Anyone else live in a "No cheating zone"?

[robinb]

Today a poster got nasty with another poster over PIZZA crust and their lack of taste..(all it was was a thread of Can you recommend ? )..
incredible even pizza isn't safe

I can completely understand a fight about pizza! I grew up in Chicago.

 

[Luvchefmic]

All i have to say is that you can never be 100% sure you have never been cheated on, thats just being delusional!

In your HUMBLE opinion right ?

 

[Imzadi]

Today a poster got nasty with another poster over PIZZA crust and their lack of taste..(all it was was a thread of Can you recommend ? )..
incredible even pizza isn't safe

I can completely understand a fight about pizza! I grew up in Chicago.

In NYC there IS no fight or debate. You've ever had our famous NYC crispy crust pizza or you've had the rest of the world's soft, soggy, limp, overly-chewy, DOUGHY crust pizza. End of topic. Period.


As to all the dissenters to this thread, me thinks they are part of/ or are heading toward / or secretly fear that their marriages are of the 60% that aren't as solid as they claim to be. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. What's WRONG with people bragging/thanking the Universe that they've been gifted with a great, strong, trustworthy relationship?

WHY the need to get so heated and emotionally invested as to respond, otherwise? If this thread didn't apply to you, there is a scroll button. Plenty of threads on the DIS. Plenty people read and don't respond to. We never lack for threads. The intriguing thing is when people feel compelled to respond then say there was no need for the thread. . .

 

[Luvchefmic]

In NYC there IS no fight or debate. You've ever had our famous NYC crispy crust pizza or you've had the rest of the world's soft, soggy, limp, overly-chewy, DOUGHY crust pizza. End of topic. Period.


As to all the dissenters to this thread, me thinks they are part of/ or are heading toward / or secretly fear that their marriages are of the 60% that aren't as solid as they claim to be. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. What's WRONG with people bragging/thanking the Universe that they've been gifted with a great, strong, trustworthy relationship?

WHY would the need to get so heated and emotionally invested as to respond, otherwise? If this thread didn't apply to you, there is a scroll button. Plenty of threads on the DIS. We never lack for threads.

for everything you said and YES including the pizza !

 

[Imzadi]

for everything you said and YES including the pizza !

Thanks.




(I'll PayPal you the payment later. )

 

[Luvchefmic]

Thanks.




(I'll PayPal you the payment later. )

good I need to buy hay

 

[Vixen]

In your HUMBLE opinion right ?

yep lol!

 

[Luvchefmic]

yep lol!

There you go

 

[disykat]

In NYC there IS no fight or debate. You've ever had our famous NYC crispy crust pizza or you've had the rest of the world's soft, soggy, limp, overly-chewy, DOUGHY crust pizza. End of topic. Period.


As to all the dissenters to this thread, me thinks they are part of/ or are heading toward / or secretly fear that their marriages are of the 60% that aren't as solid as they claim to be. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. What's WRONG with people bragging/thanking the Universe that they've been gifted with a great, strong, trustworthy relationship?

WHY the need to get so heated and emotionally invested as to respond, otherwise? If this thread didn't apply to you, there is a scroll button. Plenty of threads on the DIS. Plenty people read and don't respond to. We never lack for threads. The intriguing thing is when people feel compelled to respond then say there was no need for the thread. . .

I'm replying because it's a conversation. It's interesting, if somewhat horrifying that so many think fidelity is that unusual. I'm very thankful that I'm in a monogomous relationship - I just don't think it's that unusual. I guess I'm not that big of a sceptic. What people don't seem to understand is that many of us who you are calling negative are trying to defend the institution of marriage. We think the notion that fidelity in marriage is rare degrades marriage in general. (gee - I wonder where people get the idea cheating is okay?) Sorry, I will continue to believe fidelity is pretty much the heart of marriage not just something only a few people consider important.

 

[sunnyday123]

OP, the way you phrased your original post was off-putting to a lot of people -

"Anyone else out there manage to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or refuse to get married unless monogamy is part of the deal?"

That question infers judgement on people who are in unhappy marriages. I don't know anyone who entered a marriage assuming that there would be infidelity, yet I have a few friends who have suffered through that pain. Imagine how the people on this board who have not been graced with good relationships feel when they read your question.

Your intention may have been to celebrate good marriages, but that did not translate with your choice of words.

Thank you!! And this is what the OP doesn't get. I am thrilled that there are many people here who have good marriages! I don't get offended OR depressed if someone talks about how great their spouse is, but the OP doesn't get that she continually comes off judgemental and condescending, and continually says people are being mean or arguing because they are trying to explain how her post came across to them.

This has really-considering how heated somes threads get-one of the most reasonably-discussed topics I've ever come across. No one is saying you don't have the right to talk about how great your marriage is. They're just saying NO ONE walked down the aisle saying ,"Well, this sure isn't a no cheat zone!" or intentially married someone who they knew would cheat.

 

[Imzadi]

I'm replying because it's a conversation. It's interesting, if somewhat horrifying that so many think fidelity is that unusual. I'm very thankful that I'm in a monogomous relationship - I just don't think it's that unusual. I guess I'm not that big of a sceptic. What people don't seem to understand is that many of us who you are calling negative are trying to defend the institution of marriage. We think the notion that fidelity in marriage is rare degrades marriage in general. (gee - I wonder where people get the idea cheating is okay?) Sorry, I will continue to believe fidelity is pretty much the heart of marriage not just something only a few achieve.

I have no problem with us discussing marriage in this conversation. Just clarifying that there should be no debate on the best pizza topic.

As for the marriage, I'm speaking statistically. With over 50% (closer to 60% in some reports,) of marriages now end in divorce. Studies show that most end from fights over money. Probably a high percentage also end from not sitting down and having serious, heart to heart discussions about whether they have shared values and life goals. There used to be a time when pre-marital counseling was the norm. Another amount probably fail due to not knowing how to resolve their conflicts. But, there probably is a great percentage where infidelity occurs in that close to 60% of failed marriages.

Personally speaking, as someone who has come from abuse, have been in abusive, lying and unfaithful relationships, and counsels women in domestic violence & abusive relationships, (infidelity may or may not be part of it,) in my particular environment, happy, successful marriages are not the norm. (I am not a marriage counselor.)

I'm still hoping and holding out to find ONE great guy. Stories like from the OP and others, and the recent, "Why do you love your SO" give me hope and affirmation that they are out there. They are kind of unreal for me, given my environment and circumstances. So threads like this are a nice reminder that they do happen and are possible.


Again, I have to wonder why this thread would be so horrifying to you. If you are certain that your particular marriage is really so strong, professionally speaking, I can tell you, this thread wouldn't have such an emotional reaction on you.

For example, if I say, "The sky is blue," you wouldn't have an emotional reaction, unless you are a meteorologist/scientist, who has to correct me in saying, "The sky is not really blue, it is reflected light... yada." Or, if you are an artist, who needs to correct me, "No, actually the sky today is cerulean with touches of azure." Those two people would have a natural and expected emotional response to someone saying "The sky is blue." To everyone else, it would either be information or opinion. They may have their own thoughts about it, but it usually doesn't register enough to get a response.

But, when there is an intense emotional response to something, we counselors, (profilers and lawyers too, they call it a trigger,) pay attention to the stuff that registers high on the emotional response meter. Especially when people are proclaiming, "Why is this such a big deal?" If it's NOT a big deal, it really would barely register enough to even get any response.

OP, the way you phrased your original post was off-putting to a lot of people -

"Anyone else out there manage to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or refuse to get married unless monogamy is part of the deal?"

That question infers judgement on people who are in unhappy marriages. I don't know anyone who entered a marriage assuming that there would be infidelity, yet I have a few friends who have suffered through that pain.

Thank you!! And this is what the OP doesn't get. I am thrilled that there are many people here who have good marriages! I don't get offended OR depressed if someone talks about how great their spouse is, but the OP doesn't get that she continually comes off judgemental and condescending, and continually says people are being mean or arguing because they are trying to explain how her post came across to them.

This has really-considering how heated some threads get-one of the most reasonably-discussed topics I've ever come across. No one is saying you don't have the right to talk about how great your marriage is. They're just saying NO ONE walked down the aisle saying ,"Well, this sure isn't a no cheat zone!" or intentionally married someone who they knew would cheat.

I explained a couple paragraphs above my situation. I hope I manage to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or lying or abuse. That is not reflection on what anyone else has been through. I certainly don't mean it personally when I hope & say that. I'm still trying to figure out if I can even recognize a guy who actually won't cheat or hit. That is about ME, not anyone else.

If others have managed to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or hitting, more power to them!!! I want to know HOW they did it. Obviously, in the relationships I've been in, and many of the women I am acquainted with, we can't find or recognize these guys.

 

[LuvOrlando]

I have no problem with us discussing marriage in this conversation. Just clarifying that there should be no debate on the best pizza topic.

As for the marriage, I'm speaking statistically. With over 50% (closer to 60% in some reports,) of marriages now end in divorce. Studies show that most end from fights over money. Probably a high percentage also end from not sitting down and having serious, heart to heart discussions about whether they have shared values and life goals. There used to be a time when pre-marital counseling was the norm. Another amount probably fail due to not knowing how to resolve their conflicts. But, there probably is a great percentage where infidelity occurs in that close to 60% of failed marriages.

Personally speaking, as someone who has come from abuse, have been in abusive, lying and unfaithful relationships, and counsels women in domestic violence & abusive relationships, (infidelity may or may not be part of it,) in my particular environment, happy, successful marriages are not the norm. (I am not a marriage counselor.)

I'm still hoping and holding out to find ONE great guy. Stories like from the OP and others, and the recent, "Why do you love your SO" give me hope and affirmation that they are out there. They are kind of unreal for me, given my environment and circumstances. So threads like this are a nice reminder that they do happen and are possible.


Again, I have to wonder why this thread would be so horrifying to you. If you are certain that your particular marriage is really so strong, professionally speaking, I can tell you, this thread wouldn't have such an emotional reaction on you.

For example, if I say, "The sky is blue," you wouldn't have an emotional reaction, unless you are a meteorologist/scientist, who has to correct me in saying, "The sky is not really blue, it is reflected light... yada." Or, if you are an artist, who needs to correct me, "No, actually the sky today is cerulean with touches of azure." Those two people would have a natural and expected emotional response to someone saying "The sky is blue." To everyone else, it would either be information or opinion. They may have their own thoughts about it, but it usually doesn't register enough to get a response.

But, when there is an intense emotional response to something, we counselors, (profilers and lawyers too, they call it a trigger,) pay attention to the stuff that registers high on the emotional response meter. Especially when people are proclaiming, "Why is this such a big deal?" If it's NOT a big deal, it really would barely register enough to even get any response.







I explained a couple paragraphs above my situation. I hope I manage to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or lying or abuse. That is not reflection on what anyone else has been through. I certainly don't mean it personally when I hope & say that. I'm still trying to figure out if I can even recognize a guy who actually won't cheat or hit. That is about ME, not anyone else.

If others have managed to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or hitting, more power to them!!! I want to know HOW they did it. Obviously, in the relationships I've been in, and many of the women I am acquainted with, we can't find or recognize these guys.

I also came from a horrific abusive home so when I say I 'managed' to find this gem of a relationship I was speaking about my own personal quest. The statement is about me and the reality that statistically I was doomed to repeat the mistakes I was taught. My statements have absolutely nothing to do with other people but are about the fact that to me, upside down and messed up 'feels' normal so I am out of the norm grateful for I made the choices I made. For me, the 2 great loves I had before my DH included 1 guy who beat me and another who was a serial womanizer. Being where I am took and continues to take a great deal of effort. Sure, to some people being normal is easy breezy but in my case, there is nothing at all normal about being normal, in fact it's absolutely foreign and took some getting used to. Anyone who makes the mistake of thinking I've lived a charmed life is completely off the mark. The fact that I managed to do anything at all healthy after the mess I grew up in is as amazing a personal accomplishment as a normal person climbing MT. Rushmore or getting a Nobel Prize. Growing up I wanted so desperately to find a stable home where I could heal but I completely lacked the skills I needed to achieve that goal. So for me my Faith became a road-map. Not everyone needs the straight and narrow but I plainly did, on my own I was a catastrophic mess. Every day I wake up and cant believe the life I live is mine, and every day I am fearful something or someone is going to tear it all away from me. My 'No cheating zone' isn't about being better than others, it's about living with the knowledge that I am an extremely fragile human being and that I couldn't possibly survive a soul shattering bombshell such as my DH cheating on me. I am completely cut off from the family I came from, i have no-one other than my DH and kids. My DH knows this so if he ever did stray it would be much more then him chasing a skirt. I had no healthy marriage to learn from and no loving parents to teach me about love, at best they taught me what NOT to do, so I have always looked outside to emulate others. When you grow up in a war zone you either accept it and adopt it or you look outside your window for a clue. My entire life has been created by observing relationships I wanted and modeling myself after the behaviors that seemed most likely to achieve those goals. I call myself a quilt all the time because I am a collection of all the people I've known and the small kindnesses they granted me. I learned to say I love you from one friend's family, I learned what a nice man was from my Grandma's second husband, I learned how to talk to my kids from another friend's family, i learned how to help my kids with homework from another family and on and on. So this particular thread is and always was just that, a request that others who have taken the road I've chosen further than me so I could hear that it really can continue. It's not about being smug, it's about being unsure.

So if even after this post if there is anyone out there who still wants to hate me go right ahead. But I wouldn't keep trying to draw blood expecting to get any. The only people I bleed for are the Man upstairs, my DH and my kids, that's just the way it is. My explanation is only meant for the people who are genuinely hurt because they misunderstood me, no-one else. I have no desire to go around making anyone else's life harder than it already is.

 

[disykat]

I have no problem with us discussing marriage in this conversation. Just clarifying that there should be no debate on the best pizza topic.

As for the marriage, I'm speaking statistically. With over 50% (closer to 60% in some reports,) of marriages now end in divorce. Studies show that most end from fights over money. Probably a high percentage also end from not sitting down and having serious, heart to heart discussions about whether they have shared values and life goals. There used to be a time when pre-marital counseling was the norm. Another amount probably fail due to not knowing how to resolve their conflicts. But, there probably is a great percentage where infidelity occurs in that close to 60% of failed marriages.

Personally speaking, as someone who has come from abuse, have been in abusive, lying and unfaithful relationships, and counsels women in domestic violence & abusive relationships, (infidelity may or may not be part of it,) in my particular environment, happy, successful marriages are not the norm. (I am not a marriage counselor.)

I'm still hoping and holding out to find ONE great guy. Stories like from the OP and others, and the recent, "Why do you love your SO" give me hope and affirmation that they are out there. They are kind of unreal for me, given my environment and circumstances. So threads like this are a nice reminder that they do happen and are possible.


Again, I have to wonder why this thread would be so horrifying to you. If you are certain that your particular marriage is really so strong, professionally speaking, I can tell you, this thread wouldn't have such an emotional reaction on you.

For example, if I say, "The sky is blue," you wouldn't have an emotional reaction, unless you are a meteorologist/scientist, who has to correct me in saying, "The sky is not really blue, it is reflected light... yada." Or, if you are an artist, who needs to correct me, "No, actually the sky today is cerulean with touches of azure." Those two people would have a natural and expected emotional response to someone saying "The sky is blue." To everyone else, it would either be information or opinion. They may have their own thoughts about it, but it usually doesn't register enough to get a response.

But, when there is an intense emotional response to something, we counselors, (profilers and lawyers too, they call it a trigger,) pay attention to the stuff that registers high on the emotional response meter. Especially when people are proclaiming, "Why is this such a big deal?" If it's NOT a big deal, it really would barely register enough to even get any response.







I explained a couple paragraphs above my situation. I hope I manage to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or lying or abuse. That is not reflection on what anyone else has been through. I certainly don't mean it personally when I hope & say that. I'm still trying to figure out if I can even recognize a guy who actually won't cheat or hit. That is about ME, not anyone else.

If others have managed to find a marriage that doesn't involve cheating or hitting, more power to them!!! I want to know HOW they did it. Obviously, in the relationships I've been in, and many of the women I am acquainted with, we can't find or recognize these guys.

Okay. I'm sorry you can't recognize guys you can trust. You live in a very different reality than me. I'm somewhat surprised you think I'm having an extremely emotional reaction when I would say the reality is that I'm bored today so I'm participating in a conversation where I disagree with what others seem to think most marriages involve. I do think people are putting a very negative spin on what marriage is and my reality is simply different. In my world, expecting fidelity in a marriage is the norm.

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why you think I'm the one who is in marriage trouble because I think fidelity is an important norm in marriage yet there are people who believe that who still might unfortunately find themselves in a relationship with cheating. I'm on the side that thinks fidelity is the norm while acknowledging the risks inherint in any relationship - as opposed to the side that thinks fidelity is optional and since they are choosing that option that will make them immune.

 

[FireDancer]

Huh, very interesting thread.

The only thing that really stood out is the assumption that anyone can really know with 100% certainty that their significant other has never or will never cheat on them. That is something you can have complete faith in but no one can be certain of what another person does no matter how much they know, love, or trust them.

I would think everyone who goes into a monogamous relationship lives in a no cheat zone, at least until all of a sudden they don't. Just sayin (and of course just my opinion). Now, if a person has a history of cheating or you are the person whom he/she cheated on their previous significant other with perhaps it comes as less of a shock.

This is true about many things. I imagine just about all abused spouses thought they entered a "no punching me in the face zone" and just about all spouses of child abusers thought they entered a "no repressing the kid's memories zone". Unfortunately a lot of people who appear to be good turn out to be scum.

This isn't directed at any poster in particular, just a general observation.

 

[Imzadi]

Okay. I'm sorry you can't recognize guys you can trust. You live in a very different reality than me. I'm somewhat surprised you think I'm having an extremely emotional reaction when I would say the reality is that I'm bored today so I'm participating in a conversation where I disagree with what others seem to think most marriages involve. I do think people are putting a very negative spin on what marriage is and my reality is simply different. In my world, expecting fidelity in a marriage is the norm.

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why you think I'm the one who is in marriage trouble because I think fidelity is an important norm in marriage yet there are people who believe that who still might unfortunately find themselves in a relationship with cheating. I'm on the side that thinks fidelity is the norm while acknowledging the risks inherint in any relationship - as opposed to the side that thinks fidelity is optional and since they are choosing that option that will make them immune.

Disykat, I was only going by what you said:

It's interesting, if somewhat horrifying that so many think fidelity is that unusual. I'm very thankful that I'm in a monogomous relationship - I just don't think it's that unusual.

You said horrifying. That's a pretty strong description of an emotional response. Of course, one can't make a total or even accurate assessment by a few sentences, especially on the web, without knowing the true level of accompanying emotions and where that feeling stems from. Emotional responses are always personal. We filter through thousands of bits of data coming at us, all the time. We don't have emotional responses over info or situations that we are neutral about. Many people read the OP and thought, "I know what this thread is about now." [Gathering info.] Then moved onto the next thread. [Neutral reaction.] Maybe it is horrifying to you because it is so out of the norm of your particular environment. Your second reaction (which I missed earlier,) was that you are grateful for what you have. Great!

I really do mean that I think that's great for you. You will go in my internal "file folder" of people who are in great marriages and supportive environments, that infidelity in NOT "normal" for or around them. That there are some places in this world that that happens.

The closest approximation I can come up with (which tells you how extreme I have to go,) is to think what it would be like to ask a group of Mormons or Amish about infidelity in their environment. They would probably be horrified too, to think that experience has been "normal" for some of us.

Like the OP, love, respect, honesty & integrity hasn't been my norm. (I can certainly describe to women what a loving relationship is NOT.) I actually have to search for examples outside my own sphere and hope and pray

I can find that kind of love and relationship, too. Where instead of having a guy run from me because of my past, my scars, and the baggage that comes with me, he will embrace me and say, "No, experience MY normal. It's not like anything you've been through."

Disykat, you & LuvOrlando give me great hope. Maybe someday I will be able to say: "I know several people who have great relationships. Because I knew it was possible for them, I kept hoping and dreaming, didn't close down my heart no matter how much abuse I hear and witness, and prayed it would come true for me, too. And it has!"

 

[Imzadi]

Now, if a person has a history of cheating or you are the person whom he/she cheated on their previous significant other with perhaps it comes as less of a shock.


Unfortunately a lot of people who appear to be good turn out to be scum.

Yes, unless the person has been honest about their past cheating, they usually aren't waving flags, letting you know.

If they cheat, they tend to lie too. So they'd lie about their past and pretend to be someone else. That's why it's hard for some of us to recognize them.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Imzadi YOU are the reason why I started this thread. You and I are the same, we both need other people's breadcrumbs to find our way, there are other's like us but too often we're easily shut down.

The stories are wonderful aren't they?

 

[zoomouse]

I am going to get strung up for this but,.... Yeah, my marriage was a "no cheating zone" too.

1. I never planned to cheat, but I did.
2. My wife said she'd never take me back if I cheated, but she did.
3. I swore I'd never cheat again, but I did.

I've been divorced for nearly a year now. I have 3 kids that I see 6 days a month. The grass isn't greener. My job now is to live with the choices I made, move forward with life and do my best to help raise my kids in the best way I can.

I am not trying to bring people down, but that is the reality that many of you (women) have to live with. There are lots of guys out there like me, hopefully my boys won't be two of them.

 

[skater]

I am going to get strung up for this but,.... Yeah, my marriage was a "no cheating zone" too.

1. I never planned to cheat, but I did.
2. My wife said she'd never take me back if I cheated, but she did.
3. I swore I'd never cheat again, but I did.

I've been divorced for nearly a year now. I have 3 kids that I see 6 days a month. The grass isn't greener. My job now is to live with the choices I made, move forward with life and do my best to help raise my kids in the best way I can.

I am not trying to bring people down, but that is the reality that many of you (women) have to live with. There are lots of guys out there like me, hopefully my boys won't be two of them.

I'm sorry for you and your family. This is a very sad story. I'm glad that I don't have to live with this "reality." I think I'll give my DH an extra hug tonight. I'll hope and pray for healing for all of you.

 

[disney1990]

I am going to get strung up for this but,.... Yeah, my marriage was a "no cheating zone" too.

1. I never planned to cheat, but I did.
2. My wife said she'd never take me back if I cheated, but she did.
3. I swore I'd never cheat again, but I did.

I've been divorced for nearly a year now. I have 3 kids that I see 6 days a month. The grass isn't greener. My job now is to live with the choices I made, move forward with life and do my best to help raise my kids in the best way I can.

I am not trying to bring people down, but that is the reality that many of you (women) have to live with. There are lots of guys out there like me, hopefully my boys won't be two of them.