Any Unschoolers here who ditched that method?

[hambirg]

Well, he got into college and graduated. He is successful, end of story.

I'm not even touching the other topic. It is another irrelevant opinion on his actual education that allowed him to be accepted into a competitive university.

Ever hear of Dexter Manley?

 

[badblackpug]

I'm going to skip a lot of the off topic stuff. I actually don't even know who Tim Tebow is.... anyway... I think a 9 year old that can't read, barring any developmental delays or neurological disorders, is a disgrace. I don't know whether the OP's friend is misguided, or lazy, or weak, but there really is no excuse for this.

I really don't care how you choose to educate your child... public, charter, private, homeschool, unschool, whatever, as long as they learn the basic skills required to make them productive members of society. At a bare minimum that is basic reading and math. There is no job available that you can do if you can't, at the very least, read.

I think examples like that given by the OP are the reasons that states do need to have some regulation on homeschool. To assure, that no matter what method of instruction you are giving your child, they are at least proficient in the basics and are capable of supporting themselves.

 

[DebIreland]

I have to say that I thought about this thread today and chuckled as I watched my 10 year old help my 5 year old build a double helix DNA strand out of Legos

But that's silly. Lego men don't have DNA. Get your kid on a school bus fast.

 

[declansdad]

I'm not saying it does, but I can see the advantages. I have a middle schooler who is obsessed with soccer and some weeks practices all afternoon. He can do this because he is sometimes finished school by lunchtime or shortly thereafter. I don't tell him to practice - he wants to. Now, this is not why we homeschool, and I sincerely doubt (based on statistics) that he will have an "athletic career" or even get a scholarship, but he is a better athlete because he has the time. And of course, this is another advantage of homeschooling. I love how much time my kids have had to explore their own interests .

I can see where there could be some advantages in your situtation but your son would only be able to work on individual skills not team skills. Unless there is some homeschool league he plays in.

For an athlete involved in an individual sport, you could make an argument that homeschooling would give them more time to develop their athletic skills. I think you would be hard pressed to make that some argument for team sports.

 

[declansdad]

As an aside to the current (slightly absurd) argument about Tim Tebow and his academic success or lack thereof...I have to say that I thought about this thread today and chuckled as I watched my 10 year old help my 5 year old build a double helix DNA strand out of Legos while participating in an online homeschool lego club via webcam.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that either of my kids would've learned more in public school today than they did on the floor of my sunroom with a laptop and a pile of legos.

I'm in a different country so public school is a bit different but my DS has had many opportunities to participate in activities just like that in school. They have also completed projects with students throughout the world with the aid of technology.

 

[Jessica14]

I have not read this whole thread, but I have been very intererested in this topic of public/private school vs. homeschool (with curriculum), unschooling (without curriculum but conventional parenting), and radical homeschooling(no curriculum, unlimited food, tv, gaming, and choices in personal hygiene to the point of body odor).

I was a public school teacher and sub for many years. At the time, I was against homeschooling for many reasons,one of which was that I had seen it done very badly by several parents. Well, I did research and this year we are homeschooling for strictly academic reasons. I'm not happy how our district is run, but we love our teachers and the kids at school.

I have also read a lot about the unschooling and radical homeschooling movement. In fact I asked on a mainstream homeschooling website what it was about mostly because it seemed so "off" to me. I also read Yahoo groups about it. Read only because if you don't ask precisely the right question, one of the "gurus" will tear you apart.

From what I have read, there are parents who absolutely will tell their kids that they will not show them (teach is a dirty word) how to read because only they can figure that out for themselves; that they are not developmentally ready to do so, even if they are 12 or 13. Having taught for so many years, I believe in developmentally appropriateness, but IMHO, this is just incorrect. I think the success they report their children to have is skewed to show how their method is successful in general. More than one person defends unlimited gaming as an academic attribute because it helps them learn all kinds of skills. I don't know how that would look on a resume though. One of the gurus printed a letter from her grown daughters employer-a woman she babysat for during the summer- as proof as to what a great employee she is and how great she is with children. However, where is this near 20 year old going to take this experience (she doesn't have any desire to go to college)? One of her sons is overweight, I guess from giving his body what it needs food wise, and the other has used his gaming skills he aquired to be a clerk at a gaming/comic book store. One of her sons does have a decent job. They take community college classes when they find something interesting, but so far are not working towards anything more. She is very proud of the fact that they do not know math, but are not in the worst remedial math classes like the public school kids are. I personally don't measure this as more successful than all the traditionally educated children. I see it more of a justification of the method.

I mostly have huge issues with the child's "needs" for candy, toys, not bathing, brushing teeth, etc and that a parent should fulfill these needs (in actuality, they are wants, not needs). This group despises Jamie Oliver because he is denying kids anything they want (Hello? Childhood obesity anyone?) Candy anytime because a child's body will tell it what it needs and it will eventually self regulate. And as a PP mentioned, the 2 year old with a crusty, smelly head because the mother doesn't want to "ruin the trust" she built with him and scar him. I have huge problems with that. One of the quotes was that "I rather have a mouth full of dentures" than have been forced to brush and have ta terrible relationship with my parents.

I really believe that people should raise their children the way they want, but I really feel like some of this is neglect and I don't know why no one steps in to at least help these children not have a mouth full of rotting teath or body ordor (by the way,according to many of them, oral hygenine is irrelevent because its genetics that make the difference, not brushing).

I will say, that I do learn from this group and I have taken some basic ideas and used them at home. I am more leinent on computer time, though there are still limits. I have let go of expecting my DD to eat certain foods and given her more free range on picking what she wants for some meals and snacks (I don't keep junk in the house so it might be a piece of turkey and an apple vs a whole sandwich). It has made a huge difference for her and for us as there are no more battles and she is now eating more heatlhfully. I give my DS opportunity to use his gear set and when he went to a grist mill yesterday, he totally got how the wheel and axel worked. He's not quite 7.

Overall, this philosophy does not make sese to me and while I don't believe that these kids will necessarily be a drain on the system, I don't know how far they can go unless they are very self-motivated. By the way, I also read somewhere or a whole bunch of people who quit this method because it was so unsuccessful in their home and others who meet a lot of parents and kids who are just plain rude and disrestpectful because they can do and say whatever they want.

Sorry this is so long. I kind of feel passionately about kids and their well being and this philosophy just doesn't jive with me. Jessica

 

[castleview]

But that's silly. Lego men don't have DNA. Get your kid on a school bus fast.

My kids haven't built a DNA strand or the structural formula of Octane yet. But just playing with Legos will help them when they get to that. BTW, one of my kids was forced by me to write a small essay explaining why her behavior was unacceptable. She did it in a Venn Diagram. I AM SUCH AN AMAZING PARENT!

 

[castleview]

Please tell me how homeschooling helps with a person's athletic career?

They can focus on sports without that academic stuff getting in the way. Hello?

 

[skater]

I can see where there could be some advantages in your situtation but your son would only be able to work on individual skills not team skills. Unless there is some homeschool league he plays in.

For an athlete involved in an individual sport, you could make an argument that homeschooling would give them more time to develop their athletic skills. I think you would be hard pressed to make that some argument for team sports.

Actually, soccer involves an incredible amount of individual skills (probably more individual skills than team skills). He has worked on strength, power, endurance (running), shooting, foot skills, and juggling (he's become amazing - sorry for the brag ). He got into soccer somewhat late and advanced rapidly because of his drive. His team skills have evolved at team practices like everyone else. I absolutely maintain that having those few extra hours every day have caused him to advance more quickly than other kids his age (although without his ambition, the extra time wouldn't matter). He surprised everyone with his rapid advancement (sorry again).

Again, this is not why we homeschool, and I'm not even sure that his intense drive for this sport is healthy, but this is how it is for him.

 

[skater]

I'm actually kind of curious about that too. Here, homeschooling is a dead-end for athletics, which is one reason we've worked so hard at making public school work for DS. He liked homeschooling when he was younger but if he was still homeschooled football would end this year for him, and he's willing to work a little harder in a school setting that isn't quite a perfect fit rather than give up playing. There are no youth/rec/club programs in the area for kids that are of age to play school ball and it is pretty common to see athletic kids transition from homeschooling or private school into the public school at the 7th/8th grade level to be able to continue in their sport.

Yes, my son will most likely go to HS next year, just so he can play Fall soccer. His club team has a spring league, but soccer is a year round sport for him, so he will probably need to go to school in order to play. I do know of one young man who was homeschooled through HS and is now playing college soccer with a scholarship. Its not impossible to do this, but I believe its a lot harder and even more like playing the lottery.

My son is an extrovert who is excited about going to school, but at the same time, recognizes that there will be disadvantages for him there. He will miss the free time at the very least.

 

[jodifla]

I'm in a different country so public school is a bit different but my DS has had many opportunities to participate in activities just like that in school. They have also completed projects with students throughout the world with the aid of technology.

I'm in the U.S., and public school kids DO get those kinds of opportunities as well.

 

[castleview]

Yes, my son will most likely go to HS next year, just so he can play Fall soccer. His club team has a spring league, but soccer is a year round sport for him, so he will probably need to go to school in order to play. I do know of one young man who was homeschooled through HS and is now playing college soccer with a scholarship. Its not impossible to do this, but I believe its a lot harder and even more like playing the lottery.

My son is an extrovert who is excited about going to school, but at the same time, recognizes that there will be disadvantages for him there. He will miss the free time at the very least.

I don't know about that. A lot of public high school coaches have said that college coaches aren't talking to him as much as they are talking to the AAU/Premier coaches. That's kind of said imho (nothing to do with homeschooling, just that year round sports are taking center stage).

 

[knitster]

I'm in a different country so public school is a bit different but my DS has had many opportunities to participate in activities just like that in school. They have also completed projects with students throughout the world with the aid of technology.

I wasn't so much referring to the online lego club - though I do think that's an awesome experience that I didn't have the opportunity for in public school - I'm more referring to the fact that my 5 year old is exposed to concepts way beyond her grade level and she retains so much more of it than I would've thought possible. In addition to that, my 10 year old learns the patience required to work with a 5 year old and they both get to experience a close sibling bond. And before I get jumped on, I'm not saying that public schooled siblings can't have a close bond. I'm saying that in my personal experience - opposite sex siblings with a wide age gap are generally not close at all and homeschooling affords the opportunity for them to be much closer than they would be if they were at school all day.

All of those things are very important to me and may not be important to others, which is fine.

 

[DebIreland]

I'm in a different country so public school is a bit different but my DS has had many opportunities to participate in activities just like that in school. They have also completed projects with students throughout the world with the aid of technology.

I'm in the U.S., and public school kids DO get those kinds of opportunities as well.

I wish our schools here did similar stuff. I can't believe the resources at the schools' disposal these days such as online learning opportunities, online interaction with other students around the globe and the opportunity for children from different countries to teach each other skills and yet, here, schools do not take advantage of this technology at all. It's crazy.

Education (at least here and I believe we're not alone) is probably the only area that has not been radically affected by modern technology. Think of how modern technology has affected other areas in our lives such as healthcare (MRI scanners, cardiac monitors, microsurgery, joint replacements, to name but a tiny few examples), industry (production efficiency, import/export options), finance (online banking, credit cards, global currency exchange etc) and, yet, has it really affected education much at all? Not here it hasn't.

A child really could learn anything he/she wants by using a structured online learning system but still we stick to heavy textbooks, typed up print-outs, long hand-written homework assignments and subject choices that haven't changed much since I was at school. My boys' school don't even update their website.

 

[Momvic5]

Yes, my son will most likely go to HS next year, just so he can play Fall soccer. His club team has a spring league, but soccer is a year round sport for him, so he will probably need to go to school in order to play. I do know of one young man who was homeschooled through HS and is now playing college soccer with a scholarship. Its not impossible to do this, but I believe its a lot harder and even more like playing the lottery.

My son is an extrovert who is excited about going to school, but at the same time, recognizes that there will be disadvantages for him there. He will miss the free time at the very least.

My ds15 went back into our public school last year for sports. He wanted to play football, and our public high school was his only choice. He fell in love with it right away. He has done very well in school, and honestly, he is lazy and puts little effort into his work. (Though he thinks it is great, it is sometimes frustrating for me...I tend to want consequences for poor/lazy work - it makes me wonder what the teacher is receiving from other students.) You are right... free time is hard to come by now that he is in school. Speaking of soccer...just the other day my dh and I were discussing soccer and high school because our dd12 is a huge soccer player. Recently, I have noticed that a lot of our community's most talented young soccer players do not play for our high school. They choose to play with their competitive teams over the high school team. I do not know enough to state anything for fact, but I was told that a lot of colleges/universities go to competitive soccer tournaments to scout out players. This sounds fantastic if it is true. It gives homeschooled kids more options when it comes to sports and school.

I do not know anything about unschooling(I tend to be very structured and rigid by nature so even the idea of unschooling is foreign to me), but I do know a family who claims to unschool; however, they do not school at all. "Unschooling" is just her fancy go to word when defending her children's lack of education and their lifestyle. The harsh truth is - this family failed in the public school, and they are failing at unschooling/homeschooling too.

 

[skater]

My ds15 went back into our public school last year for sports. He wanted to play football, and our public high school was his only choice. He fell in love with it right away. He has done very well in school, and honestly, he is lazy and puts little effort into his work. (Though he thinks it is great, it is sometimes frustrating for me...I tend to want consequences for poor/lazy work - it makes me wonder what the teacher is receiving from other students.) You are right... free time is hard to come by now that he is in school. Speaking of soccer...just the other day my dh and I were discussing soccer and high school because our dd12 is a huge soccer player. Recently, I have noticed that a lot of our community's most talented young soccer players do not play for our high school. They choose to play with their competitive teams over the high school team. I do not know enough to state anything for fact, but I was told that a lot of colleges/universities go to competetive soccer tournaments to scout out players. This sounds fantastic if it is true. It gives homeschooled kids more options when it comes to sports and school.

I do not know anything about unschooling(I tend to be very structured and rigid by nature so even the idea of unschooling is foreign to me), but I do know a family who claims to unschool; however, they do not school at all. "Unschooling" is just her fancy go to word when defending her children's lack of education. The harsh truth is - this family failed in the public school, and they are failing at unschooling/homeschooling too.

Thanks for the info.! I agree that if he's lucky enough to be looked at by college coaches, it will be with his club team. He is just worried that if he can't play competitively in the Fall season (no clubs do that around here), he will lose his edge.

And your last comment is a real truth that I don't think has been addressed here (maybe once). Education is most successful when the parents are involved and have a little common sense. No matter what kind of education you choose.

 

[NY Disney fan]

I use to read a blog where a woman did this. It was several years ago and I don't think she even posts to it anymore, but it was ridiculous. She would have the kids sweep the floors and call it PE and then they would help her bake and call the measuring math.

Education like this isn't enough to be a doctor or CFO but quite honestly, I am surrounded by well-educated people who don't know how to hammer a nail or sweep a floor and unfortunately can't afford to hire people to do it for them. There is something to be said for learning basic skills in this day and age.

 

[Coconut36]

Education like this isn't enough to be a doctor or CFO but quite honestly, I am surrounded by well-educated people who don't know how to hammer a nail or sweep a floor and unfortunately can't afford to hire people to do it for them. There is something to be said for learning basic skills in this day and age.

But one doesn't have to "unschool" or even home school to teach those basic skills. That is the role parents have always played. Mine gave me chores so I knew how to sweep or vacuum or clean a bathroom. I helped with laundry so I knew how to do it on my own. I helped prepare (or when I was in my later teens I made the meal entirely) dinner and engaged in other cooking activities so I knew how to cook. I emptied the dishwasher, fed the animals..etc. It's a basic part of parenting to teach your children "life skills" like sweeping, laundry, cooking..etc and the type of education they receive (public/private school, home school, unschool) should play no role in a child developing those skills.

 

[npmommie]

I think a 9 year old that can't read, barring any developmental delays or neurological disorders, is a disgrace. I don't know whether the OP's friend is misguided, or lazy, or weak, but there really is no excuse for this.

.

I am very pro homeschooling, but I totally agree with this.

I have not read this whole thread, but I have been very intererested in this topic of public/private school vs. homeschool (with curriculum), unschooling (without curriculum but conventional parenting), and radical homeschooling(no curriculum, unlimited food, tv, gaming, and choices in personal hygiene to the point of body odor).

I was a public school teacher and sub for many years. At the time, I was against homeschooling for many reasons,one of which was that I had seen it done very badly by several parents. Well, I did research and this year we are homeschooling for strictly academic reasons. I'm not happy how our district is run, but we love our teachers and the kids at school.

I have also read a lot about the unschooling and radical homeschooling movement. In fact I asked on a mainstream homeschooling website what it was about mostly because it seemed so "off" to me. I also read Yahoo groups about it. Read only because if you don't ask precisely the right question, one of the "gurus" will tear you apart.

From what I have read, there are parents who absolutely will tell their kids that they will not show them (teach is a dirty word) how to read because only they can figure that out for themselves; that they are not developmentally ready to do so, even if they are 12 or 13. Having taught for so many years, I believe in developmentally appropriateness, but IMHO, this is just incorrect. I think the success they report their children to have is skewed to show how their method is successful in general. More than one person defends unlimited gaming as an academic attribute because it helps them learn all kinds of skills. I don't know how that would look on a resume though. One of the gurus printed a letter from her grown daughters employer-a woman she babysat for during the summer- as proof as to what a great employee she is and how great she is with children. However, where is this near 20 year old going to take this experience (she doesn't have any desire to go to college)? One of her sons is overweight, I guess from giving his body what it needs food wise, and the other has used his gaming skills he aquired to be a clerk at a gaming/comic book store. One of her sons does have a decent job. They take community college classes when they find something interesting, but so far are not working towards anything more. She is very proud of the fact that they do not know math, but are not in the worst remedial math classes like the public school kids are. I personally don't measure this as more successful than all the traditionally educated children. I see it more of a justification of the method.

I mostly have huge issues with the child's "needs" for candy, toys, not bathing, brushing teeth, etc and that a parent should fulfill these needs (in actuality, they are wants, not needs). This group despises Jamie Oliver because he is denying kids anything they want (Hello? Childhood obesity anyone?) Candy anytime because a child's body will tell it what it needs and it will eventually self regulate. And as a PP mentioned, the 2 year old with a crusty, smelly head because the mother doesn't want to "ruin the trust" she built with him and scar him. I have huge problems with that. One of the quotes was that "I rather have a mouth full of dentures" than have been forced to brush and have ta terrible relationship with my parents.

I really believe that people should raise their children the way they want, but I really feel like some of this is neglect and I don't know why no one steps in to at least help these children not have a mouth full of rotting teath or body ordor (by the way,according to many of them, oral hygenine is irrelevent because its genetics that make the difference, not brushing).

I will say, that I do learn from this group and I have taken some basic ideas and used them at home. I am more leinent on computer time, though there are still limits. I have let go of expecting my DD to eat certain foods and given her more free range on picking what she wants for some meals and snacks (I don't keep junk in the house so it might be a piece of turkey and an apple vs a whole sandwich). It has made a huge difference for her and for us as there are no more battles and she is now eating more heatlhfully. I give my DS opportunity to use his gear set and when he went to a grist mill yesterday, he totally got how the wheel and axel worked. He's not quite 7.

Overall, this philosophy does not make sese to me and while I don't believe that these kids will necessarily be a drain on the system, I don't know how far they can go unless they are very self-motivated. By the way, I also read somewhere or a whole bunch of people who quit this method because it was so unsuccessful in their home and others who meet a lot of parents and kids who are just plain rude and disrestpectful because they can do and say whatever they want.

Sorry this is so long. I kind of feel passionately about kids and their well being and this philosophy just doesn't jive with me. Jessica

Jessica, I think I know which Yahoo group you are referring to.
I am a member there, but I don't post because once awhile back I made the mistake of posting a comment such as

"if there is junk in the house my 3 yo will eat that and nothing else if i let him "

well they jumped on me, and one person even posted my comment on her blog
http://www.sandradodd.com/ifilet
Its about halfway down the page.

I was so annoyed I never posted there again.

anyway, my kids are not unschooled in the true sense of the word, I guess.
they have always been homeschooled in a child led way though.
they were reading by preschool age, and continue to be avid readers.
they are motivated though, and I do participate in facilitating learning for them.
Unschooling is not just sitting back and letting the chips fall where they may.
that does a great disservice to the kids.
they do need some guidance so they can get the learning experiences they need.
we do use curriculum for math, but do follow child led for other subjects, although I am thinking of changing that only because my dd is approaching middle school age, and I want to use an actual science curriculum for that.
I do believe in unschooling IF IF it is done correctly.
I don't want to hinder my kids future in any way.
If they want to go to college to be a Vetinarian, Nurse, Doctor, Lawyer, or teacher, I want them to have the skills to succeed.
and that is what drives me.
If they don't want to go to college right away, that is ok too. but I want them to have the skills to do what they want in life.

 

[MoonFaerie]

Unschooling is not just sitting back and letting the chips fall where they may.
that does a great disservice to the kids.
they do need some guidance so they can get the learning experiences they need.

I 100% agree. Unschooling was a TON of work for me.

Where some unschoolers fail, IMO, is that they forget that unless they teach their children how to seek out the information, the kids literally can't take responsibility for their own learning. Plus some kids, no matter how motivated, can't just pick up everything without some help. With younger kids, it's my responsibility to help them access the information and to help them understand it and teach them how to seek out the answers to any questions they have.