Are external airlines performing better these days?

[starvenger]

What would people call a airline that is not domestic if it is not domestic?

I am considering switching to one of these non domestic for even travel within the US, so it isn't international if I am not leaving the US, not sure how to name it but maybe you all know?

If it's Air Canada or Westjet or Transat, you can say "Canadian airline" and I think that most people will get the gist of it.

Air Canada itself is fine as a carrier but you should always check to ensure that it's not a code share - otherwise you'll be flying United, which is not great.

Westjet has shifted their focus to western Canadian cities, which is a bit of a choice considering how you're ignoring large populations in Toronto and Montreal.

I don't think Porter flies from the US to anywhere but Toronto but if you get a chance to fly with them I'd recommend.

 

[RedAngie]

There are a few. Mainly doing US city - US city - International city (and you can book just the leg between US cities) but, you are correct, they are fairly rare (I know El Al had flights between NYC and LA, for example. Or did, at least).

That would be cabotage and is generally not permitted in any country.

In the El Al example, the journey MUST originate or end in Israel. You can’t just fly NYC to LA on El Al without starting or ending in Tel Aviv. You could, however, have a stopover in NYC, then continue to LA. Or vice versa.

Qantas (Australia) has the same arrangement concerning LA and NYC.

There are something known as Fifth Freedom flights. Fly internationally from Point B to Point C using an airline from Country A. One of the most famous examples was (discontinued after covid) Los Angeles to London (or reverse) flying Air New Zealand. They still have a Fifth Freedom flight in the other direction, I believe.

 

[SirDuff]

Y

That would be cabotage and is generally not permitted in any country.

In the El Al example, the journey MUST originate or end in Israel. You can’t just fly NYC to LA on El Al without starting or ending in Tel Aviv. You could, however, have a stopover in NYC, then continue to LA. Or vice versa.

Qantas (Australia) has the same arrangement concerning LA and NYC.

There are something known as Fifth Freedom flights. Fly internationally from Point B to Point C using an airline from Country A. One of the most famous examples was (discontinued after covid) Los Angeles to London (or reverse) flying Air New Zealand. They still have a Fifth Freedom flight in the other direction, I believe.

Yup, you're right, I'm totally wrong. However, I could have sworn that something changed when the Open Skies policy happened (decades ago now) and I don't think it was Fifth Freedom (or not just that).

I also could have sworn that people told me that they only flew the NYC-LAX leg on El Al but either (a) I misunderstand, (b) I misremembered, (c) they somehow cheated (like hidden city booking) or (d) they were wrong.

Sorry for the bad information.

 

[Karin1984]

Y

Yup, you're right, I'm totally wrong. However, I could have sworn that something changed when the Open Skies policy happened (decades ago now) and I don't think it was Fifth Freedom (or not just that).

I also could have sworn that people told me that they only flew the NYC-LAX leg on El Al but either (a) I misunderstand, (b) I misremembered, (c) they somehow cheated (like hidden city booking) or (d) they were wrong.

Sorry for the bad information.

For a long time Singapore Airlines had a flight Singapore - Amsterdam - New York and it was possible to just fly Amsterdam-New York on Singapore Airlines.

And KLM still has Denpasar - Kuala Lumpur - Amsterdam, where you can also just book that first leg.

So maybe El Al used to have LAX-NYC-TLV (and vice versa) where the same was possible.

 

[ChrisFL]

I'm flying ANA instead of United to Japan next year due to all of the issues I've been seeing surrounding United. I've heard ANA is fantastic so I hope it lives up to that.

Also I clicked on this wondering what an "external" airline was too.

Agreed. What's annoying is that the way these agreements are set up on travel sites, you could book an international ANA flight but still get stuck with United unless you look specifically. I nearly reserved one earlier this year "for ANA" and 3 of the 4 flights were actually United, including the ones to Japan IIRC

 

[Smugpugmug]

Agreed. What's annoying is that the way these agreements are set up on travel sites, you could book an international ANA flight but still get stuck with United unless you look specifically. I nearly reserved one earlier this year "for ANA" and 3 of the 4 flights were actually United, including the ones to Japan IIRC

I noticed that when looking at ANA's site. A lot of the flights from Tokyo to the airport of my choice are on United. Only one of them is actually on ANA. I will be sure to choose one on ANA since I do not want to be stuck with the slop United calls food on their international flights.

 

[SirDuff]

For a long time Singapore Airlines had a flight Singapore - Amsterdam - New York and it was possible to just fly Amsterdam-New York on Singapore Airlines.

And KLM still has Denpasar - Kuala Lumpur - Amsterdam, where you can also just book that first leg.

So maybe El Al used to have LAX-NYC-TLV (and vice versa) where the same was possible.

Good thought but, no. Your examples (also Amsterdam - KL - Manila - KL - Amsterdam, which I've flown and for which you can book just between KL and Manila) are examples of Fifth Freedom that the PP explained (the flights aren't domestic to any one country) but NYC-LAX-TLV wouldn't be. I think I just was wrong.

But thanks for trying