Are WE to Blame?

In listening to this week’s segment on the issue of whether or not we know too much, a thought struck me: are we, the fan community, to blame for the perceived decrease in Disney’s quality? Now, don’t get me wrong, Disney is a company whose founder was a believer in the idea that “quality will out” and so should not be taken off the hook if this thought were to bear fruit, but… Maybe it is partially our own fault for the loss of some of the stuff we’ve all lamented. On a larger scale, maybe it’s Disney World’s guests in general.

I’ve often heard Pete lament the loss of the “Disney Difference ™” and I too feel that there has been less of an effort from the cast members in terms of going above and beyond. We’ve heard tales of how these little special touches that used to surprise people have just vanished; that CM’s used to be much more helpful in making a vacation a truly memorable experience for the guests and that now that type of stuff is vanishing. I’ve read how people lament the loss of cast members treating a birthday boy or girl to a free dessert or a newlywed couple to a glass of champagne, and while these things do still happen, it seems to a lot of folks that they happen less often.

We’ve seen the loss of personalized and individual experiences fading, Miyuki in Japan, the candy lady, used to give the fondant animals to children to take home, then it was reduced to only taking suggesting and not distributing the candy, now she’s gone altogether. The paintbrushes on Tom Sawyer’s Island, waking Tinkerbelle, shouting “Andy!,” all of these are not urban legends of a bygone era in the Disney parks.

Sure it is easy to chalk all of this up to Disney being cheap and trying to show record profits quarter over quarter, and there is certainly an element of that going on. But I wonder if the fault, dear Brutus, lay not in the stars, but in ourselves.

Most of us came to the boards for one of a couple of reasons. Some to share stories about recent trips, some of us to seek guidance in purchasing DVC or how to best plan a vacation, some to discuss Imagineering; the list of reasons for each of us to come here is long and varied, but those reasons all share one common element, the exchange of information. This is not inherently a bad thing and many of us have been better able to enjoy the parks because of that very knowledgebase so readily available, but maybe we all overshared. Maybe we all let everyone in on things that were meant to be private, magical moments just for us. Maybe that very sharing made it impossible for Disney to do it for others.

Consider this: A cast member sees a young man who is really upset about just missing the height requirement for Space Mountain, which all of his siblings have cleared. The kid is obviously dejected and on the verge of tears when the cast member suddenly remembers that Buzz Lightyear was on the lookout for a special agent to take on a mission for him. The cast member then gives Mom a FP and says you need to take him over there right now, and he can’t wait in line because this mission is of utmost importance so show them that security pas and they’ll get you to the front of the line.. The kid and mom hurry off the Buzz and now the kid has a great story instead of a dashed hoped. Mom comes home, writes a glowing trip report and let’s folks know that if your kid can’t get on Space Mountain, the CM’s can give you a FP for Space Ranger Spin. And so it spreads, something that was a one off decision made in the moment is not an expectation. Is this a simplified version of what happens? Is this perhaps a bad example? Sure, but I think that it illustrates the point. Let’s look at something a little darker and a whole lot more likely.

Mom and dad are out eating at Tutto Italia when mom orders an item that comes with mushrooms and asks that they be left off, as she has an allergy. The waiter makes a note, but forgets to ring it in, or the cook is swamped and somehow misses it, in any event the sauce is prepared with mushrooms and Mom has a bad reaction, eventually needing medical attention and an unpleasant evening getting acquainted with the lovely décor of the bathroom in the Port Orleans Riverside studio in which her family is staying. Disney comps not only the meal, but are offering a comped stay at a resort in the future, stating that it was an unconscionable screw-up and they are mortified and want to make sure that she’s ok and able to come back in the future and enjoy a trip on them. Does this sound crazy and overly generous of Disney? Perhaps, but there are plenty of stories of a similar nature out there that indicate that stuff like this has happened.

Mom comes home and writes about this on the boards, and it is read by another mom, Gina Handout, who is always looking to get something for nothing. Gina Handout dines at a variety of on-site restaurants and at each one has a litany of special requests for each item ordered: no cherries on the sundaes, substitutes for every vegetable, etc… And when one dish arrives incorrectly, she catches it immediately and demands to see a manager. Though no one has actually ingested the item in question, the fact that her precious baby MIGHT have done so is enough to warrant Disney doing something to “make it right.” She screams, carries on, and freaks out, secure in the knowledge that she knows what they CAN do; after all she’s read about it online.

Every time we share something special or unique that a cast member did for us, or every way in which Disney goes out of its way to make our vacations magical or make up for a mistake on their part, we raise the level of expectations. If folks read about something someone else got and then they themselves don’t get it, they feel cheated, and you can’t deny that when you are dropping several thousand dollars on a trip (something most folks only spend on cars and houses), there is a certain level of entitlement that is understandable.

I’m not immune to this. I’ve read numerous stories on this board and others about how Disney responded in a medical emergency; how a cast member arranged transport to the Celebration Hospital and had Disney pick up the cost of the cab or did something else special for a person who was sick or injured during their vacation. Imagine my surprise when I hobbled down to the main lobby at 3 in the morning sweating profusely and barely able to speak due to what had yet to be diagnosed as a severe case of strep throat, and was handed directions to the hospital and a phone number for a taxi company. My father had driven down and so I roused him and he drove me over, which wasn’t that big of a deal, except it made me wonder why I didn’t get that same level of care and attention. Did Disney OWE me a ride to the hospital, no, but I felt entitled to one, and I’m not usually that kind of a person.

I think that we need to understand that if we keep blabbing to one another about all of the special ways in which Disney created magic for us, there is less of likelihood that they will be able to do it again for someone else in the future. Rather than face those dashed expectations, I believe that Disney is setting the bar lower on purpose, so that they can raise it only slightly and still come across as having gone out of their way for us. The issue of scale is a major problem for Disney and you can hear it all the time when folks talk about how the parks are so crowded.

Maybe if we all stopped LOOKING for ways in which Disney can make our trips even more special, and instead just enjoyed the vacation, we could all find the magic again and be surprised when something special does happen. Well, that’s my $0.10 (it’s a Disney board, I had to jack up the price of my thoughts to keep pace with the parks), what does everyone else think?



I understand and agree to a point with what you are saying just don't forget Traditions was once 2 weeks of training and now it's 1/2 day. Hard to share the Pixie Dust if no one has shown you what it is! I do think the problems ho beyond us. CAstmember issues now are bubbling up because of lower staffing which can be far more stressful.

Having said that, I still remember an awful morning at Boardwalk Bakery when a woman shouted at the poor cashier because she would not arrange to have her purchase delivered to her Villa. "I AM AN OWNER. I PAID $40,000 FOR SERVICE AND I EXPECT TO BE.......bla bla bla. My dear hubs stepped up as only a New Yorker could and asked....."if I give you $40,000 will you shut up and leave". Applause followed. Sometime we burn the Pixie Dust out of the Castmembers.

We cannot forget all the big, and little things which have been taken away. Final straw on a long list for DH......

Lights of Winter


Now we hug a Mouse in California. They take better care of him out there.
 
I don't think it's the cast members who no longer go above and beyond.

I think it's WDW that no longer goes above and beyond. That comes from the top - all the cuts, all the sameness in the shops and on the restaurant menus. The unkempt restrooms and rides that desperately need updating and/or maintenance all contribute to the magic ebbing away. My first visit was in 1995 and my last was in 2012. We did not visit for a period of about 5 years prior to 2012. The obvious stagnation was so overwhelming when we last visited that we probably won't be headed back any time soon.

Lights of Winter was my all time favorite oooooh moment at EPCOT. It's gone and for me, that magic is gone, never to return. I just think that WDW is no longer in the business of making magic.... They are now, first and foremost, in the business of making money...and let the magic be damned.
 
Not much.

The only thing I think the internet may have actually killed is the free personalized menus and divers with messages they used to have at Coral Reef. Once that got out, since it was a small operation, it got overwhelmed. Plus people screaming at the manager when they were late to their ADR and found out the diver was no longer available because they'd run past the scheduled time. It's gone now. I think it might have also increased the likelihood of getting a towel animal, since I know the values usually just park one in the window now so folks won't get mad that they didn't get one.

Sorry, but no, the ripples aren't that big most of the time.

My understanding re: Coral Reef was that these things stopped when a new manager took over; the new manager was unwilling or unable to continue to offer these special touches.

Out of every 100 people who book & plan a Disney vacation, maybe five of them will look for an internet forum to discuss it. When Disney began offering promotions like heavily discounted rooms, free dining, etc... that's when I think the park attendance numbers reached a point at which some of the smaller "magic" fell by the wayside.
 

I think the better question is why Disney fans feel the need to find reasons to blame themselves for Disney's shortcomings. I roll my eyes every time someone claims Disney was "forced" to institute FP+ because of all the people who "abused" the old system. :rolleyes:

It reminds me of battered spouse syndrome, where the spouse is so emotionally invested in their relationship that they can't see how they are being abused by their marriage partner.
 
OP,
Great post! I agree with what you are saying, and have thought the same thing recently. One thing that has stood out to me are our recent trips with "newbies". My father in law, who always said he never wanted to go to Disney, finally caved and joined us last Feb. He raved about the trip for months! Couldn't beleive everything that was done to ensure he, the guest, had the best time possible. We actually ended up booking a huge family trip (25 of us) for Thanksgiving. FIL once again had an amazing time. We had around 7-8 newbies on that trip and again, they couldn't believe how amazing Disney was. While I felt CM attitude had declined, or my trip didn't seem as magical as past trips, there was no doubt that to our newbies the magic was as alive and well as when we fell in love with Disney. The thing is...they had no expectations because they hadn't read about all the things that MIGHT happen.

Also, I can admit that my family has been on the disappointed end when something we read about didn't work out for us. Waking Tinkerbelle, for example. My son wanted so badly to be able to wake Tinkerbelle. We were the first family at rope drop. We were the only family standing there for a while. Just minutes before a CM showed up one other family joined us. My son talked about wanting to be the first person to get to the store so he could wake Tinkerbelle the entire time we were waiting. A CM walked up, chatted with both my family and the other family for a bit. Then out of the blue she asked the little girl with the other family if she wanted to wake Tinkerbelle. The little girl excitedly shrieked "yes", and I saw the complete disappointment in my son's face. The other family gave us an "I am sorry look", and went on their way, even tho they knew that's what we were waiting to do. I could have been angry. I could have made a scene. But what's the point.... These kinds of in park moments are meant to be surprises for guests. Instead of making it into a big deal I redirected my son's attention to something else. I said "how cool would it be if we were one of the first families on Peter Pan?". So we talked about that instead of the disappointment and as soon as the rope dropped we ran over to ride Pan. We 're indeed the first family to ride it that day, but I had prepared my son that we may not be the very first family, but we'll be one of the first few. I know there are parents out there that would have made a huge scene in our situation. I know this because I've seen it happen again and again in Disney. In my opinion this is definitely one of the reasons some of these things are discontinued. Better to not offer it at all, than to constantly have guests angry over it.

There have been other things we read about that we tried and didn't succeed at. My husband went to City Hall to ask if they had selected a veteran for the day yet. They hadn't, but informed him that he couldn't just walk in and ask to be veteran of the day, even tho I had read about this very practice on several different Disney fan boards. They told him a veteran had to be randomly picked. I read about people asking to be veteran of the day just weeks before our trip, and a few times after our trip. Unfortunately for us it didn't work out. We still made it a point to watch the flag retreat that day. While waiting for the flag retreat to begin I chatted up a CM. I explained what had happened that morning and asked when they changed the procedure. She was shocked that we were told we couldn't ask and she tried to offer for DH to be veteran of the day on a different day. We weren't going to be in MK again that trip so we graciously declined. Sometimes guests just have to know how to move on and not let these things affect their vacation. Sadly, many guests can't and their tantrums ruin some of these potential "magical moments" for everyone else.

Sorry so long. Lol. But I truly believe some of the cutbacks, not all, but some, are directly related to unrealistic guest expectations.
 
I read these boards and see people have what to me are bizarre high expectations in a vacation. I want nice accommodations and friendly helpful staff. I don't go looking for special "touches" or treatment. I think the expectations are overboard. The things you've mentioned that are gone! Who cares? When I go I just want to have a nice relaxing vacation. Anything above and beyond that is a pleasant surprise. If things disappear it could be due to unrealistic demand and pushy overuse of special experiences.
 
In listening to this week’s segment on the issue of whether or not we know too much, a thought struck me: are we, the fan community, to blame for the perceived decrease in Disney’s quality? Now, don’t get me wrong, Disney is a company whose founder was a believer in the idea that “quality will out” and so should not be taken off the hook if this thought were to bear fruit, but… Maybe it is partially our own fault for the loss of some of the stuff we’ve all lamented. On a larger scale, maybe it’s Disney World’s guests in general.

I’ve often heard Pete lament the loss of the “Disney Difference ™” and I too feel that there has been less of an effort from the cast members in terms of going above and beyond. We’ve heard tales of how these little special touches that used to surprise people have just vanished; that CM’s used to be much more helpful in making a vacation a truly memorable experience for the guests and that now that type of stuff is vanishing. I’ve read how people lament the loss of cast members treating a birthday boy or girl to a free dessert or a newlywed couple to a glass of champagne, and while these things do still happen, it seems to a lot of folks that they happen less often.

We’ve seen the loss of personalized and individual experiences fading, Miyuki in Japan, the candy lady, used to give the fondant animals to children to take home, then it was reduced to only taking suggesting and not distributing the candy, now she’s gone altogether. The paintbrushes on Tom Sawyer’s Island, waking Tinkerbelle, shouting “Andy!,” all of these are not urban legends of a bygone era in the Disney parks.

Sure it is easy to chalk all of this up to Disney being cheap and trying to show record profits quarter over quarter, and there is certainly an element of that going on. But I wonder if the fault, dear Brutus, lay not in the stars, but in ourselves.

Most of us came to the boards for one of a couple of reasons. Some to share stories about recent trips, some of us to seek guidance in purchasing DVC or how to best plan a vacation, some to discuss Imagineering; the list of reasons for each of us to come here is long and varied, but those reasons all share one common element, the exchange of information. This is not inherently a bad thing and many of us have been better able to enjoy the parks because of that very knowledgebase so readily available, but maybe we all overshared. Maybe we all let everyone in on things that were meant to be private, magical moments just for us. Maybe that very sharing made it impossible for Disney to do it for others.

Consider this: A cast member sees a young man who is really upset about just missing the height requirement for Space Mountain, which all of his siblings have cleared. The kid is obviously dejected and on the verge of tears when the cast member suddenly remembers that Buzz Lightyear was on the lookout for a special agent to take on a mission for him. The cast member then gives Mom a FP and says you need to take him over there right now, and he can’t wait in line because this mission is of utmost importance so show them that security pas and they’ll get you to the front of the line.. The kid and mom hurry off the Buzz and now the kid has a great story instead of a dashed hoped. Mom comes home, writes a glowing trip report and let’s folks know that if your kid can’t get on Space Mountain, the CM’s can give you a FP for Space Ranger Spin. And so it spreads, something that was a one off decision made in the moment is not an expectation. Is this a simplified version of what happens? Is this perhaps a bad example? Sure, but I think that it illustrates the point. Let’s look at something a little darker and a whole lot more likely.

Mom and dad are out eating at Tutto Italia when mom orders an item that comes with mushrooms and asks that they be left off, as she has an allergy. The waiter makes a note, but forgets to ring it in, or the cook is swamped and somehow misses it, in any event the sauce is prepared with mushrooms and Mom has a bad reaction, eventually needing medical attention and an unpleasant evening getting acquainted with the lovely décor of the bathroom in the Port Orleans Riverside studio in which her family is staying. Disney comps not only the meal, but are offering a comped stay at a resort in the future, stating that it was an unconscionable screw-up and they are mortified and want to make sure that she’s ok and able to come back in the future and enjoy a trip on them. Does this sound crazy and overly generous of Disney? Perhaps, but there are plenty of stories of a similar nature out there that indicate that stuff like this has happened.

Mom comes home and writes about this on the boards, and it is read by another mom, Gina Handout, who is always looking to get something for nothing. Gina Handout dines at a variety of on-site restaurants and at each one has a litany of special requests for each item ordered: no cherries on the sundaes, substitutes for every vegetable, etc… And when one dish arrives incorrectly, she catches it immediately and demands to see a manager. Though no one has actually ingested the item in question, the fact that her precious baby MIGHT have done so is enough to warrant Disney doing something to “make it right.” She screams, carries on, and freaks out, secure in the knowledge that she knows what they CAN do; after all she’s read about it online.

Every time we share something special or unique that a cast member did for us, or every way in which Disney goes out of its way to make our vacations magical or make up for a mistake on their part, we raise the level of expectations. If folks read about something someone else got and then they themselves don’t get it, they feel cheated, and you can’t deny that when you are dropping several thousand dollars on a trip (something most folks only spend on cars and houses), there is a certain level of entitlement that is understandable.

I’m not immune to this. I’ve read numerous stories on this board and others about how Disney responded in a medical emergency; how a cast member arranged transport to the Celebration Hospital and had Disney pick up the cost of the cab or did something else special for a person who was sick or injured during their vacation. Imagine my surprise when I hobbled down to the main lobby at 3 in the morning sweating profusely and barely able to speak due to what had yet to be diagnosed as a severe case of strep throat, and was handed directions to the hospital and a phone number for a taxi company. My father had driven down and so I roused him and he drove me over, which wasn’t that big of a deal, except it made me wonder why I didn’t get that same level of care and attention. Did Disney OWE me a ride to the hospital, no, but I felt entitled to one, and I’m not usually that kind of a person.

I think that we need to understand that if we keep blabbing to one another about all of the special ways in which Disney created magic for us, there is less of likelihood that they will be able to do it again for someone else in the future. Rather than face those dashed expectations, I believe that Disney is setting the bar lower on purpose, so that they can raise it only slightly and still come across as having gone out of their way for us. The issue of scale is a major problem for Disney and you can hear it all the time when folks talk about how the parks are so crowded.

Maybe if we all stopped LOOKING for ways in which Disney can make our trips even more special, and instead just enjoyed the vacation, we could all find the magic again and be surprised when something special does happen. Well, that’s my $0.10 (it’s a Disney board, I had to jack up the price of my thoughts to keep pace with the parks), what does everyone else think?

Without reading the responses to this so far, here's what I have to offer.

Yes, as the sharing of information continues, there will be a let down if something magical doesn't happen. Now, that being said, your vacation is what you make of it. The main reason that people get no magic is when others come home and say "Get ____ button and the CMs WILL or HAVE TO DO X,Y,Z for you". There are CMs, management and everyone else on this and other boards that read these posts. Word gets out and yes, they'll be more selective. If something is made to be standard, then it isn't magical anymore, is it?

If you go as a couple in their 30's or a family with youngsters, you have to remind yourself of 1 main thing: I'M NOT GOING TO BE THE ONLY ONE IN THE PARK. This should start to become a new golden rule.

If parents can teach their kids this, and we as adults can remember this, we'll all have better vacations.

Sure, it's great to come on here and read about the magical things that happened, but even with the details listed, there's still always going to be more to the story that was left out. Those details are more than likely the biggest key factors as to why the magic happened.

As the OP stated, someone who wants something for nothing is going to read what they want, nitpick and insist/demand the absolute best treatment in a situation that doesn't call for it and then come back here and run a rant that is childish at best.

The fact is, there is still plenty of magic left in Disney. The CMs are wonderful, and remember, they are people like you and me. They have good and bad days. That lady that came on here with the bad review with the nasty CM, yeah, she was 2 people ahead of you. The CM hadn't recovered yet from her and they weren't "at their best" just yet.

Your Disney guest aura follows you. Think of it as a 6th sense. If you come in expecting ANYTHING, you're gonna get burned. If you take every scenario given on these boards that someone experienced and try to repeat it for yourself, you'll be disappointed. The best you can do is remind yourself that you aren't the only one in the park and just make your OWN magic and maybe while doing that, you'll have a little magic thrown your way.
 
...I think I like going without huge expectations so that when special things happen, they really are special and not expected. We're just one family out of thousands that visit, I don't expect anything more than anyone else. But sometimes not having those expectations means you get treated to extra magic.

This is us. You want friendly service at check in and mousekeeping and dining. I guess that's what I expect and hope for. The rest is gravy. Expectations soooo often lead to disappointment. Society is different. Entitlement is rampant, unfortunately.

I don't think it's the cast members who no longer go above and beyond.

I think it's WDW that no longer goes above and beyond. That comes from the top - all the cuts, all the sameness in the shops and on the restaurant menus. The unkempt restrooms and rides that desperately need updating and/or maintenance all contribute to the magic ebbing away ... I just think that WDW is no longer in the business of making magic.... They are now, first and foremost, in the business of making money...and let the magic be damned.

They are a business and they are in the business to make money. However, much of what we are talking about isn't that expensive. Shortening their training to 1 day instead of what it used to be may save initial dollars, but does damage in the long run. However, on paper, it is monetary savings. Sad, but true. Keeping those you employ motivated, trained, feeling competent has value more than just dollars. Big business often forgets that until it comes back to bite them in the tookis...and it will. One day something will happen and Disney will have to regroup/retrain. Don't know when, but it always happens.
 
In this "Gimme culture" I do agree that envy, jealousy, and covetousness has to make it hard for Disney to do extra special things when there are thousands of others standing in line to throw a fit if someone gets Pixie Dust, and they don't.

That's my guess as to why things like waking Tink or Princess of the Day at Akershus/CRT are no longer done.
 
I read these boards and see people have what to me are bizarre high expectations in a vacation. I want nice accommodations and friendly helpful staff. I don't go looking for special "touches" or treatment. I think the expectations are overboard. The things you've mentioned that are gone! Who cares? When I go I just want to have a nice relaxing vacation. Anything above and beyond that is a pleasant surprise. If things disappear it could be due to unrealistic demand and pushy overuse of special experiences.

^^^ THIS!

I also think that some of this stuff still goes on...but much less for the people who "expect" it. CM's can tell the difference between someone who is having a birthday...and someone who proclaims they are having a birthday, hoping to get something special.
 
I don't think it's the cast members who no longer go above and beyond.

I think it's WDW that no longer goes above and beyond. That comes from the top - all the cuts, all the sameness in the shops and on the restaurant menus. The unkempt restrooms and rides that desperately need updating and/or maintenance all contribute to the magic ebbing away. My first visit was in 1995 and my last was in 2012. We did not visit for a period of about 5 years prior to 2012. The obvious stagnation was so overwhelming when we last visited that we probably won't be headed back any time soon.

Lights of Winter was my all time favorite oooooh moment at EPCOT. It's gone and for me, that magic is gone, never to return. I just think that WDW is no longer in the business of making magic.... They are now, first and foremost, in the business of making money...and let the magic be damned.




Agree 1000%.



Ok, I'm going to say it and you can beat me up.

I do not understand how people on these boards defend Disney's filthy restrooms. Reason often given is because people are more messy than in the past.

Perhaps we are less tidy. Doesn't matter. Disney is still responsible for ensuring these facilities are clean. Not rocket science. Get more staff, garbage bags and Clorox in there!

Thank you. I now return control of this thread to the more concise. :-)
 
In listening to this week’s segment on the issue of whether or not we know too much, a thought struck me: are we, the fan community, to blame for the perceived decrease in Disney’s quality? Now, don’t get me wrong, Disney is a company whose founder was a believer in the idea that “quality will out” and so should not be taken off the hook if this thought were to bear fruit, but… Maybe it is partially our own fault for the loss of some of the stuff we’ve all lamented. On a larger scale, maybe it’s Disney World’s guests in general.

I’ve often heard Pete lament the loss of the “Disney Difference ™” and I too feel that there has been less of an effort from the cast members in terms of going above and beyond. We’ve heard tales of how these little special touches that used to surprise people have just vanished; that CM’s used to be much more helpful in making a vacation a truly memorable experience for the guests and that now that type of stuff is vanishing. I’ve read how people lament the loss of cast members treating a birthday boy or girl to a free dessert or a newlywed couple to a glass of champagne, and while these things do still happen, it seems to a lot of folks that they happen less often.

We’ve seen the loss of personalized and individual experiences fading, Miyuki in Japan, the candy lady, used to give the fondant animals to children to take home, then it was reduced to only taking suggesting and not distributing the candy, now she’s gone altogether. The paintbrushes on Tom Sawyer’s Island, waking Tinkerbelle, shouting “Andy!,” all of these are not urban legends of a bygone era in the Disney parks.

Sure it is easy to chalk all of this up to Disney being cheap and trying to show record profits quarter over quarter, and there is certainly an element of that going on. But I wonder if the fault, dear Brutus, lay not in the stars, but in ourselves.

Most of us came to the boards for one of a couple of reasons. Some to share stories about recent trips, some of us to seek guidance in purchasing DVC or how to best plan a vacation, some to discuss Imagineering; the list of reasons for each of us to come here is long and varied, but those reasons all share one common element, the exchange of information. This is not inherently a bad thing and many of us have been better able to enjoy the parks because of that very knowledgebase so readily available, but maybe we all overshared. Maybe we all let everyone in on things that were meant to be private, magical moments just for us. Maybe that very sharing made it impossible for Disney to do it for others.

Consider this: A cast member sees a young man who is really upset about just missing the height requirement for Space Mountain, which all of his siblings have cleared. The kid is obviously dejected and on the verge of tears when the cast member suddenly remembers that Buzz Lightyear was on the lookout for a special agent to take on a mission for him. The cast member then gives Mom a FP and says you need to take him over there right now, and he can’t wait in line because this mission is of utmost importance so show them that security pas and they’ll get you to the front of the line.. The kid and mom hurry off the Buzz and now the kid has a great story instead of a dashed hoped. Mom comes home, writes a glowing trip report and let’s folks know that if your kid can’t get on Space Mountain, the CM’s can give you a FP for Space Ranger Spin. And so it spreads, something that was a one off decision made in the moment is not an expectation. Is this a simplified version of what happens? Is this perhaps a bad example? Sure, but I think that it illustrates the point. Let’s look at something a little darker and a whole lot more likely.

Mom and dad are out eating at Tutto Italia when mom orders an item that comes with mushrooms and asks that they be left off, as she has an allergy. The waiter makes a note, but forgets to ring it in, or the cook is swamped and somehow misses it, in any event the sauce is prepared with mushrooms and Mom has a bad reaction, eventually needing medical attention and an unpleasant evening getting acquainted with the lovely décor of the bathroom in the Port Orleans Riverside studio in which her family is staying. Disney comps not only the meal, but are offering a comped stay at a resort in the future, stating that it was an unconscionable screw-up and they are mortified and want to make sure that she’s ok and able to come back in the future and enjoy a trip on them. Does this sound crazy and overly generous of Disney? Perhaps, but there are plenty of stories of a similar nature out there that indicate that stuff like this has happened.

Mom comes home and writes about this on the boards, and it is read by another mom, Gina Handout, who is always looking to get something for nothing. Gina Handout dines at a variety of on-site restaurants and at each one has a litany of special requests for each item ordered: no cherries on the sundaes, substitutes for every vegetable, etc… And when one dish arrives incorrectly, she catches it immediately and demands to see a manager. Though no one has actually ingested the item in question, the fact that her precious baby MIGHT have done so is enough to warrant Disney doing something to “make it right.” She screams, carries on, and freaks out, secure in the knowledge that she knows what they CAN do; after all she’s read about it online.

Every time we share something special or unique that a cast member did for us, or every way in which Disney goes out of its way to make our vacations magical or make up for a mistake on their part, we raise the level of expectations. If folks read about something someone else got and then they themselves don’t get it, they feel cheated, and you can’t deny that when you are dropping several thousand dollars on a trip (something most folks only spend on cars and houses), there is a certain level of entitlement that is understandable.

I’m not immune to this. I’ve read numerous stories on this board and others about how Disney responded in a medical emergency; how a cast member arranged transport to the Celebration Hospital and had Disney pick up the cost of the cab or did something else special for a person who was sick or injured during their vacation. Imagine my surprise when I hobbled down to the main lobby at 3 in the morning sweating profusely and barely able to speak due to what had yet to be diagnosed as a severe case of strep throat, and was handed directions to the hospital and a phone number for a taxi company. My father had driven down and so I roused him and he drove me over, which wasn’t that big of a deal, except it made me wonder why I didn’t get that same level of care and attention. Did Disney OWE me a ride to the hospital, no, but I felt entitled to one, and I’m not usually that kind of a person.

I think that we need to understand that if we keep blabbing to one another about all of the special ways in which Disney created magic for us, there is less of likelihood that they will be able to do it again for someone else in the future. Rather than face those dashed expectations, I believe that Disney is setting the bar lower on purpose, so that they can raise it only slightly and still come across as having gone out of their way for us. The issue of scale is a major problem for Disney and you can hear it all the time when folks talk about how the parks are so crowded.

Maybe if we all stopped LOOKING for ways in which Disney can make our trips even more special, and instead just enjoyed the vacation, we could all find the magic again and be surprised when something special does happen. Well, that’s my $0.10 (it’s a Disney board, I had to jack up the price of my thoughts to keep pace with the parks), what does everyone else think?

No disrespect, BUT ARE YOU KIDDING ME! With what we pay to stay on property (deluxe) , use the dining plan, and go to the parks for 8 to 9 days out of the ten days we usually stay I can take my family to Europe and stay at a 5 star hotel for a week ( airfare, food, and extras included) which I have done. You can bet your sweet a_ _ they better pony up a little extra when it comes to making the experience extra special. And you mention little miss wants something for nothing no matter where she goes, she is going to try her antics wherever she goes and regardless of what she reads on the threads
 
Agree 1000%.



Ok, I'm going to say it and you can beat me up.

I do not understand how people on these boards defend Disney's filthy restrooms. Reason often given is because people are more messy than in the past.

Perhaps we are less tidy. Doesn't matter. Disney is still responsible for ensuring these facilities are clean. Not rocket science. Get more staff, garbage bags and Clorox in there!

Thank you. I now return control of this thread to the more concise. :-)

Disney is ultimately responsible for making sure that the restrooms are clean, but this comes back to having respect for things. There are a lot of people that are ignorant to the point that they believe "I'm on vacation, you can clean up after me" and they'll make a mess and just walk away. The restrooms are just one place this happens. Places like Cosmic Rays and such are like this as well where people will eat and leave ALL of their dirty, empty plates. It doesn't take much effort to take 2 extra seconds to wipe the seat, pick up your paper towel and put it in the can if it falls on the floor, throw away your trash or even notify a CM if something is less than stellar.

There's only so much that Disney can do, and just because you're on vacation doesn't give you the green light to be a slob. This applies to everyone. Take care of the things you support and they'll be good to you in return.
 
In listening to this week’s segment on the issue of whether or not we know too much, a thought struck me: are we, the fan community, to blame for the perceived decrease in Disney’s quality? Now, don’t get me wrong, Disney is a company whose founder was a believer in the idea that “quality will out” and so should not be taken off the hook if this thought were to bear fruit, but… Maybe it is partially our own fault for the loss of some of the stuff we’ve all lamented. On a larger scale, maybe it’s Disney World’s guests in general.

I’ve often heard Pete lament the loss of the “Disney Difference ™” and I too feel that there has been less of an effort from the cast members in terms of going above and beyond. We’ve heard tales of how these little special touches that used to surprise people have just vanished; that CM’s used to be much more helpful in making a vacation a truly memorable experience for the guests and that now that type of stuff is vanishing. I’ve read how people lament the loss of cast members treating a birthday boy or girl to a free dessert or a newlywed couple to a glass of champagne, and while these things do still happen, it seems to a lot of folks that they happen less often.

We’ve seen the loss of personalized and individual experiences fading, Miyuki in Japan, the candy lady, used to give the fondant animals to children to take home, then it was reduced to only taking suggesting and not distributing the candy, now she’s gone altogether. The paintbrushes on Tom Sawyer’s Island, waking Tinkerbelle, shouting “Andy!,” all of these are not urban legends of a bygone era in the Disney parks.

Sure it is easy to chalk all of this up to Disney being cheap and trying to show record profits quarter over quarter, and there is certainly an element of that going on. But I wonder if the fault, dear Brutus, lay not in the stars, but in ourselves.

Most of us came to the boards for one of a couple of reasons. Some to share stories about recent trips, some of us to seek guidance in purchasing DVC or how to best plan a vacation, some to discuss Imagineering; the list of reasons for each of us to come here is long and varied, but those reasons all share one common element, the exchange of information. This is not inherently a bad thing and many of us have been better able to enjoy the parks because of that very knowledgebase so readily available, but maybe we all overshared. Maybe we all let everyone in on things that were meant to be private, magical moments just for us. Maybe that very sharing made it impossible for Disney to do it for others.

Consider this: A cast member sees a young man who is really upset about just missing the height requirement for Space Mountain, which all of his siblings have cleared. The kid is obviously dejected and on the verge of tears when the cast member suddenly remembers that Buzz Lightyear was on the lookout for a special agent to take on a mission for him. The cast member then gives Mom a FP and says you need to take him over there right now, and he can’t wait in line because this mission is of utmost importance so show them that security pas and they’ll get you to the front of the line.. The kid and mom hurry off the Buzz and now the kid has a great story instead of a dashed hoped. Mom comes home, writes a glowing trip report and let’s folks know that if your kid can’t get on Space Mountain, the CM’s can give you a FP for Space Ranger Spin. And so it spreads, something that was a one off decision made in the moment is not an expectation. Is this a simplified version of what happens? Is this perhaps a bad example? Sure, but I think that it illustrates the point. Let’s look at something a little darker and a whole lot more likely.

Mom and dad are out eating at Tutto Italia when mom orders an item that comes with mushrooms and asks that they be left off, as she has an allergy. The waiter makes a note, but forgets to ring it in, or the cook is swamped and somehow misses it, in any event the sauce is prepared with mushrooms and Mom has a bad reaction, eventually needing medical attention and an unpleasant evening getting acquainted with the lovely décor of the bathroom in the Port Orleans Riverside studio in which her family is staying. Disney comps not only the meal, but are offering a comped stay at a resort in the future, stating that it was an unconscionable screw-up and they are mortified and want to make sure that she’s ok and able to come back in the future and enjoy a trip on them. Does this sound crazy and overly generous of Disney? Perhaps, but there are plenty of stories of a similar nature out there that indicate that stuff like this has happened.

Mom comes home and writes about this on the boards, and it is read by another mom, Gina Handout, who is always looking to get something for nothing. Gina Handout dines at a variety of on-site restaurants and at each one has a litany of special requests for each item ordered: no cherries on the sundaes, substitutes for every vegetable, etc… And when one dish arrives incorrectly, she catches it immediately and demands to see a manager. Though no one has actually ingested the item in question, the fact that her precious baby MIGHT have done so is enough to warrant Disney doing something to “make it right.” She screams, carries on, and freaks out, secure in the knowledge that she knows what they CAN do; after all she’s read about it online.

Every time we share something special or unique that a cast member did for us, or every way in which Disney goes out of its way to make our vacations magical or make up for a mistake on their part, we raise the level of expectations. If folks read about something someone else got and then they themselves don’t get it, they feel cheated, and you can’t deny that when you are dropping several thousand dollars on a trip (something most folks only spend on cars and houses), there is a certain level of entitlement that is understandable.

I’m not immune to this. I’ve read numerous stories on this board and others about how Disney responded in a medical emergency; how a cast member arranged transport to the Celebration Hospital and had Disney pick up the cost of the cab or did something else special for a person who was sick or injured during their vacation. Imagine my surprise when I hobbled down to the main lobby at 3 in the morning sweating profusely and barely able to speak due to what had yet to be diagnosed as a severe case of strep throat, and was handed directions to the hospital and a phone number for a taxi company. My father had driven down and so I roused him and he drove me over, which wasn’t that big of a deal, except it made me wonder why I didn’t get that same level of care and attention. Did Disney OWE me a ride to the hospital, no, but I felt entitled to one, and I’m not usually that kind of a person.

I think that we need to understand that if we keep blabbing to one another about all of the special ways in which Disney created magic for us, there is less of likelihood that they will be able to do it again for someone else in the future. Rather than face those dashed expectations, I believe that Disney is setting the bar lower on purpose, so that they can raise it only slightly and still come across as having gone out of their way for us. The issue of scale is a major problem for Disney and you can hear it all the time when folks talk about how the parks are so crowded.

Maybe if we all stopped LOOKING for ways in which Disney can make our trips even more special, and instead just enjoyed the vacation, we could all find the magic again and be surprised when something special does happen. Well, that’s my $0.10 (it’s a Disney board, I had to jack up the price of my thoughts to keep pace with the parks), what does everyone else think?

The red bolded part took place on our last Disney cruise. At check in we had a gentleman beside us when going over how the room keys worked and how charges to the keys were put on the room etc. He signed it acknowledeg everything and so on. COme check out day when you settle up with guest services for room charges and such he was standing beside me. He was yelling and screaming that he had no idea that using your room key meant things would be charged to the room. He was going on about his 13 year old niece charging 300 dollars to his room in the arcade etc. Now we had the same explanation and asked that our childrens keys NOT have charging on them to which they did accomodate that request. The cast member ended up crediting back not just the 300 from his niece but his entire room charge bill.
 
the red bolded part took place on our last disney cruise. At check in we had a gentleman beside us when going over how the room keys worked and how charges to the keys were put on the room etc. He signed it acknowledeg everything and so on. Come check out day when you settle up with guest services for room charges and such he was standing beside me. He was yelling and screaming that he had no idea that using your room key meant things would be charged to the room. He was going on about his 13 year old niece charging 300 dollars to his room in the arcade etc. Now we had the same explanation and asked that our childrens keys not have charging on them to which they did accomodate that request. The cast member ended up crediting back not just the 300 from his niece but his entire room charge bill.

wow!!!
 
I don't think it's the cast members who no longer go above and beyond.

I think it's WDW that no longer goes above and beyond. That comes from the top - all the cuts, all the sameness in the shops and on the restaurant menus. The unkempt restrooms and rides that desperately need updating and/or maintenance all contribute to the magic ebbing away. My first visit was in 1995 and my last was in 2012. We did not visit for a period of about 5 years prior to 2012. The obvious stagnation was so overwhelming when we last visited that we probably won't be headed back any time soon.


This may be, but how often do you see people complaining about rides being down for lengthy times. Everyone wants all the rides open when they visit, which in Disney's case 365 days a year, but the truth is, Disney is trying to refurbish rides as fast as possible to keep rides open. If people were more understanding to the fact that some of the rides need to go down for the better portion of a year so that the "magic" can be put back into the ride, Disney might be inclined to shut down Space Mountain and layout all new track and so on.

As for the restaurant menus, last I checked there are places that are going to offer the commonplace food items, but there's a very wide variety available. It's all a matter of what you want to spend to get it. You're not going to get specialized 4 course meals for the price of a Big Mac meal at McD's.

As for the general appearance and cleanliness of the parks, yes, there are only so many people on staff, but you know what, finding a nearby trash can (or at least alerting a CM if it's full) can go a long way. There are other Disney parks around the world that are kept in very good condition because the people are respectful of the property they are visiting... It's not just a "vacation trash heap" where they use and dispose where they feel like it.

So as much as corporate does have a hand in the money and magic making, it once again does come back to the consumer. If you treat something like trash and deface it and don't take care of it, why would they want to put the money back into it?
 
Disney is ultimately responsible for making sure that the restrooms are clean, but this comes back to having respect for things. There are a lot of people that are ignorant to the point that they believe "I'm on vacation, you can clean up after me" and they'll make a mess and just walk away. The restrooms are just one place this happens. Places like Cosmic Rays and such are like this as well where people will eat and leave ALL of their dirty, empty plates. It doesn't take much effort to take 2 extra seconds to wipe the seat, pick up your paper towel and put it in the can if it falls on the floor, throw away your trash or even notify a CM if something is less than stellar.

There's only so much that Disney can do, and just because you're on vacation doesn't give you the green light to be a slob. This applies to everyone. Take care of the things you support and they'll be good to you in return.



Oh boy you are right about Cosmic Rays.

Again, however. We pay plenty for the pleasure of a Disney Park. I don't mind picking up extra cups and plates but that should not be my responsibility. The bottom line, Disney prides itself on it's reputation for clean parks? Than drop the excuses, pony up the staff and keep them clean.
 
I agree with the OP. But boards and the internet are just a different means of word of mouth. In the past, people talked to each other and found out about these things. There is a bit of a thrill to feeling like an insider and knowing about a hidden gem (or paintbrush), and I think that's why a lot of people love Disney and frequent these boards.

Disney must accept some of the blame. Since 2000, single day ticket price has more than doubled (from around $45 to almost $100). In the early 1990s, MK attendance was around 12million/year. Now it's almost 18million. Have they increased the size of the park by 50% to keep that "wonderland" feel? No. They have added features and increased the density of stuff, as well as adding shows, which does serve to increase the entertainment value, but there's nothing like the physical space of Disney World to make you feel like it's special -- maybe the attendance levels are robbing the parks of that feel, because the way they are accommodating high attendance is to add things like shows where you are elbow-to-elbow.

Disney's challenge is to keep coming up with new ways to place hidden gems throughout the park in a way that can accommodate tens of thousands of people a day, new ways to delight people with novelty and surprise, and the speed to accomplish these for the A.D.D. 21st Century. If any company can do it, Disney can.
 

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