I LOVE uniforms, both as a teacher and a parent. There is no gray area about what is acceptable or not, and I do not have to make a judgement call about it. Either you are in uniform or not. I like it as a parent b/c of the problems you guys are sharing. i don't have to worry about what she wears to school, and the brand name, it's not in style, i want to wear what my friends are wearing debate is completely out of the equation. My DD goes to private school so it is one specific uniform form one supplier. I teach in public school, and we have no opt out policy that I am aware of. Our uniform is just kakis and a white button down though. There is not specific brand, and the only specification is that they can only be the 5 pocket style (no cargo's ect) and cannot be jean or cord. I don't see it as infringing on my freedom so much as siplifying my life.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the kids have to wear uniforms so should the teachers/administration. YOU as the teacher should be setting the example.
Do you want to wear a uniform? IF not, then get off your horse about your students wearing them.
It's not that looney. I teach middle school and I'll explain it: gangs and weapons. Not in my school you say? It only takes one to cause a big problem. Those problems are not limited by location or socio-economic status.
Yes, that does mean everybody pays the price, but there's a lot to be said for uniforms. It eliminates the what-to-wear dilemma, the fashion snobs, the haves and have-nots. It also has been statistically shown to reduce discipline incidents across the board. It's a safety issue on a number of levels plus how much of my teaching time do you want lost to deal with the boy who won't keep his sagging pants up or the girl with her cleavage hanging out? I'd rather spend my time teaching. Oh, and would you want to be the male teacher forced to deal with a female student dressed inappropriately? The guys I teach with find that one of those most distressing parts of their jobs. I run a lot of interference when I see some of the stuff the girls try to get away with. What about the boys? Middle school boys are notoriously distractable.
Bottom line is that "You go to school to learn, not for a fashion show"...
Also, if your school calls the uniform "academic attire" which is essentially a really strict dress code without requiring a specific outfit from a specific supplier, you won't get any exceptions to the rule short of a religious or medical one. Besides, no one wants to stick out, in middle school especially, so even if you got permission for your kid to wear something different, it would be a disaster peer-wise.
bolding is mine.... Exactly and my DD can get her education just fine in her jeans and t shirt that btw, doesn't show cleavage. I guess if you don't want to deal w/ these matters, maybe you should get a job teaching in a school that does require uniforms. Send the kids to the office and let admin deal w/ the dress issues. This doesn't have to take up your 'valuable' teaching time unless you 'allow' it to.
My husband is a public high school teacher, so I'm well aware of the issues re uniforms. In no way do I find them compelling. Middle school boys are going to be distracted if you put the girls in chadors. Gang members can and do find ways to display their symbols uniforms or not. Kids also find ways to display their socioeconomic status, whether or not there are uniforms.
I simply would not buy uniforms for my kids, nor would I send them to school in them, period. If I wanted the school overreaching, I'd send them to private school. The school district could then provide an alternative education for my kids, as is their legal obligation. If they want to spend the additional 50% on the cost of educating our kids, as the alternative education costs in our district, that would be their problem. But fortunately, the uniform nuts haven't come our way.
There are lots of areas where parents can push back when they encounter bureaucratic idiocy. It just requires a little backbone.
AMEN to all that was stated above!
Shirts tucked in, pockets shown? What about overweight kids?
No skorts above the knee?? How moronic is that?
That dress code is a disaster!!!!!!!!
Maybe we need to file a discrimination lawsuit on behalf of the overweight kids. I'm serious. I don't want to wear my shirt tucked in, nor do either of my girls. Wanna talk about setting someone up to be made fun of? Tucking in certain styles of blouses and pants only adds to the 'noticability of someone's weight or overweightness (I know a made up word
, but you know what I mean)'
We have a no midriff or cleavage showing, tops must cover the shoulders and no shorts, skirts (even w/leggings) or skorts that are shorter than the fingertips. I have seen 6th graders come to school in "bootie" shorts and it just is wrong, what are their parents thinking?
This year we have had to ban material book covers because certain boys last year decided to wear them as "do rags"???? Crazy!
YEs, some parents do allow this, but ocassionally you'll find a kid who changes (or sometimes borrows from a friend) their outfit after mom and dad have left for work and kid has yet to leave for school. And if they get home from school before parents get home from work, they change back. There was a girl I went to school w/ years ago that would change when she got to school and into outfits her parents didn't even know she owned. Bought w/ her own $$ and she did her own laundry. Eventually the mom saw her out somewhere and was mortified.
I love it when kids prefer to move to their own beat. My statement is a reflection of what I see and what I know from over 15 years in the classroom. It's basic to adolescent development. If some child gets a special exception to the dress code, the other kids will have a fit (obvious medical/religious issue aside). Kids are very quick to point out inequities even if they are just perceived.
My teaching job has plenty of requirements as to what I can wear, do, have with me, etc. However, teachers are not students. That is blurring the line of respect toward professionals. In the schools in my district with academic attire, the teachers do not wear uniforms, but they do dress very professionally. They definitely aren't coming in sloppier than the kids.
I have seen very strong parent support for uniforms in my district. So far, only two of our elementary schools have gone to uniforms, but I'm disappointed my kids' school isn't one of them. It would make it a lot easier to buy school clothes and they would still have plenty of time outside of school to express themselves in whatever they want.
There will always be those who don't like something. That's life. Dress codes and/or uniforms are in place for good reasons. If you don't like what's in place at your school, talk to the administration, ask questions, look at overall district policy. Don't assume it's just some random rule.
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No teachers are not students, but you are role models for them. So if you want students to wear uniforms, teachers should be required to wear them too. Do you want to pay for my kids to have 2 wardrobes? If not, I suggest you not tell me how to dress my kids or what to buy for them to wear unless it is downright offensive.
I certainly agree that the district isn't going to want to provide an alternative education. That's why most uniform policies do have an opt out. The schools will try to keep that as secret as possible. But at the end of the day, if a parent just says no to uniforms, what are they really going to do? Particularly if you have a high achieving, well behaved child, the last thing they are going to want to do is shell out for it.
If you or other parents want your children to dress like sheep, that's your perogative. But to try to force it on others in a public school is ludicrous.
We've opted out of several things that the district tries to present as inviolate.
Good for you for being proactive in choosing what is right for YOUR child!
Well I guess my public school uniform wearing kids just say "BAA!" to you. Honestly, the stuff I read online.
The only time my kids have dressed like sheep was for a Christmas play.
My oldest is going into 5th grade, public school, uniforms required. And she's a free spirit too, and dances to her own beat - but school is not the place for that. She's there to get an education. Oh yeah, and she has friends too, LOL. Same with my son going into 3rd grade - he has no problems with uniforms, has lots of friends, etc. Both kids are in gifted classes. Double baa.
Having the uniforms does cut down on many issues -
but *not* individuality. There are many styles of tops, pants, dresses, etc., to choose from, even if the tops must have a collar (and be tucked in) and the bottoms can't show your crack or have undies sticking out, skirts and dresses are finger-tip length (I buy larger with an adjustable waist since my DD is tall).
You can individualize with socks, shoes, hair accessories, jewelry, etc. Kids can show their fashion sense outside of school - like most working people show theirs outside of work. I wish our district had uniforms for middle school.
The cost of replenishing a uniform wardrobe is a fraction of the usual BTS shopping. I spend $20 to outfit my kids for a new school year.
And middle school boys distracted by what girls wear - they're distracted by girls themselves - why add questionable clothing into the mix? And no logos are allowed on the clothes, which cuts down on the "designer" issues.
Many professions require uniforms. Even teachers have dress codes.
If you don't want to send your child to a school with a uniform code, then pick another school. Very simple, rather than insisting your child be the only one not in uniform at a uniform school. Baaa.
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yeah, not so easy to always find uniform clothing for a hard to fit build. Plus I am MUCH LESS LIKELY to find it for a price that I am willing to pay. If they can express their individuality thru hairpieces, jewelry, shoes, then why not clothes? That one doesn't make sense.
Maybe uniforms are cost effective for YOU, but again that doesn't mean they're cost effective for everyone else.
UMMM... you know if your chosen profession will/will not require a uniform. You CHOOSE your profession. I personally would not be in a profession that requires a uniform. That is MY choice as an adult, is has not been dictated to me as a student.
HEre is my take on it and this is all I am going to say.
Uniforms do nto rob students of their individuality. I have lots of students and they express their individual personalities every day in many ways, all while wearing the same uniform. Someone mentioned that gang members wil find a way to display their gang signs anyway. I don't care about the symbols, it is the guns that go with them. There is a great utube video that shows just how baggy pants can conceal an arsenal. Uniforms eliminate soooo much teasing and fighting amoung the kids about who is waering what brand name.
Tucking in their shirts is also a safety issue, and I have never had an overweight child complain about it, because everyone has to do it so they are all in the same boat. The overweight child would just be more obvious with an untucked shirt (coming form someone who is pooh sized herself and always has been) All in all as an educator I think that uniforms have vastly improved our school climate and the self esteem of our students in general. The number of fights and office referrals has dropped by a large margin since the policy was put in place. We have some fairly low income students mixed with fairly affluent students, and now everyone is on the same footing as far as clothes go. The children whose parents just can't afford to dress them is $200 shoes and $100 jeans no longer have to fell substandard. It allows me to be free to focus teaching rather that moderating disagreeements about clothing or dealing with dress code violations which inevitabley resulted in a 10 min discussion on why the patricular item was a violation.
I realize that there are a lot of parents that think that the school should not be able to tell them how to dress their kids, btu please be aware that at least at our school, we aretrying to do waht is best for the kids. Both emotionally and academically. It really has made a huge positive diffference in our school climate!
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Glad for you that it is working in your environment, but it wouldn't fly w/ me. No, I don't buy my DD's $100 shoes or $200 jeans. But I also don't want to have to spend $30 on a pair of pants for school because they meet YOUR requirements of acceptability. I guess I would be residing in the administrator's office at your school as my kid would be coming to school the way I see fit to dress them. I don't have a problem w/ reasonable limits (i.e. no butt crack/undies showing, pants fitting appropriately as in not too tight or too large for weapons to be hidden in, no cleavage hanging out, I'm even okay w/ no spaghetti straps or tanks) but when you tell me my kids can't wear plain jeans and a non-offensive crew neck t shirt to school, you've crossed the line. That it totally acceptable attire to learn in. Have you looked at college kids lately? Aren't they there to learn?
And BTW, if you had me or my kids in your class you'd hear chronic complaining about tucked in shirts. We DON'T WEAR THEM THAT WAY. My girls and I too wear lots of baby doll style or plain tees.
One of my girlfriends teaches in a charter school. Middle school students. They tried for a dress code - it wasn't much. No midriff baring. No short skirts. This isn't a problem for parents who have money - but what they discovered mid-year is that they had a significant number of kids whose parents live on a shoestring. Shirts that covered an eighth grade girl fine in September were midriff bearing after a growth spurt. Skirts that were long enough got shorter over the course of the year. And the parents were "we don't have budget for anything else, she comes to school in this, or she doesn't go." So they dropped the dress code - they are required to provide an education and can't set up barriers to that education.
I don't find uniforms to be bad, but I think you have to recognize that not all parents have the means (in a public school setting) to have a special set of school clothes.
This is PUBLIC SCHOOL. So I can't just pick another public school to send my child to.
Private school- go ahead with uniforms if that is what the school deems proper. It's the public school aspect that I have issues with.
Exactly same way here. Our kids are districted to one of the top schools in the county and I HATE the school. The Admin there SUCKS! But they have to go based on where you live. While I hate wishing her childhood away, I am glad that this is my daughter's last year of high school. It has been a terrible experience for her. OH my daughter's had some real winners there! One teacher was sleeping w/ a couple of the students (he's in jail awaiting trial), another teacher called the whole class to their faces "a bunch of F***ing retards (how's that for a role model?), and there's been other garbage too. This was just last year's stuff. I really think around here, we have bigger fish to fry than whether the kids should be wearing uniforms.
Why??? I don't understand why only public schools. There are dress codes of some sort in almost all government buildings. The driver's lscensce bureau will not serve you without a shirt and shoes. Improper court attire and you can be held in contempt of court. I guess I just don't understand why a uniform at school is such an imposition on a child's freedom of expression. What is the big deal with everybody wearing the same color shirt and pants? Why is it such an imposition,and why is it not a concession you are willing to make if it produces a safer more positive school environment for your child? I am really not trying to argue, I would just like to know what your views are.
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that is absurd...trying to compare that to school uniforms. MVA just says you gotta have a shirt and shoes, they don't care what kind. And as far as court, I have NEVER heard of someone around here being held in contempt for their wardrobe (trust me, that would make our local small town paper big time!). And even if you did have to wear something special, it would be for one day not every day, day in, day out. There's no reasonable comparison between the two. Sorry.
My views are that the school has a responsibility to educate the children. If a parent decides not to buy clothing that conforms to the dress code, that doesn't absolve the school of the responsibility to educate the child - and the child should not be punished for their parents lack of compliance.
It has nothing to do with personal expression. And in theory, I like the idea of uniforms. It has to do with I really don't think it can be enforced. And I really don't want to see my district spend resources trying to enforce it because I find enforcement unsupportable.
Private schools are a different matter. Parents choose to send their kids to a private school and in making that choice, agree to conform to whatever standards the school sets - if that is the kids wear a uniform, or go to mass every day, or can be expelled for dancing - those are the rules the student and parents agreed to.
Yes it is the school's job to educate the child. It is the parent's job to provide clothing, and not to the school's choosing.
My view- I have 4 kids. I hand down clothing. I have appropriate clothing for my younger boys that I assumed they would be able to wear. I don't want to have to go out and buy uniforms for my public school children. I am for a DRESS CODE. That's not an issue for me. As I have appropriate clothing. At a public school, which is funded by my property taxes, I don't think I should be forced to purchase specific clothing for my kids to attend PUBLIC school.
It's administration just not wanting to bother enforcing a dress code imho. So they pass a uniform- I went to Catholic School my whole life and I can assure you that just because you have a uniform on doesn't mean it's a safer environment. I saw it in action.
bolding is mine.... YUP!
In our county, not all the public schools have the dress code. If parents don't want their kids to wear uniforms they can choose a school that doesn't require them. No one is forced to choose a school with a uniform policy. People are always giving away too-small uniforms at the school, on Freecycle, etc., so really I don't see how you can't get uniforms for your kids if you really want them to go to that particular school. Most people go buy new school clothes for their kids anyway, so in this case you're just choosing solid color tops and bottoms in certain colors over whatever the latest clothing trend.
There is no barrier put up by the school board by having uniforms. You can choose the school you want your child to attend, and kids switch schools mid-year all the time for various reasons. The schools that require uniforms are well known and posted on the School Board website, so it's not like parents get blind-sided when they choose a school.
I don't see what a big deal it is, really, more like people making a mountain out of a molehill.
We don't live in FL. and not all states operate that way. Lucky you that yours does and you have a choice. Not everybody has the same choice as you. Be thankful for your opportunity to choose.
Your points are not TRUE in our state. I can NOT pick another PUBLIC school to send my child to. They are assigned a school and that's the one they must attend unless I want to pay for them to go to private.
I can see that you won't understand my point of view and that's fine. Just try to understand that not everyone thinks the way you do and that we all don't have the same public school system that you have in the state of Florida.
Exactly. Maybe some of the other states should take a lesson from FL and allow the parents to choose which school we want our children to go to.
Hmmmm .... Novel concept.
) We feel the OP's pain!!!!!!!!
