Are average children

[LisaR]

What you describe is advanced and advantaged but does not describe gifted.

Advanced and gifted are used interchangeably and they really shouldn't be. The kid that graduated high school and college at 12 is gifted. The child that reads three grade levels ahead and is "great" at math is advanced. Did they teach themselves calculus at 8? Gifted! Are they doing Algebra 1 in 7th grade? Advanced. Huge difference.

 

[DMRick]

My grandson (only child of a single mom) is graduating salutatorian (missed valedictorian by a point or two). He's very smart..or at least I should say, he knows how to study and remembers what he studied (I think his mom had a lot to do with teaching him how to study). He's also very motivated, as in he knows what he wants to be when he grows up, and how to get there. He's taken AP courses, he's gotten college credits over the summer and while in school. He still isn't gifted..he's 18 and still a senior in high school. He's had to work for everything...it didn't just come naturally. He is a hard worker. If he was truly gifted he would be graduating college by now.

 

[KimR]

Advanced and gifted are used interchangeably and they really shouldn't be. The kid that graduated high school and college at 12 is gifted. The child that reads three grade levels ahead and is "great" at math is advanced. Did they teach themselves calculus at 8? Gifted! Are they doing Algebra 1 in 7th grade? Advanced. Huge difference.

It's just a matter of sematics. To me advanced means better than average - say the top 30% of the class; gifted would be the top 10%, with all the variations specified in my previous post. Profoundly Gifted would be what we think of as a prodigy or genius.

This is most likely why our school system eliminated the term gifted and now uses meaningless terms to identify what used to be called the gifted program.

 

[LuvOrlando]

well if you were going for divisive then congrats on a job well done, if you were going for something else, then I think it's a swing & a miss.

 

[scrapquitler]

a thing of the past? It seems most DIS kids are gifted. My kids are average and awesome despite their averageness

I have one that is above average in scholastic stuff (except her writing isn't very good, I have to help edit papers and such, and her spelling is terrible). But the girl cannot sing and she is much below average athletically (except for dance)

My son is decidely below average academically, but he is the sweetest kid ever. Also definitely non-atheletic, but he is a comedian.

 

[Buckalew11]

My kid has average intelligence but he's a perfectionist, overachiever. Sucks for him.

This is my DD. She's smart but no genius and extremely motivated which serves her well and has especially since we have been homeschooling during high school. But I'll tell you, I agree, a perfectionist and an overachiever makes life really tough.

Things are better than they were several years ago. I think she's calmed down a bit.

 

[JOCAmom]

Gifted? DS15 doesn't even want to go to college. You cannot imagine the flak I'm taking from other parents.

It invariably goes something like this -

Other parent: Where is DS going for college? DS/DD wants to get a degree from "College" in "Chosen Career".

Me: DS15 sn't interested in college. He has his sights set on "His Goal".

Other parent: Really? That's too bad. He still has time to change his mind though.


Seriously? What he wants to do now is a step up from what he previously wanted to be - a french fry cook at Burger King. Not that there's anything wrong with frying fries at BK. Somebody has to do it.

I don't get why parents think it's "too bad" that he isn't interested in college. Not every child aspires to go to college.

This is my DD15 right now except she decided that she does not want to be a veterinarian anymore and wants to be a tattoo artist instead. She's smart but does not really like school. Certainly not gifted but she could be doing much better in school if she applied herself even more. But she is talented artistically. She could free hand draw something better than I could trace it.

 

[bmg_40]

My lil 3 mo. old has daddy's heart on a platter already... shes perfect...

 

[tlbwriter]

It's just a matter of sematics. To me advanced means better than average - say the top 30% of the class; gifted would be the top 10%, with all the variations specified in my previous post.

And that's an issue I have with the grade school DD attended, where 30% of the kids were labeled "gifted." Boy, we must have a spectacular school! No, it's just that we're calling kids "gifted" when they're really "smart."

 

[Magpie]

You know, even a child in the top 1 percent of IQ couldn't teach himself advanced calculus at the age of eight. The kid who can is one in a million. Defining "giftedness" by that standard is basically the same as saying there's no such thing as "gifted".

Even Mensa takes the top 2%!

If a school has a very average population of 400, then there should be at least 8 kids who are "gifted" by Mensa standards. If you define gifted generously as the top 10 percent of the school population - then you've got 40 kids and enough to fill a couple classes. Of course, some schools will have more gifted kids, and some will have less, depending on socio-economic factors. A school located in a government town or technology center can reasonably expect to attract the children of some very bright, driven people.

It's true "gifted" can be defined too broadly, but it can also be defined SO narrowly it loses all meaning. Some common sense is called for here.

 

[princesshannahsmom]

Just my opinion, but I believe that there are more gifted children now than - let's say - when my kids were in school (I'm 61)..

One reason that comes to mind (and of course there are others as well) is that there are more "only" children - who in some cases spend more time with adults than with other children.. My DGD is an only child - and yes, she's very gifted - but, prior to attending school she was cared for (from birth) by both sets of grandparents (we would alternate days) and she had our undivided attention.. Any question she ever asked (being as inquisitive as she was) was answered in length - with many details - and therefore everything became a learning experience for her.. By the time she reached the age of 5, she was leaps and bounds ahead of most of her peers.. Her dad (also an only child) is gifted as well.. Her mom (my DD) was just an "average" child - as were most of the other children in our blended family (I had 3 from a prior marriage, my late DH had 5)..

Of course there are also gifted children in families with multiple children.. Maybe it's those prenatal vitamins (that we weren't prescribed "back in the day") - LOL - maybe it's better/different nutrition - more exposure to educational opportunities (which begin practically at birth).. I really don't know "why" it seems to be that way, but I believe that in many, many cases it's absolutely true and it's never occured to me to question whether people are being truthful or not when they talk about their children being gifted; on the high honor rolls; winning awards; etc..

There's nothing wrong with being average; nothing wrong with being gifted; nothing wrong with struggling.. These children are what they are - and as long as they get what they need to meet their goals in life, I don't see what the issue is..

DING, DING, DING, folks we have a winner here!! This is what I truly believe. We have more ONLY children who are doted on by mostly adults, so therefore, are "lightyears" ahead of their peers when they enter an educational setting.

This describes my DD to a T. I was a working mom, she was the first grandchild on BOTH sides, the first great grandchild on both sides, so she was with adults ONLY until she was four years old. Just like the quoted PP, when she asked a question (she was also very inquisitive), she received a very long detailed answer. Now, she is in the "gifted" program at school and nearly everyone who spends any time with her, refers to her as "an old soul."
She IS my DD, I do believe she IS gifted, but I don't brag on her abilities, I just think she was given opportunities growing up that many children simply do not have, such as spending inordinate amounts of time with her great grandparents, who had so many educational and fun stories to tell!

 

[singleinthe city]

DING, DING, DING, folks we have a winner here!! This is what I truly believe. We have more ONLY children who are doted on by mostly adults, so therefore, are "lightyears" ahead of their peers when they enter an educational setting.

This describes my DD to a T. I was a working mom, she was the first grandchild on BOTH sides, the first great grandchild on both sides, so she was with adults ONLY until she was four years old. Just like the quoted PP, when she asked a question (she was also very inquisitive), she received a very long detailed answer. Now, she is in the "gifted" program at school and nearly everyone who spends any time with her, refers to her as "an old soul."
She IS my DD, I do believe she IS gifted, but I don't brag on her abilities, I just think she was given opportunities growing up that many children simply do not have, such as spending inordinate amounts of time with her great grandparents, who had so many educational and fun stories to tell!

BONK! BONK! BONK! You are using the wrong terminology. Once again, your DD is advanced and advantaged but that does not mean she is gifted. You are interchanging gifted and advanced. Most children who have lots of academic stimulus are advanced, but that does not equate to gifted. Gifted is a God given talent that doesn't need the constant prodding of adults.

 

[BeefJerky]

My kid is awesome at being average. I know this sounds snarky but I usually roll my eyes at the "gifted" thing. It's not the kids, its the parents.


Nah, my kid is regular even though sometimes he does some things I just don't understand.

 

[princesshannahsmom]

BONK! BONK! BONK! You are using the wrong terminology. Once again, your DD is advanced and advantaged but that does not mean she is gifted. You are interchanging gifted and advanced. Most children who have lots of academic stimulus are advanced, but that does not equate to gifted. Gifted is a God given talent that doesn't need the constant prodding of adults.

Well, alrite, she is "advanced and advantaged" then. I was simply agreeing with the previous poster, who stated that she believes the large number of "gifted" (notice I quoted that) children are due to the fact that there are more and more ONLY children who are being RAISED predominately with adults. I didn't mention anyone being "prodded", because DD isn't "prodded" by adults, she just interacted with only adults until she was 4.

 

[dngnb8]

Pot meet kettle.

Oh yes, someone always thinks they are the "victim" that's for sure.

My daughter has been a victim. Unless you know otherwise, please share the data.

I love how people rationalize. A satirical thread about being average because there is a thread about a gifted child. OH how victimized!

 

[JerseyJanice]

My daughter has been a victim. Unless you know otherwise, please share the data.

I love how people rationalize. A satirical thread about being average because there is a thread about a gifted child. OH how victimized!

Actually, it's not only the recent thread about a gifted child. There was another one last week about a kid in an AP algebra class who didn't do his homework and scored low on a test. His mom was bent out of shape because his teacher suggested that he not take an AP course next year.

And that's just another recent example. The OP started the thread to point out that there seems to be a disproportionate number of children on the Dis whose parents claim that they are either gifted or on the spectrum. Because you're brand new here, it's understandable you wouldn't have noticed this. It's certainly nothing personal toward you or your daughter (who I guess is gifted?).

And in the spirit of the thread, I will say that my own kid is so average, I don't even have a clue what they do, if anything, for "gifted" kids. It's a small high school (less than 400 kids) so it may be nothing.

 

[dngnb8]

Actually, it's not only the recent thread about a gifted child. There was another one last week about a kid in an AP algebra class who didn't do his homework and scored low on a test. His mom was bent out of shape because his teacher suggested that he not take an AP course next year.

And that's just another recent example. The OP started the thread to point out that there seems to be a disproportionate number of children on the Dis whose parents claim that they are either gifted or on the spectrum. Because you're brand new here, it's understandable you wouldn't have noticed this. It's certainly nothing personal toward you or your daughter (who I guess is gifted?).

Gifted children are wired differently. They learn differently. The problem with todays education is that if you dont fit into the prefabricated mold, youre pretty much kicked aside. I suggest you research more about what makes a gifted child different. You obviously are making conclusions based on a Prefab determination and you seem to have some bitterness. I can with confidence say your lack of information on the issue is part of your problem, and its why you think satirical threads of this nature are okay.

Think of it this way. The average vehicle is a piston driven engine. However, there are rotary driven engines. Both make the vehicle work, but they do so differently. The current education system is designed for piston engines. Those that are rotary are forced to fit in, or are cast aside, have snide comments made about them. And when they get attention for the rotary engine, they are treated with disdain, teased, and have satirical forum thread about being an average piston engine because they get "special" treatment. Its a form of jealousy because they get individual attention.

And in the spirit of the thread, I will say that my own kid is so average, I don't even have a clue what they do, if anything, for "gifted" kids. It's a small high school (less than 400 kids) so it may be nothing.

The issue isnt the kid, its you IMHO. You admit you have no clue what they do, yet you seem to have this bitterness. This bitterness is from lack of information. What makes it worse is you choose to remain uninformed and defend the bitterness though lack of information. Youre choosing ignorance. Have you ever attended a Gifted Child Seminar? Probably not, and frankly, I didnt either until my child exhibited talents. It was an epiphany. I like you made uninformed judgments of my child holding on to the pervading misconceptions about gifted kids. I felt guilt for treating these kids with negative vibes through ignorance. I felt guilty as a parent for being harsh on my daughter, when it wasnt something she could readily control without counseling and training.

Having a child who is teased and has to deal with satirical comments at the age of 5, 8, 10 and even today at 14 does make me sensitive. You see, this sort of "satire" isnt reserved for forum threads. And its the adults to teach their children how to treat others. The funny thing is, its adults essentially being mean to kids, and teaching their kids to do the same

 

[LisaR]

You know, even a child in the top 1 percent of IQ couldn't teach himself advanced calculus at the age of eight. The kid who can is one in a million. Defining "giftedness" by that standard is basically the same as saying there's no such thing as "gifted".

Even Mensa takes the top 2%!

If a school has a very average population of 400, then there should be at least 8 kids who are "gifted" by Mensa standards. If you define gifted generously as the top 10 percent of the school population - then you've got 40 kids and enough to fill a couple classes. Of course, some schools will have more gifted kids, and some will have less, depending on socio-economic factors. A school located in a government town or technology center can reasonably expect to attract the children of some very bright, driven people.

It's true "gifted" can be defined too broadly, but it can also be defined SO narrowly it loses all meaning. Some common sense is called for here.

I don't disagree with you that the kid in the article is very rare. There are certainly all abilities between him and a child that is mentally challenged. But that is the reason why the word "gifted" is hated by so many. There is such a huge range of ability in there yet the word is used to describe a large majority of kids today.

Do school programs reflect these differences? Nope. I have no data to back this up but I am willing to bet big bucks that there isn't a school in the USA that has multiple levels of gifted programs. The earlier post by KimR shows 5 different levels from mildly gifted to profoundly gifted but we use the word inclusively. The kid with a 115 IQ isn't in the same league as the kid with the 180 IQ. Everyday we read on these boards about kids and grandkids that are "greatly gifted," "extremely gifted," etc. But like you, I agree that the kid that teaches himself calculus at 8 is a rarity. If he is rare, what do people mean when they say their child is "extremely gifted?"

Well, alrite, she is "advanced and advantaged" then. I was simply agreeing with the previous poster, who stated that she believes the large number of "gifted" (notice I quoted that) children are due to the fact that there are more and more ONLY children who are being RAISED predominately with adults. I didn't mention anyone being "prodded", because DD isn't "prodded" by adults, she just interacted with only adults until she was 4.

I disagree and I think we are fooling ourselves if we really think kids today are that much smarter than those from past generations.

The number one factor for our exceedingly high number of gifted students today is the dumbing down of education. Of course kids seem so much brighter. Teachers are forced to teach to the LCD. Where does that leave everyone else? They need to do something with those kids so they are labeled gifted.

The other factor that we will see more and more is the fact that parents are waiting so much longer to put their child in school. When little Johnny doesn't start kindergarten until he is 6 or 7, of course he is going to come across as bright. After all, he is in a classroom with kids that are 4 and 5. My son is 13 and in 8th grade. He has multiple friends that are in 6th and 7th grade that are the same age and have birthdays before him. Every single one is in a gifted program! My DD is 15, 10th grade and has experienced the same thing. I just read an article about a 16 year old that was in 8th grade. I don't know the story and he could have been held back but we know people in our neighborhood that are a grade or two behind but in gifted programs.

 

[smb6]

I have 5 kids; they all have things they are average in, above average in, and below average in. I think mostly people just like to brag on their kids. If your kid does something great, it is nature to want to share that with people because you are proud. If your child does poorly at something, most people don't want to share that- again, it's normal. Now, I'm sure there are some folks (as I have met them in everyday life) that always try to "one-up" everyone/ their child has to be the best (weather it's true or not) and this can certainly be annoying...
From a school standpoint; I think many kids simply learn differently and all kids (and adults) have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Scurvy]

I don't know where people get the idea that gifted is synonymous with genius because it is not, nor was it ever intended to be. In the context of the educational system it basically means academically talented - that is all. The schools use the term in order to identify those children who may benefit from a more accelerated curriculum (about 10% of the students in our district get placed in the gifted program). So no, not all kids are gifted. I'm sure it sometimes seems that way though, just due to the sheer volume of people who post on the DIS.

I do think that there are more children being called "gifted" these days than there used to be. That said, I have a different take on it than C. Ann and other previous posters. I don't necessarily think that children are actually smarter now. Years ago, classrooms were divided by ability level more than they are now. There were several reading or math groups and the kids went to the one that best fit their abilities, and they were surrounded by the students who were most like them. Now in the younger grades, most classes are a mix of all different ability levels. (That may be different in other areas, but it's the case with the school systems I've been involved with.) Typically, these classes tend to be taught to the middle or even thr lower end of the spectrum. I think there is more of a push to classify some children as gifted because that's the best way to pull them out and make sure they get challenged on occasion.

When I was in school, you could be tested and classified as "gifted" but there wasn't much point to it. Occasionally a child would move up a grade as a result of the testing but there really weren't any other special services for the gifted kids. If a parent wasn't willing for her child to skip a grade it was better not to even bother with the testing. If that was still the case, I wouldn't have bothered to have my son tested. But in his school system, there are all sorts of different classes and activities that are available to only the "Gifted and Talented" kids. When the school recommended that my son be tested, we only did it because he wanted to get into a robotics program and that was one of the options available to the gifted kids. Several other parents I talked to felt the same way - they only bothered with the testing so their kids could go on the extra field trips and be pulled out for the neat classes and demonstrations. They didn't care about the actual test results. The parents who weren't interested in the extra classes and trips didn't bother with the testing. Very few parents wanted the tests because they thought their kids were actually geniuses; they just thought they would enjoy or benefit from the extra opportunities available to those classified as gifted.

Once the kids hit the older grades, the gifted program pretty much fades away because there's no point in it. By middle school and high school there are honors classes available and between those and things like Math Club and Robotics (which are open to all students whose grades are high enough) most kids don't need the special services any longer.