Anybody know anything about real estate title law?

[chiefmickeymouse]

Sorry this is long.

My parents are elderly and have recently found out my mom is entitled to 1/4 of her father's family home in another state. Her father died 15 years ago and she never knew about the house. It came up because her uncle, (she has only met him twice, they aren't close and he's in his late 80's), wanted to deed the house to his daughter and when the title company did their research, they found that my grandfather was willed 1/4 of the house. He willed everything to my grandmother, who willed everything to her daughter.

The uncle first contacted my mom and asked her to sign over any right she or her heirs might have to the house. He said he was "just tying up loose ends" and never told her she was entitled to anything.

Next, a lawyer contacted my mom and told her that if she tried to make any claim on the property, she would have to pay her portion of the back taxes, upkeep, etc.

So, my parents did some research and learned that the uncle's daughter has been living in the house all these years since my great-grandfather died in 1981.

My parents told the lawyer they would take 1/4 of the assessed value of the property. The lawyer said he thought the uncle would just "sit on the property" if he had to pay out that kind of cash. That doesn't sound right to me, but I don't know much about real estate title law. I told them they need to hire a lawyer, but they are being really hesitant.

Anyone have any insight?

 

[Pumbaa_]

Sounds very shady! You will need a lawyer to disentangle this mess!

 

[mickeyboat]

They need a lawyer familiar with the law in their state - probably real estate law and probate law.

 

[marmalade]

There are somethings in life that people should just let go. The cousin has been living in the house since 1981 and the Uncle is trying to make sure she keeps her home after he dies (what I can only assume since he's in his 80's). Your mother had zero knowledge that a portion of this property even belonged to her father then her mother and finally to her.

I would leave it alone and sign over the rights to the family that has been living in the house for the past 32yrs. But that's just me.

But if they really want to fight it, they need to contact a lawyer.

 

[dholmes1950]

Your parents really need to hire a lawyer in the state where the house is located. Once the lawyer has explained all the options, they can proceed from there. An initial consultation shouldn't be that expensive.

 

[MinnieLovesMickey12]

She needs to hire an attorney and the attorney can request they buy your relative out of their fourth share of the house. But the attorney can tell you whether or not they can just sit on it and not buy her out. An attorney may charge a few hundred bucks to check into it and draft a letter for you. They may even do a free consultation. But be prepared to retain him that day if you like what he says and want him to work further for you. Some attorneys have a minimum retainer.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

There are somethings in life that people should just let go. The cousin has been living in the house since 1981 and the Uncle is trying to make sure she keeps her home after he dies (what I can only assume since he's in his 80's). Your mother had zero knowledge that a portion of this property even belonged to her father then her mother and finally to her.

I would leave it alone and sign over the rights to the family that has been living in the house for the past 32yrs. But that's just me.

But if they really want to fight it, they need to contact a lawyer.

The reason my family was estranged from the uncle is because he had tried to trick my grandfather out of some inheritance money when their father died. The uncle was aware that my mother was in the will for a portion of the property and didn't tell her when he contacted her. He made it sound like it was just "tying up loose ends". I think that is why my parents are pursuing this, they feel they are being tricked.

 

[purpledisneyprncess]

I think the first thing you should do is get a copy of the will that stated your mom is owed 1/4 of the home and property. It doesn't matter that a relative has been living in the home for so many years. What matters is the person who owned it had a will which stated who he wanted to give his house to. The fact that the will was never shown to your mom was very shady on the uncles part! Good thing for title research companies and written wills!

I would look into a probate lawyer who is familiar with this kind of stuff. Your mom will get her share or no one will ever be able to transfer the deed because the title isn't clear. That will serves as sort of a lien on the home. Until your mom gets her share nothing can be done on your uncles part. Good thing your mom did not sign away her rights. The uncle is so sneaky, wow!! He will have to take out a loan to pay you your mom her share or just sit on the property like he stated. Regardless he can sit all he wants but he will never be able to do anything with it.
After u get a copy of the will, speak to a lawyer. Or you can have the lawyer do all legwork. I myself would look into public records on that house and see if there are any tax liens or anything. I'm wondering if he can take loans out against the home. So what name is on the deed? Your moms grandfather ?

 

[crisi]

When talking to YOUR attorney - who you DO need to talk to, you need to talk about the things the other lawyer told you.

"he said if we pursue he'll hold us for 1/4 the taxes and upkeep. Can we counter with a fair value 1/4 rent payment during those years?" (I'm betting yes)

"he said that the uncle will just sit on it, can we force a sale" (I'm betting yes).

You might also want to get an appraisal, ask for two things - fair market value rent, without upkeep, and the value of the property. The real estate attorney you hire can probably help.

 

[crisi]

I think the first thing you should do is get a copy of the will that stated your mom is owed 1/4 of the home and property. It doesn't matter that a relative has been living in the home for so many years. What matters is the person who owned it had a will which stated who he wanted to give his house to. The fact that the will was never shown to your mom was very shady on the uncles part! Good thing for title research companies and written wills!

Given the additional information, I wonder if there are additional heirs. It doesn't make sense that grandpa would leave 1/4 of the property to mom and 3/4s to his brother who tried to cheat him out of his inheritance. I'm wondering if the original property was owned 50-50 by grandpa and brother and when grandpa died his share was left to mom and someone else who uncle's attorney is running, or did run, the same scam on.

 

[wiigirl]

Sounds very shady! You will need a lawyer to disentangle this mess!

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Given the additional information, I wonder if there are additional heirs. It doesn't make sense that grandpa would leave 1/4 of the property to mom and 3/4s to his brother who tried to cheat him out of his inheritance. I'm wondering if the original property was owned 50-50 by grandpa and brother and when grandpa died his share was left to mom and someone else who uncle's attorney is running, or did run, the same scam on.

There were four children. Two have passed away, my grandfather and a sister. The sister signed over her part before she died. That leaves one sister, who has Alzheimer's disease and signed her part over also, and the uncle. The uncle now has 75% and that leaves the 25% that was my grandfather's. I'm not sure how he got the sisters to sign their parts over as we have never been close, due to a falling out years ago between my grandfather and his brother.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

When talking to YOUR attorney - who you DO need to talk to, you need to talk about the things the other lawyer told you.

"he said if we pursue he'll hold us for 1/4 the taxes and upkeep. Can we counter with a fair value 1/4 rent payment during those years?" (I'm betting yes)

"he said that the uncle will just sit on it, can we force a sale" (I'm betting yes).

You might also want to get an appraisal, ask for two things - fair market value rent, without upkeep, and the value of the property. The real estate attorney you hire can probably help.

Thanks, yes, you are right: my parents need to get an attorney. They are worried it will be very expensive, but I am trying to convince them. I don't really have a dog in this fight, other than I don't want to see my parents get swindled.

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

I think the first thing you should do is get a copy of the will that stated your mom is owed 1/4 of the home and property. It doesn't matter that a relative has been living in the home for so many years. What matters is the person who owned it had a will which stated who he wanted to give his house to. The fact that the will was never shown to your mom was very shady on the uncles part! Good thing for title research companies and written wills!

I would look into a probate lawyer who is familiar with this kind of stuff. Your mom will get her share or no one will ever be able to transfer the deed because the title isn't clear. That will serves as sort of a lien on the home. Until your mom gets her share nothing can be done on your uncles part. Good thing your mom did not sign away her rights. The uncle is so sneaky, wow!! He will have to take out a loan to pay you your mom her share or just sit on the property like he stated. Regardless he can sit all he wants but he will never be able to do anything with it.
After u get a copy of the will, speak to a lawyer. Or you can have the lawyer do all legwork. I myself would look into public records on that house and see if there are any tax liens or anything. I'm wondering if he can take loans out against the home. So what name is on the deed? Your moms grandfather ?

I think my parents are worried that the uncle will die and all this will end up in probate, which could take years. I believe the name on the deed is still my great-grandfather, but my mom doesn't know for sure. They did find the property tax records, and the latest tax appraisal for the property.

 

[crisi]

There were four children. Two have passed away, my grandfather and a sister. The sister signed over her part before she died. That leaves one sister, who has Alzheimer's disease and signed her part over also, and the uncle. The uncle now has 75% and that leaves the 25% that was my grandfather's. I'm not sure how he got the sisters to sign their parts over as we have never been close, due to a falling out years ago between my grandfather and his brother.

That makes sense, thanks.

You can probably get an appraisal for a few hundred bucks, that will let you know if its worth pursuing with an attorney or not. If the property is worth $10k, and your parents are entitled to 1/4 of that, yeah, I'd just sign it over. But if its worth $100k and your parents are entitled to 1/4, then I'd spend $5k on a lawyer to get $20k out.

 

[donkeyandshrek]

Definitely seek advice of a lawyer. One that is knowledgeable of probate and real estate laws. Let the lawyer handle getting a copy of the Will etc. In some states, Wills are only filed if probated and your grandfather's will may not have been, therefore no public record of its existence.

You don't think you have a dog in the fight, but if your mom doesn't settle the problem, guess who "inherits" the problem from mom ? YOU!

No way would I just sign it over without seeking counsel!

 

[Mama Mouse]

Get a lawyer.

Can't stress that enough.

I'm in a similar, though slightly (very slightly) less shady situation now and having a lawyer has been invaluable.

 

[3boymthr]

Go for the lawyer. Get the appraisal. Because as PP mentioned the property might be worth $10,000 or it might be worth half a million. 1/4 of half a million would be worth pursing 1/4 of $10,000 not so much.

But also call the town where the property is located and see if there are any liens. It may be worth your while to sign it over if there are significant liens. One of my clients is a HOA and they just put a lien on a property and the lien is valued at over $110,000 and it's growing by $4,000 in fees every month (the original bill was only a few hundred but after awhile compounded interest is just NASTY)

 

[chiefmickeymouse]

Go for the lawyer. Get the appraisal. Because as PP mentioned the property might be worth $10,000 or it might be worth half a million. 1/4 of half a million would be worth pursing 1/4 of $10,000 not so much.

But also call the town where the property is located and see if there are any liens. It may be worth your while to sign it over if there are significant liens. One of my clients is a HOA and they just put a lien on a property and the lien is valued at over $110,000 and it's growing by $4,000 in fees every month (the original bill was only a few hundred but after awhile compounded interest is just NASTY)

That's a good idea. We hadn't thought of checking for a lien on the property.

 

[tvguy]

I agree about a lawyer. Whoever was executor of the estate, which I suspect is the uncle could also face legal action for failing to tell the heirs of their inheritance.