Attack of the Lakeshore Lodge

[Patmcpsu]

So hard to say until we know the make-up of the resort and view categories. Even for current, active selling resorts, we don't know exactly how things will pan out until everything is declared and sold out. RIV has a fair number of years in operation - I'd say if you want a resort view studio or resort view 2 BR lock-off, you better own there. For the Poly Island Tower, my money is on it following BLT - if you want resort view, you definitely better own there. If you're ok with preferred view, you probably don't need to own there. TP view will likely be somewhere in between. For LSL, let's see what the view categories are and exactly how many of each there are. Could be like CCV where A LOT of points are tied up in the cabins, making studio, 1 BR, and 2 BRs all somewhat difficult to book if you don't own there.

This is a good point. There's three obvious view categories, and I wouldn't be surprised if they shoehorn in a forth (premium view):

1. Facing away from the lake: Resort View
2. Facing towards the lake, lower floors: Preferred View
3. Facing towards the lake, higher floors: Fireworks View

And I wouldn't be surprised if LSL follows PIT's lead and creates public spaces on higher floors, some of which with fireworks views.

 

[Brian Noble]

What would be the point to own here if its so huge anyone can easily get a room

There is a lot of value in certainty.

 

[GADisneyDad14]

I wonder if they'll continue the duo studios here. I like the option for when its just my wife and I, especially for pit where the tpv is insanely priced, I could justify the duo studio premium view.

This was from pre-2020, but at the time this blog post had some pretty detailed narrative of room types and concept art, including “Pod Rooms” which would be a Duo Studio- https://wdwnt.com/2019/08/concept-a...r-bear-fox-and-the-hound-pocahontas-and-more/

TBD on actual final room types of course, but I’m guessing these are directionally still accurate, if not completely accurate.

“Pod Rooms”






And “Studio Lock-Off Rooms”

 

[aka Charles]

I can't remember if if was here or another thread but I went down the rabbit hole sometime over the summer measuring the lazy river in one of the stormwater permits since those are at scale and I got ~633 feet for the full loop, which compared to ~244 feet for Stormalong Bay and ~698 feet for the Four Seasons, just for context. All should be considered approximate and the stormwater permits had a few slightly different versions of the pool and lazy river along the way. So your crew cab truck for scale measuring is probably pretty close!

I did not mention it, but I also estimated that each U-turn looked to add about 50 feet.

So adding my guesses gets 270 + 270 + 50 + 50 = 640.

I think your estimate from the permits is spot on!

I am hoping the spaces being worked on around the main pool are for a waterslide and a bar.

If they do a good job on the theming get the layout right, this could dethrone Stormalong Bay.
.

 

[BayTower2010]

This project just might be a refreshing new for a DVC resort. The last several projects many including myself have had a collection yuck to the resort designs. Now we can see evidence of the lazy river with a pool, add in a nice bar and slide and you are talking about a WOW factor we have not seen from DVC in decades. As usual I will hope for the best but expect to be disappointed.

 

[Girlstar30]

This was from pre-2020, but at the time this blog post had some pretty detailed narrative of room types and concept art, including “Pod Rooms” which would be a Duo Studio- https://wdwnt.com/2019/08/concept-a...r-bear-fox-and-the-hound-pocahontas-and-more/

TBD on actual final room types of course, but I’m guessing these are directionally still accurate, if not completely accurate.

“Pod Rooms”

View attachment 1017687 View attachment 1017689




And “Studio Lock-Off Rooms”

View attachment 1017691 View attachment 1017692

Oh wow thanks for this, so much detail, it feels to me like if vgc rooms got the new modernized layout (vdh, pit) it would be like this

 

[MyDogTink]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. They'll put together an incredible plan with some amazing imagineered artists renderings. Then when it comes time to budget and pay for it all, they'll pare it back, and it won't be nearly as cool as it could have been. I hope I'm wrong.

Didn't this happen with the Island Tower pool? I thought the plans showed a ledged pool (I know I butchered that term) and then the pool was ultimately scaled back.

 

[DoubleBaconBLT]

Well, being able to float around and look at Bay Lake may be the final element that gets me to buy direct...at least somewhere...probably not here, if LSL ends up in the Trust....but somewhere.

Why would you not want to buy in the Trust? My understanding is that the trust just gives DVD more flexibility with how they structure units, declarations, deeds, etc. How would the trust make owning there worse?

 

[Tatebeck]

Why would you not want to buy in the Trust? My understanding is that the trust just gives DVD more flexibility with how they structure units, declarations, deeds, etc. How would the trust make owning there worse?

There are technically less rights that an owner of the trust system gets compared to a deeded real estate interest to a resort. That's why it is more flexible for DVC, they do not have to deal with all of the condominium laws like they do with the deeded approach.

So probably due to something with that or just the resale value hit that restricted points have

 

[maui22]

Isn't it possible Disney has plans to give the trust some benefits we haven't seen before?
For example, couldn't DVD/DVC give trust resorts a better booking option among the trust resorts? Example, 11 months home resort, 8 months other trust resorts, and 7 months non-trust resorts?

If this ends up being possible, we won't know until the second trust resort comes along.

 

[tidefan]

Why would you not want to buy in the Trust? My understanding is that the trust just gives DVD more flexibility with how they structure units, declarations, deeds, etc. How would the trust make owning there worse?

For me, the biggest thing is that they have given themselves specifically the right to reallocate points across units, which they have tried before (see the Treehouses), but have also been pushed back on (see point charts lock-off premium fiasco of 2020) where total amounts of points in the resort, and specifically in each unit, as ownership is defined as % of a "unit", so if they changed the amount of points, it could technically change one's percentage of ownership.

An example is this. Suppose DVD were to tear down Aruba at CBR and build monstrous (but wonderful) 4-bedroom "Mediterranean Villas" and attach it to the RIV association. Now, let's suppose they make those say 200 points per night. The way that many interpret the deeds as they existed prior to the Trust is that DVD cannot then say make those "Med Villas" 150 points a night and distribute the others and say make the existing 2 bedrooms and Studios all say 5-10 more points per night.

The easiest thing to see this with is with the BPK addition to GFV as it was only declared into the association in 2 units, each consisting of 889,911 points (for a total of 1,779,822 points). Each "unit" was a declaration of 101 rooms. So, those rooms (all Resort Studios) for the "unit" are 889,911 points. Theoretically, to fill those 101 rooms for the entire year, should be 889,911 total points. Now, say you bought 150 points in one of these units, lets call it "Unit X". Your ownership in your documents would be expressed as a percentage of this. So in this example, your 150 GFV points would be expressed as a .000168556 percent ownership of "Unit X". OK, so say they add units to the association and reallocate to make the resort studios more a night. Now, your percentage ownership would be less than what is recorded in your deed.

With the trust, they explicitly allow themselves to play this game. That is why I think that there is additional hesitancy from certain persons ("raises hand") to purchase into CFW as there is not a guarantee that those point values for the Cabins will remain as they are as they allocate more into the trust, and also why you see many stating that Fixed Week purchases there may make more sense in more ways than one. There are a lot more nuances to this (you can talk about "Base year variations" and even in the trust subdividing into "Use Plans", but then you are really going down the rabbit hole), but they are good to know so that you really know what you are buying.

That said, I think that I tend to agree with @Brian Noble that the number of people who actually have this as a concern are a small subset of people that are on these boards and that the general population doesn't even think about it...

 

[Sandisw]

Why would you not want to buy in the Trust? My understanding is that the trust just gives DVD more flexibility with how they structure units, declarations, deeds, etc. How would the trust make owning there worse?

To add to what was posted, they have the ability to relocate across component sites that are part of the same plan in a way they don’t.

So, an owner who buys under condo resorts now knows that points are fixed for that resort.

The trust can change and there is even language that suggests that points can be added at a different rate for the same resort.

If you look at the two declarations of CFW, the second declarations had more point cabins than the first.

They also can replace inventory in the trust with something else, as long as it is comparable.

Just a few examples. While we have no idea what is to come in terms of how LSL will be sold, but some who have looked into the trust documents and see how it could be structured seems to be enough for them to lean away from wanting that.

 

[Spivey378]

Only buying if they use lake water for the pools and river, and have a rope swing into the pool.

 

[DoubleBaconBLT]

Isn't it possible Disney has plans to give the trust some benefits we haven't seen before?
For example, couldn't DVD/DVC give trust resorts a better booking option among the trust resorts? Example, 11 months home resort, 8 months other trust resorts, and 7 months non-trust resorts?

If this ends up being possible, we won't know until the second trust resort comes along.

Yeah, from what I've read (which is almost all speculation and rumor), the trust would mostly likely be used to further limit resale members. The trend has been a nerf to resale every ~5 years, and we haven't had one since 2021.

 

[DoubleBaconBLT]

To add to what was posted, they have the ability to relocate across component sites that are part of the same plan in a way they don’t.

So, an owner who buys under condo resorts now knows that points are fixed for that resort.

The trust can change and there is even language that suggests that points can be added at a different rate for the same resort.

If you look at the two declarations of CFW, the second declarations had more point cabins than the first.

They also can replace inventory in the trust with something else, as long as it is comparable.

Just a few examples. While we have no idea what is to come in terms of how LSL will be sold, but some who have looked into the trust documents and see how it could be structured seems to be enough for them to lean away from wanting that.

Wait, so they have 63 CFW cabins currently declared. Are you saying they could declare one more, but just decide to make it "worth" 64x as many points, and that would cause all existing owners to have to pay twice as many points per stay (effectively doubling the points chart)?

If so, I can see why no one who knows this would be willing to buy it.

 

[Sandisw]

Wait, so they have 63 CFW cabins currently declared. Are you saying they could declare one more, but just decide to make it "worth" 64x as many points, and that would cause all existing owners to have to pay twice as many points per stay (effectively doubling the points chart)?

If so, I can see why no one who knows this would be willing to buy it.

Technically, yes. The way the trust works is that DVD adds inventory to it. They added all the cabins.

But then then activate the inventory into a RTU plan and say how many points it is. There is no requirement that those have to be the same as before and with CFW they were different.

Now, I don’t think DVC would go to extremes, because it would make no sense as it would kill the product.

But, as time goes on, it might make sense to shift this way for how they sell DVC.