Are we "too loose" with the term hero?

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
Tina, you're not alone with this topic hitting a sore spot. I am appalled at the way the media, the campaigns and too many others are dragging the names & reputations of those who faithfully served their country through the muck and mire. This includes anyone who served in any capacity, during war or during peacetime. Veterans and those on active duty deserve better than this. I am sorry your were hurt by this thread. Maybe one day we will find a place of healing and common ground.

Abracadabra.....I just wanted to post and say that I could NOT have said any of the things you've posted on this thread any better I don't disagree with a single word of any of it.

 

[browneyes]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
I think if we were to use Webster's dictionary, then everyone at some point in time could qualify as a "hero". I do think however, that to do that diminishes those who take great individual risk for the sake of others.

I can't wait to read your thread diminishing Webster's Dictionary as a noted dictionary of worthy use.

Originally posted by DawnCt1
A hero IS some who displays great courage in the face of danger.

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Clearly running directly into enemy fire qualifies as great courage.

It's nice to see you're arguing with not only everyone else, but yourself as well.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Abracadabra.....I just wanted to post and say that I could NOT have said any of the things you've posted on this thread any better I don't disagree with a single word of any of it.

Thank you. At first, I thought to ignore the thread, until I read the misstatement about Max Cleland's service in Vietnam. While all veterans of that war are due honor and respect for their service to our country, Max Cleland did, after all, sacrifice an arm and both legs in his service ... and it WAS during combat. It just galls me that nearly 35 years later people continue to "spit" on the honor and integrity of those who served in Vietnam. For me, that is a huge sore spot.

My apologies for getting overwrought. I probably need to step away and uncinch my undies.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by browneyes
I can't wait to read your thread diminishing Webster's Dictionary as a noted dictionary of worthy use.

It's nice to see you're arguing with not only everyone else, but yourself as well.

Thanks for the moment of laughter. I needed that right now.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Hey Abracadbra,

It's okay to have cinched undies. Nothing does that to me faster than something that hits me in my sore spots especially if it touches on my hero of a husband. Thank you for the lovely post about the media and campaigns. I couldn't agree more. It's a shame what is going on in this world and everyday average people are getting caught in the crossfire.

Tina

 

[Abracadabra]

Thank you, Tina. You are too kind.

Topics like this hit way too close to my heart and since I tend to wear it on my sleeve... well, let's just say that cinched undies are not uncommon for me on this topic -- especially since this whole campaign nonsense started.

I don't understand the fascination of reopening old wounds with the sledgehammer approach being used lately. What's lost in all this is not just a debate of the important issues facing all Americans today, but also our national dignity and respect.

We (meaning the general public) cannot continue to tolerate the continued abuse and disrespect to men and women who have honorably served their country in the armed forces. I would challenge everyone to begin writing, calling or emailing both campaigns and any media that you know is participating to DEMAND, not ask, but DEMAND that they all stop these deliberate, malicious and unjustified attacks on honorable veterans. I believe if enough voices are heard they may actually listen. Maybe I am just entertaining a fantasy, but I've got to believe that there is a way to end this nonsense.

If we fail to treat those who faithfully served their country with dignity and respect, then how can we ask anyone in the future to make that sacrifice?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Abracadabra

I don't understand the fascination of reopening old wounds with the sledgehammer approach being used lately. What's lost in all this is not just a debate of the important issues facing all Americans today, but also our national dignity and respect.

We (meaning the general public) cannot continue to tolerate the continued abuse and disrespect to men and women who have honorably served their country in the armed forces. I would challenge everyone to begin writing, calling or emailing both campaigns and any media that you know is participating to DEMAND, not ask, but DEMAND that they all stop these deliberate, malicious and unjustified attacks on honorable veterans. I believe if enough voices are heard they may actually listen. Maybe I am just entertaining a fantasy, but I've got to believe that there is a way to end this nonsense.

If we fail to treat those who faithfully served their country with dignity and respect, then how can we ask anyone in the future to make that sacrifice?

I totally agree with you. However, as history as shown us, that not all that serve this country in the military have done so with complete honor (or faithfully to borrow your words). I'd like to think that we can judge the individual without dragging a whole bunch of others into the fray with them. And when someone (like Kerry) is using his military experience as a crucial role in his bid for the highest office in this country, he better be darn sure he's telling the truth. Not his version of the truth but what actually happened. It's pretty clear that there are some inconsistencies and outright untruths to his version of his experiences. But he can't back away from it now. If people who support him can live with those inconsistencies and untruths, that's their choice, but they can't be ignored either. I really don't care what either one of them did 35 years (for the most part) but when one of them states that their military experience was pivotal in shaping the person they are today, then they shouldn't be surprised when it gets scrutinized.

 

[faithinkarma]

Which untruths are you talking about? If you only count the men who were actually on the boats on the day of the famous SBV incident, the men back Kerry's story outnumber the men who do not by two to one. As do all the official reports.

Or did you mean when O'Neill said that they were never within 50 miles of Cambodia until the tape of him telling President Nixon that he was in Cambodia surfaced? At which point he promptly changed his story to say that they did go to the Cambodian border.

 

[DawnCt1]

Prior to the invasion of Iraq, Two marines were shot on Failaka Island in Kuwait. This was during a training exercise when the marines were basically unarmed.DH was on the helicopter that retrieved them, and while under fire provided trauma care on the ground and in the air. I think that was pretty heroic but he feels he was doing his job. Who he does think is heroic however, and I would certainly agree, was the young Lt. who, with nothing but a side arm, (hand gun) charged the terrorists who were well armed with automatic weapons, and drove them off. My DH in his action report made sure that the report included the incredible courage of a young officer, whose actions certainly spared the lives of the rest of his marines. While I agree that we can see our fighting men and women in heroic terms, there are feats of incredible heroism which shouldn't be confused with doing your job bravely.

 

[Saffron]

Abracadabra, lovemygoofy ...

You are both absolutely correct! I love your posts on this thread and couldn't agree more.

 

[stevenpensacola]

IMO, a hero is someone who places his/her life on the life for someone else.

Getting hurt/killed just because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time does not make you a hero. People who were at work (not the rescue personel) in the World Trade Center on 9-11 are not heroes just because they died tragically.

 

[Paradise]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
A hero IS some who displays great courage in the face of danger. Achievemens and qualities of character, while admirable, do not make one a hero. To use the term so loosely diminishes those who are true heros; fire fighters for instance who ran into the WTC, unsure that they would ever return.

I wonder if you would consider the president a hero since volunteered to fight the Viet Cong in Alabama?

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by Paradise
I wonder if you would consider the president a hero since volunteered to fight the Viet Cong in Alabama?

Not nice, paradise

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by stevenpensacola
IMO, a hero is someone who places his/her life on the life for someone else.

Getting hurt/killed just because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time does not make you a hero. People who were at work (not the rescue personel) in the World Trade Center on 9-11 are not heroes just because they died tragically.

I absolutely agree. My brother was in one of the first Special Forces units to serve in Afghanastan. Again, he served bravely but there were men there who were true heros by every definition of the word. I think one's peers, commanders, unit leaders, etc are in the best position to make that determination.
I don't think that I am dismissing my brother's service or DH's service by pointing out the difference.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Prior to the invasion of Iraq, Two marines were shot on Failaka Island in Kuwait. This was during a training exercise when the marines were basically unarmed.DH was on the helicopter that retrieved them, and while under fire provided trauma care on the ground and in the air. I think that was pretty heroic but he feels he was doing his job. Who he does think is heroic however, and I would certainly agree, was the young Lt. who, with nothing but a side arm, (hand gun) charged the terrorists who were well armed with automatic weapons, and drove them off. My DH in his action report made sure that the report included the incredible courage of a young officer, whose actions certainly spared the lives of the rest of his marines. While I agree that we can see our fighting men and women in heroic terms, there are feats of incredible heroism which shouldn't be confused with doing your job bravely.

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective, but I don't see much difference between your young Lt.'s actions and the actions of Max Cleland in Vietnam rescuing wounded comrades. You consider this unnamed Lt. a hero; most other people consider Max Cleland a hero. Both men saved the lives of fellow soldiers. Why, in your mind, is one a hero and the other not?

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
I suppose it's all a matter of perspective, but I don't see much difference between your young Lt.'s actions and the actions of Max Cleland in Vietnam rescuing wounded comrades. You consider this unnamed Lt. a hero; most other people consider Max Cleland a hero. Both men saved the lives of fellow soldiers. Why, in your mind, is one a hero and the other not?

If Max Cleland received his citation in a different action and was cited for saving his comrades lives, then he is a hero. If you are referring to the grenade accident, that was a tragic accident, not a heroic incident.

 

[totalia]

yes, I think its used too loosely now. We've lost the real meaning of the word when people start calling a good junior high school teacher, a hero.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by totalia
yes, I think its used too loosely now. We've lost the real meaning of the word when people start calling a good junior high school teacher, a hero.

You are right. He may fit in with one of the Webster Dictionary's definitions, but it ends up making "hero" a meaningless word.

 

[Maleficent13]

Excuse the comment from the post-modernist English major, but words mean whatever the individual wants them to mean. If you want to reserve the word "hero" to mean only those exhalted people you deem worthy, then by all means, do so. I, in turn, will call those whom I deem worthy "hero". My definition and your definition do not have to match, nor do we have to agree on each other's choices.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
My definition and your definition do not have to match, nor do we have to agree on each other's choices.

Excellent point! I completely agree with you. Thank you for pointing this out.