Aspergers or is he just spoiled??? LONG

dyna

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Yesterday I went with my DD an 3.5 yr old Gson to a very well known clinic where he was tested for speech, OT, an phsyological testing.

Gson has already been dx'd with PVL a very mild case of that, he does have a speech impairment. No one is arguing that... DD is getting her masters in special ed so she has studied different disaiblities and she had talked to several doctors an parents that has asperger kids. She really thought that gson had aspergers. WHY?

1. He is already very OCD over certain things an things has to be in order or he looses it.

2.He hates strange places an strangers...has to go at it on his level. As a baby cried more screamed for 30 mins or so till he adjusted. Recently we had him at my aunts house which was new an there was about 10 ppl there he did not know 1st he'd come look in the door, then he'd open door look inside, then step inside an go right back out, then he'd stay in till someone noticed him then he'd run back out the door. 3 hours into the visit he finally was able to come in an be socialable.

3. Does not play with other kids often bites, hits, or kicks them when they try to play with him......this is getting better with behavoir therapy an preschool.

4. When not getting his way he is in my words a holy terror. Screaming, throwing things, hitting, kicking, biting till he gets his way.

This morning I had the displeasure of listening to DD get the boys up for preschool. Knowing 1 is a very difficult child who needs lots of her attention she started waking the older 1 who is going to be 5 next month up 10 minutes before she had to be out the door with him to take him to school on her way to work.

Meaning the younger 1 woke up too an is demanding attention, she is screaming at him that she has to get brother dressed an to school so she can go to work. Of course the child screams louder. In the meantime she is screaming at the older one to get up an get dressed that they only have 10 mins...Knowing her younger 1 needs attention when he 1st wakes up an that he crys every AM for her to take him to school not to go to work etc WHY does she not get up earlier allow more time for the boys to get ready an some time to spend with the needy son? Maybe set the timer for 10 min that when it goes off she has to go? Aspergers or not he'd eventually learn that when the buzzer sounds he has to tell mommy byebye.

Then there was the issue of walking mommy to the car...something I myself would never have taken the time to start but she has. They just moved into my house an going outside to tell mommy bye now involves a full flight of 12 steps for a child who often falls over his own feet. Of course in hurrying down the last few steps he fell down the bottom 2 steps thankfully was OK but now DD is held up another 5 mins calming the boy down again. (The boys go to 2 different schools 1 has to be at school by 8an the other at 8:30) Dad takes the younger 1 to school.

Yesterday Gson was on his very best behavior so no one seen how is is most of the time. we was told that since Gson has speech impairment he cannot have aspergers. That DD has been blessed for all he could have wrong for him to have came out as well as he has that she was truely blessed the PVL could be so so much worse.....

Did the testers take in consideration that with the PVL an the soeech impairment that the boy could possibly have aspergers too or did they over look that possiblity or is the boy just used to getting his own way an the older he gets the more he demands to get his own way?

IMHO DD is setting herself up for more work with him by giving into him all the time. Yes aspergers is difficult I fully agree but would you butter another piece of bread because the child wanted his butter on the other side of bread? DD did. Maybe I'm expecting to much myself I think I'd have sent mine even with aspergers to room to throw their fit an when it was over they could come back an eat their bread the way it was buttered or done without the bread an ate the rest of their food.

As a kid myself I would not have gotten anything else to eat till I ate that bread along with being sent to room to throw my fit.

I have seen DD stand there for 10 mins while she asked 3 yr old which spoon he wanted an let him finger all the spoons in drawer till he found the 1 he wanted. I've seen her let him get up in middle of meal an get another spoon or fork because the 1 he was using he did not like anymore. Of course then he's fingering an handling all the spoons in drawer with dirty food covered hands.

I've seem this kid sit at 4 different chairs while eating a meal.....seen DD trade with him midmeal because he wanted to sit in her chair. The list goes on an on.....so he it aspergers or is he just spoiled or a little of both?

At what point does a parent with aspergers say OK enough of this we are going to pick from 3 spoons, sit down eat in our chair the whole meal, including the bread no matter which side the butter is on? I realize to do all 3 at once could overwhelm any young child.

Oh of course by only getting the older 1 up 10 mins before having to leave he went out the door without breakfast. As did the younger 1 because dad did not think to give him any. Neither child brushed teeth or got face washed. I combed the younger 1's hair or it would not have been done. His hair is half way down his back he doesn't want it cut another 1 of his issues. His daddy wants to just run comb thru his hair starting at top an pulling tangles out me I've had long very curly tangled hair all my life an know how to do his hair pain free.

Thankfully I moving in a couple of days I would not be able to live with DD an her family for long.... DD buying my house I'm moving just waiting to close on house before I leave town.
 
First, can you explain what PVL is? Are you referring to Periventricular leukomalacia (PVL) or perhaps a language processing disorder with same/similar abbreviation?

No matter what is going on with the child your daughter is probably very stressed. Parenting a special needs child is hard. Maybe she does cater to some unnessary needs but many of us have been there and done things just to survive the day without going mental. She is probably just treading water right now and doing her best not to drown. My best advice is be a blessing. Your daughter does not need any more criticism, she needs support. Instead of telling her what you think she is doing wrong, maybe ask her what you can do to help instead?
 
Some of his behaviors and preferences sound like our dd who is 5 and has high-functioning autism. She does have a speech delay, therefore doesn't have an Asperger's diagnosis.

I am going to be very candid with you. I sense a lot of judging and criticism of her parenting by you. Believe me, even if you don't voice your opinions, she is keenly aware of them. Parenting these kids is unlike anything I've ever done. If we only had our older dd, I'd be patting myself on the back for what a well-behaved, courteous, etc child we've raised.

Parenting our younger dd has been very humbling. I need people to be supportive, or neutral, or get out of the way. Unfortunately, not everyone is supportive or neutral, and for those people, we try to rarely if ever, interact with them. We are busy just trying to get through the day.
 
A speech impairment is not necessarily a significant communication delay, it takes a significant delay in language development to exclude Aspergers. In any case it really does not in the end make much difference if it is high functioning Austism or Aspergers since lot of HFA kids catch up on their language and are clinically indistinguishable to Aspergers kids except for the clinical history. Items 1-3 are classic manifestation of HFA/Aspergers when the child is not diagnosed and well supported. He obviously has significant sensory differentials, and social skills deficits. the only thing I cannot get any indicating for is the Executive function situation. If there is an appearance of lack of attention to spoken word, but an ability to focus exceptionally on areas of special interest an image based information.
Most of the manifestations you are seeming are based on elevated anxiety from not being able to understand social expectations and from sensory overload.
Your DD is actually doing OK for not having a deep background and top quality clinical support. Punishing children because of a disability is one of the most damaging things you can do to them. Forcing a spectrum child to be neurotypical is also exceptionally damaging, with time and skill development it does get better, but it takes formal skill development for items which are innate in most children.
If you want to learn about you GC get a copy of Toney Attwoods's "The complete guide to Aspergers" which is available on Amazon for about $17 and get a copy to leave with DD.
Bookwormde
 

PVL is periventricular lukomylasia (sp?)

I really really try not to be critical of the way DD is handling the boys as far as helping her with them my help has been unwanted for the most part not so much by their mother but another DD who babysits them an is around to help far more than I am.

In 2 days I'm moving a 1,000 miles away an will not be here to help DH an I are retiring to FL it's been in our plans for more than 20 yrs finally getting to do it.

Yes DD is barely floating along here along with the boys she is working full time going to school full time I think tonight is her last class till after New Years....so maybe she will get a chance to unpack from the move...it was not my idea for DD to move at this time, she asked what we was doing with the house an we said Sell it an She said I want to buy it. It does give the boys a much better place to grow up than where they was at just can't say it was a good time for them to move.
 
I am not a Dr. but the things you have mentioned could indicate a number of things. DS15 (my step-son) was a very difficult younger child and very similar to what you described. He had a major speech delay and as he got older we also learned that he had a pretty severe auditory processing disorder. He also has ADHD which he started taking meds for a few years ago. He is now a freshman in high school, just made the honor roll and "knock on wood" is one of the most easy going teenagers I know. But, it did take interventions and a lot of patience on everyone's part. Parenting a child with special needs can be very difficult. Hopefully, with love, understanding, patience and a lot of hard work on everyone's part your DGS will get the help that he needs and your DD will learn how best to help him. If she hasn't already, she might want to look to see what the public schools are able to offer him in the way of services. :flower3:
 
The only thing the testing on Monday showed was dysarthria with his speech even then he tested out at being3.9 yrs old instead of being lower he was higher by a few months than his age.

The few times I've had Gson the past few months I've not had the trouble with his mother does or his aunt. I went to Gparents day with him at school and brought him home. That day I told him he had to hold my hand (many more cars leaving parking lot than normal) he held my hand showed me where aunts car was that I was driving walked straight to it got in car in his seat I buckled him in.

I told him when we got home we had to go inside an eat lunch so we could go to therapy.
He got out of car ran to door opened it an came right upstairs sat down at table, let me get his lunch, used the spoon I handed him, did not switch chairs while eating etc.

We did some quiet easy playing till time for therapy about 30 mins....therapist has had trouble with him being to tired for his therapy so while I knew he would not nap at my house an if he did would not get nap out an would be cranky for therapy.

This is NOT what gson does for his parents or aunt. For them he wanders all over parking lot before going to car, once in car it is afight to get him in carseat he's all over the car, playing getting into stuff an it usually takes 15 to 30 mins just to get him in his seat buckled in.

When he gets out of car at my house he runs all over yard playing no matter how hard it is raining or how cold it is. Same when time to leave. Parents an aunt yell an scream at him for it but do nothing else about it. The yelling an screaming does nothing but tire them out.lol If I go out to help with him he only continues doing it knowing he can get away with it with them. He might walk to the car an get in car but not in seat an I refuse to chase him in the car that is his parents job.

Gson displays NONE of the behavior at school that he does with parents. He goes to preschool 5 mornings a week gets his speech, OT an PT there an is a little angel at school.

Seems like if gson was challenged in some way he'd have a hard time being an angel in school too. Last yr when he was getting therapy at home the days his mommy was there he would not do therapy but if I had him without mommy or his aunt he did therapy no problem.

1 day a week on Fridays of all days when he is prolly the most tired he goes to speech an behavior mod therapy at another facility 40 minutes away. What the therapist there see is a tired cranky little boy most of the time. The behavior mod says he needs nap but there really is not time for nap between school an therapy....DD has tried to change therapy time to later in afternoon to allow more time for a nap but the therapist is not willing to work with her on that an we can't change living so far away.

There again if there were problems, challenges however you want to call it seems it would show up in his behavior therapy more so than just saying he's overly tired.

I've also noticed the last few days since they have all been living with me that not only are the boys not getting breakfast, they snack all afternoon no real lunch is offered an they get supper about 9 or 10 pm an in bed about 11 pm the boys are up for school by 7:15. I hear 10:30 or 11 is their normal bedtime an they used to very late suppers too.

Like I said I not steppin in to help because their aunt to willing to allow me to help an too I'm moving I leave tomorrow for sure.
 
No, your GS is not spoiled. It sounds to me the difference in behavior you see between home and school is due to structure. Routines make life so much easier for kids who thrive on predictability. Unfortunately, routines are much harder to establish at home because there are so many factors to family life. Its not like school where there is a bell schedule and specifically assigned jobs (teachers, cooks, janitors), parents have to multitask. When you add in the extra therapies and doctors special kids need, it is nearly impossible to juggle time without letting lots of other things go.
It sounds like you are not really able to provide help so your daughter can regain footing. So I am reminding you it is easy to critize from the outside looking in. It is much harder when you live something day in and out. Your daughter will work things out.
 
No, your GS is not spoiled. It sounds to me the difference in behavior you see between home and school is due to structure. Routines make life so much easier for kids who thrive on predictability. Unfortunately, routines are much harder to establish at home because there are so many factors to family life. Its not like school where there is a bell schedule and specifically assigned jobs (teachers, cooks, janitors), parents have to multitask. When you add in the extra therapies and doctors special kids need, it is nearly impossible to juggle time without letting lots of other things go.
It sounds like you are not really able to provide help so your daughter can regain footing. So I am reminding you it is easy to critize from the outside looking in. It is much harder when you live something day in and out. Your daughter will work things out.

I would agree with this. I would also add that another possibility is that he is working so hard to hold it together at school that he kind of loses it at home. My DD7 has some minor sensory issues and has always been challenging at home. At school, however, her teachers have never had anything but wonderful things to say about her and how she is a model student and they wish they could duplicate her. If I didn't teach at the school, I would think they all had the wrong child. :laughing: Same is true with many of my students. (I teach Special Education - 1st and 2nd grade) They are so well behaved for me at school and give their parents a run for their money. Combine all this with the lack of consistent schedules like the PP mentioned and I would say most kids save their worst behaviors for their parents. I know all mine do. :goodvibes
 
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but it seems like your gson is perhaps not getting enough sleep. At that age, it is very important to get a good night sleep. Your dd shouldn't have to be waking them up 10 minutes before they need to leave for school and they should not be going to school with no breakfast. Not a good combination for small children. Good luck.
 
Ok I get the structured school over being at home an kids being much better behaved for others than parents mine did the same thing....

PP I agree not enough sleep (the boys has always slept with mom in the big family bed, daddy gets up at 9pmish for work if already asleep they woke up an if trying to get them to sleep they to excited over daddy being up to go to sleep.....another flaw in their family structure we just thankful their daddy has a job to go to.

Also agree the boys needs more wake up time in the AM and breakfast. Mom is running on empty needs every minute of sleep she can get it seems. Funny the boys don't always get naps but she does....of course it's much easier to allow her to take a nap that she wants to take than it is to get the boys that don't want to nap to nap. lol

Their dad gets home about 10 mins before mom has to leave for work seems he's the 1 waking the boys.

DD had said When they moved she was going to put the boys in their own rooms in their own beds but we had not planned on all of us ending up in the same house. Don't think it has mattered that much DD is exhausted by the end of the day an it easier to let them fall asleep with her. What has been different about grampa an I still being here we still sleeping in the master bedroom DD has been starting the night on air mattress on living room floor, she's been putting the boys to bed in their own beds but they get up an get in bed with her....once her bed gets to crowded she now goes gets in 1 of their beds.

I thought well maybe over Christmas break she could work on getting them to sleep in own bed all night but grampa an I coming home for Christmas for a week so maybe not.
Rest of us can go without sleep at night but grampa not gonna tolerate it for long ... Maybe grampa will agree to stay else where the week we here for Christmas.
 
Having differing profiles between enviroments if quite common and is more related to where the child feels "safe" to decompress than anything else. It rarely has anything to do with parenting ability. His different behaviors when with you could be from 2 different sources, first being that he is very comfortable with you and feels safe and that you provide clear directions, and the second is that he complies out of fear and anxiety. Paradoxically sometimes it is a combination of the 2.

bookwormde
 
Hello! Your grandson sounds similar to my son, who is now 7.5. He also has PVL. He is a former 25 wk twin preemie. He also has CP, seizures, severe ADHD, visual impairment and developmentally delayed.
Children with PVL can have symptoms that mimic those of children with autism, but may have other underlying issues. Has your grandson had his vision and hearing checked? We believe our little boy may be face blind. When you mentioned the trouble he has with strangers and crowds, that made me think about how much trouble our little one would have in these situations also. He had trouble figuring out which person he actually knew and who he didn't, so he would get scared. He would listen for our voice and then find us, but had trouble in noisy areas. He also has trouble with depth perception and his peripheral vision and has cortical vision impairment, which means his brain does not process what he sees as well as it should.
A lot of PVL kids also have trouble with hearing issues. With our son it is more his brain actually processing what he is hearing than his actual hearing being impaired. When you mentioned that he has speech impairment, that made me think of that. My son also has problems with his speech and is only about 60% understandable, which is a major improvement from when he was
3 yrs old.
Kids with PVL can also have sensory issues just like kids on the spectrum. My son used to mouth everything until he was about 5. Now, he just has to touch everything. Loud noises are also a problem for him. When we went to Disney World in May 09, he did not like a lot of the rides and none of the shows (even Playhouse Disney). They were all too loud and stimulating. He also has trouble with food textures. We still cannot get him to eat a lot of different foods. The only fruit he will eat is watermelon.
Does your grandson have CP? When you said that he is clumsy, it made me think of it. Does he receive any physical or occupational therapy?
I do have an older son, who is 10 that has Asperger's, so I am very familiar with it also. We had a psychiatrist that tried to diagnose our younger son with PVL with autism also, but I am positive that he does not on the spectrum. (unless you consider ADHD being part of the spectrum, which I am not sure if it is)
My little boy is also much better at school than he is at home. He does better when he is on a schedule, but it is very hard to keep at home with having 3 other kids, who all have some sort of disability also. It does sound like your daughter might be overwhelmed with everything that she has to handle and needs more help than she has. It is very draining and difficult to deal with a child with special needs. I find that trying to stay as organized as I can helps, also taking "me" time as frequently as possible makes a big difference. My husband works nights also, so we have similar schedules. Mornings are also very stressful for us. I try to prepare as much as possible the night before and make the kids do as much of that preparation as they can. Otherwise, it takes me close to an hour to pack 4 lunches each night.
Please let me know if I can help answer any other questions. Feel free to email me at kstugan@yahoo.com also if that is easier.
 
Gson displays NONE of the behavior at school that he does with parents. He goes to preschool 5 mornings a week gets his speech, OT an PT there an is a little angel at school.

Often at school, they spend ALL their energy trying to "act" neurotypical. So when they get home, they are exhausted, over-stimulated, frustrated, anxious, don't know how to express how they feel, and feel safe enough to "let it loose" at home. A psychologist can help find ways to cope with those feelings better.

My son's school last year used a red light, yellow light, and green light system for behavior. He was so focused on not moving off of green. He made it the whole year staying on green. He felt that if he moved to another color he was a failure. He would have nightmares about having to move to another color. It was all self-imposed too, because neither the teacher nor myself would have been bent out of shape if he had to move to another color occasionally.
 



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