Attendance at Universal declines becasue of WDW's recent marketing

[Sylvester McBean]

Wow, maybe we should just bulldoze WDW. Many of you act like this would be a better option then having things continue the way they are. I think that it is very amusing that a lot of the people that constantly bash WDW are the same people that are at the park every weekend. If you prefer US, great you’re entitled to your opinion. If you have some things you don’t like about Disney, then you’re also entitled to that opionoin. But people that do nothing but criticize the park and then spend every opportunity visiting it, are hypocrites in my opinion.

well then, I'm a hypocrite.

 

[All Aboard]

I simply disagree with you (and many others on this board) who essentially tell all of those who disagree with them that they are wrong.

Even if this statement were entirely true, I can't find a piece of text in this thread that is a more glaring example of your accusal than this:

It may be different but it is no less magical. Except to those who can't accept change of any kind.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't read this as just setting forth your own opinion. I read it as "it's just as great, and if you don't see that, then there's something wrong with you."

 

[peter11435]

Peter, make me believe that the magic hasn't changed since 71.... give me some examples, honestly I would LOVE to believe it but I just can't with the evidence I have been shown (in this post and on MANY others)

Nowhere in this particular thread have AV or Yoho provided any tangible evidence that the magic has deteriorated. All they have done in this thread thus far is attack me and my opinions simply because they are not in line with theirs.

 

[peter11435]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't read this as just setting forth your own opinion. I read it as "it's just as great, and if you don't see that, then there's something wrong with you."

Maybe I went a little far with that statement. Obviously it is entirely possible for someone to go to WDW and have the opinion that the magic has deteriorated and have nothing "wrong" with you.

The problem I see is that there are people on these boards that have the mentality that anything the WDC does today is bad. They believe that any decisions made, attraction built, or park opened is inherently bad simply because it is the work of current Disney/Eisner. That is simply not true. I find that many refuse to even give these things a fair chance because the pre judge them.

 

[Barbers2005]

Like I said before I don’t think there is any way to prove that the “Magic” has or has not diminished since the 1970’s. All I can say is my daughter is just as excited to visit WDW as I was when I was her age. And she is just as excited to ride “Winnie the Pooh” as she is to ride “Dumbo”. On a whole I don’t think the rides are any worse today as they were in the 1970’s and a lot of the same themeing that was around back then is still there today. Maybe I don’t go to WDW enough to see all of the negative things I have seen posted.

 

[DancingBear]

First, Peter, I don't see anyone here who thinks that all change is bad.

It is true that some are reluctant to give any credit to Mr. Eisner, but at least they are willing to discuss the reasons why.

In the end, it's futile to argue about each other's lists of what attractions are good and bad. And arguing about the existence or lack of "magic" approaches total silliness.

To me, it's far more interesting to explore (1) what made Disneyland and Walt Disney World something extraordinary, (2) how Disney took its eye off the ball, and (3) what recent improvements have we seen, and what else does Mr. Iger need to do to reach extraordinary heights again.

It seems like we lose you at item (2). Certainly there have been some good things created over the last 10 years (or whatever Eisnerian sub-period anyone wishes to examine); however, I'm thoroughly convinced that Eisner was taking many actions which over time were diminishing the greatness of the parks and resorts. Until the Ouimet regime, Disneyland was allowed to physically deteriorate, and its Tomorrowland essentially dismantled. Imagineering lost personnel, financing, scope of work, and influence. Feature animation, which feeds so much into the parks (including the actual Animation building at the Studios), was left to wither away. Merchandising became more aggressive, at the expense of the experience--see Main Street's shops before and after. Largely due to the extremely low unemployment in the Orlando area, hiring standards were lowered. At the same time, CM training was reduced. Elements of "good show" were lost, such as by opening Adventureland later, or closing Future World earlier. I'm sure A-V and YoHo could enhance this list.

So, in the minds of the Element, this is about more than the loss of Mickey Head Butter, or whether Mission:Space is enjoyable, or whether you can still have a great time at WDW (I know I still do). Heck, I've defended any number of changes, such as the closure of the CA Grill deck. It's about the larger issue of whether those folks at the Company who are now entrusted with the care and development of these places that we have an idiosyncratic affection for, "Get It."

It's not about whether Walt would have put Jack Sparrow figures into Pirates. Rather, it's about whether these things are being done with the same Philosophical goals as what (to our minds) made the Disney parks great in the first place--driven by story, excellence, and enhancing the guest experience.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

The problem I see is that there are people on these boards that have the mentality that anything the WDC does today is bad. They believe that any decisions made, attraction built, or park opened is inherently bad simply because it is the work of current Disney/Eisner. That is simply not true. I find that many refuse to even give these things a fair chance because the pre judge them.

I give every new addition at any of the parks a chance. the more the companies keep building, the better my weekends are. MS, Philharmagic, and EE are the only attractions or additions at WDW that have impressed me in the last few years. I love WDW, always will. but lately it seems the company is just going through the motions, content.

 

[peter11435]

I give every new addition at any of the parks a chance. the more the companies keep building, the better my weekends are. MS, Philharmagic, and EE are the only attractions or additions at WDW that have impressed me in the last few years. I love WDW, always will. but lately it seems the company is just going through the motions, content.

Thats great. I respect your opinion 100%.

But there are people on these boards who won't even admit that the attraction you mention are succesful let alone that they are impressive.

 

[Spectro is #1]

the problem is there is no operational definition of the word "magical" in this discussion

Read my last post.


I don't get why Toad was so great
They were cut outs for COL! Kids have no idea who toad was? Pooh makes money! Pooh won't cause an 11% drop in attendance.

US removed Kong? The movie came out in the 30s, 70s, and 20006. I miss Kong. Isn't that the same thing? The Mummy????? It is a cool ride but will people remember that movie 10 or 20 years later?

My point is I don't think US or Disney rips down an attraction if people use it or see it. They match total attendance to daily riders and determine the attractions draw. Poor performs that can't justify their pay are axed. People and attractions, why is that so hard to understand?
Pooh did not replace 10KL. It had been closed for years. It was a matter of removing it and putting something besides another character greeting area. Pooh can be removed at anytime if the go ahead for another attraction is given.

 

[Another Voice]

But there are people on these boards who won't even admit that the attraction you mention are succesful let alone that they are impressive.

Again - the way you've written that statement says that a) the rides you mentioned are, in fact, successful & impressive and b) people who disagree with your declaration are "at fault".

You have stated your opinion as fact - but can not back up your own feelings, let alone "prove" they represent "truth".

So enlighten us - how is 'Mission: Space' "impressive" to everyone else?

 

[ChrisFL]

Read my last post.


I don't get why Toad was so great
They were cut outs for COL! Kids have no idea who toad was? Pooh makes money! Pooh won't cause an 11% drop in attendance.

US removed Kong? The movie came out in the 30s, 70s, and 20006. I miss Kong. Isn't that the same thing? The Mummy????? It is a cool ride but will people remember that movie 10 or 20 years later?

My point is I don't think US or Disney rips down an attraction if people use it or see it. They match total attendance to daily riders and determine the attractions draw. Poor performs that can't justify their pay are axed. People and attractions, why is that so hard to understand?
Pooh did not replace 10KL. It had been closed for years. It was a matter of removing it and putting something besides another character greeting area. Pooh can be removed at anytime if the go ahead for another attraction is given.

I can't disagree on the Kong vs Mummy remark, however its difficult to tell why Kong was chosen to be replaced. One ride replacement doesn't mean Universal is losing its way.

I'd venture to guess that Shrek 3D is more popular than Alfred Hitchcock was, Jimmy Neutron and Spongebob are more recognizable to kids than Hanna Barbera, MIB was a whole new building and done much better and obviously a much larger budget than Buzz Lightyear.

 

[peter11435]

So enlighten us - how is 'Mission: Space' "impressive" to everyone else?

The fact that you need me to explain to you why Mission: Space is impressive proves my point.

 

[peter11435]

I'd venture to guess that Shrek 3D is more popular than Alfred Hitchcock was, Jimmy Neutron and Spongebob are more recognizable to kids than Hanna Barbera, MIB was a whole new building and done much better and obviously a much larger budget than Buzz Lightyear.

And Buzz Lightyear is more popular than Dreamflight was, Winnie the Pooh is more recognizable to kids than Mr. Toad.

 

[ChrisFL]

And Buzz Lightyear is more popular than Dreamflight was, Winnie the Pooh is more recognizable to kids than Mr. Toad.

But I don't consider shooting at cardboard cutouts to be a magical experience like Dream Flight/Take Flight was.

That's not to say that Take Flight shouldn't have been replaced, but Disney should be able to put the same amount of work into their new attractions that was put into them in the past.

If Universal is able to do it, why can't Disney?

 

[MJMcBride]

But I don't consider shooting at cardboard cutouts to be a magical experience like Dream Flight/Take Flight was.

That's not to say that Take Flight shouldn't have been replaced, but Disney should be able to put the same amount of work into their new attractions that was put into them in the past.

If Universal is able to do it, why can't Disney?

I'm not exactly sure how Dreamflight/Take Flight were magical? Frankly I always thought they were pretty lame and if my memory serves me, nobody ever went on them. Buzz it seems to me is a lot more popular. And I have enjoyed that ride from the beginning.

There are definately people on these threads who are in my humble opinion way too critical of present day Disney. I understand that comes from a passion about the Parks. If you didn't have that passion, I doubt you would wasting time on this website, but some of you guys cannot say one good thing.

So come one Yoho or AnotherVoice and the rest of you, just gimme one attraction that has opened at WDW in the last 5,6,7 years that you just love to go on. There must be at least one.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

our version of the TOT is the most perfect and complete attraction at any park in the world, in my opinion. but where disney is proving to be their own worst enemy is inconsistency. they port it out to DCA, and then wreck that version.

 

[ChrisFL]

I love to go on Soarin'.

I also enjoy Rock'N'Roller coaster because its a complete attraction from start to finish, you're in a rock studio, you meet Aerosmith, you take a nice looking caddy and you go through everything and arrive at a really cool "outdoor venue" where you watch the concert, well kinda.

Other than that, Im guessing I'll enjoy Everest but I havent been on it yet.

 

[ChrisFL]

our version of the TOT is the most perfect and complete attraction at any park in the world, in my opinion. but where disney is proving to be their own worst enemy is inconsistency. they port it out to DCA, and then wreck that version.

I'll find that out myself soon, but yes I've seen pics of the unthemed hallway before you board your elevator, what's up with that?

Anyway, the problem is that Disney held itself to a higher standard than any other park, it's when they start to lower their standards like we've seen that I feel the magic starts to go away. Things get budgeted too far.

Another fine example is the difference between DCA and Tokyo DisneySea. It doesn't take an expert to see which park is better themed and has better attractions. Guess which one Disney didn't have to pay for (mostly).

So while it was mentioned that money doesn't make the difference I say it really does make a big difference. You can only budget so far before the quality goes down.

 

[YoHo]

YoHo, to go back to your Restaurant analogy, imagine you’re a food critic. You write an article and you say:

Food Critic: “This restaurant is getting cheap. The atmosphere is not as good as it used to be and the food tastes like it came from a box. The breadsticks were OK, and I thought the steak was dry”.

Reader: “Wow, I guess you don’t like that restaurant”.

Food Critic: “Now, I’m offended. I love this restaurant. How could you say such a thing.”

Let me rewrite this so it reflects my feelings accuratly.

Food Critic: "The resturant is becoming nothing but a cheap chain. The atomosphere has become worse, the new menu items taste like Swansons, the breadsticks are hard as billyclubs and the Steak was horrendous. Fortunatly, they still serve their famous Cherries Jubilee and it is as magnificent as ever. Using the same formula as the day the resturant was opened 50 years ago this exquisit dessert is still a delight for the senses and enough to wipe the horrendous meal from your mind and make you think everything is still right in the world. Don't expect the same great meal at a reasonable price that brought you here years ago, but don't let that stop you from coming in for a quick unforgettable dessert.





I have no obligation to accept what I don't like about the modern parks or stop going. That's silly and I'll be positive in one of these discussions when I see something to be positive about. Actually, I was really positive about that rumor regarding Monsters Inc. Coming to Universe of Energy, so there!

 

[YoHo]

So come one Yoho or AnotherVoice and the rest of you, just gimme one attraction that has opened at WDW in the last 5,6,7 years that you just love to go on. There must be at least one.

I love Soarin over California.

It's no E-Ticket attraction and it's absolutly stupid that it was copied lock Stock and Barrel to Florida, but I really like it.

I also go to Whoopi saves California a lot, but that's mainly to laugh at how stupifingly dumb it is.

Anyway, I'm giving up on discussing anything with you Peter. Every post you make boils down to this:

"You don't respect others opinions"
"You're wrong about everything because I say so"

You're a hipocrit and I'm fed up with it.



But, just to fuel the fire.

Mission:Space as originally designed was what twice as big? With a more complex story and more attractions in the pavilion. It's budget was slashed, the story was hacked and people get sick on it a lot.
Why exactly should I be impressed by something like that. Imagineering shot so high and then the accountineers hacked them at the knee. just why the h#$% is that so impressive?

I was at Ariels grotto with three little girls a couple weeks ago and they couldn't get enough of seeing me wearing the princess crown while eating. Disney should hire me to sit their and eat since I was the most magical darn thing in the park to those 3. I'm much cheaper then an over grown carny ride and I don't require a barf bag (well maybe I do. )