Armed Teachers?

[Pixiedust34]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend...I've just never seen Tobys Friend say anything positive ever about homeschoolers or homeschooling. I was being entirely sarcastic...

I've homeschooled for 16 years!

Thanks, Noodle. We homeschool and it's a pet peeve of mine to have people think that we're some sort of backwoods uneducated weirdos. : )

 

[Crankyshank]

Did anyone see Stephen Colbert's take on gun toting teachers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeIC0HaUPbU

 

[Cindy B]

Horrible idea.

As a soon to be teacher, this creates all types of problems.

There is a delicate brand of trust between teachers and students. If a student knew the teacher had a weapon, they could become distrustful quickly. Also, many school buildings have character education based initiatives that talk about trustworthiness, kindness and respect. As a teacher, you are not trusting your students, acting kind and being respectful if you pack heat!

Also, I had to say this, but I will be blunt--there are some teachers that should not be or remain in the profession and to give them a weapon.. is just scary. There are some mentally stable teachers out there, and to give them a deadly weapon is very scary to say the least!


Ex cops and former military aside, teachers should not be carrying weapons. Even if these specific individuals have speacialized firearms training, it does not mean that these teachers would NOT shoot unprovoked and such.

If the teachers start toting around weapons, what will happen to the students. I can just visualize a problem with studnets realizing this and taunting the teacher "Why don't you just shoot me?--You know you can." and messing with the teacher. (I may sound jaded, but I've been in enough behavior modification classrooms-(students with behavioral issues) that I can tell you that these students would "mess" with the teacher in order to get them to shoot the student. Students will manipulate that fact.

Worse yet, what if there was a fistfight with a student and teacher and the student reaches for the firearm? Again, I've seen students get physically restrained, so this is always a possibility--especially in the higher upper grades.

 

[chris1gill]

Personally? I think it's a lousy idea.... However, I'd like to see armed guards at every door of these schools.... it's too bad we live in times like this.....

 

[noodleknitter]

Thanks, Noodle. We homeschool and it's a pet peeve of mine to have people think that we're some sort of backwoods uneducated weirdos. : )

Well, we may be weirdos...

 

[Chicago526]

Yeah, lets not fix the problem of alienated kids with anger and implus control problems. Lets just shoot them when they finally snap. Terific plan!

For the record, beyond restricting certain types of asault rifles, I'm not anti-gun.

 

[Cindy B]

How many teachers would this even include? Are there a lot of teachers out there who are former police or military?

I know quite a few retired military individuals that have gone into teaching. There actually is quite a market for former military personnel to become teachers.

And fact aside, just because someone has been trained in the military how to shoot/use a firearm, it certainly doesn't mean that the person uses that skill everyday in military life. My sister has been in the military since 1987. The only firearms she has shot has been in basic training. Her skills are more office based (she does human resources work for the Army) instead of combat reliant missions. Her basic training was almost 20 years ago. I certainly wouldn't trust her judgement any more than any civilian!

 

[MrsPete]

My husband and I were talking about the new proposal to have teachers who are former cops and military be allowed to carry weapons to school. We just heard about after the Missouri school shooting.

I think this is a great idea. Given the rise in school shootings,I believe that an armed teacher will help limit the death toll from these occurances.

Has anyone else heard of this? What do you think?

It's absolutely insane on several levels:

1. The teacher would have to keep the gun on his person at all times -- it could never be left in a desk drawer, not even for five minutes. This would be a distraction to the students.

2. Students don't need to have a relationship based upon fear/intimidation with the teacher. If the teacher's carrying a gun, that's going to alter the teaching relationship.

3. Let's say you're a student, and you're planning a school shooting -- I know, it's a horrible thought. What's one of the first things you're going to do? You're going to make a list of the teachers who are allowed to carry guns. Why? Because you're going to make sure that you shoot them first before they can shoot you! Speaking only for myself, I'm not willing to carry a gun and get my name on that list.

4. Some students have a very strong distrust of teachers (and of anyone in an authority position). Some of those students will start to carry guns BECAUSE their teacher has a gun. In their minds, they'll NEED the gun to protect themselves from the teacher.

I'm NOT concerned about lack of training because -- as I understand it -- only teachers who are VERY well trained would be allowed to carry the guns. People like me, who can shoot a little but have no real training . . . we're not going to be eligible.

I wouldn't worry about this passing. We've been talking about it at my school this week, and I haven't found a single person who thinks it's a good idea.

 

[MrsPete]

There is no such thing as a teacher who knows how to handle the situation. Sorry, but that is an impossibility. These situations come out of nowhere and are highly tense and unpredictable. You cannot expect teachers (former whatever) to be effective educators and gun-toting hostage control too.

Btw, I am in full support of the right to bear arms in this country. This is NOT the answer to violence in schools.

I disagree. We have several teachers at our school who are former militaryofficers. They've had EXTENSIVE TRAINING, and I believe THEY are qualified to handle such a situation, and I would gladly trust them with my life.

I'm still against the whole idea, but I do think SOME teachers are qualified.

 

[tink&cinderella]

Hi

I am sure most of you know that us CDN's don't have the same gun laws as the States does.

Here guns are for hunters, criminals, army and police personell. The average person would in general not have a gun and if they do they have to be registered and I believe it goes into a hold for a period of time. You have to have a permit.

It would never occur to me that anyone in my neighbourhood (I live near a big city) would have a gun unless they are involved in something shady and/or illegal.

I don't believe in having guns around at all - and if the States had a similar policy in place as we do in CDN perhaps there would be a decline in school shootings, accidental shooting etc. ( I am not saying that there is no gun crime here - there is- but the gun violence is still minimal compared to the States) - most of our criminals obtain their guns from the States- and were there are guns there is usual violence and/or illegal activity such as drugs or gangs etc (here anyway)

I was petrified last year when I heard that in Florida people could shoot at you at will if you were on their property without their permission - or something like that. Holy Cow - imagine a loaded gun in the hands of a mentally ill individual.

IMHO if you want to minimize gun violence, then get rid of the guns and/or place restrictions on who can buy one. I always shake my head in disbelief when I see a gun section in some of the department stores. I find that unerving and very scary.

This is just my opinion.

Denise

 

[Kitty 34]

So as a substitute teacher, I not only have to figure out the teacher's lesson plans for the day, I have to figure out how to work his/her gun!!! Nah, I think teachers with guns just isn't the answer.

 

[debster812]

Add me to the list of those who thinks this is a bad, bad, bad idea. On many levels.

OP--why do you think this is a GREAT idea? Seriously, I'm not trying to be facetious, but the opinions here are overwhelmingly against your POV. I'm curious as to why you think this would be a great idea, and how having 1 or 2 armed individuals in schools with populations of 600+ are going to be that big a deterrent.

 

[basas]

It doesn't matter to me.

It is counter-intuitive to combat gun violence with guns. The people who are committing these acts are NUTS. They are most likely on a suicide mission, and would not be deterred in the least by knowing someone at the school is carrying a gun.

Denae

Although, they could possibly be stopped quicker if someone on campus had a gun, no?

 

[irishbosoxfan]

Add me to the list of those who thinks this is a bad, bad, bad idea. On many levels.

OP--why do you think this is a GREAT idea? Seriously, I'm not trying to be facetious, but the opinions here are overwhelmingly against your POV. I'm curious as to why you think this would be a great idea, and how having 1 or 2 armed individuals in schools with populations of 600+ are going to be that big a deterrent.

Ok to answer you- Having one or two armed individuals in a population of 600 would be acceptable because recent history has shown us that out of those 600 only one or two would actually be directly responsible for what is going down---the other 598 would be running for their lives and getting mowed down in the process.

In my mind I see my child being safer sitting in a classroom with a teacher who is armed because at least then they would have a fighting chance---The gunman is shooting to take out as many as possible and I believe that lessens the chance that they are going to go directly to where they know that their odds will be greatly reduced

How many investigative reports have been done that show the gunmen will go for the weakest and in situations such as this a classroom with students and a regular teacher is weaker than a classroom with students and an armed former cop.

I'm not saying let Mrs Dowd the 55 year old librarian who had never fired a gun before her first lesson a couple of months ago walk around with a gun---I'm saying the former cop or soldier who has solid trained experience. My understanding is that the gun would be on their person at all times holstered accessible to them if they should need it

Now a lot are going to say--"Well what's to stop a kid from taking it off them"...Well what's to stop a kid from taking it off the cop standing at the front door?? Which to some it seems it is perfectly accceptable to have that cop at the door--So why not in the classroom??

And any person who is in a school shooting it up had access to a weapon long before they met Mr.Cop and his weapon didn't even enter into their plans.

We always taught our kids that the cops are there to protect us-So I believe that a student would feel safer knowing that their teacher was a cop and is ready to help them if they should need it. If a student is resentful of a former cop being their teacher then there are other issues that need addressing.

I grew up in a military family. My dad was military along with an aunt,uncles,sister,bil,cousins and both my husbands. My dad would teach my sister and I take down moves in the living room---My first kickback bruise came when I was 11 and my uncle taught us to fire--My ex and current husband taught me CQC (close quarters combat).
I know I am at my safest while in the company of any of them.

To the poster who said her sister?? was military and only fired at Basic---I don't know how that could be because my DH has to go to the range twice a year to show that he can fire and he needs to pass with a rating of Expert or Marksman on both handgun and rifle---If he doesn't then he will no longer be allowed to be a soldier--Same goes for both my sister and Bil also.

There is a program available to soldiers where they will either send them to school for free or reduced(not sure which) so they can become teachers--I have heard of a similar program for police--Kind of goes with the Cop next door program that is available.

 

[RitaZ.]

I am absolutely against this.
How would they keep the guns accessible to theose they want to use them and inaccessible to others? ie: keep them out of the hands of disgruntled students?
Who will make the decision as to when to use lethal force?
Will the teachers/administrators be immune from liability should they decide to use the lethal force?
All of that said, I am not anti-gun.

Exactly!

Bad idea all around! It doesn't matter if the teachers have previous training using guns.
Let teachers do what they are trained to do, that is teach. I would not be happy if anything like this was even being considered as an option to supposedly "increase safety" in my children's schools. Who the heck came up with this?

 

[tiggersmom2]

Incredibly stupid idea. Add me to the list of parents who would homeschool if this ever came to fruitation.

 

[teacherforhi]

Although, they could possibly be stopped quicker if someone on campus had a gun, no?

I don't know about other states, but in NC, every school has a resource officer who has a gun. No need for me to carry one myself.

 

[Cindy B]

To the poster who said her sister?? was military and only fired at Basic---I don't know how that could be because my DH has to go to the range twice a year to show that he can fire and he needs to pass with a rating of Expert or Marksman on both handgun and rifle---If he doesn't then he will no longer be allowed to be a soldier--Same goes for both my sister and Bil also.

There is a program available to soldiers where they will either send them to school for free or reduced(not sure which) so they can become teachers--I have heard of a similar program for police--Kind of goes with the Cop next door program that is available.

I asked my sister once when the last time she had to shoot== and she said basic. She does human resource work for the Army as a full time Army person, not a civilian personnel or ANG. I know she does tons of paperwork, office stuff and such like that.

Maybe she misinterpreted my question, but her answer was Basic. I'm a civilian, so I have no idea what different grades/job descriptions need to do. I did ask her once what she would do if she wound up having to change job duties....or if she had to do a different position due to wartime. She said that she would basically be doing the same thing, but a different office (processing new hires/and such)

Again, I'm a civilian so I don't really know.

 

[RitaZ.]

I don't know about other states, but in NC, every school has a resource officer who has a gun. No need for me to carry one myself.

Same way in our county. They are real police officers, not security guards.

 

[Charade]

This is a better idea?

http://cbs11tv.com/topstories/local_story_278215806.html

Burleson Schools Training To Defend Against Gunmen

Jay Gormley
Reporting

(CBS 11 News) BURLESON In the City of Burleson, teachers are taking a 'September 11th' approach to safety. Norwood Elementary Principal Lisa Crane says the means to defend our schools can be found in the classrooms.

"Do we need to put armies in schools? I have a small army here," she said.

The Burleson Independent School District is training its’ teachers and students to fight back if a gunman walks into a classroom.

"Just because the gun goes off does not mean you can't still fight. You can still try to gain control of the situation where you can still get the children out," Lisa said.

The idea came about when, ‘then’ policeman, Greg Crane asked his wife, “What would you do?” Lisa didn't have an answer. "Crawling under a table and hoping and waiting for rescue is not a recipe for survival," Greg said.

With the help of fellow police officers and military friends, Greg trains teachers and students how to attack instead of standing idly by.

“The first rule of defense is to understand that everything in a classroom can be used as a weapon; a pencil, a book, scissors, picture frames, even a computer monitor," Greg said.

Greg’s wife agrees, saying, "Anything that will throw that person off for a minute and give those children a fighting chance."

Part of the course, called Critical Incident Response, involves a training video that shows students throwing objects and then rushing and tackling a gunman.

Greg teaches that, "Between the sight and the sound, the noise, the mayhem and the chaos… the gunman has to mentally deal with that. Which means he’s thinking of that and not about pulling the trigger?"

All 600 teachers in the Burleson ISD have been trained for Critical Incident Response and the district just received a $95,000 federal grant to train all of the students as well.


(CBS 11 News)