Anyone else struggling with the climate of evasiveness?

[BeachClub2014]

Why does it have to be a binary choice? We aren’t renting hotel rooms. We may not have representation on the board, but we are timeshare owners who should have a say. I like DVC as a product, but want to see changes, and public opinion campaigns can be very effective. That’s why I don’t like the “if you don’t like it sell it” line.

We don't disagree on that. It isn't a binary option or choice. I have never been in the "if you don't like it, sell it" camp, as that is just too condescending and dismissive for me. I'm just saying that trusting TWDC isn't a concern for me because I don't have to "trust" the corporation to consume their products.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

My home resort filled up, and I mean 100% of room categories, with walkers two weeks before my intended travel dates opened to book. It was a bloodbath and I only got half the days I needed. So there’s that. But yes, generally you are correct.

The intended point of this thread, I believe, was the change in behavior from DVD lately. Putting all the straw mans aside, my opinion is that I agree with the OP and I don’t trust DVD to do the right thing that makes financial sense for them and is good for the owners of the product anymore. They have shown time and again to not only prioritize profit over experience, but to do so to the exclusion of experience.

Just wondering what is your home resort, if you feel comfortable saying?

For me it isn’t that I don’t trust Disney to do what is right for the customer. I am more concerned that Disney isn’t hiring on merit and therefore their management team is generally garbage. They make decisions that don’t even make financial sense. (Really obvious example- let’s make movies without a coherent story arch that no one wants to see). They don’t seem to even be on top of basic operations. I rarely see management around and when I do they are not involved (there are a few exceptions to this one). Employees often seem lost and disconnected from the product. There is a malaise about the place. They put policies in place that don’t entirely make sense and that they obviously aren’t fully sure about themselves— like resale restrictions. When you go over to universal you see where all the old Disney employees are.

 

[Sandisw]

I am not trying to sound bougie at all, the harsh reality is that the however many million of CFW points that are sold are going to disproportionately affect 7 month availability at resorts that people actually want to stay at. The same way that SSR and OKW do now, and I say that thinking both of those resorts are nice if just not my cup of tea. When VGF added BPK, it didn’t add millions of points to the whole DVC system via rooms that nobody wanted to book, it added rooms at a highly desired resort that people could book at 7 months. CFW takes more than it gives, I will bet you 100 bucks that 7 month availability is on par with SSR and OKW because people who own there are trading into more desirable resorts. How is that not a net negative on the system?

Because that is the nature of the program? I am not a fan of AKV and could say a lot of those points declare the resorts I consider more deluxe?

And, we have no idea yet who will buy and how trading at 7 months will work.

Then again, people should have never expected access to all the other resort in any particular way and that trades at 7 months will still be FCFS.

There are also people, like me, and others who have said they will occasionally stay here which frees up other rooms as well.

I am just saying that I don’t see it as negative to the program.

 

[lowlight]

Just wondering what is your home resort, if you feel comfortable saying?

I have 3 contracts, but VGF was the one in question.

I am not a fan of AKV and could say a lot of those points declare the resorts I consider more deluxe?

I wasn’t trying to be subjective. I was using hard evidence (ie availability at 7 months and value of points on free market). I wasn’t saying in my personal opinion OKW and SSR are garbage or not bougie enough, just the opposite I thought I would hate them both, but after staying there I loved them (but not as park going options for me). It’s like HH, it’s a great resort, but you can’t tell me the off season points aren’t being offloaded into resorts people want to stay in when it’s not great vacation times at HHI. I know people keep picking the straw man of me saying these resorts aren’t deluxe enough, but I never said that (except about the cabins which I agree). They are less desirable resorts for (insert any reason), which leads to a glut of people trying to trade out their points to VGF, BCV etc at 7 months. Nobody at VGF is trading their points at 7 months to SSR.

 

[tidefan]

I have 3 contracts, but VGF was the one in question.



I wasn’t trying to be subjective. I was using hard evidence (ie availability at 7 months and value of points on free market). I wasn’t saying in my personal opinion OKW and SSR are garbage or not bougie enough, just the opposite I thought I would hate them both, but after staying there I loved them (but not as park going options for me). It’s like HH, it’s a great resort, but you can’t tell me the off season points aren’t being offloaded into resorts people want to stay in when it’s not great vacation times at HHI. I know people keep picking the straw man of me saying these resorts aren’t deluxe enough, but I never said that (except about the cabins which I agree). They are less desirable resorts for (insert any reason), which leads to a glut of people trying to trade out their points to VGF, BCV etc at 7 months. Nobody at VGF is trading their points at 7 months to SSR.

Actually... I am doing just that this July as we are grabbing a GV at SSR. We actually haven't used our VGF points at VGF since 2019. I've lost faith in VGF due to the hotel rooms being added and how hard it is now to get a deluxe studio, but I digress.

To take issue with one of your earlier posts about "no demand" at SSR, you are probably partially correct, however, I think that there is actually a good bit of demand at SSR (due to friendly point charts, the recent renovation, great pools, and of course, Gideon's). However the bigger issue at SSR is supply. There is just so much inventory there, it seems to always be available (of course, though, even here, December is starting to get tight...)

 

[Sandisw]

I have 3 contracts, but VGF was the one in question.



I wasn’t trying to be subjective. I was using hard evidence (ie availability at 7 months and value of points on free market). I wasn’t saying in my personal opinion OKW and SSR are garbage or not bougie enough, just the opposite I thought I would hate them both, but after staying there I loved them (but not as park going options for me). It’s like HH, it’s a great resort, but you can’t tell me the off season points aren’t being offloaded into resorts people want to stay in when it’s not great vacation times at HHI. I know people keep picking the straw man of me saying these resorts aren’t deluxe enough, but I never said that (except about the cabins which I agree). They are less desirable resorts for (insert any reason), which leads to a glut of people trying to trade out their points to VGF, BCV etc at 7 months. Nobody at VGF is trading their points at 7 months to SSR.

My point was that while you see this property as a negative property to the system, not everyone does. When you buy DVC you know what properties are in the system and know that future properties can join.

So, trading is trading while you may not use VGF points at SSR, I have (and will be again next January). Everyone has their likes and dislikes and while I agree that some people buy certain resorts for SAP...my SSR points are in fact that...it doesn't devalue the system IMO...it gives us a lot more variety of choices as owners.

Unless I am misunderstanding, it seems like what you are saying is that those who own at the less popular resorts and want to trade into the popular resorts should not have the option and that only popular resort owners should be able to trade into other popular locations?

In the end, if you own where you want to stay, the what others are doing for trading isn't really a big deal, is it?

 

[walt34]

Nobody at VGF is trading their points at 7 months to SSR.

Why not? I have. For people who bought VGF direct last summer, it was a comparatively low direct price and the dues per point are the lowest in the system. It was one of the cheaper ways to get and maintain DVC-Y these days and VGF is only expensive for those actually staying there. So there is a lot of incentive to use VGF points at other resorts. (BTW, I also love the 'hotel rooms' at BPK - I'm not overcrowding your precious deluxe studios).

 

[DVCsloth]

To be fair, OKW is the original DVC resort, so it probably shouldn't be lumped into the argument.

As an owner at BCV, is it bougie of me to be irritated when lowbrow owners of VGF or BLT use their points at my premium resort?

My point is that one of the foundational principles of DVC is the ability to use points (setting restrictions aside for the moment) across the system. It seems to work, as there is system-wide tension on availability for much of the year.

Sorry, I'm guilty of using my VGF points at BCV from time to time. DW loves VGF so I need to sneak in a non-home resort once in a while. Edit: Also used them at Riviera, CCV and OKW, it's one of the perks of owning DVC Imo.

 

[lowlight]

Why not? I have. For people who bought VGF direct last summer, it was a comparatively low direct price and the dues per point are the lowest in the system. It was one of the cheaper ways to get and maintain DVC-Y these days and VGF is only expensive for those actually staying there. So there is a lot of incentive to use VGF points at other resorts. (BTW, I also love the 'hotel rooms' at BPK - I'm not overcrowding your precious deluxe studios).

What are you emotionally hurt about? You’re making this very personal and seem to want to argue. The data is there- they are the least popular (not like high school prom popular, like demand popular) resorts out the. I’m sorry that it hurts your feelings, I’m not disparaging the resorts, it’s the free market speaking.

 

[tidefan]

Why not? I have. For people who bought VGF direct last summer, it was a comparatively low direct price and the dues per point are the lowest in the system. It was one of the cheaper ways to get and maintain DVC-Y these days and VGF is only expensive for those actually staying there. So there is a lot of incentive to use VGF points at other resorts. (BTW, I also love the 'hotel rooms' at BPK - I'm not overcrowding your precious deluxe studios).

Good. This is why BPK should have been it's own association to begin with. For those of us that just liked VGF the way it was, it would have been a better solution.

FWIW, I have no issue with people liking the hotel rooms in BPK, but for those of us that prefer the 'precious' Deluxe Studios, the addition of BPK to the association has very much affected our ability to book them.

 

[walt34]

Nobody at VGF is trading their points at 7 months to SSR.

What are you emotionally hurt about? You’re making this very personal and seem to want to argue. The data is there- they are the least popular (not like high school prom popular, like demand popular) resorts out the. I’m sorry that it hurts your feelings, I’m not disparaging the resorts, it’s the free market speaking.

I gave you an example of somebody who does. Because you said 'nobody', your statement is disproven. There is nothing emotional about any of this - at least on my side.

 

[lowlight]

I gave you an example of somebody who does. Because you said 'nobody', your statement is disproven. There is nothing emotional about any of this - at least on my side.

Yes, “almost nobody” is better. Never underestimate people I always say.

 

[Genie+]

Why not? I have. For people who bought VGF direct last summer, it was a comparatively low direct price and the dues per point are the lowest in the system. It was one of the cheaper ways to get and maintain DVC-Y these days and VGF is only expensive for those actually staying there. So there is a lot of incentive to use VGF points at other resorts. (BTW, I also love the 'hotel rooms' at BPK - I'm not overcrowding your precious deluxe studios).

Haha the funny thing is we bought last summer and used the points at SSR for my niece in December.

I don’t feel we got bad use of those points. We booked in June and that’s what was left. A fine fit for a newlywed couple who’d like to go to Disney Springs for a few meals and drinks, and the refurb very nicely done.

 

[Rex1993]

Wow! This thread sure has gotten heated. I get it. We’re on Disboards because we’re passionate about DVC. There’s a lot of different perspectives and that is what it is. I straddle a lot of fences in these arguments. I bought VGF direct this past summer but only book stays in 2 bedrooms. I’ve used VGC points to book Kidani at two weeks out and it was one of the best vacations we’ve ever had. I tell people that they can always sell because at least there is a healthy secondary market. And I get horribly frustrated with how DVC runs the associations with no real accountability to owners while at the same time saying they’re doing it better than 95% of timeshares. Life is full of contradictions, DVC ownership isn’t any different.

 

[DougEMG]

While CFW is not my cup of tea for a number of reasons, I think they are going to be popular because of the low point cost of the rooms. If there is on thing that DVC members have shown is that they like inexpensive rooms. So I'm not too worried about those rooms causing any kind of imbalance at 7 months. If CFW look to trade out I'm sure there will be others looking to trade in.

To me Alauni, HH, Vero, the cabins at CCR and bungalows at POLY have a much bigger impact on 7 month availability as I think there are more points looking to trade out from those resorts/rooms than trade into them.

As for DVC, I would be more concerned about them making a lot of changes to the ownership system in the trust model and the amount of additional power they are giving themselves at the expense of owners.

 

[Lorana]

I am not trying to sound bougie at all, the harsh reality is that the however many million of CFW points that are sold are going to disproportionately affect 7 month availability at resorts that people actually want to stay at. The same way that SSR and OKW do now, and I say that thinking both of those resorts are nice if just not my cup of tea. When VGF added BPK, it didn’t add millions of points to the whole DVC system via rooms that nobody wanted to book, it added rooms at a highly desired resort that people could book at 7 months. CFW takes more than it gives, I will bet you 100 bucks that 7 month availability is on par with SSR and OKW because people who own there are trading into more desirable resorts. How is that not a net negative on the system?

I definitely hear what you are saying, though (and I could be wrong) I feel like the people buying at CFW are buying there because they really, really want to stay there, given the high cost, low incentives, and high dues. If you were buying DVC for more of the flexibility -- even if you didn't know about the resale market -- I feel like you'd be buying RIV, not CFW. But I could be wrong.

 

[Lorana]

I thought this was there for DVD to be able to get back 2 100 point contracts and sell them as one 150 and one 50 points contract (which nobody but DVD can do).

Only if both 100-point contracts are for the same unit. When I just got my VGC contracts, I had to do them as 2-100 point contracts as they were different units. I ended up splitting them into 4-50 points (which as you noted DVD can do) to give me more flexibility in the future if we want to downgrade or pass along to children.

 

[Lorana]

As an owner at BCV, is it bougie of me to be irritated when lowbrow owners of VGF or BLT use their points at my premium resort?

at least you didn't include us RIV owners swapping out for BCV when we can. ;-)

Honestly, if it weren't for the 2042 expiration date and still relatively high resale costs, I'd probably own some points at BCV. My BFF and I like to do a long weekend there every 1-2 years, and trying to grab rooms at 7 months and then waiting for waitlists to clear is just so stressful, lol.

 

[BeachClub2014]

at least you didn't include us RIV owners swapping out for BCV when we can. ;-)

Honestly, if it weren't for the 2042 expiration date and still relatively high resale costs, I'd probably own some points at BCV. My BFF and I like to do a long weekend there every 1-2 years, and trying to grab rooms at 7 months and then waiting for waitlists to clear is just so stressful, lol.

Lol, well I also own at RIV so totally get it!

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

... I think that there is actually a good bit of demand at SSR due to friendly point charts...

...the recent renovation...

... great pools...

... and of course, Gideon's.