Autopsy results are in..

C.Ann

<font color=green>We'll remember when...<br><font
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May 13, 2001
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Offical cause of death for my DD's friend was ARDS - Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome and multiple organ failure..

I did a search on this syndrome and nothing has ever scared me as badly as this ARDS has.. It can hit anyone - babies, children, teenagers, young adults, middle-aged, elderly - with NO warning -and there is only a 50% chance of survival when detected immediately.. Most patients die within a week to 10 days.. If it is not detected immediately and/or you have other health problems (even something as simple as bronchitis, mono, pneumonia, asthma, minor surgery - or even an inury from an accident or fall) the odds of survival drop dramatically - as low as 10%..

There is NO way that DD's friend ever could have survived this and when DD arrives here tomorrow (I'm at the lake) I will share these web sites with her.. Perhaps it will answer some of her questions, as it has certainly answered many of mine..

I also located Memorial Pages for ARDS victims and a Pen Pal Circle that I will share with her as well..

I don't think anything has ever "jolted" me as much as reading about ARDS.. Perfectly healthy people are dying from this every day and the idea that it could strike any one of us - at any time - is mind-boggling.. :(
 
That is incredibly scary! Just wanted to let you know that you're still in my prayers. :hug:
 
Very scary. Glad it was able to answer some questions for you.

Best wishes to you, your in my prayers.
 

I hope that this will bring a sense of peace for your DD.
 
Originally posted by C.Ann
Offical cause of death for my DD's friend was ARDS - Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome and multiple organ failure..

I don't think anything has ever "jolted" me as much as reading about ARDS.. Perfectly healthy people are dying from this every day and the idea that it could strike any one of us - at any time - is mind-boggling.. :(


First, I want to say how sorry I am to hear of the death of your dd's dear friend. I have been following your posts about it and praying about it. I will agree with others that your dd should get some small comfort in knowing there was nothing that could have been done to save her friend that wasn't done.

However, I really want to give you a bit of reassurance. Healthy people are not dying of ARDS - one must be severely injured or very sick to be at risk for developing this syndrome. Yes, anyone can develop it after a critical illness or injury, (even if they were previously healthy) and it does have a horrible mortality rate, but it's not something that's going to suddenly happen to anyone who is in a good state of health. You may have seen this site already, but it's a great overview for others who may be interested.

http://www.ards.org/learnaboutards/whatisards/brochure/

Here is a bit more technical information, if anyone is interested.
http://pulmonarychannel.com/ards/

Again, my deepest sympathies to your dd. She was a wonderful friend and I'm so sorry she's had to go through such an awful experience. She will remain in my prayers.

Laurie :hug:
 
Oh my,

<b>Incidence
According to the American Lung Association, the incidence of ARDS ranges from as low as 1.5 to as high as 71 per 100,000 persons in the United States.</b>

I would think with statistics such as these that we should have all heard about it. That really amazes me that I've never even heard of such a thing. It's certainly not up there with Cancer, Heart Disease, Diabetes or AIDS, but it effects enough people that you would think we would be aware of it at least.

It is very scary!! I too am keeping your family in my prayers. Hang in there.
 
The reason you don't hear more about it is because it isn't really a "disease". It has to be caused by something else and you have to have that disease before you can get ARDS. It can be caused by infections, trauma, etc etc but you CAN'T come down with ARDS just out of the blue.
Basically there will never be a "cure" for ARDS you cure the underlying disease. Think of it as a "fever". Nobody runs around saying we must find a cure for fever.. you cure the disease causing the fever.
 
So sorry about your DD's friend.

I am a nurse in an ICU and see this all too often. Laurie is right, only people who are already debilitated can develope ARDS. It is very difficult to treat the symptoms of ARDS and treat the "real" illness as well.

My prayers to her family and yours. Such a sad time for all of you. :(

heidi
 
Originally posted by laurie31

http://www.ards.org/learnaboutards/whatisards/brochure/

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Again, my deepest sympathies to your dd. She was a wonderful friend and I'm so sorry she's had to go through such an awful experience. She will remain in my prayers.

Laurie :hug:
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This first link that you posted is the one I referred to in my post.. I wasn't terribly alarmed until I went on to read the Memorials and some of the the relatively non-serious injuries and illnesses that then went on to develop into ARDS and unltimately resulted in death..

It was so sad - reading about people who thought they had a minor illness or were having minor surgery - and ended up dying from this horrible medical condition..

However, I truly believe that even with an immediate diagnosis, my DD's friend would not have survived because they were unable to determine what the underlying original problem (or problems) were due to her large amount of body mass.. Many tests could not be performed because they couldn't get clear readings so I doubt that we'll ever know what actually caused the ARDS to develop.. :(

Still - I'm hoping that just knowing this much will help my DD deal with some of her own feelings of guilt - the wondering if she should have "seen" something was wrong weeks ago.. There's no way she could have "seen" this coming.. Unfortuantely ARDS doesn't work that way.. :(

Thanks for keeping my DD in your prayers.. She continues to need them while she grapples with this awful loss..
 
Originally posted by Dizkneenurse
Laurie is right, only people who are already debilitated can develope ARDS.
heidi
-----------------------------------

When I first started reading the information on the site Laurie posted, that's what I thought too - until I went on to read the Memorial pages.. Some of those people were far from being severely ill, injured, or debilitated - and that's what I find so frightening.. :(

I'm really surprised that I never heard of this condition before - or maybe I did, but just didn't realize how very serious it is? :confused:
 
Originally posted by WebmasterAlex
The reason you don't hear more about it is because it isn't really a "disease".
-----------------------------
Sorry if I gave you the impression that I was stating this is a "disease".. Obviously people don't "catch" it - or "come down with it" - it's a condition that people are "stricken" with as a result of a long laundry list of other ailments, injuries, or medical comditions or complications - ranging from minor to major.. Unfortuantely the "something else" is often undetermined and therefore cannot be treated successfully - as was the case with my DD's friend - and even when the cause is determined, the fatality rate is still very, very high..

We'll never know 100% what caused her to be stricken with ARDS, but at least "some" answer as to why she had to die at such a young age is better than "none.." :(
 
Originally posted by C.Ann
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When I first started reading the information on the site Laurie posted, that's what I thought too - until I went on to read the Memorial pages.. Some of those people were far from being severely ill, injured, or debilitated - and that's what I find so frightening.. :(

I'm really surprised that I never heard of this condition before - or maybe I did, but just didn't realize how very serious it is? :confused:

Would you mind posting the site for the memorials? I am wondering if people perhaps glossed over (or didn't understand) how sick their loved one was...or perhaps someone had that "one-in-a-million" complication to what was expected to be a routine surgery. However, once again, I am so sorry this has happened to your dd's friend :( but remember, that there are LOTS of medical conditions that you have probably never heard of. Critically ill patients often develop failure of various organ systems, and it becomes a slippery slope that's difficult to stop. For example, if the kidneys fail (due to severe dehydration or whatever) it affects the blood's pH balance, which can injure the lungs, thus affecting the cardiovascular system, etc. If the body is stressed by rare complications (ie excessive bleeding or such) of a minor surgery, all sorts of other things can happen. The patient's condition can change by the minute. Once the patient has multi-system organ failure, it's very difficult to reverse it all. It's a very sad thing. I suppose it really gets back to what you were trying to say in your original post about obesity - it's not just a cosmetic thing...it can kill you :( :( I feel it's very likely that the severe obesity of your dd's friend not only made her condition hard to diagnose and treat, but contributed to it in the first place. Truly a tragedy :(

Laurie
ps - I decided to search myself and found this site: http://www.ards.org/memorials/indexold.html but all of the people here did have underlying serious problems. They had pneumonia, cancer, major trauma... ARDS is a complication to severe illness or trauma...or an extremely rare complication of surgery in an otherwise healthy person. I just don't want people out there to worry lots about this. Compare the incidence of 1.5-71 patients with ARDS per 100,000 people to the statistic of 1 out of every 60 children born today will die in a car accident....I can tell you which scares me more. ARDS is a horrible complication just like kidney failure, heart failure, liver failure, etc, that results from serious medical problems.

Please know that I am in no way trying to minimize the grief you must feel over the loss of your dd's friend and the pain your dd will suffer as she misses her friend. She died much too young :( I am so sorry :(
 
:wave: Hi Laurie!

Thanks so much for explaining a bit more about this horrible condition that took my DD's friend's life.. Any and all information that answers more of her questions is greatly appreciated..

I think one of the reasons that I viewed the information I found in a different light than you do is because you're a medical professional and I'm not.. We have had so much illness in our family over the years - people who required surgery for various reasons - traumatic injuries from various incidents - etc. - that pnuemonia, broken ribs, strep, and things of that nature just aren't classified as "serious" in my mind.. I think about all the times I have had pnuemonia - all the times my DD has been hospitalized with infections that required numerous IV antibiotics to bring them under control - and it scares the wits out of me to think that it could have progressed to ARDS.. :(

The one thing I still don't understand though, is in the case of my DD's friend, she walked into the hospital on her own, laughing and joking - under the assumption that she had some minor problem such as bronchitis or a bad flu and she never came back out again.. ARDS was never mentioned until after her death - when the autopsy was done - so am I correct in assuming that something happened just prior to her death (let's say 24 to 48 hours) that caused the ARDS? My DD is still beating herself up - thinking she should have noticed something sooner (prior to hospitalization) - but if ARDS was never a consideration until after death, then there is nothing she could have done - right? Also, the multiple organ failure was listed on the autopsy as secondary to the ARDS, so I assume that means the ARDS caused the multiple organ failure - correct?

Any clarification you can provide is greatly appreciated because I need to find a way to convince my DD there was nothing she could have done to prevent this awful tragedy.. Guilt can do terrible things to a person and I'm really concerned for her well being..:(
 
I hope I can help you understand it a little better. I will certainly try. Normally I would suggest you talk to the doctor for these answers, but obviously that's not possible (and I won't go into how wrong that is, since we both already know :( )

Think of when you've had surgery. The doctor and anesthesiologist should have explained to you that there are possible complications to the procedure. Most of them are quite rare, and normally the benefits of a surgery far outweigh the potential risks. Most people do very well. A very rare few will be the unlucky ones who suffer the serious complications. Think of it as winning the lottery only it's a prize you want no part of. What I mean is, lots and lots (and lots) of people buy lottery tickets. Only a few win money. Lots and lots and lots (hundreds of thousands) of people have pneumonia - only a few develop ARDS, and usually there are other risks, such as the patient is very young or very old, or has a chronic illness. There do not have to be underlying problems, but it's very rare for there not to be. Does that make sense? It is possible for an otherwise healthy person to get pneumonia, get sicker and sicker, require ventilatory support, and develop ARDS. It's incredibly unlikely however. The vast majority of people with pneumonia are successfully treated and recover fully. Only a small percentage even require ICU care. Even then, most don't develop ARDS. It's something that happens when the body is very stressed and just can't cope with it well. ARDS is a type of respiratory failure. It's a horrible complication that no one is really sure why happens. Obviously I have no idea why it happened to your dd's friend, but it's likely that no one else does either. It's just a very sad thing. What I CAN tell you for sure, is that there is NO WAY your dd could have known. Whatever made her friend sick in the first place is what contributed to her going into respiratory failure and developing ARDS. Doctors can't even tell when or to whom it will happen. Everyone can do everything right and it can still happen. I can't do anything to help your dd's grief over the loss of her dear friend, but I hope I can remove any idea of guilt - there is nothing she could have done. Some patients just "decompensate" and no one can tell which ones they're going to be, until it happens, and then we do the best we can to stablilze them, but sometimes it just isn't possible. Another person with the exact problem that your dd's friend had might recover. It's impossible to tell why she suffered the tragic complications that she did. Everyone's an individual and reacts to things differently.

Sorry this is long, I just wanted to try to explain it a bit better...that no one could have forseen this complication, it is something that happened to her after she was in ICU, and your dd did everything she could to help her friend. And yes, ARDS can cause the other organ systems to fail. They are all intricately related. If the lungs fail, it affects the kidneys, the heart is affected as blood going to the lungs is congested in the right side of the heart, etc. When more than 3 organ systems fail, recovery is almost impossible. For example, a patient with kidney failure can be put on dialysis and stabilized, but if the heart and liver also fail, it becomes a much more complicated issue. :(

I have to go now, but I wanted to reassure you of two things - Frist- all those times you or your family were sick it is incredibly unlikely that you would have developed ARDS. It's just as possible that your kidneys could have failed or that you could have suffered a rare allergic reaction to a medication. Worry about things you have control over -Wear your seatbelt, don't smoke, eat healthy, etc. You can't do anything to prevent a rare complication. Which brings me to my second thing, and I said it already, but I will say it again there is NOTHING your dd or anyone could have done to know things would progress so quickly and so critically. Help your dd to remember the happy times with her friend. Maybe she can make a donation in her name to a charity or other thing that would bring her comfort. I can't imagine how stressful it was for her togo through not only the illness and death of her friend, but also the other problems with the family that you shared. It would be worth looking into grief counseling, either through your church/temple/place of worship, or through the hospital. Where I work, there are grief conuseling services for parents, siblings and children who have experienced a tragic loss. Grief is a normal process but it still hurts, and there's nothing wrong with getting help to go through it. Sometimes just talking to others who've been though the smae thing is helpful. No one else can really understand what it feels like. I will continue to keep your dd in my prayers.

Please feel free to PM me if I can try to explain it better or you have more questions.

Laurie
 
I somehow missed this thread earlier.

Laurie, thank you for all your information. I'll go back and read it again. It helps.

C.Ann, I don't have a clue what to say to ease your worries. Truly, it is scary. The only thing I can think of, is that with all the problems and surgeries your family and friends have had, this is the first time something like this has happened.
Hang in there. :hug: :hug:
 

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