Article: Is Disney Dissing the Disabled?

[OneLittleSpark1]

I answered in your questions. In the quote box but I don't think I can change colors on my phone. I'm glad your DD can handle those things. My son's IEP is mostly one on one so he doesn't go to school in a class, but a room with other kids doing one on one. I'm sitting here typing as he paces around the family room. He barely sits for more than 30 seconds.

All your answers are pretty much what I expected (as well as not too far off from my own DD, btw)...again, these are all issues that you have worked around in everyday life. So why can't they be worked out in WDW. That is my point.

 

[Vidia2]

Of course autism is a real disability, but that doesn't mean that children with autism should receive a superior experience to NT kids at the parks.

If families of autistic children make adjustments at home, it seems they should be able to make them on vacation.

I think you are perceiving something as a "superior" experience and that's an inaccurate perception.

We do make adjustment on vacation.

 

[OurBigTrip]

There is going to be no difference in your 'negatively' impacted day with this new system. If you are in line and a bunch of ppl with this DAS card all decide to return at the same time, you are going to be waiting longer. Longer than if they had all arrived at different times like would normally happen.

There is actually no difference in terms of ride impact. The CMs won't be adjusting the wait times based off how many stamps they have given out and they won't be making ppl wait longer who have gotten a stamp.

When people can enter the line with no wait, and the child is allowed to ride the attraction multiple times, everyone in the line is going to be waiting longer. That's an unavoidable fact.

The only people who will be negatively impacted will be those who need this card. I know that's fine will lots of people and that's their/your prerogative to feel like that but don't think for one second your day won't continue to be impacted.

How so? They're going to be able to use and abuse the DAS the same way they did the GAC.

And this card is ripe for abuse. FPs all gone for the day? Might as well pick a DAS and go enjoying a meal while we wait for xyz prime attraction. Those who were abusing the GAC will be able to be in the parks all day and do all the waiting required for this new system. I don't really see how it will cut down on abuse or other guest impact.

With Disney already capitulating and making it front of the line, unlimited ride access, I agree. The only disincentive to cheating was making DAS holders wait. With that gone, there is no longer a reason to not abuse the system.

With the announced changes, Disney might as well have left the GAC as it was.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

Wait, did Disney say they were going to allow some autistic kids to go to the front of the line and ride over and over? Or is the autism organization saying that is what Disney told them they would do?

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

That's the hardest thing to deal with - the siblings WITHOUT the disability. That is what truly makes me cry.

I too feel bad for the siblings, for everyday life as well, not just at WDW. But if we are speaking WDW...I can see why they would be upset too that they no longer get immediate access.

 

[delmar411]

I think you are perceiving something as a "superior" experience and that's an inaccurate perception.

We do make adjustment on vacation.

They can't understand that it is not a superior experience to theirs because they have no life basis in order to compare. So for them the GAC access is a superior experience when compared to their access. If they had to take on the baggage that came with the access then maybe they would change their tune?

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Wait, did Disney say they were going to allow some autistic kids to go to the front of the line and ride over and over? Or is the autism organization saying that is what Disney told them they would do?

So far it's only the latter. Disney has said that they will hear the individual needs, but not exactly what will be done for those individual needs.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Then you're violating section ii.

It might help if you read and understood the legal document you're quoting.

So which is it? If it's unequal access waiting outside of the line, and it's unequal access waiting in the line, then the only thing left is FOTL access.

Which is also unequal access.

I'm guessing that you want the unequal access that is positive for you and negative for everyone else, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[delmar411]

When people can enter the line with no wait, and the child is allowed to ride the attraction multiple times, everyone in the line is going to be waiting longer. That's an unavoidable fact.

How so? They're going to be able to use and abuse the DAS the same way they did the GAC.

With Disney already capitulating and making it front of the line, unlimited ride access, I agree. The only disincentive to cheating was making DAS holders wait. With that gone, there is no longer a reason to not abuse the system.

With the announced changes, Disney might as well have left the GAC as it was.

Have there been some announced changes to the previously announced plan? AFAIK the DAS card means the holder needs to wait? If you have a link to new info, I'd be interested in seeing this. Thanks!

 

[Vidia2]

Sorry but comparing wheelchairs and autism are comparing apples and oranges. We again, are not saying that accommodations aren't necessary at all, just that saying they can't wait is not a reason.

And if families make adjustments to their schedules and activities elsewhere, surely it can be done at WDW as well.

Comparing a child with autism to a NT child is comparing apples to oranges as well and actually, I wasn't comparing wheelchairs and autism. I was making the point that a few people think that autism is not a real disability.

We do make adjustments to our schedules and activities at WDW just like everywhere else.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

They can't understand that it is not a superior experience to theirs because they have no life basis in order to compare. So for them the GAC access is a superior experience when compared to their access. If they had to take on the baggage that came with the access then maybe they would change their tune?

Those of us who have disabilities and special needs children can. Also, with what you say here, we are going back into the "pity me and my life" area. GAC/DAS is NOT for who has the hardest most pitiful life. That is not what it was created for.

It was created to allow equal access. I have lots of things that I can claim as hardships in my life, including being disabled and having a special needs child, but does that mean that everyone should feel bad for me and let my family go first? It can not and should not be based on hardships in life. Then everyone would have a reason for getting a GAC, no one has a perfect life, and the way you have put it out here...you are saying those with kids with special needs have it harder than say...a child with a drug addicted parent, or a child who's parents divorce, or abuse occurring in families. Every family has hardships and they are all different, but we can't sit here and make a list of who is worse off than who.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I think you are perceiving something as a "superior" experience and that's an inaccurate perception.

We do make adjustment on vacation.

When someone is getting FOTL access and riding as many times as they want, with no wait, that most certainly is a superior experience.

 

[Robbi]

Just think for a minute. Even if there are THOUSANDS of people using a GAC in WDW, they are NOT all standing in the same ride line. They are spread out over four parks, over 12-hr days. We went with a GAC and saw at most ONE other person with a GAC in line with us at any ride. We lengthened the wait of those in the standby line by about 30 seconds. Sorry, but I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about that. Of course maybe those in line would have preferred to have my son bumping into them, poking them, shaking the line chains, attempting to wander past them, slowing/stopping the line when he got distracted and hearing us repeatedly trying to get his attention and calm him down and get him to stop his behavior. For twenty to thirty minutes. Yeah, I'm sure they would have liked that much more than having to wait an extra 30 seconds in relative peace and quiet.

For those who are saying that GAC holders were seriously affecting your kids' enjoyment of the parks, I want to know exactly how many people you saw carrying a GAC.

From the sounds of it, every other person must have had a GAC.
We met one family at the Crystal Palace a couple of years ago and over the past 3 or so years, we may have seen 10 families during the holidays.

I'm a disabled veteran too and I see your points, but the GAC issue definitely became a slippery slope .. i.e., my kid doesn't like loud noises, why should we have to leave the park when they can just cancel the fireworks? I guess I should have been thinking like that. No, instead, we just don't stay. Why adversely affect 99% of the people? There are some rides I'm not comfortable standing in line for, so I don't ride those rides. I'm not entitled to move to the front of the line.
And Disney's hands were definitely tied. How do you address the abuse? Scooter rentals have exploded which tied in nicely with America's obesity problem. Yes, an obese person has trouble walking, but does that entitle them and several members of their family to go to the front of the line?
Yes, the new policy will negatively affect a lot of people's vacations, but until somebody can suggest a better method, it's the best one that's out there..

Most of the lines at WDW have been widened to allow wheelchairs. There are a few exceptions: DHS would be TSM because of the stairs. MK- BTMRR I know has a wheelchair entrance because the regular entrance is not wheelchair accessible.

I'm not sure of other parks/attractions because we go through the FP line. The maps show them though.

I've been thinking on this while I was eating my dinner. One thing I realized is there has been lots of responses to those who say their child can not wait in line, saying that there are lots of times in everyday life you have to wait...even examples given. However, no one seems to have an answer to that. Which is very convenient, IMO.

So, I am putting it out there. If your child can not wait even 15 minutes in line to ride an attraction at WDW, then what do you do at home when.....

-You have to wait at a stop light? Do you crash into cars, bc your child can't wait? Or run over pedestrians bc god forbid, your child can't wait!

-You have to wait in line at the grocery store?

- Do you provide Christmas or Bdays, or Halloween every day of the year, bc the child can't wait for that one day a year?

-Your cooking dinner and your child wants it now? Or your waiting at a restaurant to be served? Should they get theirs cooked before everyone else at the restaurant, bc they have special needs?

-your child has to use the bathroom and it's occupied? Do you have a bathroom FP?

-when they are at the playground and there is a line for the slide, swings, etc? Do you run over and yell that your child should be first bc they don't understand?

These are just a few examples, and yes some are on the extreme side, but apply none the less.

I assume it hasn't been directly answered and skipped over numerous times, bc the answer is...they wait. Which is in direct contradiction to saying they can't wait at WDW. Thus, you don't have a leg to stand on and it's easier to just not respond to valid, thought out, and common sense questions.

Sure, you can answer with the same old same old of...but we are on vacation, and it's the one place where we can participate like regular folks. Except there is a problem with that theory...regular folks don't get front of the line/immediate access...AND just bc your on vacation doesn't mean life, learning, and parenting cease to exist.

Even in the special needs program my DD is in at school, she has to wait her turn to answer, to play games, to get her lunch, to go to recess, to sharpen her pencil...I could go on and on. If they are teaching it in school, then it must be an important life skill that professionals feel need to be taught. They also wouldn't bother to teach it, if it can't be learned.

If he has a meltdown, we leave whether it's WDW, a restaurant, the grocery store, church, etc. because believe it or not, we are not horrible, terrible people and do show consideration to others.

Maybe read up some on Autism and learn some of the issues such as resistance to being touched, gettingupset by change in their routine or environment, or repetitive body movements like hand flapping, rocking, spinning and basically moving constantly.

Of course autism is a real disability, but that doesn't mean that children with autism should receive a superior experience to NT kids at the parks.

If families of autistic children make adjustments at home, it seems they should be able to make them on vacation.

Maybe we should just keep our kids home and not allow them out in public.

It's a shame that you feel you can't have a good time at Disney unless you're negatively impacting others.

No, the shame is the refusal to even try to understand how others are impacted by their children's disabilities.

Being able to sit somewhere shady or do something else while waiting is an excellent compromise, which is what Disney originally said they were going to do. It's too bad they've apparently been bullied into going back to the same system that is being abused.

As for kids being dealt a bad card, I don't see where that has anything to do with a trip to Disney. How bad somewhat has it 51 weeks out of the year is, or should be, completely unrelated to what they experience in the park.

The shady seating area sounds good. Where are they? The few chairs in the shade are occupied most of the time.

 

[sharadoc]

Get ready for the thread to close.

I will summarize my position which is that

Disney used to give us pixie dust and no one noticed. It wasn't based on ADA equal access, it was compassion coupled with recognition of a growing market that would choose WDW as their sole vacation destination based on their willingness to accommodate families with autism

Then word got around and people started lying and taking advantage of the system.

We do not want immediate access or ride something over and over.

Autism is the most misunderstood condition ever so it can't be analyzed, characterized or generalized.

Disney made this change very suddenly and we are unsure how to manage it.

We are pi**ed off at the cheaters who caused the change.

It's amazing how many people filter posts based on their opinion and not what's actually written.

That's all. Starting the padlock countdown!

 

[Robbi]

Get ready for the thread to close.

I will summarize my position which is that

Disney used to give us pixie dust and no one noticed. It wasn't based on ADA equal access, it was compassion coupled with recognition of a growing market that would choose WDW as their sole vacation destination based on their willingness to accommodate families with autism

Then word got around and people started lying and taking advantage of the system.

We do not want immediate access or ride something over and over.

Autism is the most misunderstood condition ever so it can't be analyzed, characterized or generalized.

Disney made this change very suddenly and we are unsure how to manage it.

We are pi**ed off at the cheaters who caused the change.

It's amazing how many people filter posts based on their opinion and not what's actually written.

That's all. Starting the padlock countdown!

Well said.

 

[AndreaA]

I would also like to add here, that while you and I don't share the same opinions...calling me ignorant and condescending is well....pretty ignorant. No where did I attack or call you names nor say that what you wrote was ignorant. Funny though, that the people who want the compassion and understanding, and not to be called names...resort to name calling when they don't have a valid leg to stand on in their argument.

So basically, if I am reading your response correctly...unless you have front of the line/immediate access, it's not a good time for you. Even if that is at the expense of other children's good times, bc you have it so hard, you deserve it.

I have a few words I could use to describe what I think of your posts and opinions, but being the lady I am...I won't actually write them down as you did. Thank you.

Firstly, yes, it absolutely is ignorant to suggest that parents of children with a disability must be somehow making it out to sound worse than it is because how do they manage in everyday life otherwise. That is pretty much exactly what your post boiled down to, and yes, it is an ignorant and insensitive thing to say. You might also notice that I was talking about your POST being ignorant, not you, so no name-calling involved.

Secondly, you seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that I stated that THIS NEW SYSTEM WILL NOT IMPACT ME. My son should be fine with waiting outside a line anyway, but given that we visit at slow times, we will likely be allowed directly through the FP line (avoiding the queue) more times than not. I specifically said that I am particularly concerned about children with critical illnesses - you know, those who are just as sick as a Wish kid but didn't get chosen as one.

Thirdly, someone asked why I can't wait in a 15min line because the GAC was never supposed to be a FOTL pass. IT'S NOT. The GAC was supposed to allow people to skip the regular queue, and that is why we use it. The supposedly great "interactive" parts of various queues are horrible for my son. TSMM freaked him out so badly he was climbing up my husband. Pooh had us blocking the line as he became obsessed with the dripping honey screens. If that's not a good enough reason for you, well, that's just too bad. Oh, and we DID wait in lines, even when using the GAC. Even when we got to the head of the FP line, we still waited for people in the standby line to board ahead of us.

Finally, I again want to hear some concrete examples of how other people's trips have been negatively affected by people using the GAC. How waiting 30seconds or less for my son is ruining your trip. Heck, just ONE example would be great. Because so far all I see is a bunch of bitter people saying "If I can't get that "benefit" then neither should anyone else! Neener, neener, neener!" Whatever someone with such little sympathy for others thinks about me and my posts, I could not possibly care less.

 

[sharadoc]

All your answers are pretty much what I expected (as well as not too far off from my own DD, btw)...again, these are all issues that you have worked around in everyday life. So why can't they be worked out in WDW. That is my point.

I'm not sure how to read your answer as hostile or understanding, but generally the answer is DON'T GO. Can you imagine the complaints and dirty looks I's get otherwise if we spent a half hour in line like we do at a red light? I know I'd be annoyed. But I'm sure you'll read that as my feeling entitled again which was never my point. I've just been trying to explain.

 

[OneLittleSpark1]

Would you ask a parent of a child who needs to use a wheelchair why they can't just make them walk and demand to know how they manage in day to day life and why they need "special" treatment for WDW or DL? Or if they can walk some of the time why can't they walk for the entire vacation?

Comparing a child with autism to a NT child is comparing apples to oranges as well and actually, I wasn't comparing wheelchairs and autism. I was making the point that a few people think that autism is not a real disability.

We do make adjustments to our schedules and activities at WDW just like everywhere else.

Umm...yes you did. See the first quote I made.

I agree with you autism is a real disability, but the excuse of my kid can't wait and has to ride first...that is where I draw the line. Sure they don't get it, neither do 3 year olds or 5 year olds, or speech impaired people, or kids with intellectual impairment. Waiting is a virtue that all need to learn, special needs or not.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Wait, did Disney say they were going to allow some autistic kids to go to the front of the line and ride over and over? Or is the autism organization saying that is what Disney told them they would do?

http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-item/new-disney-plan-how-it-affects-our-community

Towards the bottom of the page.

 

[delmar411]

Those of us who have disabilities and special needs children can. Also, with what you say here, we are going back into the "pity me and my life" area. GAC/DAS is NOT for who has the hardest most pitiful life. That is not what it was created for.

It was created to allow equal access. I have lots of things that I can claim as hardships in my life, including being disabled and having a special needs child, but does that mean that everyone should feel bad for me and let my family go first? It can not and should not be based on hardships in life. Then everyone would have a reason for getting a GAC, no one has a perfect life, and the way you have put it out here...you are saying those with kids with special needs have it harder than say...a child with a drug addicted parent, or a child who's parents divorce, or abuse occurring in families. Every family has hardships and they are all different, but we can't sit here and make a list of who is worse off than who.

Actually I'm saying those who think going in the FP lane ( it's not a FOTL card) means that your child won't flip out, will behave like magic, will become normal and will always enjoy the experience, are comparing it to their own life experiences which do not include those problems. That is the only way I could see a person declaring this a superior experience.