Availabilty renting points vs WDW reservations???

[Syndrome]

Hi,
Just a dumb question for some of you DVC experts.
We are looking to rent points and every time I try to check with a DVC member that has points to rent, there is nothing available.
Why is it that on the WDW website there are a lot of available 1 bdrm and some studios for direct reservations and nothing available for DVC members ???
Just curious if this is how it works ??? I couldnt imagine that the same rooms would be available to the general public but not to the DVC MEMBERS ???

Thanks,
Syndrome

 

[Deb & Bill]

Hi,
Just a dumb question for some of you DVC experts.
We are looking to rent points and every time I try to check with a DVC member that has points to rent, there is nothing available.
Why is it that on the WDW website there are a lot of available 1 bdrm and some studios for direct reservations and nothing available for DVC members ???
Just curious if this is how it works ??? I couldnt imagine that the same rooms would be available to the general public but not to the DVC MEMBERS ???

Thanks,
Syndrome

...

There are two different sets of DVC inventory. Some available for points only and some available for cash only. The points inventory represents all the points member have purchased through their real estate purchase of DVC points. The cash inventory comes from many sources. It can be inventory that DVC owns at each resort (they own about 2-4% of each resort). It can be inventory not yet sold (like at Aulani, AKV or GFV). It can be inventory bought back by Right of First Refusal or returned to DVC through foreclosure. Or it could be inventory already traded out by member that must be sold to pay for their non-DVC Disney vacations (like DCL, ABV, non-DVC Disney hotels).

So what you see available for cash at the Disney Reservation Center website, will not be available for a points stay. Plus at 60 days out any unused inventory (for a points reservation) is turned over to DRC to sell and that money turned over to reduce member dues at that particular resort.

Two months out for October will be very difficult if not impossible for a points stay. Members have waitlists now and those will be filled as other members cancel. Most members book at eleven months out for times from the end of September through early January.

 

[Syndrome]

O.k. Thanks for the clarification.
I just cant understand that DVC members would not be able to get the same rooms that the general public would be able to buy on a "cash" basis.
I guess thats just another reason why DVC isnt for us. We find it hard to make plans for trips 11 months out.
The funny thing is that using a 35% discount (bounce back) for villas, its a little cheaper that $14. per point. If I could find points for $11 - $12 per, it would be worth it.
We got a great deal form a great disser last year for a studio at BWV during the exact same time frame, and it was very reasonable. I was hoping for something this year as well. I guess we will just have to keep our bounce back offer (which is just fine) for this trip.

Thanks for explaining the details,

Syndrome

 

[erionm]

I just cant understand that DVC members would not be able to get the same rooms that the general public would be able to buy on a "cash" basis.

When a member exchanges out to DCL, ABD or a non-DVC hotel, the room that is turned over to DRC is already technically booked on points and can't be booked with points a second time.

 

[Syndrome]

When a member exchanges out to DCL, ABD or a non-DVC hotel, the room that is turned over to DRC is already technically booked on points and can't be booked with points a second time.

I completely understand from a resorts stand point. They dont want available rooms sitting idle when they can be reserved on a cash basis.
But doesnt that irritate DVC members that they cant book reservations on a more of a last minute time frame. Looking at the demand and waitlist for DVC properties, I would think it would make sense to open reservations up to both cash, and DVC members at the 7 month and under window.

I cant imagine any DVC owners complaining if they were able to still make reservations a little closer to their trip date .

Syndrome

 

[erionm]

But doesnt that irritate DVC members that they cant book reservations on a more of a last minute time frame. Looking at the demand and waitlist for DVC properties, I would think it would make sense to open reservations up to both cash, and DVC members at the 7 month and under window.

I cant imagine any DVC owners complaining if they were able to still make reservations a little closer to their trip date .

Syndrome

Not if they understand the system.

When a member uses points for a cruise, DVC has to pay DCL for the cruise. A room is turned over to DRC to reserve out for cash to help cover what DVC paid to DCL. If that room was reserved using points instead, there would be no money coming in to cover the cost of that cruise the other member took using their points. This applies to all Disney Collection, Adventure Collection and Concierge Collection reservations.

And yes, if DRC can't reserve the room for cash it will sit empty.

 

[DebbieB]

I completely understand from a resorts stand point. They dont want available rooms sitting idle when they can be reserved on a cash basis.
But doesnt that irritate DVC members that they cant book reservations on a more of a last minute time frame. Looking at the demand and waitlist for DVC properties, I would think it would make sense to open reservations up to both cash, and DVC members at the 7 month and under window.

I cant imagine any DVC owners complaining if they were able to still make reservations a little closer to their trip date .

Syndrome

If a member trades out for a cruise as an example, DVC has to pay the cruise line for their reservation. So they send a room or rooms to CRO based on the number of points the member used for the cruise. CRO then reimburses DVC and DVC pays the cruise line. If they let a member have it for points, where would the money come from for DVC to reimburse the cruise line?

Also, some of the CRO rooms are from points DVC itself owns. Either from unsold points, points returned from right of first refusal or foreclosures. They are renting those points through CRO and want their money for them. Just like a member who rents their points.

 

[Syndrome]

If a member trades out for a cruise as an example, DVC has to pay the cruise line for their reservation. So they send a room or rooms to CRO based on the number of points the member used for the cruise. CRO then reimburses DVC and DVC pays the cruise line. If they let a member have it for points, where would the money come from for DVC to reimburse the cruise line?

Also, some of the CRO rooms are from points DVC itself owns. Either from unsold points, points returned from right of first refusal or foreclosures. They are renting those points through CRO and want their money for them. Just like a member who rents their points.

I am not talking about trading out for cruises. I was talking about the rooms at wdw that WILL sit empty when they dont get reserved on a cash reservation basis.
On the simplest of levels, it doesnt make sense (to me) for WDW to let DVC rooms sit empty while MANY DVC owners would gladly opt to use their points on an imprumptu trip to Disney. More guests equals more $$$ for Disney, no matter how you look at it. Guests spend money, even if they are using points for the reservation.
Granted, Disney would make a lot more money on a cash reservation basis for the room, providing it doesnt sit empty. I am sure alot of DVC rooms must sit empty for the prices Disney charges for a cash reservation for the Villa's.

Not debating anyone on how the hotel business works, but if I were a DVC member I would be a little upset seeing all the available DVC rooms, that I couldnt use my points for.
Belive me, we have tried to justify becoming DVC members for MANY years (and we would REALLY love too buy DVC), but this is pretty much the only thing keeping us from buying. It just doesnt work for us to book trips a year in advance. We can do 3-6 months at the most ..........by then, nothing is available because they are allocated into a different cash reservation system ???
Sorry , I just cant wrap my head around that.
Doesnt matter anyway ..........Disney has us no matter how you look at it. We are at least 1-2 trips every year.
DVC would work SO WELL for us if we could just be able to book a reservation a little closer to the trip date.

Oh well ............
Thanks for everyones input !

Syndrome

 

[erionm]

I am not talking about trading out for cruises. I was talking about the rooms at wdw that WILL sit empty when they dont get reserved on a cash reservation basis.

Most of those rooms don't become available until a member uses points outside of the DVC system.

 

[Sammie]

I completely understand from a resorts stand point. They dont want available rooms sitting idle when they can be reserved on a cash basis.
But doesnt that irritate DVC members that they cant book reservations on a more of a last minute time frame. Looking at the demand and waitlist for DVC properties, I would think it would make sense to open reservations up to both cash, and DVC members at the 7 month and under window.

I cant imagine any DVC owners complaining if they were able to still make reservations a little closer to their trip date .

Syndrome

Doesn't bother me at all, that inventory as far as I am concerned does not even exist to me the member.

Also I understand that in order for me to get full use of my membership, by trading out to non DVC locations and even the Disney cruise that has to be paid for some how.

We can do 3-6 months at the most ..........by then, nothing is available because they are allocated into a different cash reservation system ???

The percentage that Disney owns, is never available to members, its about 2-3%. The other is used to pay for trade outs and cruises. If you try to book at 3-6 months and nothing is available it is not due to cash reservations it is due to members that book at 11 months and 7 months.

DVC does not work well for late bookings not due to the way it is set up but due to the popularity of the resort by its members.

 

[myzel]

As stated by others, DVC has to recoupe costs. If they do not turn rooms over to CRO for cash then we as members must pay it in our MF. What you may be seeing on the web site may only be one empty room, it does not show how much availability just availability. BTW you would be amazed how many people pay rack rate just to get the reservation they want, or people who do not know to look for discounts.

 

[chainkid]

DVC is not for everyone and especially someone who cannot plan ahead for their vacations. I have gotten last minute reservations many times but not always the type of unit i wanted or the even the resort I wanted. Once i bought in I learned exactly how the system worked and used it to my advantage as i am a planner. I love DVC and usually get what I want at 11months out. If I couldn't plan ahead i would not own DVC as i prefer to vacation at my home resort and would not be totally happy anywhere else. I understand the need for the separate inventory and have often just paid cash to get a room otherwise not available thru points. I have the same chance as the general public at that point.

 

[taaren]

I am not talking about trading out for cruises. I was talking about the rooms at wdw that WILL sit empty when they dont get reserved on a cash reservation basis.
On the simplest of levels, it doesnt make sense (to me) for WDW to let DVC rooms sit empty while MANY DVC owners would gladly opt to use their points on an imprumptu trip to Disney. More guests equals more $$$ for Disney, no matter how you look at it. Guests spend money, even if they are using points for the reservation.
Granted, Disney would make a lot more money on a cash reservation basis for the room, providing it doesnt sit empty. I am sure alot of DVC rooms must sit empty for the prices Disney charges for a cash reservation for the Villa's.

Not debating anyone on how the hotel business works, but if I were a DVC member I would be a little upset seeing all the available DVC rooms, that I couldnt use my points for.
Belive me, we have tried to justify becoming DVC members for MANY years (and we would REALLY love too buy DVC), but this is pretty much the only thing keeping us from buying. It just doesnt work for us to book trips a year in advance. We can do 3-6 months at the most ..........by then, nothing is available because they are allocated into a different cash reservation system ???
Sorry , I just cant wrap my head around that.
Doesnt matter anyway ..........Disney has us no matter how you look at it. We are at least 1-2 trips every year.

The members would be a lot MORE upset if their dues went up because the rooms didn't get rented out, or if the owner of those points at that time (DVD through CRO) didn't fork over the part of dues to cover those empty rooms.

Its also probable that most members would be more upset if they didn't have the option to use their points on Disney Cruises, Disney Hotels, ABD, etc. Personally I'd trade all that in in a heartbeat to keep more DVC rooms available, as I don't, and probably never will trade out unless something happens to restrict my points by accident (and even then I'd probably rent them out) but I understand others (eg. the vast majority of the membership) like having the flexibility and it makes the system work better overall.

 

[DebbieB]

Actually DVC has reduced the number of rooms available for points on cruises most likely because of the difficulty renting the cash rooms through CRO to cover the cost. The number of points through the Disney Collection in general have skyrocketed, probably for the same reason. They also added a $95 fee.

The only members who should be upset about CRO inventory are those who don't understand how the system works.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You can't use points to pay housekeepers. It's funny but Publix and the power company have no use for points.

You can't use points to pay for maintenance to the villas. For all those villas available for rent for cash on the DRC site, the money is needed to pay for something at DVC. DVC members using points to stay at a resort who buy food at that resort or who visit a theme park don't provide any extra money to pay for that cruise another DVC member took.

 

[Sandisw]

I am not talking about trading out for cruises. I was talking about the rooms at wdw that WILL sit empty when they dont get reserved on a cash reservation basis.
On the simplest of levels, it doesnt make sense (to me) for WDW to let DVC rooms sit empty while MANY DVC owners would gladly opt to use their points on an imprumptu trip to Disney. More guests equals more $$$ for Disney, no matter how you look at it. Guests spend money, even if they are using points for the reservation.
Granted, Disney would make a lot more money on a cash reservation basis for the room, providing it doesnt sit empty. I am sure alot of DVC rooms must sit empty for the prices Disney charges for a cash reservation for the Villa's.

Not debating anyone on how the hotel business works, but if I were a DVC member I would be a little upset seeing all the available DVC rooms, that I couldnt use my points for.
Belive me, we have tried to justify becoming DVC members for MANY years (and we would REALLY love too buy DVC), but this is pretty much the only thing keeping us from buying. It just doesnt work for us to book trips a year in advance. We can do 3-6 months at the most ..........by then, nothing is available because they are allocated into a different cash reservation system ???
Sorry , I just cant wrap my head around that.
Doesnt matter anyway ..........Disney has us no matter how you look at it. We are at least 1-2 trips every year.
DVC would work SO WELL for us if we could just be able to book a reservation a little closer to the trip date.

Oh well ............
Thanks for everyones input !

Syndrome

Its not about booking those options, its about paying for them if members want them as an option. I try to think of it this way. As a member, I decide I want to cruise. So, I basically take the points I have and reserve a room that is then turn turned over to Disney to rent for me to pay for the cruise. So, as mentioned, some of one rooms you are seeing have already been technically reserved by me, the member, and I am allowing a cash guest to stay in it so that I can go on a cruise instead.

Granted, this is a simplistic way to think about it, but as long as those trade out options exist, then there has to be a way for members to turn their points in to cash for those options.

I think that those of us that are members understand this and it is why we are okay with the way that it works.

 

[Starr W.]

I think that those of us that are members understand this and it is why we are okay with the way that it works.

, plus I usually book no later than 7 months, depending on the unit/season I book right at the 11 month window. We also have Wyndham points, so I usually book early(10 months) with those also. Their home resort priority starts at 13 months!

 

[bakerworld]

Hi,
Just a dumb question for some of you DVC experts.
We are looking to rent points and every time I try to check with a DVC member that has points to rent, there is nothing available.
Why is it that on the WDW website there are a lot of available 1 bdrm and some studios for direct reservations and nothing available for DVC members ???
Just curious if this is how it works ??? I couldnt imagine that the same rooms would be available to the general public but not to the DVC MEMBERS ???

Thanks,
Syndrome

Cannot compare the WDW website with DVC availability - just the number of rooms makes that like comparing an orange to a melon.

 

[crisi]

Some members do get upset. But once you understand the system, you understand two things.

1) Those rooms are not OURS. They don't belong to us - we - as members - have sold them (through DVD) back to Disney. Its like selling your old car to the neighbor and then expecting to use your spare key to use it because its sitting in the neighbors driveway unused for the weekend

2) If those rooms were ours - and what you are looking at is October or December - they'd have been booked months ago anyway. There are some very popular times for DVC rooms, and the few rooms DVC releases into the CRO system at that time of year wouldn't come close to meeting demand. There have been waitlists in place for October for months now. And December for a few months.

 

[Syndrome]

I am starting to understand all this now. It makes more sense.
I think a lot of the DVC rooms dont actually go empty anyway from what I have been checking.
Checked for a cash reservation this weekend and nothing was available. So maybe the rooms are used up more that I was thinking.
I guess its a good thing that the maintenance fees dont go up because of how the system works.

I guess DVC is not for everyone is the moral of the story. DVC would be an easy decision for us monetarily, but its the logistics that wont allow us to be DVC members. We are last minute trip takers, and 6 months in advance is about the farthest out we can plan something. Thats pushing it. Sometimes we need to play around with dates even after we make a reservation. With the WDW reservation (cash) system, thats generally pretty easy to modify a reservation. I can see that with DVC its pretty much impossible to alter a reservation.
Its just the way it has to be ( in my best ROZ accent) lol.

The only way renting DVC villas works for us last minute planners, (since just renting points for a reservation at the last minute is impossible) is to rent an actual DVC reservation that is already in place at the last minute.......thats what we did last year. Worked out great.

We love DVC Villas, just wish buying DVC would work for us.

Thanks for the info, and helping me understand how it all works.

Syndrome