Attention Potential Renters - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE

[WebmasterDoc]

... ask for and review references for anyone you consider working with on a rental. Ask for home address and home telephone number. Ask for a written contract outlining all details of the rental. Review past posts on the DIS for the person you are working with so you can get an idea what type of person they may be. When possible, use a credit card for payment to provide some possible level of security.

There have been only a few instances where renters have found themselves without the reservation they paid for and in all cases, some (if not all) of the above advise was ignored.

We have recently become aware of another such issue - where a renter has sent payment and is apparently without a reservation. Again, it appears that the above suggestions were not followed.

Please use due diligence before entering into any agreement and certainly before sending any payment.

For a first hand report of some of the issues involved, please review this thread from last fall.

Buyer Beware.

 

[Granny]

Very sound advice, Doc.

In addition, there is a lot of good information in this DVC Point Rental Primer thread that diznyfanatic posted in the aftermath of the incident Doc linked to.

Renting points requires trust on both sides of the agreement, but even with trust there is a need for each party to do some due diligence and common sense checking.

 

[Chuck S]

Good info.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Any updates on the situation?

 

[CarolA]

Am I the only one that wonders why the DIS allows this? Sounds like they get drug into this mess without ANY compensation. Since at least SOME renters are running a business over there, shouldn't there at least be a "listing fee". I am sure that Owner's Locker, TSS and others PAY to advertise, why should I be any different?

 

[CarolMN]

Am I the only one that wonders why the DIS allows this? Sounds like they get drug into this mess without ANY compensation. Since at least SOME renters are running a business over there, shouldn't there at least be a "listing fee". I am sure that Owner's Locker, TSS and others PAY to advertise, why should I be any different?

Respectfully, how would anyone on the DIS know ahead of time if a poster is an honest person or one intent on defrauding someone? Sometimes it may seem that the mods have superpowers, but we don't - even the Webmasters don't have those kind of superpowers.

Short of eliminating the Rent/Trade Board entirely, I see no way for the DIS to prevent a dishonest person from defrauding an honest one. The honest people need to do some homework and use some common sense before sending off their money to a stranger. (I am not familar with any of the details of the recent cases mentioned by Doc, nor do I want or need to know. I am speaking generally).

Even if the DIS wanted to get into the business of charging a "listing fee", how would that help to prevent fraud?

Others may disagree, but I think those who rent - on both sides of the transaction, need to take the time to find out who they are dealing with before money changes hands.

It's not the job of the DIS to protect people from themselves!

 

[CarolA]

I don't expect the mods to deal with this. However, I wonder why the DIS even puts up with the mess it creates.

And if they are willing to put up with the mess, then WHY shouldn't they charge a "listing" fee. This has become a business. Other websites are referring folks to the Dis boards for rent/trade which in turn drives up the cost of bandwidth needed to run these boards. Charging a minimal feel for "advertising" seems reasonable to me. Your local paper charges, why not the DIS??? It wouldn't prevent fraud and it's probably two issues. However, it might reduce fraud. If there was a fee, people looking for a easy buck might be driven off....Who knows, but an honest person probably would not object to paying for the "listing"?

 

[WebmasterDoc]

I wonder why the DIS even puts up with the mess it creates.

"Puts up with the mess it creates"???? What an arrogant suggestion. Why not just address those who CHOOSE to ignore suggested policy and invite problem transactions instead of the site that clearly just provides the opportunity?

The DIS is happy to provide the DVC Rent/Trade Board as a free service for DVC members. The VAST majority of the rentals made thru the DIS occur without any problem and involve satisfied parties on both sides of the transaction. To suggest the Rent/Trade Board is anything other than a worthwhile service is very irresponsible and insulting to those involved. If you choose not to use the free service then why even bother to offer insults to those who do and to the DIS itself?

We just ask that those who use the free service use a little due diligence to protect themselves from those who seek to defraud others.

Once upon a time the DIS offered to provide the Rent/Trade Board as a service similar to eBay, where users would pay a fee to offer their rentals and feedback would be allowed. That concept was soundly rejected at the time and has not been revisited since. Over the past 8 years, the DIS has seen thousands of rental transactions completed with no problems at all. There have been fewer than 10 reported problems over that same timeframe - with 5 reports regarding the same person. In all of those situations, due diligence would have gone a long way towards preventing the problem long before it ever occurred. To suggest that the DIS "Puts up with the mess it creates" is indeed an irresponsible suggestion when the board itself has suggested policies to prevent the very problems that have been ignored and then reported as complaints.

At this time, the Rent/Trade Board is still offered as a free service to DVC members and to those seeking reservations. All we ask is that those using this free service exercise caution and use due diligence before entering into any rental discsussion or contract.

We are happy to provide the service without charge, we just ask that those who choose to utilize the service exercise caution and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read the suggested precautions before commiting any funds to a rental.

While most choose to offer exemplary service, a few have chosen to violate both the spirit of the offer and the legal responsibiltiy that goes with any of these transactions.

Buyer Beware!!

 

[DMKEDM]

JUst jumping in with further words of praise for the Dis and Webmaster Doc...I'm the OP of the thread to which Doc referred everyone, and I want to make it very, very clear that the Dis was well beyond merely wonderful during my sad saga...and had I followed Doc's advice in the beginning, I've no doubt I would not have been in that bad situation!

There are few services in this world that work as smoothly and in as "user-friendly" a manner as the Dis...I was and am grateful to Doc (and JimMIA) for their help, and to other Dis'ers who provided such generous cyber-emtional support during that trying time (which, let me add yet again, was due at least in large part to my own impulsiveness (stupdiity?)...

I think it's wonderful that the Dis is willing to provide the R/T board, and to be so supportive (within their very understandable limits) when something goes sour...thank you again!

Thank you, Doc, and thank you DisBoards!

 

[snappy]

I too want to thank the DIS for the R/T board.

We rented twice during 2005 with great results. We are renting again this summer from another DIS member who I have "met" on another thread on the CB.

As of last week we now own 165 points at BMW.

Happy ending.

Thanks to the moderators.

 

[bababear_50]

Well I read half of the thread last night and half this morning,,
OMG,, I would have to say I'm now very hesitant to rent a reservation from anyone.
I kind of jumped the gun and went ahead and booked a flight for next year(March 2008)just an excellent fare,,but I'm still waiting on funds from another sale before I purchase DVC ,,My thoughts had been if I was too late to book using my points that I'd rent and bank any points .Now I think I'll just stay at a mod or value.It's sad that a few can ruin things for so many.
Good wishes are being sent to those of you who do rent and thanks for the great information.

 

[Mule2007]

Just to flip the coin a little -- how many 1000's of rental agreements were successfully negotiated on the DIS site?

If we focus on the .01% all the time -- you'll end up with someone recommending the Fed's need to regulate.

I think the R/T board serves a necessary outlet -- the old "buyer beware" still applies -- do your homework.

Mule

 

[crisi]

Doc, while its your board and your decision, I too, wonder why you continue to do this without compensation. It takes share away from the core business of Dreams Unlimited (though it arguably helps create a market for The Timeshare Store). It creates potential liability if you are named as a party in a lawsuit for fraud. It sets The DIS up as a potential target for Disney legal should they take further steps to discourage renting - this is the biggest source of rental points out there. The benefit is that you are enabling a bunch of people to take affordable Disney vacations and helping DVC owners out by assisting them in getting rid of unwanted points. But its a goodness of your heart situation, and I really hope you don't get burned by being nice. Obviously, you currently don't feel that it creates "a mess" - but I think that the potential is there.

I'm glad its offered - I may need a few extra points at some time and I'd rather find them here in this community from one of our known and reliable purveyors of points. And I might need to get rid of mine.

(I am not an attorney, this is not legal advice).

 

[rinkwide]

...I too, wonder why you continue to do this without compensation...

Actually, many appreciative users like myself do pay for the service (indirectly).

 

[melanieewr]

I too am grateful for this service. It has been a really long time since I had used the R/T board, until recently when I had a ressie that I am not able to use because of illness. What is so nice is that I have continued to rent points, but it is the same people that I have dealt with from the time I got my first contract!

That said, Doc's advice to renter's should be heeded. As a rentee, I have only had one problem with a renter and that cost me money as I had to discount my points. I was trying to work with the renter and let it drag out until I was within my 30 day cancellation window. But the risk is much greater to the renter.

Even though I rarely post, this board was the reason I bought into DVC and for that I am truly appreciative. I have actually told my guide that this site is the reason for DVC's tremendous popularity.

The R/T board works and I hope it remains the same for the benefit of both renters and rentees.

 

[dianeschlicht]

originally posted by WebmasterDoc

Once upon a time the DIS offered to provide the Rent/Trade Board as a service similar to eBay, where users would pay a fee to offer their rentals and feedback would be allowed. That concept was soundly rejected at the time and has not been revisited since. Over the past 8 years, the DIS has seen thousands of rental transactions completed with no problems at all. There have been fewer than 10 reported problems over that same timeframe - with 5 reports regarding the same person.

Just a thought....was the ofending person who created 5 of the 10 problem transactions banned from the board? I can understand a first issue with someone, and even a second, but why were they able to remain on the board for 5? Of course, I don't know the particulars, and I probably don't want to know them, but I wondered how that could happen. I'm supposing that they could always sign up with a new user ID and it wouldn't be known until after the fact...

 

[WebmasterDoc]

...

I'm supposing that they could always sign up with a new user ID and it wouldn't be known until after the fact...

Bingo!

This is exactly the reason that those renting need to utilize every opportunity to protect themselves and the measures suggested are a good starting place.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I would think that the DISboard receiving any compensation resulting from listings on the Rent/Trade Board could possibly create some liability for them if things go south with a rental transaction. I understand completely why things are the way they are...

I also wanted to add that I'm another member that really appreciates the fact that there is a Rent/Trade Board and want to say "Thank you".

 

[Chuck S]

I don't know that charging would create a liability for the DIS, Ebay seems to not give any implied warranties, and they charge.

But I don't think it would, in any way, alleviate the problem of the rare "bad seed" on the R/T Board.

Do diligence and following Doc's suggestions are the best means of protection.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I don't know that charging would create a liability for the DIS, Ebay seems to not give any implied warranties, and they charge.

Yes, but I bet they have a lot more legal issues than the DIS ( along with the staffing and legal fees to prove it!). Why even go down that road if you don't have to?

During my length of time on DISboards I have always been amazed at the sense of community, and the trust that ensues. It truly saddens me to think there are people out there that search for ways to exploit these situations. Thankfully there are still a lot more good...than bad!!!