Armed Teachers?

[Brianne]

I'd be homeschooling too. I've had teachers in my childhood that should never be armed! The mere idea makes me shudder.

 

[reeeoga]

Great Idea. There have been several encidents in which Armed School Employees have stopped Armed people who have already shot students. Specially trained teachers or administrators whould be able to stop a gunman who has started shooting faster than waiting for the police to show up.

A teacher with a CCW (conceiled Carry Weapon) can very easily go about their daily buisness without anyone knowing about their weapon.

The "Gun Free School Zone" and its signs outside the school only help MAdmen find helpless people to kill. If an armed and properly trained teacher can stop the killing of one student, I say go for it.

And as someone who has had a CCW for over 6 years, nobody has every spotted my gun when I do carry (which is anytime I am not working).

 

[MUFFYCAT]

I would not want guns in any teachers hands.!

 

[FreshTressa]

Very bad idea IMO. I'd have to pull DD out of our school if something like this passed.

Yup, me too.

 

[ChrisFL]

Schools here have a policeman on campus every day. Isnt that enough?

Who came up with this crazy idea anyway?

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

i'm kind of indifferent on this one. this would be a good thing to scare kids/people from ever doing anything in the schools.

but then again, just because they're teachers, doesn't mean they're right in the head. and who knows what they would do one day if they just snapped on a student.

 

[LiLIrishChick63]

Yeah, put a gun into a untrained panicked person's hands. Sounds like a great idea.

i'm sure they'd make the teachers take courses and stuff. if they just threw the gun in their hand and said "here you go, have a nice day" then i agree, that would just be stupid.

 

[basas]

I don't know about other states, but in NC, every school has a resource officer who has a gun. No need for me to carry one myself.

Well, if there is a program like this in place, I can understand your thinking. As far as i know, up here, we would be waiting for the police to show up with their guns, while everyone else ran for cover.

I don't think having a few (maybe not every teacher) guns at the school is a bad thing. (example: security guards, police at the school, or even a principal or a few highly trained teachers)...

 

[lovingthemouse]

As a teacher, I would refuse!!! My students see enough violence on the street, and our city's public schools already have uniformed police in our buildings with guns. I am there to educate!!!

 

[AllyandJack]

I shudder to think of how many of my classmates would have been killed at my high school if teachers were armed. I went to a rough, inner city Boston public school - kids punched teachers and set their desks on fire. If my teachers had guns, I think THEY would have been the ones initiating the school shootings.

Not to mention the one teacher who had to be taken out in a straight jacket because she had a nervous breakdown in the classroom.

So, from my perspective - it's not a hot idea.

 

[poohandwendy]

Ok to answer you- Having one or two armed individuals in a population of 600 would be acceptable because recent history has shown us that out of those 600 only one or two would actually be directly responsible for what is going down---the other 598 would be running for their lives and getting mowed down in the process.

In my mind I see my child being safer sitting in a classroom with a teacher who is armed because at least then they would have a fighting chance---The gunman is shooting to take out as many as possible and I believe that lessens the chance that they are going to go directly to where they know that their odds will be greatly reduced

How many investigative reports have been done that show the gunmen will go for the weakest and in situations such as this a classroom with students and a regular teacher is weaker than a classroom with students and an armed former cop.

I'm not saying let Mrs Dowd the 55 year old librarian who had never fired a gun before her first lesson a couple of months ago walk around with a gun---I'm saying the former cop or soldier who has solid trained experience. My understanding is that the gun would be on their person at all times holstered accessible to them if they should need it

Now a lot are going to say--"Well what's to stop a kid from taking it off them"...Well what's to stop a kid from taking it off the cop standing at the front door?? Which to some it seems it is perfectly accceptable to have that cop at the door--So why not in the classroom??

And any person who is in a school shooting it up had access to a weapon long before they met Mr.Cop and his weapon didn't even enter into their plans.

We always taught our kids that the cops are there to protect us-So I believe that a student would feel safer knowing that their teacher was a cop and is ready to help them if they should need it. If a student is resentful of a former cop being their teacher then there are other issues that need addressing.

I grew up in a military family. My dad was military along with an aunt,uncles,sister,bil,cousins and both my husbands. My dad would teach my sister and I take down moves in the living room---My first kickback bruise came when I was 11 and my uncle taught us to fire--My ex and current husband taught me CQC (close quarters combat).
I know I am at my safest while in the company of any of them.

To the poster who said her sister?? was military and only fired at Basic---I don't know how that could be because my DH has to go to the range twice a year to show that he can fire and he needs to pass with a rating of Expert or Marksman on both handgun and rifle---If he doesn't then he will no longer be allowed to be a soldier--Same goes for both my sister and Bil also.

There is a program available to soldiers where they will either send them to school for free or reduced(not sure which) so they can become teachers--I have heard of a similar program for police--Kind of goes with the Cop next door program that is available.

A few points I think you are missing.

a) We have enough trouble finding good teachers and then paying the good teachers a decent salary...you want to add commando to their list of responsibilities? So, if Johnny gets shot, the teacher has to live with the guilt that they were the adult who should have saved the day? And how about the legal repsercussions? Say the teacher accidentally shoots Jimmy in the gunfight? Imagine the lawsuits.

b) Some kids come in with guns just for the threat value and have no intentions of killing anyone...they are troubled. Bring another gun into the mix and there is almost a guarantee of bloodshed where there otherwise may not have been.

c) When do they shoot? When there is a threat or after someone already is dead? What if they find out later the kid was holding a water pistol?

d) We need every available adult in this type of situation to get the students away from danger, not adding to the danger.

e) Mentioned before, but how are the students going to feel safe in school with a teacher who has a loaded gun? How to they carry it without risking it being taken off of them and used? Too much room for it being a dnager rather than a deterrent or a safety measure.

f) With all due respect, I think you are thinking like a made for TV drama. Real life is not that simple. Situations like this are completely unpredictable and prents and students would feel less safe KNOWING their are guns in the school.

g) Some teachers actually go off the deep end too, having the right to carry a loaded gun on them is not a good idea.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

To the poster who said her sister?? was military and only fired at Basic---I don't know how that could be because my DH has to go to the range twice a year to show that he can fire and he needs to pass with a rating of Expert or Marksman on both handgun and rifle---If he doesn't then he will no longer be allowed to be a soldier--Same goes for both my sister and Bil also.

My own personal experience was in the Canadian army reserves. While serving as a combat infantryman I was handling weapons on a regular basis and became intensely familiar with my assigned weapon.

However, for 9 months I was attached to an artillery regiment and assigned to work in the Quartermaster stores. My only handling of the C-7 rifle (Canada's homemade answer to the M-16) was to issue them to the artillerymen. 1 rifle, 1 magazine, 1 bolt -- sign here. I didn't have to strip and assemble the weapon. I didn't have to load the magazine. It wasn't a part of my job expectations in the QM. When I returned to my infantry regiment I had completely forgotten how to load the magazine properly.

I truly wonder why there is often a tendency among some Americans to try to solve the problem of gun violence with more guns. Guns in school -- even if they are in the hands of trained individuals -- will mean only one thing, and that is the guarantee of more school shootings.

Isn't there some bizarre irony that one needs a prescription from a doctor to purchase a CPAP machine in the United States, however there are some states where one can go purchase a .50 calibre sniper rifle with little or no trouble? After all, you might hurt yourself with an incorrectly set CPAP machine.

 

[poohandwendy]

Guns in school -- even if they are in the hands of trained individuals -- will mean only one thing, and that is the guarantee of more school shootings.

I totally agree.

Isn't there some bizarre irony that one needs a prescription from a doctor to purchase a CPAP machine in the United States, however there are some states where one can go purchase a .50 calibre sniper rifle with little or no trouble? After all, you might hurt yourself with an incorrectly set CPAP machine.

True, in some cases. And I wholeheartly adree with strict rules in place for accquiring a gun.

But, on the same token...it's kind of like illegal drugs. Even with the most stringent rules in place, there will always be the criminal element who will get them on te blackmarket. Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

A few points I think you are missing.

a) We have enough trouble finding good teachers and then paying the good teachers a decent salary...you want to add commando to their list of responsibilities? So, if Johnny gets shot, the teacher has to live with the guilt that they were the adult who should have saved the day? And how about the legal repsercussions? Say the teacher accidentally shoots Jimmy in the gunfight? Imagine the lawsuits.

b) Some kids come in with guns just for the threat value and have no intentions of killing anyone...they are troubled. Bring another gun into the mix and there is almost a guarantee of bloodshed where there otherwise may not have been.

c) When do they shoot? When there is a threat or after someone already is dead? What if they find out later the kid was holding a water pistol?

d) We need every available adult in this type of situation to get the students away from danger, not adding to the danger.

e) Mentioned before, but how are the students going to feel safe in school with a teacher who has a loaded gun? How to they carry it without risking it being taken off of them and used? Too much room for it being a dnager rather than a deterrent or a safety measure.

f) With all due respect, I think you are thinking like a made for TV drama. Real life is not that simple. Situations like this are completely unpredictable and prents and students would feel less safe KNOWING their are guns in the school.

g) Some teachers actually go off the deep end too, having the right to carry a loaded gun on them is not a good idea.

I'll try to answer your questions in order--forgive me if I stray!

1)I don't want to add commando to any teachers list of things to do! I wish that this wasn't even a subject that would come about in a conversation!!
If a teacher shoots Johnny in a gun battle then it wasn't an accident and I would be glad as long as Johnny got it before he got my kid.
As for lawsuits if Johnny walked in and started shooting up the place and kids died then the lawsuits would mainly be from parents of murdered children--Johnnies parents wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. As for the guilt of having to shoot someone that can't be avoided regardless of who does the shooting BUT someone who has the kill or be killed mentality already set it may be easier for them to adjust.

2) If someone brandishes a gun it shows intent regardless of if they use it or not. If they don't use it that time and get away with it that just makes it that much easier for them to actually pull the trigger the next time. If they brandish a weapon and they are subdued by the use of a weapon they may just think twice before pulling some crap like that again.

3)The when to shoot issue is a concern to me because I would hate to see them shoot someone just because they're an idiot. But on the other hand if they don't shoot and someone dies because they didn't then what?? I know for me personally if they had a shot and didn't take it and my child died then there would be lawsuits against every department and agency involved.
Why let there be a hostage situation if there doesn't have to be? Why put young lives in jeoprady just because someone thinks they can make some nutjob think he was right and everything will be ok??
So many times you hear the parents of the victims ask "why did this have to happen"? "Why didn't they do more to protect the kids at school?"

4) Yes we do need every available adult helping to get the kids to safety no argument there. But I don't see a weapons carrying teacher adding to the danger that is already going on. The teacher with the weapon is going to much more proficient at handling that weapon than the student who snatched it from his dads cabinet and his/her chance of hitting a student is dramatically reduced compared to the kid.

5)Why would a student not feel more safe when a licensed professional is bringing a gun to school--If I had my choice between a former cop carrying and a pimply faced kid-I would pick the cop----So if I get this right the cops who are at the front doors are just scaring the kids more than they are making them feel safe and protected?? Cops carry their guns in holsters,these holsters generally go around the waist but they are also available as shoulder holsters which can be hidden by a suitcoat---Students probably wouldn't even know which teacher,if any,was carrying a weapon.

6)True-Real life is not that simple and all problems cannot be solved in a half an hour--And your last statement here is not totally accurate--Many parents and students feel safer because there are cops at the front door along with metal detectors---Guns are already in the schools----We just need to decide if we want those guns to be in the hands of kids who don't have much sense or in the hands of trained professionals!

7)Yes many teachers go off the deep end.Many doctors go off the deep end. Many elected officials go off the deep end. But given our news selection over the past few years the rate of teachers shooting up a school hasn't even registered whereas the rate of students shooting up a school has become so common it's nowhere as horrific as it was when Columbine happened.

 

[poohandwendy]

I'll try to answer your questions in order--forgive me if I stray!

1)I don't want to add commando to any teachers list of things to do! I wish that this wasn't even a subject that would come about in a conversation!!
If a teacher shoots Johnny in a gun battle then it wasn't an accident and I would be glad as long as Johnny got it before he got my kid.
As for lawsuits if Johnny walked in and started shooting up the place and kids died then the lawsuits would mainly be from parents of murdered children--Johnnies parents wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on. As for the guilt of having to shoot someone that can't be avoided regardless of who does the shooting BUT someone who has the kill or be killed mentality already set it may be easier for them to adjust.

2) If someone brandishes a gun it shows intent regardless of if they use it or not. If they don't use it that time and get away with it that just makes it that much easier for them to actually pull the trigger the next time. If they brandish a weapon and they are subdued by the use of a weapon they may just think twice before pulling some crap like that again.

3)The when to shoot issue is a concern to me because I would hate to see them shoot someone just because they're an idiot. But on the other hand if they don't shoot and someone dies because they didn't then what?? I know for me personally if they had a shot and didn't take it and my child died then there would be lawsuits against every department and agency involved.
Why let there be a hostage situation if there doesn't have to be? Why put young lives in jeoprady just because someone thinks they can make some nutjob think he was right and everything will be ok??
So many times you hear the parents of the victims ask "why did this have to happen"? "Why didn't they do more to protect the kids at school?"

4) Yes we do need every available adult helping to get the kids to safety no argument there. But I don't see a weapons carrying teacher adding to the danger that is already going on. The teacher with the weapon is going to much more proficient at handling that weapon than the student who snatched it from his dads cabinet and his/her chance of hitting a student is dramatically reduced compared to the kid.

5)Why would a student not feel more safe when a licensed professional is bringing a gun to school--If I had my choice between a former cop carrying and a pimply faced kid-I would pick the cop----So if I get this right the cops who are at the front doors are just scaring the kids more than they are making them feel safe and protected?? Cops carry their guns in holsters,these holsters generally go around the waist but they are also available as shoulder holsters which can be hidden by a suitcoat---Students probably wouldn't even know which teacher,if any,was carrying a weapon.

6)True-Real life is not that simple and all problems cannot be solved in a half an hour--And your last statement here is not totally accurate--Many parents and students feel safer because there are cops at the front door along with metal detectors---Guns are already in the schools----We just need to decide if we want those guns to be in the hands of kids who don't have much sense or in the hands of trained professionals!

7)Yes many teachers go off the deep end.Many doctors go off the deep end. Many elected officials go off the deep end. But given our news selection over the past few years the rate of teachers shooting up a school hasn't even registered whereas the rate of students shooting up a school has become so common it's nowhere as horrific as it was when Columbine happened.

1) The Johnny I was talking about was innocent bystander Johnny who the teacher could not protect in time. Not the perp. Johnny gets shot and who do the parents look to blame? The armed teacher who was supposed to be the one who kept the kids from being shot in school. Even trained professionals can make mistakes in circumstances that are unpredictable, so then you have Jimmy who was killed by commando teachers gunfire. Oops, that wasn't supposed to happen. Imagine the liability. There would be no room for error when that teacher is carrying a gun to protect. What is the point if kids get killed anyways? How about if the gun accidentally goes off in a classroom/lunchroom full of students? Sheesh, what teacher would want to take on that responsibility?

And take it a step further, the perps parents say hey...you could have shot him in the leg...or it was just a water pistol (or a cel phone he was carrying). Even arresting officers of the law are often placed under scrutiny when they kill a criminal during an arrest. Teachers would face even more. And so would the school district. if a shooting happens and there was no way to prevent it, there is not much they can do. If there was an armed teacher and they didn't effectively stop it and even ONE person was hurt...heads would be rolling. I can't imagine any district taking on that responsibility.

2 and 3) We are talking teachers here. They are paid to educate, not have the heavy responsibility of protecting all of the student body because they are armed. I want good educators, not educators who are good with a gun.

4) You are over stating the real danger of school violence (which is rare) in relation to the added danger of having a loaded gun on school property (increasing the odds of school violence).

5) I do not believe most kids feel unsafe in school right now. Parents are the ones who feel unsafe.

6) big difference between a cop whose sole job is security and a teacher who is 'part time' commando.

7) You do realize in the last few weeks, only one of four shootings came from a student. The rest were adults who were not even affiliated with the school in any way. There is no evidence an armed teacher would have made any difference in any of the cases. (and an armed teacher most certainly NEVER would happpen in an Amish school anyways) If anything, armed teachers in those situations may have aggravated it and/or resulted in more people killed.

And lastly, the rate of a student shooting up a school is not at all commonplace. We hear about every single incident. There really are not that many. And it is certainly not less horrific that it was when Columbine happened.

 

[castleview]

g) Some teachers actually go off the deep end too, having the right to carry a loaded gun on them is not a good idea.

My mom's heading for teacher retirement. I'm just imagining her pulling out a gun, pointing at a disrespectful student and saying "I SAID SIT DOWN." Sorry to get off topic.

I'm not for gun control, I think Rosie O'Donnell is terribly idealistic on that issue, but arming teachers isn't the answer. Most schools have a resource officer and evolving lockdown procedures/drills. That works a lot better for me. JMO

 

[MrsPete]

Well, if there is a program like this in place, I can understand your thinking. As far as i know, up here, we would be waiting for the police to show up with their guns, while everyone else ran for cover.

I don't think having a few (maybe not every teacher) guns at the school is a bad thing. (example: security guards, police at the school, or even a principal or a few highly trained teachers)...

And you don't think that teachers would BECOME TARGETS because they're carrying guns?

 

[Boston Tea Party]

How many teachers would this even include? Are there a lot of teachers out there who are former police or military?

In my school there are several retired military and also some who serve in the reserves. I would say about 20% of the staff.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

And you don't think that teachers would BECOME TARGETS because they're carrying guns?

I don't think they would----I gave a reason for why in an earlier post---But my way of thinking is==If I am a teacher carrying a concealed weapon I would rather be the target than one of my students.
And someone isn't going to target a teacher just because they are carrying a concealed weapon--The targeting of a carrying teacher would be an attempt at continuing with the plan in place without having to worry about being stopped before maximum damage is done.

 

[DISUNC]

I am just thinking at some of the nuttier Teachers I had!!!!!!!!

A gun in a room full of kids IS ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING!!!!!!!