Anybody know anything about real estate title law?

[chiefmickeymouse]

I agree about a lawyer. Whoever was executor of the estate, which I suspect is the uncle could also face legal action for failing to tell the heirs of their inheritance.

I don't know who that was, but it probably was the uncle.

 

[purpledisneyprncess]

I think my parents are worried that the uncle will die and all this will end up in probate, which could take years. I believe the name on the deed is still my great-grandfather, but my mom doesn't know for sure. They did find the property tax records, and the latest tax appraisal for the property.

That's a valid concern & a good one for your mom to bring up to the uncle. (or even you if you want to call your uncle on your mom's behalf) If he wants to give the house to his daughter, if he passes away then this will end up in probate b/c matters weren't resolved. He's gotta think about the bottom line, which is making sure everyone is to respect the will. He should be happy he got the other siblings to just sign over their shares to him. His greed is going to end up with his daughter possibly not getting her share for years to come if it ends up being held up in probate. So that's an angle I would try on him. Just reach out to him and discuss all of this. Let him know under NO circumstance is your mom signing over her rights to what she is owed. I'm sure this can all be resolved..well hopefully! Good luck.

 

[TLuvsD]

I'd get a lawyer. It is possible you can do some research on your own--try zillow.com for a general estimate of value, check with the court system if probate was opened in any of the prior deaths--that information may be available online. You can order a death certificate for the prior deaths, it might be worth it if you don't know the exact date of death (although a goggle search may turn up an obituary notice).
Once you have some idea of value, you can decide how to proceed. I sure wouldn't recommend signing over anything...your mom may not have paid the property taxes, but she also did not collect 1/4 of the fair market value of the rent (even if he didn't collect rent, doesn't mean your mom would have given away the property rent free).
I'd likely get the basic facts and then call a local lawyer, or a local law school. They may be able to provide some general advice at low or no cost.

 

[plummer925]

It does depend on the state, but most states have a legal clause about squatting and letting others (even without knowledge!) use property. Here in Maine it is 7 years. If someone uses a piece of property I own for 7 years and thinks it is theirs, it is then theirs. That is very simplistic, and there are laws around it all. I know this because we inherited some property that my father in law owned - he allowed a neighbor to use some for a garden - neighbor is elderly and has alzheimer's and is not living there now - current owners/renters think the garden is in THEIR property. We have only 7 years to make them aware it is ours or else it is legally theirs. Was told this by both the town and a realtor.

For our case we are having a survey done in the spring and will be clearly marking ALL property lines and neighbors will NOT be using any of our property for their own use.

Good luck. But, honestly, if it were me, unless very valuable, I'd just let it go.

We got a call from our attorney two weeks ago regarding signing off on a piece of property that still showed a lien from my father in law. It was SO much easier to let it go than to pay to have it looked into and fight it...

 

[crisi]

It does depend on the state, but most states have a legal clause about squatting and letting others (even without knowledge!) use property. Here in Maine it is 7 years. If someone uses a piece of property I own for 7 years and thinks it is theirs, it is then theirs. That is very simplistic, and there are laws around it all. I know this because we inherited some property that my father in law owned - he allowed a neighbor to use some for a garden - neighbor is elderly and has alzheimer's and is not living there now - current owners/renters think the garden is in THEIR property. We have only 7 years to make them aware it is ours or else it is legally theirs. Was told this by both the town and a realtor.

For our case we are having a survey done in the spring and will be clearly marking ALL property lines and neighbors will NOT be using any of our property for their own use.

Good luck. But, honestly, if it were me, unless very valuable, I'd just let it go.

We got a call from our attorney two weeks ago regarding signing off on a piece of property that still showed a lien from my father in law. It was SO much easier to let it go than to pay to have it looked into and fight it...

If they were the case, the uncle wouldn't be chasing them now for the quit claim. He needs their signature.

 

[plummer925]

If they were the case, the uncle wouldn't be chasing them now for the quit claim. He needs their signature.

He WOULD still need the signature - just because squatting laws would take into effect, there would still be a lien/deed on the property, making it impossible to sell without that being cleared. If your read my ENTIRE post you'd see we just ran into the exact same thing.

 

[sweetdana]

That's a good idea. We hadn't thought of checking for a lien on the property.

If uncle is broke and penny less and Leon's = > than market value. Of if market value is under 50k Sign n run. You will fight ( get frustrated 100 times over) and in the end walk away with nothing enough to fight over.

If this is not the only thing he owns
I'd take less issue if a lien existed, due to 1) in all likeliness lien was put on after 81 , and lenders didn't follow chain of title is so her assets/ equity (though could take time to get out is clear ) 2 if tax liens/ judgements, Put on after And he has any $$ aside from this equity, would be not taken from her assets. responsibly would fall on care taker, meaning if 10k was due in hoa/back taxes that 10K would come only from the other 3/4 th value. He may argue 1/4 is liable but issue is she also would be due 1/4 market rent value and it at the least would be a wash.



Unless there is a life estate for party owning and living in. She 100000% can force a sale ,

Real problem now. .....if her statue of limitations is not up. All that being said squatters rights would likely supersede any/all of her assets at this point.

The he knew she knew and didn't care, would be a to prove.

 

[manning]

There were four children. Two have passed away, my grandfather and a sister. The sister signed over her part before she died. That leaves one sister, who has Alzheimer's disease and signed her part over also, and the uncle. The uncle now has 75% and that leaves the 25% that was my grandfather's. I'm not sure how he got the sisters to sign their parts over as we have never been close, due to a falling out years ago between my grandfather and his brother.

Perhaps he owns 3/4. What you may want to find out is if the sister with Alzheimer's was declared incompetent prior to signing away her rights.

 

[manning]

He WOULD still need the signature - just because squatting laws would take into effect, there would still be a lien/deed on the property, making it impossible to sell without that being cleared. If your read my ENTIRE post you'd see we just ran into the exact same thing.

If that was the case, my position would be I would sign.....for a a price.

Also I would

Determine market value
Your cost to challenge legally
His cost to defend the challenge

If you can determine this then


Advise him you are prepared to take legal action and he can avoid this if he is willing to settle for X amount.

This may work if he stands to lose more fighting the challenge.

Who knows if it will work. The idea is to throw enough problems at him he may decide to take the easiest cheapest way out. The ball is in his court, he has a decision to make.

Do have a lawyer.

 

[tvguy]

If that was the case, my position would be I would sign.....for a a price.

Also I would

Determine market value
Your cost to challenge legally
His cost to defend the challenge

If you can determine this then


Advise him you are prepared to take legal action and he can avoid this if he is willing to settle for X amount.

This may work if he stands to lose more fighting the challenge.

Who knows if it will work. The idea is to throw enough problems at him he may decide to take the easiest cheapest way out. The ball is in his court, he has a decision to make.

Do have a lawyer.

I still think the starting point is who was the executor of the estate in the first place who did not handle this properly. If it is the uncle, then he is also in a position of civil liability for not doing his job.

 

[manning]

Granted. Just laying out some negotiating positions in case it comes to that. The idea is to get the other side in a position they don't want to be in. You're giving two choices. The hard way or the easier way.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

OP here. The assessed value on Zillow is about $200,000. The house is on ancestry.com because it's considered historical and the uncle is listed as the current owner. When I searched for him another house in the same town came up, also worth about $200,000. I think he's far from penniless, but haven't ordered a background check. I'm still pushing for my parents to hire a lawyer. I'm pretty sure his daughter has been living in the house ever since the sister became incapacitated, but I don't know how long that is.

My mom said she obtained a copy of her father's will, but not the grandfather's, so still doesn't know who was executor. I was also wrong about the uncle's age. I thought he was older than my grandfather, but he is younger. On the census, he is listed as ten years younger.

 

[Legendteri]

Then it is definitely worth it to hire an attorney.

Do whatever you have to do in order to talk your parents into it. If I was you, I would even go ahead and research an attorney, call them up and set up an consultation so all your parents have to do is show up or pick up the phone.

 

[manning]

OP. also look into the situation with the Alzheimer's aunt. If she was declared incompetent before signing away her right this gives the uncle more problems to deal with. You want to throw everything including the kitchen sink at him.

From this moment do not talk to him until you have talked to a lawyer and know what you will do. Then you make an offer with a short deadline to reply.

 

[sarah4770]

I still think the starting point is who was the executor of the estate in the first place who did not handle this properly. If it is the uncle, then he is also in a position of civil liability for not doing his job.

Agreed. It's not a matter of having the upper hand. It is a matter of doing what is legal and fair. in the case of adverse possession, and the statute of limitations in that particular state,I think you would need an attorney to advise, especially keeping in mind that adverse possession would also apply to the uncle who owns 3/4 of the estate.

 

[barkley]

another thing to advise your parents about is-if they sign over the property there may be an issue of them being taxed on it.

i'm not a tax person, but if that home is worth 200,000 and your mom's share is 25% that means signing it over might be considered a gift to her uncle of $50,000 which is significantly over the amount a person can gift w/o getting hit by the gift tax. it's another reason speaking to an attorney would be advisable.


on her grandfather's will-she might check the on line county records division for where he passed. depending on how many years ago it was, if it was probated then there might be an on-line record of it, if it was prior to when on-line records existed she could give a call and see if they can do a manual search. if it wasn't probated then an attorney may pursue her uncle for improperly administering the estate (even if not appointed to administer an estate, the person who does so takes on a fiduciary responsibility) it could be that uncle ends up paying for all of your parent's legal fees to clear this up.

 

[threecrazykids]

Anyone who has ownership in shared property can file for partition (which forces sale if a reasonable agreement can't be reached) as long as it's not joint ownership (50/50) with rights of survivorship.

Trust me...we are going through a HUGE nightmare right now on a tenants in common piece of property (cabin on shared land) and I know more about this than I EVER wanted to know...

Basically to clear the title they are either going to have to buy you out (on a price you agree to), be willing to sell the entire house and each owner get their shares (less the legal costs and distributions), or you sign over a quit claim deed of your shares.

The process of filing for partition is lengthy and can be expensive unless everyone agrees up front on everything. And do NOT let them scare you into believing that you will end up having to pay back taxes. They have to PROVE that they sent you notification of the tax bill due before they can hold you legally responsible for the back taxes. If it's any case like the one we are dealing with, the elderly family memebers all thought that by no one else paying for any upkeep, taxes, etc. that in essence voided their rights to the property. NOT SO in our situation. They thought that they would threaten with "we will charge you for back taxes, upkeep, insurance etc. and it would more than outweigh any distribution of the sale". No...they ended up having to prove that they had sent out requests annually with copies of the tax bill, broken down by share distribution for the amount owed etc...which didn't happen.

They are entitled (if records show) to 25% of the market value of the house, not the appraised value. I would request a market valuation to see what it really is worth and start there...but an attorney who knows real estate AND probate laws is essential. Finding one with BOTH is easier said than done.

 

[chris31997]

Get the lawyer.

Historical property with an aunt who has alzhimers

No idea who the exucitor is

No idea who Great GrandDad's Will is

Tell Uncle and his Lawyer you are getting your own lawyer.

Get one for your parents if need be.

 

[manning]

Get the lawyer.

Historical property with an aunt who has alzhimers

No idea who the exucitor is

No idea who Great GrandDad's Will is

Tell Uncle and his Lawyer you are getting your own lawyer.

Get one for your parents if need be.

Best not to tell uncle anything. This is one time it doesn't pay to advertise. If everything is what you think they are you want to hit him by surprise. Like war most battles are won by surprise. You don't want him to know what you are doing ahead of time.

 

[crisi]

And if your parents really don't want to pursue it - they can sell their interest to me for $5 and I will. $50k is a lot of upside.