Baby on lap

[justhat]

If you're doing a cost-benefit analysis, don't forget the benefit to the parent of having the child secured in a CRS that he cannot escape from -- especially on an overnight flight. I don't know about the rest of you, but I like to be able to sleep on a transatlantic flight, and there was no way that I was going to be able to with a toddler loose and able to get into God knows what. I also like to be able to eat my meals WITHOUT little Miss Sticky Fingers crammed between me and my plate.

I have never been reticent about admitting that while there is a small safety benefit to my child in using a carseat on board, there is a HUGE convenience benefit for me. It's not comfortable trying to wrangle a squirmy baby in a coach seat for hours on end, and I'm not about to do it if I don't have to.

That was my initial comment on this thread (as I didn't want to get into the safety aspect, but was sucked in!). It is 100% more convenient to NOT hold my child on a flight. There is NO WAY my 15 month old would stay on my lap throughout a flight, without screaming the entire time. She hates to be held, hates it. Took her 14 months to learn how to walk and she is making up for lost time. She wants to walk everywhere. And my older kids walked way earlier, so they wanted down by 10 months. So I don't see how holding a screaming, squirmy toddler would be remotely enjoyable.

 

[kidshop]

I'm replying en masse since you all are making essentially the same points.

What you are missing, is that it is all a cost/benefit analysis. Cost includes money and hassle. Benefit includes actual increase in safety plus any relief you get from thinking you are safer. And despite, the protestations otherwise, I GUARANTEE that all of you engage in this analysis and do not ALWAYS choose the safest option no matter what the cost (monetary or otherwise.) As one of you mentioned, you FACTOR safety into decisions, but it isn't the SOLE factor.

Despite the failed analogy that I'm playing Russian Roulette with my child by not buying her own seat (Really, there is a 1 in 6 chance that my baby will die by not getting her a seat?) or the equally failed analogy of why bother using a car seat since its a hassle too, if you apply a simple cost/benefit analysis, it seems hard to argue that you are really only getting MARGINAL increase in safety buying a lap baby a seat. That is not true with respect to car seats, which is why I reach a different conclusion in that dfferent situation.

And since it keeps getting brought up -- babies aren't unsecured if they are lap babies. They are SECURED by me. I am the seatbelt. Now, perhaps, I won't be as an effective seatbelt as a vinyl one that holds me, but you are again making a failed analogy by comparing a lap baby to a coffee pot.

Speaking of which, the stupid coffee pot isn't being secured the whole time anyway -- at some point in the flight it is taken out and used to actually give people coffee. But wouldn't it be safer to just keep it strapped down the whole time or to not even have it -- what happens if the plane hits unexpected turbulence and it goes flying, knocking a baby strapped into a seat somewhere unconscious? Is a cup of coffee really more important then the safety of a baby?

Ridiculous you may say? No, again it is just a cost/benefit analysis. The airlines deem that the benefit of people getting coffee outweighs the remote possibility of a baby getting injured -- and that does not mean that coffee is more important than babies.

Are there oxygen masks for lap babies, if for example the parts of the plane peel off in flight or other loss of pressure? Or is it one per seat? (I really don't know). Do you know where they have you put lap babies if crash postions are assumed?

The floor.

 

[tlbwriter]

Are there oxygen masks for lap babies, if for example the parts of the plane peel off in flight or other loss of pressure? Or is it one per seat? (I really don't know).

I've read that there is one extra mask per row. I know a woman who flew with two lap babies (twins) and when we discussed this, she was horrified to realize that in the event of an emergency, one of her kids would have had to do without. She just never thought about it.

 

[Zeebs]

Are there oxygen masks for lap babies, if for example the parts of the plane peel off in flight or other loss of pressure? Or is it one per seat? (I really don't know). Do you know where they have you put lap babies if crash postions are assumed?

The floor.

There are four masks in each row which is why you cannot have more than 1 lapchild.

You no longer put lap babies on the floor, this policy was changed a long time ago, the child goes into the brace position on your lap.

(someone will come along shortly and mention the fact that your child now becomes an airbag for you so I will beat them to it.)

The FAA is not the only governing body on air travel, what makes their recommendations more correct than other countries safety advice which differs in many ways.

I realise you abide by the rules of each country which is fine by me, yet I haven't found any of the airlines we fly with ever make us buy a seat for a under two if we didn't want to.

Kirsten

 

[NotUrsula]

I've read that there is one extra mask per row. I know a woman who flew with two lap babies (twins) and when we discussed this, she was horrified to realize that in the event of an emergency, one of her kids would have had to do without. She just never thought about it.

How on earth did she manage to do that? It's against policy on every carrier I know of. The FAA rule is only one lap baby per row, no exceptions, so if one adult is traveling alone with two babies, one of the babies has to have a paid seat (which of course comes with a mask as well.)

PS: Since someone mentioned other governing bodies, in my experience the one-lap-baby-per-row rule is pretty universal in the first world, because the planes are all manufactured with only one extra mask per row. I don't know about third-world carriers, but the majors seem to enforce that rule all over the world -- you're never allowed to have more passengers than you do oxygen masks.

 

[Zeebs]

How on earth did she manage to do that? It's against policy on every carrier I know of. The FAA rule is only one lap baby per row, no exceptions, so if one adult is traveling alone with two babies, one of the babies has to have a paid seat (which of course comes with a mask as well.)

PS: Since someone mentioned other governing bodies, in my experience the one-lap-baby-per-row rule is pretty universal in the first world, because the planes are all manufactured with only one extra mask per row. I don't know about third-world carriers, but the majors seem to enforce that rule all over the world -- you're never allowed to have more passengers than you do oxygen masks.

I mentioned governing bodies, but was talking about the rules of allowing lapchildren rather than how many in a row, I have also never seen them allow more than 1 per row due to the configuration of the oxygen masks.

Kirsten

 

[tinkmom76]

My child always flew as a lap baby until she was two. We flew with her last month and had a hard time of keeping her in her seat. It was actually easier when she was in the lap. We did not take her carseat because I've never seen a baby in a carseat on a plane plus it takes us about 15 minutes or so to get it properly secured when installing it.

 

[tlbwriter]

How on earth did she manage to do that? It's against policy on every carrier I know of. The FAA rule is only one lap baby per row, no exceptions, so if one adult is traveling alone with two babies, one of the babies has to have a paid seat (which of course comes with a mask as well.)

It was she and her husband and two babies. I said "you were all in the same row?" and she said not at first, but they traded with someone. I assume they traded after takeoff when the FA wasn't paying attention. I'm sure the FA could miss a tiny baby snuggled under a blanket in the parent's lap.

 

[Angeliki19]

Has anybody used this: http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog...Id=85184&categoryId=85218&subCategoryId=86218

I am traveling by air for the first time in June with my 20 month old son. We did not purchase him a seat, but this thread is making me really nervous now. I remember seeing this product and I am wondering if anybody thinks that this would be useful to have in case of an emergency? I know my DS won't sit still whether in his carseat or in my lap, but if things got bumpy this might be useful and remove the risk of you letting go of them...

What do you think?

 

[tlbwriter]

Has anybody used this: http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog...Id=85184&categoryId=85218&subCategoryId=86218

I am traveling by air for the first time in June with my 20 month old son. We did not purchase him a seat, but this thread is making me really nervous now. I remember seeing this product and I am wondering if anybody thinks that this would be useful to have in case of an emergency? I know my DS won't sit still whether in his carseat or in my lap, but if things got bumpy this might be useful and remove the risk of you letting go of them...

What do you think?

I had problems with the website, but from what I could tell, it looks similar to the Baby B'Air device, which means it won't be approved for using during takeoff or landing.

 

[EveDallas]

Has anybody used this: http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog...Id=85184&categoryId=85218&subCategoryId=86218

I am traveling by air for the first time in June with my 20 month old son. We did not purchase him a seat, but this thread is making me really nervous now. I remember seeing this product and I am wondering if anybody thinks that this would be useful to have in case of an emergency? I know my DS won't sit still whether in his carseat or in my lap, but if things got bumpy this might be useful and remove the risk of you letting go of them...

What do you think?

From the website:

Like other baby flight vests, it's intended for the cruise portion of flights and is not specifically approved for take-offs, landings, and taxiing

So it is basically useless for the riskiest parts of the flight.

 

[WicketsMom]

Has anybody used this: http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog...Id=85184&categoryId=85218&subCategoryId=86218

I am traveling by air for the first time in June with my 20 month old son. We did not purchase him a seat, but this thread is making me really nervous now. I remember seeing this product and I am wondering if anybody thinks that this would be useful to have in case of an emergency? I know my DS won't sit still whether in his carseat or in my lap, but if things got bumpy this might be useful and remove the risk of you letting go of them...

What do you think?

Go ahead and take your carseat with you to the gate. If there are seats available, they will give you one for your child even though you didn't purchase one. If there aren't, they will gate-check it for you. We were able to get seats for my son when he was under two on about 50% of the flights we were on without purchasing a seat.

 

[DopeyDame]

From the website:

Like other baby flight vests, it's intended for the cruise portion of flights and is not specifically approved for take-offs, landings, and taxiing

So it is basically useless for the riskiest parts of the flight.

You won't be able to use it any time the seatbelt light is on, so if you're getting it for the safety factor, don't waste your money.

 

[tlbwriter]

From the website:

Like other baby flight vests, it's intended for the cruise portion of flights and is not specifically approved for take-offs, landings, and taxiing

So it is basically useless for the riskiest parts of the flight.

Oh, cute. I like the way they insinuate it's been approved for other parts of the flight. It hasn't. Not by the FAA, anyway.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

I'm sure the FA could miss a tiny baby snuggled under a blanket in the parent's lap.

The baby should have been on the passenger manifest, even if not ticketed, so the FAs would have known he/she was there.

 

[tlbwriter]

The baby should have been on the passenger manifest, even if not ticketed, so the FAs would have known he/she was there.

Right, but I got the impression that the mom and dad (each with a baby) started out the flight in different rows, and ended up getting someone to switch with them so they could sit together (and I presume the FA forgot they both had a baby and the babies weren't visible enough to stand out). But I could be wrong. We didn't discuss it at length. I just remember being really surprised that they ended up on the same row.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Switching seats could have happened, but it absolutely should not have been allowed.

 

[tlbwriter]

Switching seats could have happened, but it absolutely should not have been allowed.

Well, I've heard of FAs telling parents they weren't allowed to install their carseat even when they bought their child a ticket, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that FAs either didn't notice the switch, or allowed it to happen in the first place. As in any profession, there are lot of intelligent, dedicated people and then there are a few who desperately need some retraining.

 

[justhat]

Well, I've heard of FAs telling parents they weren't allowed to install their carseat even when they bought their child a ticket, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that FAs either didn't notice the switch, or allowed it to happen in the first place. As in any profession, there are lot of intelligent, dedicated people and then there are a few who desperately need some retraining.

I so agree with that.

But, regarding the twins, is it possible that the 4 of them sat in a row of 3 with no strangers? Cause then it would be allowed, even if they were both lap babies.

 

[tlbwriter]

But, regarding the twins, is it possible that the 4 of them sat in a row of 3 with no strangers? Cause then it would be allowed, even if they were both lap babies.

I'm sure that could have happened, but in this case, I remember she was shocked to realize that there wouldn't have been enough oxygen masks for all four of them. So there must have been someone in each seat.