Avatar ground breaking = done deal?

[rteetz]

Star Wars is still very popular and not just among nostalgic adults. May any adults who grew up on Star Wars have introduced it to their kids who are now fans. Go to your local toy store and look at how much shelf space is devoted to Star Wars. Probably more space then any other single franchise. Also the Clone Wars TV series was very popular and brought Star Wars to a younger audience.

I agree disney should bring some of the old, present and future of Star Wars to the parks that would be great.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Yes, it really is quite fatiguing to hear these not so Golden all that matters is $$$ oldies repeating themselves endlessly:

~Wow. It's been a while, but nice baiting. I have purposely avoided this most "recent" Avatar debate. It used to be fun with all of the wild rumors about Avatarland being cancelled. But now, it's like what's the point? The project has been officially green lighted and the shovels are "officially" in the ground.

~Simply put -- we win, you lose. Avatarland is coming whether we like it or not. I, for one am very excited.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

For those of you who are long time Disney watchers what should we all take from the Avatar groundbreaking? Is this really going to happen and at the scale they've discussed?

I know Disney is always working on ideas, and that some projects start and never finish. Even when construction started.

Others go from "gigantic new land with three e-tickets and five restaurants" in concept to "land expansion with one mid-sized ride" at construction start to "themed bathroom and gift shop" by the end...

So how "locked in" is Disney on this, as a large scale project?

My uneducated guess is very locked in.

With all the activity at US, it would look bad to stop after all the hoopla (though it would take 24 hours and a Star Wars plan to overcome that...)

The bigger reason is that Disney seems to have a clear and compelling cost-benefit reward for turning AK into a full day park.

From a Disney-lover repeat visitor guest perspective Star Wars at HS is probably much more attractive. But HS is already an all day visit and while it needs work and SW would be really cool, from a beam counting perspective I'd bet just about any property this side of the Teletubbies that keeps people at AK for 4-5 more hours is a clearer win than anything they do elsewhere.

My conclusion? Pandora is coming, and in a fairly big way.

Agree? Disagree? What do wiser heads say?

~I totally agree. This project is going to be bigger or at least more expensive than I originally thought. The budget for Avatarland was $500,000,000 now it's $800,000,000. Yay!

Agreed. It is the time and AK is the place that will pay off big for their big $800 mil investment.

And remember: This is crazy James Cameron. He will NOT allow them to go small. He is smart. He has it as part of his deal that they won't go small.

This is going to be good.

~I totally agree. There is no such thing as "budget cut" in James Cameron's world. So, I predict a cool billion, when it's all said and done!

Ummmmm. For something to continue it must have a past.

Cameron is notorious for going slow and doing it right. New tech invented. Filming at bottom of ocean and all three filmed at once. It's gonna happen.

You always bring up franchise. We don't need no stinking franchise. Cameron will bring inventive unique amazing visuals and people will go to see it in droves. It's that irritatingly simple.

I think 3D is different now. For the first time it doesn't hurt, it was good and required for Gravity, and will be a niche. If it survives theaters it will survive as a niche in TV sets if not TV programming. I love 3D movies at home. Avatar is awesome!

~Yes! You make this so easy for me. And, James Cameron will be filming Avatar in a brand new format -- 60 fps. Soarin' was filmed in 48 fps. The majority of theaters are not even equipped to show films in this format. So, Cameron has established to team to assist movie cinema's in acquiring new equipment in preparation for the next installment of Avatar.

And Citizen Kane would make a crappy theme park land. What's your point?

Generally speaking, great films don't make great theme park lands. Great, immersive, compelling environments make great theme park lands.

Complex stories make awful theme park attractions (which is why I hope the Lord of the Rings/Disney rumors die - and I love the Tolkein books). Great theme park attractions tell simple stories - ones in which theme park guests can be immersed for a few minutes and walk away having "gotten it." Theme parks tell much of their story with atmosphere, architecture, lighting, music - things other than rides and "CPU cycles." THAT is where Cameron and Disney Imagineering working together will excel, and that is why there's every reason to believe that Pandora will be a great addition to Disney's Animal Kingdom.

~Very well said!

like a broken record....

blah blah blah blah... Disney Sucks.... blah blah blah blah... Universal and Harry Potter is Amazing and the only future of theme park rides.... blah blah blah blah... Avatar is the worst movie EVER... blah blah blah blah... Disney Sucks..... blah blah blah blah... Universal and Harry Potter is Amazing and the only future of theme park rides.... blah blah blah blah... Avatar is the worst movie EVER... blah blah blah blah....

Don't like the park? then don't go!! It is a free country. The way some folks carry on about Avatar is like it is life and death... relax.... no one is going to force you to ride the new Avatar rides or even go to Animal Kingdom. You can stay at Universal and ride the Forbidden Journey to your heart's content. But enough already with the silly over the top negativity.

~LOL, don't mess with Suger Mag.

 

[mvk]

My son is watching A New Hope (the original one, for those of you that think Star Wars is just a fad) as I type this. We watched Return of the Jedi last night. He's four years old. I don't think its just for nostalgia buffs.

He received a bunch of Star Wars action figures for Christmas this year, and a light saber. Last night, he just asked if he can get the Emperor, Jabba the Hutt, and Princess Leia action figures.

Star Wars is huge, one of the most valuable franchises out there, if not the most valuable.

If they can figure a way to make a cohesive land out of the franchise, it would be a huge game changer for DHS. I'd expect it would come close to overtaking Epcot quickly as the #2 park.

 

[Disney Von Drake]

Star Wars is huge, one of the most valuable franchises out there, if not the most valuable.

The popularity of Star Wars is fading fast. In the early twentieth century Tom Swift was hugely popular as well and now few people know of him.

A lot depends on the new Star Wars movies. They will either reinvigorate the franchise or place it along side of the Lone Ranger, Tonto and Davy Crockett in the land of old stale tales.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The popularity of Star Wars is fading fast. In the early twentieth century Tom Swift was hugely popular as well and now few people know of him.

A lot depends on the new Star Wars movies. They will either reinvigorate the franchise or place it along side of the Lone Ranger, Tonto and Davy Crockett in the land of old stale tales.

Except that is not what the money says...

Licensing is tracked each year worldwide...both the number of products and the gross from licensed products.

Star Wars has been the #1 licensed product 10 of the last 11 years...the other one they were second to toy story.

Star Wars looks really bad to Star Wars fans and Americans right now...no doubt...because he made crap.

But Disney didnt buy him out for a cool 4 bil to get its hands on Howard the duck and the young Indiana jones chronicles.

 

[Lewisc]

Which were for visual and technical elements, categories people don't even care about (quick - what film won best art direction at the 72nd Academy Awards in 1989? )

What they do remember are the winners for the big categories. That's where Avatar consistently struck out, losing best picture to the Hurt Locker, losing best director to Kathryn Bigelow, losing best original score to Michael Giacchino and losing best film editing to Chris Innis and Bob Murawski . It couldn't even pull out wins the lower tier audio oriented technical categories of sound editing or sound mixing. Most notably, (and not at all surprisingly) it wasn't even nominated in script or acting categories. How could it be, given the insipid plot and forgettable characters?

Avatar is an extremely popular movie. The box office figures and blu ray sales aren't in dispute.

Critically Avatar is "better then good". Rotten Tomatoes says 83% of the critics gave it a good review. 9 Oscar nominations indicate a movie which is respected.

None of the actors go nominated. Who cares. Do you think any of the actors would be employed, full time, at Disney?

It won for visual effects. Good. Maybe that talent can produce a land at AK which has that kind of impact.

The Pirates attraction produced some decent movies. Haunted House produced a bad movie.

What you think of the acting and plot of Avatar isn't relevant. The question is what will Disney and Cameron produce for the AK. Acting and plot of the movie have little to do with how good, or bad, the attraction will be.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Except that is not what the money says...

Licensing is tracked each year worldwide...both the number of products and the gross from licensed products.

Star Wars has been the #1 licensed product 10 of the last 11 years...the other one they were second to toy story.

Star Wars looks really and to Star Wars fans and Americans right now...no doubt...because he made crap.

But Disney didnt buy him out for a cool 4 bil to get its hands on Howard the duck and the young Indiana jones chronicles.

I agree.

Howard the Duck - the dark ride. Everyone wants that one.

 

[rteetz]

Avatar is an extremely popular movie. The box office figures and blu ray sales aren't in dispute. Critically Avatar is "better then good". Rotten Tomatoes says 83% of the critics gave it a good review. 9 Oscar nominations indicate a movie which is respected. None of the actors go nominated. Who cares. Do you think any of the actors would be employed, full time, at Disney? It won for visual effects. Good. Maybe that talent can produce a land at AK which has that kind of impact. The Pirates attraction produced some decent movies. Haunted House produced a bad movie. What you think of the acting and plot of Avatar isn't relevant. The question is what will Disney and Cameron produce for the AK. Acting and plot of the movie have little to do with how good, or bad, the attraction will be.

Agreed the visuals is what makes avatar. Cameron and disney have the capability to do great things.

 

[Priory]

Yes, the Blu Ray sold well, but analysts said that was solely because of the gimmick factor (it was one of the first 3d Blu Ray releases).

This is simply not true. Avatar was not available to purchase on 3D blu ray until October of 2012.

Prior to that it was bundled as an exclusive bonus for a certain brand of player. This of course would not factor into any sales data.

You may wish to inform your analysts of this.

 

[mvk]

The popularity of Star Wars is fading fast. In the early twentieth century Tom Swift was hugely popular as well and now few people know of him.

A lot depends on the new Star Wars movies. They will either reinvigorate the franchise or place it along side of the Lone Ranger, Tonto and Davy Crockett in the land of old stale tales.

You couldn't be more wrong about this. Star Wars will always be immensely popular.

I really enjoyed the prequels, but they were not well received by most. If those three movies didn't kill off the popularity, nothing will.

 

[Disney Von Drake]

Except that is not what the money says...

Licensing is tracked each year worldwide...both the number of products and the gross from licensed products.

Star Wars has been the #1 licensed product 10 of the last 11 years...the other one they were second to toy story.

Star Wars looks really and to Star Wars fans and Americans right now...no doubt...because he made crap.

But Disney didnt buy him out for a cool 4 bil to get its hands on Howard the duck and the young Indiana jones chronicles.

The current licensing deals are reflections of historical sales, not current sales. Star Wars merchandise sales have been on a downward slide for several years and its popularity continues to wane.

None of the top toy retailers (i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Toy's "R" Us, etc.) had any Star Wars toys in their top ten sales this past year.

Disney knows that the franchise needs a shot in the arm and they're counting on the upcoming movies to put Star Wars back on the map instead of it being a play land for nostalgia geeks.

 

[mvk]

The current licensing deals are reflections of historical sales, not current sales. Star Wars merchandise sales have been on a downward slide for several years and its popularity continues to wane.

None of the top toy retailers (i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Toy's "R" Us, etc.) had any Star Wars toys in their top ten sales this past year.

Disney knows that the franchise needs a shot in the arm and they're counting on the upcoming movies to put Star Wars back on the map instead of it being a play land for nostalgia geeks.

I'm looking for more recent numbers, but in 2011 sales, Star Wars was #2 behind Disney Princesses, as far as licensed merchandise sales for franchises go. They made $1.5B that year, a 6% increase from 2010.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennago...f-the-20-best-selling-entertainment-products/

Edit -

I see they made $1.5B in 2012 as well, good for #2 again behind Disney Princesses.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...nsed-merchandise-sales-in-2012-228647991.html

The 2013 numbers won't likely be out until October, as that was when they released the two prior ones.

Disney has the following in the top 10 -
1. Princesses
2. Star Wars
4. Cars
5. Pooh & Friends
6. Mickey & Friends
10. Toy Story

 

[tcpiii]

Could not stand the movie. FX were great but that was it for me.

 

[twebber55]

I believe hello kitty is up near the top as well

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The current licensing deals are reflections of historical sales, not current sales. Star Wars merchandise sales have been on a downward slide for several years and its popularity continues to wane.

None of the top toy retailers (i.e. Wal-Mart, Target, Toy's "R" Us, etc.) had any Star Wars toys in their top ten sales this past year.

Disney knows that the franchise needs a shot in the arm and they're counting on the upcoming movies to put Star Wars back on the map instead of it being a play land for nostalgia geeks.

Declining sales are most definitely due to lack of new material...
With all due respect to Cartoon Network...stat wars is a movie franchise...
And its been almost a decade since the last rather ghastly movie.

That being said...that's still a heck of a number.

I'd be interested to see anybody put up that kinda number after 10 years...
Disney characters are never given that much time off.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I believe hello kitty is up near the top as well

As well as peanuts

 

[mvk]

Declining sales are most definitely due to lack of new material...
With all due respect to Cartoon Network...stat wars is a movie franchise...
And its been almost a decade since the last rather ghastly movie.

That being said...that's still a heck of a number.

I'd be interested to see anybody put up that kinda number after 10 years...
Disney characters are never given that much time off.

Except sales aren't declining. As I posted above, in 2011, they spiked 6% to $1.5B. In 2012, they stayed at $1.5B.

Nothing there indicates that sales are declining. They might not have an individual toy in the WalMart/Target top 10, but they sale such a wide range of merchandise that they still are #2 in licensed sales overall.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I cannot believe anyone would argue that Star Wars is a fading franchise! Only if you also believe Disney is a fading theme park company. And UFO's are real, and bigfoot has found Noah's ark...



mvk, don't bother with facts and statistics, they don't matter.

Oh, on another note, there is a popular misconception that the Star Wars prequels were a failure because of all the fan boy rancor talked about to this day. Nothing could be further from the truth.

1999 Phantom Menace - Budget: $115 Worldwide: $1 Billion
2002 Attack of the Clones - Budget:$115 Worldwide: $649.4 Million
2005 Revenge of the Sith - Budget: $113 Worldwide: $848.8 Million

Another truth; if a movie is bad, the sequel's drop off very quickly. Yes AOTC dropped but was still a huge hit, and ROTS did great. Total for the three was almost $2.5 Billion on a $343 Million investment! Every movie company in the world wishes they could fail like that!

Go visit a toy store or talk to elementary and Jr. High kids. Star Wars is doing just fine. Clone Wars, toys, books, and continuing interest in the 6 movies are keeping it going fine.

I would say the Star Wars is like Disney - In popular culture their is no property that even comes close for longevity and broad appeal. It's place in culture is on par with Santa Claus, but a little bit more profitable.

 

[mvk]

I cannot believe anyone would argue that Star Wars is a fading franchise! Only if you also believe Disney is a fading theme park company. And UFO's are real, and bigfoot has found Noah's ark...

Well, according to some here, Disney is about to be toppled by Universal any day now.

Hyperbole from me? A bit, but not too much.