Any word on 2016 Marathon Course

[derekleigh]

As I recall, they had two starts at the same time. One group in the left lane and one group in the right. One group did the course I ran. The other group ran their portion of Epcot near the ball. The two groups merged coming out of Epcot.

Were the relay runners mixed in with the full runners or did they have separate starts?

That's the year I ran the marathon on the old course - 2012. Running into Epcot for the first few miles was a real *wow* moment for me.

I wish I had run this course! Hitting Epcot would have been sweet. I didn't mind WWoS, but it wasn't the worst part of the course for me.

On a different issue, I'm surprised they had the relay transition in such an oddball place. I know it had to be the halfway point but come one. The newer course would have them in the parking lot at AK. Give or take.

 

[Ariel484]

Were the relay runners mixed in with the full runners or did they have separate starts?

I wish I had run this course! Hitting Epcot would have been sweet. I didn't mind WWoS, but it wasn't the worst part of the course for me.

On a different issue, I'm surprised they had the relay transition in such an oddball place. I know it had to be the halfway point but come one. The newer course would have them in the parking lot at AK. Give or take.

The other big difference between the old and new courses is when you hit Animal Kingdom (mile 16/17 vs. mile 12/13 on the new course)...it's SO much time in between parks on the new course. I didn't like that very much.

As for the relay (this was the only year they had it - 2012, the course map I posted upthread)...everyone started together, and I totally forgot it was even happening until I saw signs for it - it didn't both me at all when the transition point came up.

Marathon runners continued to the right, running straight...relay runners turned to the left to switch with their partners. I forget where the re-merge point was, because I didn't even notice it.

 

[Neoflynn]

That's the year I ran the marathon on the old course - 2012. Running into Epcot for the first few miles was a real *wow* moment for me.

I WANT THIS COURSE !!!!

 

[Ariel484]

I WANT THIS COURSE !!!!

ME TOO!!!

 

[derekleigh]

The other big difference between the old and new courses is when you hit Animal Kingdom (mile 16/17 vs. mile 12/13 on the new course)...it's SO much time in between parks on the new course. I didn't like that very much.

As for the relay (this was the only year they had it - 2012, the course map I posted upthread)...everyone started together, and I totally forgot it was even happening until I saw signs for it - it didn't both me at all when the transition point came up.

Marathon runners continued to the right, running straight...relay runners turned to the left to switch with their partners. I forget where the re-merge point was, because I didn't even notice it.

Wow, that is some cool info! Thanks. I do remember 2012 being the only year the relay was run as 2012 was the first time I did the half at Marathon weekend.

I do wish the relay would return. I know it would definitely help replace some of the marathon spots. I mean the marathon is currently 80% full. I bet if rD replaced a most of the spots left in the marathon for the relay, all races would sell out in short order. The full has been the last race to fill up in the last few years and last year I don't think it ever filled (rD just stopped taking registrations).

The current marathon course sets up a transition point at AK parking lot and off you go!

 

[SarahDisney]

I'm sure it presents some logistical difficulties, but I would love if they created an option to do marathon as a relay. Marathon is not a goal for me (I'm slow and I don't think I could handle 6 hours of running), but I think I'd do it as part of a relay. And I definitely think it would help them sell spots.
Plus, you get return relay runners year to year ... because if I do the first half one year, I'm gonna want to do the second half the next year to see what I missed!

 

[Ariel484]

I think the relays (Wine & Dine and marathon) were logistical nightmares for them. Transporting the other runners to the switch-off spot (and those runners waited there for hours) was a pain, I'm sure. It would be nice to have different distances offered though.

 

[derekleigh]

I agree with you both about logistics being the biggest pain for rD. If people that stayed off site or are local, one would think to drive the runner #1 off at Epcot to start like an other race and then park at AK, thus when runner #2 starts the vehicle is left for runner #1. Runners staying on site can use the buses to get to the places they need. But the traffic flow would be heavier around Epcot.

I've had almost no interest in relay races, biggest issue is you have to rely on other people. However, since my wife started training for a few HMs, I would love to do a relay with her. Disney would be a cool one to do.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Outside of the transportion logistics, I think the popularity of the Challenges has made allocating Sunday running numbers to anything other than Dopey, Goofy, and Marathon runners a bit of a fool's errand. That and the limited appeal of a relay (I have to imagine demand was not high), particularly when there is a race of the same distance (half marathon) on Saturday. I think demand would be higher if it was a one day event and people had the option of running the marathon or half marathon, but not both. If you were planning on running with someone but not necessarily side by side it might be fun to do a half marathon as one part of a team rather than just running for individual time.

 

[derekleigh]

Outside of the transportion logistics, I think the popularity of the Challenges has made allocating Sunday running numbers to anything other than Dopey, Goofy, and Marathon runners a bit of a fool's errand. That and the limited appeal of a relay (I have to imagine demand was not high), particularly when there is a race of the same distance (half marathon) on Saturday. I think demand would be higher if it was a one day event and people had the option of running the marathon or half marathon, but not both. If you were planning on running with someone but not necessarily side by side it might be fun to do a half marathon as one part of a team rather than just running for individual time.

I agree, I don't think the demand for a relay would be as great when compared to Goofy or Dopey. However, I feel a relay would help sell the remaining spots for the marathon.
Pointers:

- The marathon is usually the last race to sell out, sometimes not even reaching capacity.
- If rD took the remaining 20% of marathon spot and converted them over to relay spots, they'd have 6,000 runners
- The relay is a half marathon for each runner, another way to include people looking to do a half
- A higher capacity for the Sunday, Packet pick-up, etc is not required, as rD would just simply have 6,000 relay runners and 6,000 less marathon runners.
- Current marathon course puts the transition point at AK, where transportation would be easier (probably still a nightmare though)

Short of the long, IF planned well, rD could nicely add this in while generating extra revenue without incurring too many more costs.

On a side note, if anyone has ever run a relay (at Disney or elsewhere) what happens if runner #1 doesn't make it or only one runner of the two can run? Do that runner run a one-person marathon-relay?

 

[DOOM1001]

I did the Sarasota half marathon which offers a relay option and of about 4,000 runners there were only about 280 doing the relay,I think Disney removed the relay simply because its wasn't very popular.I mean a relay for the Sarasota half means that runners doing the second half of the relay are only waiting 60-90 minutes or so for the first runner who only has to go 6.55 and you don't have to get up nearly as early as for a Disney race.At Disney if you're the second runner from the time you get up at 2-3am to the time you start running the second leg of the marathon its gotta feel like an eternity.

 

[wdwjoe13]

I thought that the old course was vastly superior and mentally easier. Reasons why:
-The route through Epcot in the morning was maybe the best part of the race. Even when it was just the run throughthe parking gates and main gates into future world, you still ran through part of WS and saw the flames lit and music playing. Then going backstage under test track was maybe my favorite part
-It didn't really feel like you were rerunning the same portion at the start and at mile 4. You got to see the spectators again, which was great, but it felt different because of the way the route was laid out.
-If you are doing Dopey or Goofy, the first 7 miles of Saturday and Sunday are identical. That gets a little monotonous for me
-I don't like that both castle pictures are in the dark. I like when it was brighter during the full in the past
-The highlight for most is running through MK. Then you exit off of that huge high. In the past, you knew you were half done after leaving the MK hotels. Now it is only 8 miles in. Mentally that is tough. I think this is a very underrated benefit of the old course.
-I didn't mind the race track, but hated the steep grade going in. I never was on the track when the sun was up, but I imagine it would be quite warm on that asphalt.
-On the old course, once you exited AK, you were 18 miles in. Now you are only halfway done.
-Then you head for the dreaded out and back on Osceola. This is tough on the old course, but I think even tougher on the new course, because you still have that out and back plus several miles of similar scenery heading into WWOS.
-I did like running around the track at WWOS. The change of footing was a nice break.
-When you head back into Epcot, I love the difference between seeing it in the dark a few hours earlier and now in the bright sun towards the end. Presents a great dichotomy for the same place.

So, I hope they give us that Epcot loop back in the morning. Fingers crossed!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Relays tend to be more popular where shorter distances are not an option and most marathon relay teams have 4 or more members (few only have 2). The idea - run less than 26.2 miles, and usually to run less than 13.1. Disney has learned that most people really don't wan to run 26.2, hence the huge variety of shorter races. They are already cashing in on these runners in the shorter races.

I know a few people who have tried relays and none liked it. Running is an individual sport, not a team sport. You do the training yourself and you run by yourself. Those looking to really run "with someone" cannot do that in a relay. Frankly, outside of really competitive arenas, I am not sure why anyone would ever run a relay.

 

[Barca33Runner]

I thought that the old course was vastly superior and mentally easier. Reasons why:
-The route through Epcot in the morning was maybe the best part of the race. Even when it was just the run throughthe parking gates and main gates into future world, you still ran through part of WS and saw the flames lit and music playing. Then going backstage under test track was maybe my favorite part
-It didn't really feel like you were rerunning the same portion at the start and at mile 4. You got to see the spectators again, which was great, but it felt different because of the way the route was laid out.
-If you are doing Dopey or Goofy, the first 7 miles of Saturday and Sunday are identical. That gets a little monotonous for me
-I don't like that both castle pictures are in the dark. I like when it was brighter during the full in the past
-The highlight for most is running through MK. Then you exit off of that huge high. In the past, you knew you were half done after leaving the MK hotels. Now it is only 8 miles in. Mentally that is tough. I think this is a very underrated benefit of the old course.
-I didn't mind the race track, but hated the steep grade going in. I never was on the track when the sun was up, but I imagine it would be quite warm on that asphalt.
-On the old course, once you exited AK, you were 18 miles in. Now you are only halfway done.
-Then you head for the dreaded out and back on Osceola. This is tough on the old course, but I think even tougher on the new course, because you still have that out and back plus several miles of similar scenery heading into WWOS.
-I did like running around the track at WWOS. The change of footing was a nice break.
-When you head back into Epcot, I love the difference between seeing it in the dark a few hours earlier and now in the bright sun towards the end. Presents a great dichotomy for the same place.

So, I hope they give us that Epcot loop back in the morning. Fingers crossed!

Nice point by point. I have only run the marathon the past three years, so I've never run the "old course." I am really hoping rD goes out of their way to make the marathon the best course possible and is as inclusive of all the attractions possible. A few quick points, not really counterpoints.

-I love the 5K and 10K (have run them as part of the Dopey Challenge) for precisely the reasons you have stated as pros for the old course. Epcot is awesome in the morning with all of the Torches lit and is just a great early morning setting for a run.
-The Half was the first race I ever ran and it has a special place in my heart for that reason; but it is far and away the worst course. I believe you get more valuable park time and character opportunities in the 10K and even the 5K. The distance is great and certainly feels like a great accomplishment, but if a Disney race experience is what someone is primarily looking for, regardless of distance, it is the last race I would recommend.
-For that reason, it does feel like folly for the first half of the marathon to be basically exactly the same thing (I know the first 7 is literally identical, but the race track and different highway are not exactly distinguishing features either)with a "finish" in AK instead of Epcot. I understand back loading the marathon course to make the later miles a little easier, but the course is really lean for that first half.
-I like hitting MK early with the castle still lit up. As a Dopey runner, I would like hitting MK at different times of the day but with so many people running one race or the other I can understand not switching it up. I also understand there are pretty compelling capitalist reasons for wanting MK to be cleared of all runners as early as possible.
-I feel like there has to be some way to liven up WWOS. I don't dislike it, but it feels a bit underutilized from a runner entertainment standpoint.
-I really hope they don't change the finish. From the moment you hit the back lot of HS all the way to the finish line is really a great stretch.

 

[SarahDisney]

Relays tend to be more popular where shorter distances are not an option and most marathon relay teams have 4 or more members (few only have 2). The idea - run less than 26.2 miles, and usually to run less than 13.1. Disney has learned that most people really don't wan to run 26.2, hence the huge variety of shorter races. They are already cashing in on these runners in the shorter races.

I know a few people who have tried relays and none liked it. Running is an individual sport, not a team sport. You do the training yourself and you run by yourself. Those looking to really run "with someone" cannot do that in a relay. Frankly, outside of really competitive arenas, I am not sure why anyone would ever run a relay.

I get this, but, for me, it's the opportunity to run through Animal Kingdom, which you don't get on any other race. I will never do the marathon, and it makes me sad that I'll never get to run through AK. I'd love to run parts of the marathon course. I think in general being part of a relay, especially at a destination race, is a way to experience a part of a course that you wouldn't be able to run the full course. Like you said, most people really don't want to run 26.2 ... but I'm sure some of those people may enjoy running the parts of the marathon course that aren't really used in any other race.
But I also understand that most people looking to run 13.1 miles will just do the half marathon. What I'd really love for them to do is create a half marathon weekend that goes through Animal Kingdom ... with Expedition Everest Challenge being permanently gone, I think there should be an opportunity for people who can't run the marathon to run through AK.

I could see there being some interest in a relay, but not enough demand to give runDisney a reason to create a relay.

 

[derekleigh]

Relays tend to be more popular where shorter distances are not an option and most marathon relay teams have 4 or more members (few only have 2). The idea - run less than 26.2 miles, and usually to run less than 13.1. Disney has learned that most people really don't wan to run 26.2, hence the huge variety of shorter races. They are already cashing in on these runners in the shorter races.

I know a few people who have tried relays and none liked it. Running is an individual sport, not a team sport. You do the training yourself and you run by yourself. Those looking to really run "with someone" cannot do that in a relay. Frankly, outside of really competitive arenas, I am not sure why anyone would ever run a relay.

It might be a geographical thing, but I very rarely seeing anything less than a Half offered for as a relay option. Most are Fulls and longer distances. I've never done a relay so I cannot say I hate, love, or like them but I do have an interest is doing at least one for the experience.

As SarahDisney pointed out, a relay could give a runner (whom has no desire to run the full) a chance to run the back half of the marathon for a different experience. The first half would closely match Saturday's Half, but this might be a good leg for a rD newbie, while a rD veteran could do the back half. And if the course was set up in a certain way, runner #1 could experience Epcot, MK, & AK, while runner #2 could experience WWoS, DHS, & Epcot.

From a revenue POV, Disney would rake in more cash because their fixed costs stay the same whether there are 20,000 runners or 30,000 runners. I had only made a point of adding in the relay as a means to help fill the open spots left in the marathon. While the fixed costs would go up slightly (adding staff, potties, transition point, etc) the variable costs (i.e. shirts, medals, etc) would probably stay the same per runner.

Disney couldn't do a relay with any of the other 3 races as they sell out well as they stand. Adding a day for the relay alone doesn't make sense since it would basically be two days of marathon set-up with Dopey and/or Goofy runners wanting to add another medal to their weekend.

I do realize all this talk of wanting a marathon relay is wishful thinking and I truly feel it will never return.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It might be a geographical thing, but I very rarely seeing anything less than a Half offered for as a relay option. Most are Fulls and longer distances. I've never done a relay so I cannot say I hate, love, or like them but I do have an interest is doing at least one for the experience.

I think that you misunderstand my post. Of course they don't chop up smaller races - they chop up the bigger ones because most people really don't want too run 26.2 miles (or even 13.1). They both take a whole lot of work in preparation and are painful.

 

[derekleigh]

I think that you misunderstand my post. Of course they don't chop up smaller races - they chop up the bigger ones because most people really don't want too run 26.2 miles (or even 13.1). They both take a whole lot of work in preparation and are painful.

Ah no problem. I have seen a 10K relay (not rear me) and I thought "Really?!" I know of maybe 2 Half Marathon Relays near me. Most of the races near me, its a marathon distance or greater.

I know a full is a lot of training, but from the reports I've been reading the Half is the fast growing race distance. Thus I would expect a slight jump in Marathon relay participation. My biggest problem is actually finding a partner.

Guess time will tell.

 

[DOOM1001]

I'm running the Excalibur 10 miler in March since they changed from giving runners crowns to medals in 2016 and they have added a new "Game of Stones challenge",from 2016-2019,you run 3 of the 4 years you get a King Arthur crown on the third year and if you run all 4 years you get a Game of Stones chalice in 2019.The race is run by the same people from the Space Coast marathon which is pretty popular so I decided to sign up.This race is only 10 miles but they are offering a relay option,I'm not big on relays as I like to get my money's worth and I mostly sign up for half marathons with one or two fulls but a ten miler is still a pretty good distance,I have to figure that race especially with the relay option will sell out with their new Game of Stones gimmick.What's amazing is that I counted all the miles of all my races between September and March in 2014-2015 and what I'm going to run in 2015-2016 and its exactly the same 134.1 miles,since I ran ToT in 2014,that Excalibur race also being 10 miles they counter each other and amazingly every other race even though I'm doing mostly new races to me came out to the same as last running season.

 

[John VN]

As long as we still go past McDonald's and I can stop for my M&M McFlurry, I'm good to go with any course!

McFlurry John