Autism - what do you think?

[Liberty Belle]

There is also another theory out there that too-frequent ultrasounds could be a contributing factor to the increase in autism. Apparently, there are higher rates of autims in developed countries where ultrasound is routine in pregnancy. Kind of scary.

That is scary. Is there any scientific basis to it? I had tons of ultrasounds with my youngest because my pregnancy started out as a twin pregnancy and we lost his twin. Plus I had...can't remember the name, darnit...excessive amniotic fluid for a long time.

He's fine now (a bit goofy, but very social and talks non-stop).

 

[JerseyJanice]

I honestly don't think vaccines have anything to due with the autism epidemic we are facing.

Asperger's Syndrome was first identified in the mid-1940's by a researcher whose surname was Asperger (hence the name). However, it wasn't given a DSM code (i.e., official diagnosis) until something like 1992 or 1994. (I'm home today and don't have this info at my fingertips like I would if I were at work.) So there was a surge in the number of autism diagnoses around that time.

Meanwhile (like I said in my first post), the mercury-derived preservative in vaccines was being blamed for an increase in the occurrence of autism. That preservative was removed from common childhood vaccines in 1994 (that date I'm sure of).

So when you look at the stats, you see a spike in diagnoses in the early to mid 1990's because of the inclusion of Asperger's. However, for children born and vaccinated after 1994, the rate of diagnoses would have decreased if Thimersol were one of the causes of autism. And in any event, the rate should have at least remained constant after the inclusion of Asperger's.

However, the rates are climbing steadily. In NJ, we're up to 1 in 96 children. Nationally, the rate was at 1 in 166 only last year. Now it's up to 1 in 150. What will it be next year?

These are incredibly significant statistics, people, especially if the number of children being vaccinated has decreased due to the myth of vaccinations being a cause for autism. (I don't have any stats on vaccination rates so I don't know that for a fact.)

Will the numbers be higher next year? It's a genuine and frightening possibility.

On my small street, I know of two boys who are non-verbal due to severe cases of autism. And there's another boy with Asperger's. That's three kids in a small geograph zone. I can't look at any of this and believe that more kids are simply being classified as autistic.

BTW, have you folks heard about T.G.I.F.'s Night of Dining Out for Autistic Families? It's either on the 18th or 19th of this month. I encourage all of you who have autistic loved ones to participate. If nothing else, you'll see that you are far from being alone.

 

[JerseyJanice]

In lots of systems, it's the school psychologist.......and I'd be there are a fair amount of pyschiatrists who aren't really qualified as well....


Actually, I don't see anybody with a psychiatrist title anywhere on school staff in our local districts.....

Actually, this isn't correct.

The only person qualified to make a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD is a pediatric neurologist. A school's child study team (which would usually include a psychologist) should direct a parent to see one (or their pediatrician who would refer the child to a neurologist). If a family can't afford to see such a specialist, arrangements can be made by the school district.

But in no cases would a teacher be making any kind of "diagnoses" of their students. It isn't their place, frankly.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Actually, this isn't correct.

The only person qualified to make a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD is a pediatric neurologist. A school's child study team (which would usually include a psychologist) should direct a parent to see one (or their pediatrician who would refer the child to a neurologist). If a family can't afford to see such a specialist, arrangements can be made by the school district.

But in no cases would a teacher be making any kind of "diagnoses" of their students. It isn't their place, frankly.

When we thought our oldest might have ADD, we were sent, by his pediatrician, to the mental health clinic and a man with a masters in social work saw and evaluated him. If he would have diagnosed him with it (all tests given came back normal, though the Conner's was close to borderline) he said our pediatrician would prescribe him medication. There was not going to be a neurologist, psychiatrist, or even a psychologist involved. This was a few years ago and I didn't question it, but I would now.

 

[auntpolly]

I think that we tend to think of things too much in black and white.

Instead of thinking in terms of "always" and "never" and "couldn't" and "must", we need to all start thinking, and requiring our doctors and leaders to think "outside the box" (for lack of a less trite term) and start examining any possibility.

I believe that part of the reason that this is such a puzzle is that it may be a combination of so many different factors that didn't exist 50 years ago - not only one thing. And any thing we can to simplify our lives can only improve it.

Medications and immunizations - what could it hurt to examine them and make sure we need them before blindly taking them? I don't see the point of saying, "They do no harm" and then just rolling up my sleeve for everything my doctor wheels out on a cart. I for one try very hard to never take any medication unless it is absolutely necessary.

Let's not do 5 ultrasounds just for the heck of it. Let's consider that maybe if that tree frog is extinct because of the envirnment something might be harming our children as well. Let's try to live as toxin free as we possibly can.

I don't see the upside in poo pooing anything at this point - or banning anything either one. But how could taking a closer look at what we are putting into our bodies have a bad side?

 

[jodifla]

Actually, this isn't correct.

The only person qualified to make a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD is a pediatric neurologist. A school's child study team (which would usually include a psychologist) should direct a parent to see one (or their pediatrician who would refer the child to a neurologist). If a family can't afford to see such a specialist, arrangements can be made by the school district.

But in no cases would a teacher be making any kind of "diagnoses" of their students. It isn't their place, frankly.

It's not their place, but it doesn't stop them from doing it. I've got firsthand experience with it, so don't tell me it doesn't happen. It may not be the correct way of doing things, but it's happening all over the country.

It is ROUTINE for school committees made up of a social worker, a psychologist and a teacher to fill out a bunch of checklists and declare your child autistic.

THAT'S a root cause for the autism "epidemic."

 

[meandtheguys2]

Jodi, the last time this came up you (I think) suggested Quirky Kids...good book! Thanks!

For those of you involved in research is there any sort of cluster situation for autism like there is for cancers?

 

[jodifla]

When we thought our oldest might have ADD, we were sent, by his pediatrician, to the mental health clinic and a man with a masters in social work saw and evaluated him. If he would have diagnosed him with it (all tests given came back normal, though the Conner's was close to borderline) he said our pediatrician would prescribe him medication. There was not going to be a neurologist, psychiatrist, or even a psychologist involved. This was a few years ago and I didn't question it, but I would now.

Yep. Happens all the time.

I would go over the "qualifications" of anyone diagnosing my kid with a fine tooth comb.

I just went over our school district's personnel list again...no psychiatrists on the list.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Yep. Happens all the time.

I would go over the "qualifications" of anyone diagnosing my kid with a fine tooth comb.

I just went over our school district's personnel list again...no psychiatrists on the list.

I don't think the psychiatrists used in our school system are actually employed by the school system, but I could be wrong.

 

[jodifla]

Jodi, the last time this came up you (I think) suggested Quirky Kids...good book! Thanks!

For those of you involved in research is there any sort of cluster situation for autism like there is for cancers?

Glad you liked it. I just finished "Like Sound Through Water" which reminds me SO much of our situation. It's about Auditory Processing Disorders.

There'e definitely a cluster autism effect in certain parts of the country...is that what you mean? Like others have mentioned, Silicon Valley has a very high rate.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Glad you liked it. I just finished "Like Sound Through Water" which reminds me SO much of our situation. It's about Auditory Processing Disorders.

There'e definitely a cluster autism effect in certain parts of the country...is that what you mean? Like others have mentioned, Silicon Valley has a very high rate.

Well, duh...that makes sense! Sometimes I miss the obvious. Our county has one of the highest pollution levels in the country and they've only just admitted that there is a cancer cluster. (We've believed it for years.) I think that the latest autism numbers are significantly above average, also. But was also have a large number of engineers between industry and higher ed. programs.

Will look for "Like Sound Through Water." My sons were all late talkers. And I have a little guy in my SS class that is a great concern.

 

[Chicago526]

There is also another theory out there that too-frequent ultrasounds could be a contributing factor to the increase in autism. Apparently, there are higher rates of autims in developed countries where ultrasound is routine in pregnancy. Kind of scary.

I'd take this theory with a grain of salt. Countries with a high rate of ultra sound are likely developed countries, and developed countries will have a higher level of Autisim diagnoses just because a higher level of the population has access to medical profesionals. In short, more people in developed countries have ultra sounds while pregnant, and also can and do take their kids to doctors when they think something is wrong. Poor and under-developed countries just don't have the resources for a large number of children to see a doctor because they're talking late. They save trips to the doctor for life threatening illnesses, if they can see a doctor at all!

 

[Deb in IA]

The only person qualified to make a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD is a pediatric neurologist.

But in no cases would a teacher be making any kind of "diagnoses" of their students. It isn't their place, frankly.

While I agree with the second part, I do have to say that others can (and do) diagnose ADHD and ADD, including developmental - behavioral pediatricians (a board-certified subspecialty) and child psychiatrists.

 

[snowball22]

Just an FYI. Mercury has not been removed from all vaccines. The CDC claims that mercury has been removed from the basic children's vaccines but not all vaccines. Some vaccines are still produced with it. Even if mercury is not the cluprit, a vaccine can still be the catalyst to activate auto immune diseases like autism. If you look at the principal of a vaccine and what it is suppose to do, your immune system can accidently be set into a permanant "on" position or malfuntion in other ways prompting auto immune diseases to show up.

 

[VirtuallyMe]

Wow- very interesting thread...

My background...
I'm the mom of an 18yo Aspie who was diagnosed 10 years ago. We first saw symptoms in the newborn nursery in the hospital when he picked his head and chest up off the warming bed he was on- of course no one thought autism then- but he sure did scare the heck out of those nurses. I just considered him a rapid developer- (note- not delayed)- he walked by 7 months and really never crawled and could pick up a newspaper and read it by the time he was three. Of course he was also kicked out of 4 daycares before starting school, suspended from kindergarten 6 times, and countless other issues growing up- by the time he was 6-7 he also developed trichotillomania, by the time he was 10 he attempted suicide (because he was so different) and aspired to be a priest because "that way I won't have kids like me".

He saw his first professional in the psychiatric world at 2 years old- a LCSW (masters in social work) who diagnosed him with severe separation anxiety- his pediatrician at the time said he was "just different and the world would have to adjust to him"- His next contact was with another LCSW who he saw through a different pediatrician (we moved) who said possibly ADD/ADHD- then my mother heard of a psychiatrist- who seemed to specialize in kids with behavior disorders- so we went to him when ds was 5- he had him see a phd speech language pathologist- who diagnosed auditory sensory disorder, a pediatric neurologist who did an EEG and actually said "mildly autistic" (something I thought was silly- as an RN all I new of autism was the severe, profound and non-communicative types), and his final dianosis based on the other two- was that he was "ADD but different" He of course added oppositional defiant, separation anxiety, and mild obsessive compulsive disorder but could never really explain the "but different part of his diagnosis

My son went to private school- and had some great, understanding teachers- and a wonderful assistant principal who called me to come in early one day when he was in second grade. She had a child that would be enrolling the next year who has Aspergers- and the parents had brought in several articles about the disorder to her- she had me come in and read them- I cried the first time I read these- because I finally found out what the "but different" meant- these articles could have all been written about my son. So I had a diagnosis that I knew was correct- but now I needed to see if I could find a doctor who saw the same thing... (yes I doctor shopped)

But unlike most parents- I am a psychiatric nurse- and I worked with five psychiatrists and several psychologists- so I started asking them what they knew about Aspergers- out of the 5 (who all heard of it) only one- the youngest and newest doctor- was familiar with it enough to really have a discussion about it. This btw was after it got a DSM diagnosis. But the one who did understand- had my son evaluated by a psychologist who did tons of psych tests- then said "I know he is on the pdd spectrum (autistic spectrum) but I'm not sure about aspergers" So he sent us to see a colleague in another state- who came up with the final determination and diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome...

The diagnosis was a weight off my shoulder- because we could now explain some of his behaviors and quirks- but the hardest part of it all was that he often looked and acted completely normal- so people (teachers/coaches/denleaders) expected him to control his behaviors all the time- There are no drugs for Autism or Asperger's syndrome- the symptoms can sometimes be managed with medication but many- like my son- no medication worked- he maxed out most doses of medications and had little or no effect. In 5th grade he was at his worst- he had pulled all his hair out, attempted suicide at school, and we were asked by the new principal if we had ever considered home schooling. We tried him in a small private school for boys with ADD/ADHD/Autistic spectrum disorders- he had to move across the state and live with my inlaws to attend this school- which was great in theory but not in practice- no neurotypical kids to base appropriate behaviors on- meant all the boys were learning "bad" behaviors from each other- so we took him home and got to experience our first IEP- and a 2 month wait while the school board decided where to place him- they wanted us to stick with his assigned school (which is a great school btw) and we wanted him in the school with the autism classes (not to attend those classes- but because the teachers in the main stream classes would have the teachers in the autistic classrooms as a resource)... the school board won and he went to the school that didn't want him and we didn't want him to go- for all of 6 weeks... Middle school he had a 1:1 aide for 6th and part of 7th grade- through this time- we tried a wide variety of medications, glutton free diets, and countless vitamin/mineral supplements- my mom even took him to a naturopathic doctor who attempted to realign his chi with crystals... By middle of 7th grade I found out that when not watched he no longer took any of his medications/supplements and cheated on his glutton free diet- so we stopped it all- By 8th grade he says he just decided that being different was ok and many of his outbursts ceased. He started high school in special ed- but was removed before his Junior year- He is now in college- and if I could get him to get off the computer he'd being doing well lol

Ok- now my view on theories...

From the story- I do not feel immunizations had anything to do with MY SON's case of autism... (note- my son's case) There was trauma at birth and there is also genetic links on both sides of the family. My mom swears that her father had Asperger's and he more than likely did and my father-in-law's brother also had lots of the same "quirks". I have nephews on both sides of the family who also have it but neither of their mother's will have them diagnosed- they didn't have the severe behavior symptoms but definitely have them- one of the boys says that my son is "the only person in the world who can understand him" DH and I also probably both have some characteristics but neither of us are close to actually having it- so I would say genetics definitely plays a strong roll- and from my contact with other families with autism- it seems to play more of a role in the high functioning autisms then it does in the more severe, profound autism- but I still think it is a factor in all cases

Do immunizations cause it? My opinion- is that in and of themselves no it doesn't- but could getting multiple immunizations at one time trigger someone with a "tendency to autism"? THat is left to be decided. My son is the oldest of 4- all of my children have been immunized- only the second on the "reccommended schedule" the others- I have had spread out where they get only one shot at a time- but still get them all by the time they start school.

What other factors? If we just look around we can identify many things that have come into existence and common use over the years that coincide with the increasing diagnosis...
-Sugar substitutes- consumed by the mom's during pregnancy and by the kids themselves
-antibacterial sprays
-different virus' and bacteria that are now immune to most antibiotics
-lead, mercury and other enviromental poisons- again either by the parents or by the kids after birth- I do know of several parents of autistic children who went from severe to moderate autism (non-verbal to verbal/incontinent to continent) with treatment of elevated lead and mercury levels
-parents (moms and dads) waiting until older to have children (not a factor in all- I was 20 when I gave birth and my husband was 19)
-allergies to foods and enviromental things
-auto-immune/inflamation processes

And I'm sure there are countless other things that could also come into play- but the thing to remember is- we will NEVER find ONE cause of ALL autism- Autism is a spectrum disorder- and each case is different from another- it may be that there are several causes for certain types of autism and even those causes wouldn't affect everyone the same- which would also explain why some get it and other's don't who are exposed to the same things...

I also feel that diagnosis and awareness has improved- which may account for a small increase in the numbers- but not to the extent that it has risen.

I also feel some are misdiagnosed- like often happens with any "behavior" type disorder- but that also would not account for the abrupt rise in the incidence of autism.

I'm glad Oprah did her show- I did not watch it- I am a little upset that she didn't show a broader spectrum picture of autism- but at least she is discussing it and getting it out there in the homes of many- and getting the attention it deserves.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Wow- very interesting thread...

My background...
I'm the mom of an 18yo Aspie who was diagnosed 10 years ago. We first saw symptoms in the newborn nursery in the hospital when he picked his head and chest up off the warming bed he was on- of course no one thought autism then- but he sure did scare the heck out of those nurses. I just considered him a rapid developer- (note- not delayed)- he walked by 7 months and really never crawled and could pick up a newspaper and read it by the time he was three. Of course he was also kicked out of 4 daycares before starting school, suspended from kindergarten 6 times, and countless other issues growing up- by the time he was 6-7 he also developed trichotillomania, by the time he was 10 he attempted suicide (because he was so different) and aspired to be a priest because "that way I won't have kids like me".

He saw his first professional in the psychiatric world at 2 years old- a LCSW (masters in social work) who diagnosed him with severe separation anxiety- his pediatrician at the time said he was "just different and the world would have to adjust to him"- His next contact was with another LCSW who he saw through a different pediatrician (we moved) who said possibly ADD/ADHD- then my mother heard of a psychiatrist- who seemed to specialize in kids with behavior disorders- so we went to him when ds was 5- he had him see a phd speech language pathologist- who diagnosed auditory sensory disorder, a pediatric neurologist who did an EEG and actually said "mildly autistic" (something I thought was silly- as an RN all I new of autism was the severe, profound and non-communicative types), and his final dianosis based on the other two- was that he was "ADD but different" He of course added oppositional defiant, separation anxiety, and mild obsessive compulsive disorder but could never really explain the "but different part of his diagnosis

My son went to private school- and had some great, understanding teachers- and a wonderful assistant principal who called me to come in early one day when he was in second grade. She had a child that would be enrolling the next year who has Aspergers- and the parents had brought in several articles about the disorder to her- she had me come in and read them- I cried the first time I read these- because I finally found out what the "but different" meant- these articles could have all been written about my son. So I had a diagnosis that I knew was correct- but now I needed to see if I could find a doctor who saw the same thing... (yes I doctor shopped)

But unlike most parents- I am a psychiatric nurse- and I worked with five psychiatrists and several psychologists- so I started asking them what they knew about Aspergers- out of the 5 (who all heard of it) only one- the youngest and newest doctor- was familiar with it enough to really have a discussion about it. This btw was after it got a DSM diagnosis. But the one who did understand- had my son evaluated by a psychologist who did tons of psych tests- then said "I know he is on the pdd spectrum (autistic spectrum) but I'm not sure about aspergers" So he sent us to see a colleague in another state- who came up with the final determination and diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome...

I bet it's such a relief now that your son is in college and doing well. It was a relief for me just reading it. You all have certainly been through enough.

 

[JerseyJanice]

It is ROUTINE for school committees made up of a social worker, a psychologist and a teacher to fill out a bunch of checklists and declare your child autistic.

THAT'S a root cause for the autism "epidemic."

Even if you had a way to prove such a claim, the fact of the matter is that the majority of new autism diagnoses are made in preschool children who haven't even entered the public school system.

The current approach in treating autism is to identify patients as young as possible and get them into programs that help to modify their behaviors before said behaviors become ingrained.

Deb, you are correct, of course. It isn't just pediatric neurologists who make ADD/ADHD diagnoses. I misspoke and meant to say that teachers and school social workers and psychologists cannot. ADD and autism must diagnosed by a physician.

 

[belle&beast]

I didn't read all the posts, so forgive me if this has been stated.

I am a speech pathologist and I have worked in early intervention and now work with preschoolers. I also have a cousin with autism and I think another of my cousin's children lies somewhere on the spectrum.

Many pediatricians do not consider kids to have language delays until they are over 2 years old and tell parents they will "grow out of it" or be a "late talker." This could possiby be the case, but in my experience many children are diagnosed with autism after 2 years because their language is so severly delayed and the doctor finally refers them for an evaluation. Early intervention is crucial! Children learn more in the first 3 years of life than at any other time- they establish language and social communication thich is lacking in autism. I wish more pediatricians were proactive in referring for speech and language evaluations rather than having a "wait it out" approach.

I also think (just my opinion) that the reason immunizations are tied to autism is because the immunizations are complete at 18 months to 2 years. This is just about the time doctors start to grow more concerned about language delays. I don't know- they could go together, but the timing is right for a correlation.

 

[jodifla]

Even if you had a way to prove such a claim, the fact of the matter is that the majority of new autism diagnoses are made in preschool children who haven't even entered the public school system.

The current approach in treating autism is to identify patients as young as possible and get them into programs that help to modify their behaviors before said behaviors become ingrained.

Deb, you are correct, of course. It isn't just pediatric neurologists who make ADD/ADHD diagnoses. I misspoke and meant to say that teachers and school social workers and psychologists cannot. ADD and autism must diagnosed by a physician.

Uh, where do you get your facts from? The EI preschool system IS RUN BY THE SCHOOL SYSTEM!

And many school systems have criteria of their own for declaring someone "austistic." Even if the child has never seen a doctor. They'll tell the parents, "Oh, this is for educational purposes only."

Happens time and time and time again.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Uh, where do you get your facts from? The EI preschool system IS RUN BY THE SCHOOL SYSTEM!

And many school systems have criteria of their own for declaring someone "austistic." Even if the child has never seen a doctor. They'll tell the parents, "Oh, this is for educational purposes only."

Happens time and time and time again.

What?! How can a school or teacher declare a kid autistic? Sorry, but I just don't buy that. Teachers here can't even suggest a kid be tested for anything (add, adhd, autism, LDs, etc). The most teachers can say is that maybe the child should see his doctor.