Anyone have a high school student with an IEP?

[torinsmom]

I'm not gonna quote this time, as it is making the posts get so long

I try not to focus on what DS can't do. Math is very hard for him though. For the longest, I would just try to force it into his head. I thought he was being stubborn and just not trying. When I found out it was an actual LD(5th grade), I felt bad. He CAN learn math, it just takes him longer to grasp the concept. It seems like about the time the class moves on is when he gets it. And its not ALL math. He is amazing at things like matrices and geometry. It's the more abstract stuff like algebra and trigonometry that he gets stuck on. I WANT him to do the work, because I want him to be successful. I just want to the teachers to give him tools to help level the playing field when he needs them. I actually would rather them use the least amount of accommodations that will help him be successful. For example, he has extended time on tests on his IEP, but he has never needed that one.

I think I mentioned in the notes discussion before that his MS history teacher gave him fill in the blank notes. Those were GREAT, because he had to listen and read along, in order to know what went in the blanks. He knows how to take notes and does so in most classes. His notes are always incomplete though because he can't get it down that fast. I will mention the trading notes idea to his history teacher next year; that may work as a reasonable accommodation. I wish the school would provide a word processor for him to take notes, but they won't. It would help his typing skills. For homework assignments, he sometimes types. If its a worksheet, he will either handwrite or if it is a lot of writing, he will dictate the answers to me and I write them.

So far he is doing really well in computers. He has already done some programming on his own. That's a different type of math than algebra or trigonometry from what I understand. And he can compose his thoughts well. It is not the mental part of writing that he lacks, just the handwriting part. He writes(types) essays and stuff like that and did fine on his 7th grade writing test and his 10th grade practice writing test(the final grades are not in for this year)

I do appreciate your thoughts and hope I didn't come off otherwise. I am just frustrated right now with the whole situation.

Marsha

 

[Schmeck]

If he is serious about getting into computer programming, can he visit a workplace and see what he needs to be able to do to be successful there? I've found that to be the greatest motivator for some of my students - when they see all the stuff an adult has to be able to do in the workplace, they get a better visions of what they need to work on. A PP mentioned business meetings - no one is going to hand you a set of notes there, maybe some handouts, but the dynamics could change during the meeting, and everyone needs to keep up with what has been changed.

Another note - there is no 'level playing field' in the real world - that's the one thing you need to avoid assuming when you plan an IEP. The skills your son needs to learn will be the ones that bring him up to par for the field, the field will not lower itself to your son's level. The ADA does not cover a person who does not have the skills to do a job. That would be like asking someone else to do your work, but you get paid the same amount as the person doing his own work and yours too. Had that situation at work, the person, even having a disability, was fired because he could not perform his job without the rest of us pitching in to guide every move he made. That's not fair to the rest of us.

 

[tw1nsmom]

If he is serious about getting into computer programming, can he visit a workplace and see what he needs to be able to do to be successful there? I've found that to be the greatest motivator for some of my students - when they see all the stuff an adult has to be able to do in the workplace, they get a better visions of what they need to work on. A PP mentioned business meetings - no one is going to hand you a set of notes there, maybe some handouts, but the dynamics could change during the meeting, and everyone needs to keep up with what has been changed.

Another note - there is no 'level playing field' in the real world - that's the one thing you need to avoid assuming when you plan an IEP. The skills your son needs to learn will be the ones that bring him up to par for the field, the field will not lower itself to your son's level. The ADA does not cover a person who does not have the skills to do a job. That would be like asking someone else to do your work, but you get paid the same amount as the person doing his own work and yours too. Had that situation at work, the person, even having a disability, was fired because he could not perform his job without the rest of us pitching in to guide every move he made. That's not fair to the rest of us.

You know I get so tired of teachers that have lived in academia so long that they have no clue what goes on in the real world.

There are so many accommodations that adults in business can afford themselves to it's staggering. So much of the minutia that we learn in school is never used in the real world. I run a business with my husband, I've worked at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, I sit on several boards, I've gone through training to be a special education lay advocate and as an adult I've NEVER had to take notes during a meeting. There are ALWAYS handouts, power points, etc. Unless a student wants to be a secretary, taking notes in the real world will not be an issue.

There is also almost no point that I hand write a note anymore. Everything is on the computer. Math? Other than basic math (in which a calculator is used) I rarely use any of the math that I learned in high school.

My brother has a major reading/writing learning disability. He owns/runs a business that grosses over 15 million a year.

Adults can put themselves in situations that play to their strengths, and certainly everyone uses a plethora of technology to get through their day. It's only in school that using a digital recorder, a pda, a laptop...becomes this insurmountable "thing" that just can't happen.

I'm hearing more excuses from teachers on this thread than I am from the OP. If you had a blind student would you expect them to write notes or listen to the lecture? If you had a student with Cerebral Palsy would you force them to take notes even though they couldn't grip a pencil? Yes, children with learning disabilities are more work, but they CAN learn.

If it is determined that a child needs certain accommodations to learn and it is put in the IEP then teachers are legally obligated to give those accommodations. Period. An interesting fact. There is a fairly recent court case that pertains to this. A student has an IEP. The school agrees that said student needs certain accommodations/modifications. A teacher refuses/fails to follow the IEP even after it is brought to their attention and they are requested by the parents and school to do so. The parents sue and win the case against the teacher since the teacher is now breaking federal law and is acting on their own as opposed to following district guidelines.

 

[WDWMom]

I have not read all the posts but I can explain what services my DS gets (freshman).

He is in a class similar to your son's. We call it study skills. He has it everyday to complete homwork, touch base with teachers, finish test. He can have any test read to him if he chooses during the time when others are taking the test. He just needs to let his study skills teacher know the day before. Sometimes he does have it read, sometimes not. He also has more time to finish a test if he needs it. There is no set time, but usually ASAP when it works in study skills or someone to read it to him. As far as assignments, he can have longer to do projects if he lets his teachers know in advance. He can not go in that day and tell them, he must let them know in advance and show some sign of progress.

All this is written in his IEP. I'm not sure how each state works, but in MI parents, teachers, admin, and student meet once a year (usually in the spring) to review year, expectations and add anything we think DS needs. 8th grade I add that he needs a copy of each textbook to keep at home. He has asthma and can be home 2-3 days sometimes and it is helpful to have them at home and not worry about getting them from school, when most teachers just e-mail assignments. It was no problem so he has a copy at school and a copy at home. No bringing books back and forth or forgetting them.

Hope this helps.

 

[Schmeck]

You know I get so tired of teachers that have lived in academia so long that they have no clue what goes on in the real world.

There are so many accommodations that adults in business can afford themselves to it's staggering. So much of the minutia that we learn in school is never used in the real world. I run a business with my husband, I've worked at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, I sit on several boards, I've gone through training to be a special education lay advocate and as an adult I've NEVER had to take notes during a meeting. There are ALWAYS handouts, power points, etc. Unless a student wants to be a secretary, taking notes in the real world will not be an issue.

There is also almost no point that I hand write a note anymore. Everything is on the computer. Math? Other than basic math (in which a calculator is used) I rarely use any of the math that I learned in high school.

My brother has a major reading/writing learning disability. He owns/runs a business that grosses over 15 million a year.

Adults can put themselves in situations that play to their strengths, and certainly everyone uses a plethora of technology to get through their day. It's only in school that using a digital recorder, a pda, a laptop...becomes this insurmountable "thing" that just can't happen.

I'm hearing more excuses from teachers on this thread than I am from the OP. If you had a blind student would you expect them to write notes or listen to the lecture? If you had a student with Cerebral Palsy would you force them to take notes even though they couldn't grip a pencil? Yes, children with learning disabilities are more work, but they CAN learn.

Wow...

Yes, getting handouts and powerpoints at meetings are great, but what if the info changes during the meeting? Are you relying on someone else to get the changes to you, or do you memorize it all and document it later? Just sitting in on PTA meetings, IEP meetings, etc, there have been so many new ideas brought to the table that I've taken copious notes, notes my own input on certain ideas, etc. I'd never rely on anyone else to document the stuff I think is important. I guess some business people don't feel the need to cover their behinds that way?

You don't handwrite thank yous, cards, etc? You just send an email? How about an application for a job? You walk into the grocery store to apply, they hand you a clipboard with a 4 page application and a pen.

How about basic math skills for shopping - which brand is the better buy, the shelf labels can be in different units, so straight comparison won't work. Id the register receipt correct - did the programmer get it right, or did the store just rip you off for $$$?

Our blind student was training to take notes in class while listening - she had a device available. She had lots of devices, and was expected to use them. Our student with CP also took notes, using a keyboard with icons.

I've taken students with disabilities into the real world - it's not all business meetings filled with technology. There are bus schedules, snail mail, applications, and contracts. There's processing paperwork, or even reading pages of files on a computer. How about reading a tech manual, calculating the amount of a product you need to buy, estimating the size of something, checking your online banking statement? How about having people you have to trust to take care of the things you haven't mastered, and finding that they have been ripping you off?

These are all things that my students have come up against out there in the real world. Luckily, we've been able to work with them to find out how they can approach these tasks and be successful in navigating for themselves.

How does your brother manage all the contracts and legal stuff? I'd be interested in his strategies, as they may help some of our students.

 

[tw1nsmom]

Wow...

Yes, getting handouts and powerpoints at meetings are great, but what if the info changes during the meeting? Are you relying on someone else to get the changes to you, or do you memorize it all and document it later? Just sitting in on PTA meetings, IEP meetings, etc, there have been so many new ideas brought to the table that I've taken copious notes, notes my own input on certain ideas, etc. I'd never rely on anyone else to document the stuff I think is important. I guess some business people don't feel the need to cover their behinds that way?

You don't handwrite thank yous, cards, etc? You just send an email? How about an application for a job? You walk into the grocery store to apply, they hand you a clipboard with a 4 page application and a pen.

How about basic math skills for shopping - which brand is the better buy, the shelf labels can be in different units, so straight comparison won't work. Id the register receipt correct - did the programmer get it right, or did the store just rip you off for $$$?

Our blind student was training to take notes in class while listening - she had a device available. She had lots of devices, and was expected to use them. Our student with CP also took notes, using a keyboard with icons.

I've taken students with disabilities into the real world - it's not all business meetings filled with technology. There are bus schedules, snail mail, applications, and contracts. There's processing paperwork, or even reading pages of files on a computer. How about reading a tech manual, calculating the amount of a product you need to buy, estimating the size of something, checking your online banking statement? How about having people you have to trust to take care of the things you haven't mastered, and finding that they have been ripping you off?

These are all things that my students have come up against out there in the real world. Luckily, we've been able to work with them to find out how they can approach these tasks and be successful in navigating for themselves.

How does your brother manage all the contracts and legal stuff? I'd be interested in his strategies, as they may help some of our students.

Jotting down a note or two on the margins of a power point handout is very different from being expected to take copious notes in a meeting or class. I personally don't have a learning disability and I still digitally record all IEP meetings I go to for my son so that I can review things later. Sitting there taking dictation would keep me from being an active participant in the meetings. There is also a secretary present to take official notes. This is true at most board meetings as well. If I had a writing disability like the OP's son I would bring in a laptop if need be to take notes. This is also a very, very common accommodation that would allow the student in question to have autonomy and take his own notes and one that the OP's school apparently refuses to do. The individual teachers appear to also be refusing to comply with the request for giving copies of notes.

Yes, in the real world there are occasional times I hand write something. Rare, but occasional. In the cases that you describe, if a person had a true motor disability and/or dysgraphia most, if not all places would have no problem accepting a request that applications and forms be filled out on the computer, or taken and brought back. Again, this isn't a matter of just practicing to fix the problem. There are disabilities out there that keep a person from being able to write legibly.

Also, if you read what I said about math, I said that in the real world you use a calculator. I don't often have to recall my times tables and if I had a math disability it would be an easy accommodation as an adult. I also know many adults who do very well with their organization only because they have electronic planners.

When it comes to writing, I think you're confusing the importance of the content of writing versus the mechanical act of writing. OF course it would be better for the OP's son to be able to use handwriting fluidly. However if he could, he wouldn't have a disability.


My point is, I've worked with many people who had illegible handwriting. Some may have had a disability and some probably didn't. It is much less of an issue in this era than it was 20 years ago. However, some schools haven't kept up with the times. They seem to see handwriting notes as a right of passage for ALL students, even those whose hands don't work correctly. In the OP's case it is the teachers not doing the work since it has already been determined that teacher notes is a necessary accommodation on his IEP.

If working on functional handwriting (so that they can fill out forms in the "real world")is a goal on a students IEP, then that goal should be worked on with an OT or in resource. A student shouldn't work on this skill to the detriment of learning content in academic courses.