shape. I guess I have been lucky with my son's school, it's been well cleaned (I've seen the staff working when dropping off and picking up from daycare in the school), it's newer so no lead or asbestos, and, again, the school board plans do seem quite detailed and well thought out. I am gathering from all of you that those plans are something of a lie though, that they are telling parents what we want to hear to feel safe but in reality they won't be doing those things. I do feel that the first outbreak from a school will have the whole thing shut down, and they had better have a good plan in place for the online learning because the nonsense from the spring was useless and not worth the effort. I expect actual teaching to take place, not watch a video and answer some questions. To be honest here, if I had to send my son to the schools you all work in, he wouldn't be going.

Hi Hon
So see here's the thing,,,
I don't think the responsibility is going to be on the school to do a wellness check (temp,illness) at all.
I think the responsibility will be on the parent. I mean we could never have enough time to do a wellness check for every kid or we'd have no classroom time,,plus who's going to do them?
I know a designated person will have a list and just call the parent or guardian to pick up the child immediately. I know a isolated area is going to be needed but staffed by who is unknown.
We don't know what the procedure for notifying the rest of the class will be? Crum even for something as common as head lice there are strict privacy protocols. We don't even know if the child will be required to see a doc or get a test before they return.
Pretty much the parent could at this point say oh he's just got a cold and they bring him back the next day.
Remember your son's group of 15 kids also includes their extended bubble group
15 kids + 1-5 staff x 10

Hugs
Mel

 

[Aladora]

For anyone in BC who may have missed it, there is going to be an announcement tomorrow at 12:30 where the government will outline their plans for the 2020-2021 school year.

https://www.cheknews.ca/b-c-school-...cfV3_mgX832TS2KUGIGyiqBJeO-NfxBT-apYqY5iq5mzM

 

[pigletto]

Hi Hon
So see here's the thing,,,
I don't think the responsibility is going to be on the school to do a wellness check (temp,illness) at all.
I think the responsibility will be on the parent. I mean we could never have enough time to do a wellness check for every kid or we'd have no classroom time,,plus who's going to do them?
I know a designated person will have a list and just call the parent or guardian to pick up the child immediately. I know a isolated area is going to be needed but staffed by who is unknown.
We don't know what the procedure for notifying the rest of the class will be? Crum even for something as common as head lice there are strict privacy protocols. We don't even know if the child will be required to see a doc or get a test before they return.
Pretty much the parent could at this point say oh he's just got a cold and they bring him back the next day.
Remember your son's group of 15 kids also includes their extended bubble group
15 kids + 1-5 staff x 10

Hugs
Mel

We won’t have mandated masks or wellness checks. This is what it says on our school board FAQ about any sort of wellness checks ;

Will there be COVID testing for staff and students? Will there be daily health screening?
It will be the parent’s and student’s responsibility to do a daily assessment before sending them to school. If your child exhibits symptoms such as coughing, fever, and headache, they are not permitted to attend school. If anyone in your household has a confirmed case of COVID-19, your child must remain home and you must contact your health provider for more information.

 

[hdrolfe]

Hi Hon
So see here's the thing,,,
I don't think the responsibility is going to be on the school to do a wellness check (temp,illness) at all.
I think the responsibility will be on the parent. I mean we could never have enough time to do a wellness check for every kid or we'd have no classroom time,,plus who's going to do them?
I know a designated person will have a list and just call the parent or guardian to pick up the child immediately. I know a isolated area is going to be needed but staffed by who is unknown.
We don't know what the procedure for notifying the rest of the class will be? Crum even for something as common as head lice there are strict privacy protocols. We don't even know if the child will be required to see a doc or get a test before they return.
Pretty much the parent could at this point say oh he's just got a cold and they bring him back the next day.
Remember your son's group of 15 kids also includes their extended bubble group
15 kids + 1-5 staff x 10

Hugs
Mel

I think public health will still be involved with the contact tracing, but in a group like that it certainly is easier than if it's just the whole school. And I do understand the bubble thing, which is part of why I will be contacting the school to let them know the kids my son has already been playing with (socially distanced and outside but still).

 

[Madame]

I forgot I was going to post this for anyone interested. I follow this teacher on Twitter - he is the guru of Covid stats & has even put forth a very detailed re-opening of schools assessment.

Possible class sizes on the top, region on the left, Twitter handle at the very top. The chart updates daily on his feed. Yeah, we’re the big ole 25.2% in a class of 33 towards the bottom. Too bad it doesn’t mean we’re winning

 

[Madame]

I forgot I was going to post this for anyone interested. I follow this teacher on Twitter - he is the guru of Covid stats & has even put forth a very detailed re-opening of schools assessment.

Possible class sizes on the top, region on the left, Twitter handle at the very top. The chart updates daily on his feed. Yeah, we’re the big ole 25.2% in a class of 33 towards the bottom. Too bad it doesn’t mean we’re winning

View attachment 514274

And I just found today’s

 

[badiggio]

I'm happy my grandkids are homeschooled .The way i see it,putting kids in a so called bubble ,while in school,without masks or social distancing in an enclosed classroom,doesn't do anything as far as the preventing of spreading the virus,but increases it.What about when the kids go home to their families,other friends,etc.Now they've been exposed to everyone in your family and friends have been exposed to.I would wait as long as it takes before potentially risking my kids lives to rush back to school.JMO

 

[bcwife76]

I'm in BC too, DD11 is going into grade 6, which in our district is the start of middle school. I really want her to be able to go back, she didn't go back in June, it just wasn't worth more change as she had gotten used to the online learning. She had a great report card at the end of June. the missed all the celebratory events the school usually does for the Grade 5 kids moving on. I honestly hope they do send the kids back, I have no issue with them requiring masks, or any other preventative measures to help slow the spread or exposure to the virus.

So my oldest going into grade 7, this will be her last year of elementary school (we don't have middle schools in Surrey). I didn't send either of mine back in June not because of the virus but because the amount of days they would have been back would have been so minimal. We are definitely leaning towards sending both of ours back in September, with masks, sanitizer etc. Will be interesting to see what Fleming has to say tomorrow but I'm 99% sure he's going to say full time in class instruction for elementary and middle school.

 

[FigmentSpark]

And I just found today’s
View attachment 514276

Ouch. My son is supposed to be going to U. Windsor in Sept. While the classes are all online for the fall, nothing's been said about winter, so we've booked him a room on the campus just so he will have something in winter. He was planning on mostly staying home, but we are picking up his keys and putting sheets on the bed, in case he does need to be on campus for anything. But when I see that number, I mean, wow! I thought most of the Windsor-Essex were on a few farms. Those stats suggest the virus is pervasive throughout the area. Now I'm thinking we should highly encourage our DS to just stay home and do his classes online only.

 

[mshanson3121]

No what I meant is because he’s designated as special needs they don’t care if he learns they simply try to avoid meltdowns .
I pushed him and saw results I wish I could home school permanently but I need to work too

Don't give up on the idea of homeschooling permanently just because you work. It's hard, but I know many people that successfully do it. You might look into joining a couple homeschool groups on Facebook, there are some just for working Moms that you might glean some support from, even if it is just this year.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/WorkingHomeschoolMomClub/
Special needs homeschooling groups can also be helpful. I have to say, choosing to homeschool our daughter with ASD, was by far the best option. Not easy, but definitely the best for her.

 

[Madame]

Ouch. My son is supposed to be going to U. Windsor in Sept. While the classes are all online for the fall, nothing's been said about winter, so we've booked him a room on the campus just so he will have something in winter. He was planning on mostly staying home, but we are picking up his keys and putting sheets on the bed, in case he does need to be on campus for anything. But when I see that number, I mean, wow! I thought most of the Windsor-Essex were on a few farms. Those stats suggest the virus is pervasive throughout the area. Now I'm thinking we should highly encourage our DS to just stay home and do his classes online only.

The workers visit the Walmarts, grocery stores, etc. Granted I am more anxious by nature than most, but I would not be sending him if he’s comfortable online. Think of it this way, I work in Windsor but live in one of the greenhouse communities and DD goes to school in the other greenhouse community where my DM also lives. Once schools open, this is going to be EVERYWHERE.

Our family used to own greenhouses before my DF died. My DM made sure that the workers were comfortable, but there are places where they are stacked into « housing » like cordwood, and testing on farms remains voluntary, so

 

[quandrea]

Don't give up on the idea of homeschooling permanently just because you work. It's hard, but I know many people that successfully do it. You might look into joining a couple homeschool groups on Facebook, there are some just for working Moms that you might glean some support from, even if it is just this year.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/WorkingHomeschoolMomClub/
Special needs homeschooling groups can also be helpful. I have to say, choosing to homeschool our daughter with ASD, was by far the best option. Not easy, but definitely the best for her.

I’m a special education teacher by profession and I’ve always said that if I had a special needs child, my first decision would be to remove him or her from the public school system.

 

[mshanson3121]

So community schooling could solve a couple of issues; I am thinking like the one room schoolhouse. Small cohorts of students from a limited area would attend school at one neighbor's house (all grades together) allowing for social interaction with a small cohort of friends. That neighbor could be compensated by the government to oversee the children's education. Proper access to internet and devices would have to provided (also government subsidized); that is one of the biggest issues that many families faced - five kids and one laptop trying to share access and attend sessions at one time. The parent who takes on this role is intended to be a proctor/assistant, ensuring that students are putting in the effort; the teachers would still create the content. the proctor would ensure that students who need help with topics are actually reaching out to the professional teachers and would enable these interactions. This would also help with the unemployment problem for folks (like me) who are unable to find work during the COVID crisis.

The problem being that indoor spaces are the highest risk. So, you're not solving anything. You're still indoors in a relatively small space with multiple people that are going out and living their life after school, cross-exposing everyone. It's a smaller class-size, yes. But basically the same problems regarding risk remain.

He says "well why don't hey open the Hockey arena and hold the clases there ,,then the kids can take breaks skating" ?
There are washrooms and also a snack bar???? Hmmmmmm...Mmmmmm.

An idea I mentioned earlier, that I have seen discussed a lot on Facebook, and that is being put in place in various places in the US, Canada and across the world, are outdoor classrooms this year. This is what many places did during/after the 1918-1919 pandemic - they did school outside, even in winter (with very unique options for staying warm I must say, lol). Outdoor, fresh air spaces pose the least amount of risk, and offer more space to spread out. It poses it's challenges, and would require flexible thinking, but it really should be an option to be considered.

That is appalling .
My sons grade 8 classroom was on the third floor of a building built in 1924. There was little to no air movement up there . It wasn’t unusual for it to be 37 or 38 degrees in the classroom in September or June . So many of these old buildings just aren’t equipped for the measures needed .

Yup... many of our schools were built during times that had very different (horrible) building codes, different materials allowed, horrible ventilation etc... And some of the new schools aren't much better. The town I grew up in closed several of their elementary and middle schools, which were old and had many issues, and built two new K-8 schools. So, yes, everything is up to code as far as insulation, plumbing etc... Much better air exchange. However, there's still no AC/Heat. The thermostat is set at a consistent temperature all year long, and can only be adjusted by 2-3 degrees. And even better is the fact that there's no thermostat in the classroom for the teacher to use - the temperatures are controlled remotely by district office, over 100 km away. If you want to lower or raise the temperature in your classroom, you have to submit a Help Desk request to head office, and wait for them to comply. When you're on the 3rd floor of a school... it can get mighty hot. And bonus... the new schools don't have windows that can be opened, due to "safety". At least in the old schools, each teacher could control the temperature in their classroom, and they had windows that opened fully for fresh air.

CBC had an article this morning about back to school, based on research on COVID in children, from reading it seems that children under 10 are less likely to get infected, and thus not transmit it. I do wonder if the schools should focus on elementary aged kids being in classrooms (perhaps using the high schools) and more of the high school kids online.

Two thoughts:

1. This is how they're doing it where we are. K-8 are going back in class, high school is going to be blended, partly in school, partly on line. No social distancing required for the younger kids, full social distancing required for high school.

2. That said, just because under 10 are less likely, doesn't mean it won't happen. We had an outbreak occur in NB, three young children (preschool to K age) all caught/spread Covid. One needed hospitalization.

Would using Zoom for teaching be an option if an outbreak occurs again?

Not a great one, no. My husband had to use it for work and it definitely has limitations. It's also not good for areas with poor connection.

 

[ForeverDance]

We are in an interesting situation as our 8 year old daughter has a medical condition that makes her high risk. The one benefit of this is that we have access to a whole medical team. We had a long discussion with them a couple of weeks ago, and unless something changes drastically in the next month, our daughter will be going back to class if the schools are open. At this point, they have asked us to prioritize her mental health. They believe the mental health struggles she is experiencing from the sustained physical distancing is doing more harm than the potential risk. Again, this is based off the current situation and the area we live in. If things change then we may need to re-assess.

 

[mshanson3121]

I’m a special education teacher by profession and I’ve always said that if I had a special needs child, my first decision would be to remove him or her from the public school system.

Yup, sadly. Our district especially is short staffed, and there just is not the necessary support. My mother is a teacher and she was one of the first ones to tell us that our kids would end up being the "left behind" ones (our son has his own challenges). So then add in the amount of days my daughter would have missed due doctors appointments, hospitalizations, not feeling well... School just isn't the place for her.

 

[quandrea]

Yup, sadly. Our district especially is short staffed, and there just is not the necessary support. My mother is a teacher and she was one of the first ones to tell us that our kids would end up being the "left behind" ones (our son has his own challenges). So then add in the amount of days my daughter would have missed due doctors appointments, hospitalizations, not feeling well... School just isn't the place for her.

Exactly. When I worked for the public board, I had sixty kids on my caseload—grade seven and eight. All were years behind in math and reading and I could only go into math or English classes to provide support. No withdrawal. I could not make any effective change for anyone. Those kids just got further and further behind. Now when I worked in a private school for special education kids—3-5 in a class, I made real progress. Tutoring was also highly successful.

 

[Madame]

I feel like we’re getting punked. SickKids new recommendations would have us return with no mask mandate, no cohorting and a ONE metre distance 5 days / wk. How very convenient for the government. It talks of ventilation and sanitation, but we know those are lies. This is REGARDLESS of regional infection rate. I expect board plans to be completely overridden tomorrow for a one-size fits all « solution. »

The image is this teacher’s room - in the following Tweet she made it clear more desks would fit with the 1m guidelines, but this is her class number for now.

 

[Madame]

And this camp where all were masked & following distancing rules:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/boucherville-cases-day-camp-1.5666352

 

[wdwmom3]

I feel like we’re getting punked. SickKids new recommendations would have us return with no mask mandate, no cohorting and a ONE metre distance 5 days / wk. How very convenient for the government. It talks of ventilation and sanitation, but we know those are lies. This is REGARDLESS of regional infection rate. I expect board plans to be completely overridden tomorrow for a one-size fits all « solution. »

The image is this teacher’s room - in the following Tweet she made it clear more desks would fit with the 1m guidelines, but this is her class number for now.


View attachment 514422View attachment 514423

I don’t know what you are reading. But this says they do recommend masks in high school students and possibly middle school. They also recommend smaller class sizes and cohorting students so they only stay with one group.

It also still recommends 2 m distance but says there would not be significant change of transmitoon at 1m. I read somewhere else 2 m was still being recommended for high school. It’s also important to note that many other counties use 1.5 M as the distance to stay apart not 2.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sickkids-experts-recommendations-1.5667023