Are the Reservations Are Going To Stay Forever?

[DisneyJamieCA]

Stick with tickets. I have the Dream key and I have trouble getting reservations with the way I like to visit. If I knew what it would have been like, I wouldn't have bought a Key. If booking reservations remains the same as is it right now, I won't get a Key next year. It will be easier to book a couple visits with tickets.

This is how I feel. We had been AP holders for almost 15 years prepandemic. We’ve decided to stick to regular tickets until they get this new system worked out better.

I do feel bad for everybody who dropped that kind of money and are struggling to find dates to go.

 

[gelatoni fan]

Stick with tickets. I have the Dream key and I have trouble getting reservations with the way I like to visit. If I knew what it would have been like, I wouldn't have bought a Key. If booking reservations remains the same as is it right now, I won't get a Key next year. It will be easier to book a couple visits with tickets.

I suspect Disney will reopen reservations late summer right before it's renewal time so everybody thinks things are getting better and forget how bad it was. Then Halloween and Christmas will hit again and loads of people will have another round of buyers remorse.

 

[TsWade2]

Stick with tickets. I have the Dream key and I have trouble getting reservations with the way I like to visit. If I knew what it would have been like, I wouldn't have bought a Key. If booking reservations remains the same as is it right now, I won't get a Key next year. It will be easier to book a couple visits with tickets.

Fine, The Dream Key Passes are not coming back anyway.

 

[StormyCA]

I suspect Disney will reopen reservations late summer right before it's renewal time so everybody thinks things are getting better and forget how bad it was. Then Halloween and Christmas will hit again and loads of people will have another round of buyers remorse.

I think the holiday season (Oct-early Jan) is ALWAYS going to be the most difficult time for AP reservations, followed by 'high' summer and Spring Break. Disney is going to focus (correctly, IMO) on Ticket Guests as that is where the most money is going to be at those times of the year. AP reservations, especially during the Fall/Winter holiday period are going to basically be minimum with 'fill in' slots opening here and there close to the dates opened.

 

[Astylla]

I'm one of the few that likes the reservation system however it is flawed in the sense that you can't change parks should availability open up to do so or even same day cancellations.
Just to be devil's advocate , last night while browsing reservations at 11pm noticed today was open at Disneyland to book and even Thanksgiving day for either to start in.
So last minute reservations are possible , just requires some diligence.

 

[gelatoni fan]

I'm one of the few that likes the reservation system however it is flawed in the sense that you can't change parks should availability open up to do so or even same day cancellations.
Just to be devil's advocate , last night while browsing reservations at 11pm noticed today was open at Disneyland to book and even Thanksgiving day for either to start in.
So last minute reservations are possible , just requires some diligence.

To me, that's like driving a super old car and saying you only need help to jump start it about once a month. It's possible to work around the flaws of the system but not having the reservation system at all will save a lot of guests a lot of frustration.

I'm most curious about when this will catch up with Disney. If the biggest spenders at Disney (on a per lifetime, not per day basis) fall out of love with Disney, that's years of lost revenue. This could kill high end pin trading as people exit the hobby from lack of access to park pins or lead to a new generation of locals who prioritize other activities over Disneyland.

 

[StormyCA]

I'm one of the few that likes the reservation system however it is flawed in the sense that you can't change parks should availability open up to do so or even same day cancellations.
Just to be devil's advocate , last night while browsing reservations at 11pm noticed today was open at Disneyland to book and even Thanksgiving day for either to start in.
So last minute reservations are possible , just requires some diligence.

I am pretty OK about reservations. At WDW (prior to G+) you scheduled your FP+ in advance, so similar to a park reservation you were sort of 'locked in' to visiting a specific park on a specific day. Sure, you could cancel your FP+ for the day and go to a different park on the spur of the moment, but the likelihood that you could get new FP+ for 'the good rides' was practically nil. In that, the reservations system has the same 'limitations'. The fly in the park ressie ointment is not being able to cancel park ressies 'day of'. Our WDW trip in 2021 w/park ressies and our 2 prior trips w/FP+ 'reservations' were pretty much the same as far as 'having' to go to a specific park on a specific day.


Another 'plus' to reservations is guaranteed entry and crowd level control. But the crowd level control is only a 'plus' if Disney keeps the numbers down to below the horrendous crowds of 'the before times'. For the non-local it means that once you make your hotel/flight/tickets purchases and book your park ressies you know you're getting in to the Parks on your days, most important for high season/holiday travelers. The only 'downside' I see is for 'spur of the moment' locals and people whose travel times are restricted by work/school schedules.

I do think they need to better coordinate park reservations as far as 'onsite' hotel guests go. I think you should be able to book your park reservations at the same time you book your onsite stay, even if it's 6+ months in advance. I do think they'd have to put in a restriction that it would be for onsite only and if you cancel your stay, you lose your park reservations.

 

[cruisehopeful]

To me, that's like driving a super old car and saying you only need help to jump start it about once a month. It's possible to work around the flaws of the system but not having the reservation system at all will save a lot of guests a lot of frustration.

I'm most curious about when this will catch up with Disney. If the biggest spenders at Disney (on a per lifetime, not per day basis) fall out of love with Disney, that's years of lost revenue. This could kill high end pin trading as people exit the hobby from lack of access to park pins or lead to a new generation of locals who prioritize other activities over Disneyland.

I agree with everything that you said. I can't tell you how many hours I've wasted just trying to coordinate visits and trying to get some dang restaurant reservations. Today, I noticed that my husband's Key was missing from my account and go through several steps to add it again. What a joke. We go for a few hours or I'll go for an overnight here and there. This new system doesn't work for the way we do Disney. Sucking it up for now and staying onsite a lot to get those park reservations, but I'm already thinking about other locations for my day getaways, etc. We'll still go to Disneyland, just not on the scale that we have before. No reason to have a million Dooneys, Pandora charms or spirit jerseys at this point when I am thinking I'll be going a lot less in the future. No reason to buy a Key when I won't be buying merchandise or needing to park in the structure.

 

[TsWade2]

I talked to my brother why I can’t get the Dream Key Pass, he told me that the Dream Key and other Magic Keys are total ripoffs that you can’t get a reservation to Disneyland when you used a Dream Key. I even did a research and I‘ve heard it received negative reviews. YIKES! Now I understand. So, I guess I’ll order tickets to go DL or DCA or both parks whatever works maybe better than nothing. I’ve heard the Dream Key and Believe Key are making some kinks while both of them are sold out. I guess I have to wait a year and see there be any changes for Dream Key after the mess up that DL made. In the meantime, I guess I’ll get use the tickets.

 

[Dory92130]

This could kill high end pin trading as people exit the hobby from lack of access to park pins or lead to a new generation of locals who prioritize other activities over Disneyland.

You must have missed the last D23 running of the bulls pin derby

I'm quite certain the avid pin traders have the reservation system down to an art form already and really don't believe they will move onwards to places like Universal or swap meets.

 

[gelatoni fan]

You must have missed the last D23 running of the bulls pin derby

I'm quite certain the avid pin traders have the reservation system down to an art form already and really don't believe they will move onwards to places like Universal or swap meets.

I'm seeing park pins go on clearance at Disney stores which I had never seen pre-pandemic. Website traffic for Disney pin related websites has also been going down while traffic for most Disney blogs has stayed steady. I don't think pin traders are going to swap meets instead. Just that they have taken opportunity during the pandemic to consolidate their collections and are choosing to not collect new series. From what I can see of pin availability in Disney Stores and the parks, pins definitely don't seem to be selling as well as in the past.

D23 is a different tier of what I'm talking about. Most people who live near the parks start off trading open editions with cast members, move on to limited edition park pins and then some go after things like D23 pins. The people at the top are still there but fewer people seem interested in the middle and lower tiers right now.

 

[dcfromva]

To me, that's like driving a super old car and saying you only need help to jump start it about once a month. It's possible to work around the flaws of the system but not having the reservation system at all will save a lot of guests a lot of frustration.

I'm most curious about when this will catch up with Disney. If the biggest spenders at Disney (on a per lifetime, not per day basis) fall out of love with Disney, that's years of lost revenue. This could kill high end pin trading as people exit the hobby from lack of access to park pins or lead to a new generation of locals who prioritize other activities over Disneyland.

I don't have an annual pass, but I wonder about the legal ramifications to selling a pass that has no block out dates (at a higher cost) and then essentially blocking it out for months on end due to no reservation slots being available.

In some ways, there is little to differeniate between Dream pass and the Imagine Pass with the lack of reservation slots.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I don't have an annual pass, but I wonder about the legal ramifications to selling a pass that has no block out dates (at a higher cost) and then essentially blocking it out for months on end due to no reservation slots being available.

In some ways, there is little to differeniate between Dream pass and the Imagine Pass with the lack of reservation slots.

It’s perfectly legal since it’s spelled out in the T&C. The number of reservations you’re able to hold at one time, along with the disclosure you aren’t guaranteed a reservation keeps them in the clear. They haven’t blocked any dates - they just are all already reserved.

Legal and moral are two different things.

 

[dcfromva]

It’s perfectly legal since it’s spelled out in the T&C. The number of reservations you’re able to hold at one time, along with the disclosure you aren’t guaranteed a reservation keeps them in the clear. They haven’t blocked any dates - they just are all already reserved.

Legal and moral are two different things.

You can put all sorts of thing in the T&C. (You can even say the company doesn't have any liability for anything, etc.) But, it might not hold up if someone pursued a legal remedy--especially in CA which seems to have a lot of consumer protection laws. I suspect that might be one reason Disney paused the sale of annual passes.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

You can put all sorts of thing in the T&C. (You can even say the company doesn't have any liability for anything, etc.) But, it might not hold up if someone pursued a legal remedy--especially in CA which seems to have a lot of consumer protection laws. I suspect that might be one reason Disney paused the sale of annual passes.

What could they possibly sue for? It is clearly written out that you may only hold 6 reservations at a time and that reservations and park entry aren’t guaranteed. You acknowledge that before purchasing. You are agreeing to those terms on your pass. The no block out days on this pass clearly doesn’t promise you can go every day. It means you have the possibility of going every day, which is true.

Suddenly adding blocked out days where there isn’t the possibility to book a reservation would be changing the terms of the pass. Them selling out before somebody can book it does not. I understand people being frustrated- the terms are the reason we DIDN’T get passes - but there wouldn’t be a leg to stand on in suing them.

 

[dcfromva]

What could they possibly sue for? It is clearly written out that you may only hold 6 reservations at a time and that reservations and park entry aren’t guaranteed. You acknowledge that before purchasing. You are agreeing to those terms on your pass. The no block out days on this pass clearly doesn’t promise you can go every day.

If there were no reservations available for anyone, but Disney has limited the number of slot available to annual pass holders while there are still slots available for other categories.

It means you have the possibility of going every day, which is true.

Obviously that has proven to be false. There is no possibility to go if there are no slots available (for annual pass holders). On top of this--it is not a case of no slots available. I believe there are slots available for other ticket categories (or hotel guests).

Anyway, I guess it depends on how upset the folks who have standing in this situation are. (Obviously, not me since I don't hold an annual pass at DL)

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

If there were no reservations available for anyone, but Disney has limited the number of slot available to annual pass holders while there are still slots available for other categories.



Obviously that has proven to be false. There is no possibility to go if there are no slots available (for annual pass holders). On top of this--it is not a case of no slots available. I believe there are slots available for other ticket categories (or hotel guests).

Anyway, I guess it depends on how upset the folks who have standing in this situation are. (Obviously, not me since I don't hold an annual pass at DL)

You’re conflating two issues. Just because reservations are already full, doesn’t mean they suddenly have block out dates. You’re trying to portray it as they put block out dates on the highest passes - they haven’t. They are able to go every day they can get a reservation. They knew when they bought that reservations would be limited. To put it simply, a full reservation day is NOT the same as a blocked out day. All they were promised was no block out days. That DOES remain true.

And yes, they did have the opportunity to go. They either didn’t book in time before it was full or they already held their 6 days, barring them from making more. That is something they were aware would happen prior to purchasing.

Like I said before, there is definitely the argument for whether it’s moral/ethical for Disney to do it. But that is much different than them being legally wrong.

ETA: the multiple buckets of tickets has been around since they started the reservation system. Nobody can claim they were blindsided by it now.

 

[dieumeye]

You’re conflating two issues. Just because reservations are already full, doesn’t mean they suddenly have block out dates. You’re trying to portray it as they put block out dates on the highest passes - they haven’t. They are able to go every day they can get a reservation. They knew when they bought that reservations would be limited. To put it simply, a full reservation day is NOT the same as a blocked out day. All they were promised was no block out days. That DOES remain true.

And yes, they did have the opportunity to go. They either didn’t book in time before it was full or they already held their 6 days, barring them from making more. That is something they were aware would happen prior to purchasing.

Like I said before, there is definitely the argument for whether it’s moral/ethical for Disney to do it. But that is much different than them being legally wrong.

ETA: the multiple buckets of tickets has been around since they started the reservation system. Nobody can claim they were blindsided by it now.

As an old law professor of mine used to say, “you can sue anyone for anything.”

The old APs also had language about not guaranteeing days and that the passes were subject to park closure, etc, yet they still refunded money when the parks closed. Why? Were they doing that only to be nice? Maybe. Or maybe they did it simply to avoid a PR issue. Or maybe they did it because of the possibility of a class action lawsuit. We will never know.

The point is, just because something is in the terms and conditions, it’s not an ironclad “get out of jail free card“ for the company, especially where there are a large number of people that are unhappy.

Do I think a lawsuit will come of any of this? No. Do I think that Disney realizes there is something wrong with the current program? Yes. I think we are already seeing that with the closure of the Dream and Believe keys. (And I do realize that they said Keys would be limited when they were released.)

But why bother closing the keys if the terms and conditions clearly say that no reservation is ever guaranteed? Why not just keep selling as long as people are willing to buy? After all, the terms and conditions make it clear that you aren’t guaranteed anything when you buy a key.

Maybe Disney is just unhappy with the program internally, regardless of guest satisfaction. Maybe they realize that there are guests who are unhappy with the current program. Maybe they realize that there is a “tipping point“ where selling too many keys becomes problematic in terms of their ability to make a reasonable number of reservations available for keyholders, despite the terms and conditions never guaranteeing any reservations at all.

We will never know. But I am interested to see what they do next.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

As an old law professor of mine used to say, “you can sue anyone for anything.”

The old APs also had language about not guaranteeing days and that the passes were subject to park closure, etc, yet they still refunded money when the parks closed. Why? Were they doing that only to be nice? Maybe. Or maybe they did it simply to avoid a PR issue. Or maybe they did it because of the possibility of a class action lawsuit. We will never know.

The point is, just because something is in the terms and conditions, it’s not an ironclad “get out of jail free card“ for the company, especially where there are a large number of people that are unhappy.

Do I think a lawsuit will come of any of this? No. Do I think that Disney realizes there is something wrong with the current program? Yes. I think we are already seeing that with the closure of the Dream and Believe keys. (And I do realize that they said Keys would be limited when they were released.)

But why bother closing the keys if the terms and conditions clearly say that no reservation is ever guaranteed? Why not just keep selling as long as people are willing to buy? After all, the terms and conditions make it clear that you aren’t guaranteed anything when you buy a key.

Maybe Disney is just unhappy with the program internally, regardless of guest satisfaction. Maybe they realize that there are guests who are unhappy with the current program. Maybe they realize that there is a “tipping point“ where selling too many keys becomes problematic in terms of their ability to make a reasonable number of reservations available for keyholders, despite the terms and conditions never guaranteeing any reservations at all.

We will never know. But I am interested to see what they do next.

Because they aren’t stupid and realize they are in a PR nightmare with the problems. I’m not denying there are problems. Clearly there are. But it’s a strawman argument to compare it to the yearlong+ closures. As you remember, refunds weren’t easy to come by early on. For unused passes, for MaxPass that didn’t exist anymore.

I could see refunds being issued on a case by case basis if people were truly upset. And yes, you’re right, anybody CAN file a suit. I’m talking about it going anywhere and in this case, it wouldn’t. Disney didn’t do a bait & switch here, no matter how much the current situation sucks.

 

[ktlm]

Another 'plus' to reservations is guaranteed entry and crowd level control. But the crowd level control is only a 'plus' if Disney keeps the numbers down to below the horrendous crowds of 'the before times'. For the non-local it means that once you make your hotel/flight/tickets purchases and book your park ressies you know you're getting in to the Parks on your days, most important for high season/holiday travelers. The only 'downside' I see is for 'spur of the moment' locals and people whose travel times are restricted by work/school schedules.

In theory there is crowd control, but our October experience was that in practice not so much. It caused crowd issues, not crowd control. The park reservations and restriction on hopping kept the crowds from evening out. Everything was packed with huge lines at DL by 10:00 a.m., and it was beyond frustrating to look at the lines at CA and see they were all really low and be unable to hop over. We were trapped. Everyone was trapped, so there was no way to balance the crowd. Both parks were sold out--- but the ride lines were vastly different between the parks and no way to even it out. I think the issue you have with restricting hopping until 1:00 p.m. is that unlike WDW, at DLR there is a large number of locals that don't show up until noon or later. So, all you are doing is restricting for a time period when hopping would allow the crowd to balance out if one park is more crowded than the other. After 1:00 p.m. people can go in any park. You can scan in to your reserved park, walk immediately out, and cross to the other park. The reservation system serves no real purpose at DLR- or at least the restriction on hopping doesn't.

Also, the downside we saw is EVERY SINGLE MORNING of our trip outside the gates we saw at least one crying young child with a parent explaining they were sorry but even though they had tickets they couldn't go to Disneyland like they promised them because they didn't have a park reservation. One morning we saw about 5 separate families with crying kids on the plaza that could not enter the parks. It is heartbreaking to see, and I'm sure even more heartbreaking for the family. At least in October, there were clearly a lot of people out there that did not understand the park reservation system or that a ticket did not gain entry into the parks. We were just passing quickly through the plaza to the gate too, so I can't imagine how many there must be like that every day if we saw that many in a very short time.